Creating society for unified action

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Creating society for unified action

Postby Waderby_Orchard » Wed Jul 14, 2021 3:49 pm

The most logical way of acting and organising oneself as an intelligent and creative being seems to be through creating connections and a network to exchange ideas, information, and resources as well as engage in mutually beneficial projects together.

My partner and I have therefore created Wäderby Orchard to facilitate both this society as well as begin by establishing an agricultural base which can be contributed to by further start-ups and business projects to expand our resources.
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Re: Creating society for unified action

Postby Waderby_Orchard » Wed Aug 25, 2021 6:44 pm

According to your political philosophy, would you have other people (particularly those on this forum) live in some way that was different than they do now? How and why?
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Re: Creating society for unified action

Postby WendyDarling » Wed Aug 25, 2021 7:45 pm

Waderby_Orchard wrote:The most logical way of acting and organising oneself as an intelligent and creative being seems to be through creating connections and a network to exchange ideas, information, and resources as well as engage in mutually beneficial projects together.

My partner and I have therefore created Wäderby Orchard to facilitate both this society as well as begin by establishing an agricultural base which can be contributed to by further start-ups and business projects to expand our resources.

Resources for what? Buying land?
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Re: Creating society for unified action

Postby Meno_ » Thu Aug 26, 2021 1:55 am

WendyDarling wrote:
Waderby_Orchard wrote:The most logical way of acting and organising oneself as an intelligent and creative being seems to be through creating connections and a network to exchange ideas, information, and resources as well as engage in mutually beneficial projects together.

My partner and I have therefore created Wäderby Orchard to facilitate both this society as well as begin by establishing an agricultural base which can be contributed to by further start-ups and business projects to expand our resources.

Resources for what? Buying land?



Return. To Walden or, the sixties revisited.
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Re: Creating society for unified action

Postby Waderby_Orchard » Thu Aug 26, 2021 5:46 am

WendyDarling wrote:
Waderby_Orchard wrote:The most logical way of acting and organising oneself as an intelligent and creative being seems to be through creating connections and a network to exchange ideas, information, and resources as well as engage in mutually beneficial projects together.

My partner and I have therefore created Wäderby Orchard to facilitate both this society as well as begin by establishing an agricultural base which can be contributed to by further start-ups and business projects to expand our resources.

Resources for what? Buying land?


One could exchange money as a resource to buy land or things such as tools, or whatever would be mutually necessary or beneficial to people who were allied. I personally wish to spread what are called forest gardens. That means that for me, I would see it as a benefit if others had forest gardens. It is not necessarily in my power to purchase everyone lands with houses and forest gardens outright, nor to give all the aid needed to cultivate one's land, harvest, store, or even give means for exchange. But I would like to band together with others to aid them in acquiring forest gardens.

Forest gardens are, of course, not the only thing I believe to be important. But with forest gardens one could have wood to build houses. If someone worked in a metal-working industry, I would see their needs as being different but not opposed or misaligned with my own, as gardening requires tools and metal-workers require homes and food. I hope this was an adequate introduction to what I mean.

Certain others may have even more farther removed needs and goals. Some might be able to be unified within the society, some might be opposed to the society. Our goal would be to find those who could unify their actions. I can give an example - I like to do art, and I could use my art to make posters. While those posters could be seen as mere propaganda (and there would be some truth to that) they would also be means of allowing people who did not know about us to learn of our existence for the first time... and so, though my interest is in forest gardening, I could expand potential allies to include artists, various tradesmen, engineers, and of course philosophers, as we would want to continue to work on and refine our system of collaborative action.
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Re: Creating society for unified action

Postby obsrvr524 » Thu Aug 26, 2021 6:09 am

Waderby_Orchard wrote:The most logical way of acting and organising oneself as an intelligent and creative being seems to be through creating connections and a network to exchange ideas, information, and resources as well as engage in mutually beneficial projects together.

  • How would this network be governed? - How would decisions concerning the participants be made?
  • How would resources be distributed?
  • How would it be defended - protected from aggression?
  • How would it be protected from corruption?
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    • blame each for the sins of the other
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    • -- but "you" have been observed --
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Re: Creating society for unified action

Postby Waderby_Orchard » Thu Aug 26, 2021 6:21 am

obsrvr524 wrote:
Waderby_Orchard wrote:The most logical way of acting and organising oneself as an intelligent and creative being seems to be through creating connections and a network to exchange ideas, information, and resources as well as engage in mutually beneficial projects together.

  • How would this network be governed? - How would decisions concerning the participants be made?
  • How would resources be distributed?
  • How would it be defended - protected from aggression?
  • How would it be protected from corruption?


The network would be governed on the basis of participatory and collaborative democracy. So you define your own contribution (more or less like a forum).

Right now, my thought is that the network would help facilitate trade among those with mutually compatible interests as well as joint/collaborative projects which are mutually beneficial.

I'm not really sure what defense you think we would need. This is a society which would exist immediately within current relations. If we were collaborating and you needed protection, I would ask what kind of protection you need. We would have to collaboratively protect ourselves.

It depends what you mean by corruption. Because (hypothetically) we are talking about you and I (as an example). What corruption would we engage relative to one another? You wouldn't have to redistribute your resources in any way. You could maintain them. You would choose when and if you wanted to exchange or collaborate with me. Among other things, our network could also facilitate its own growth in the case that you did not feel like you and I in particular had something to exchange or collaborate over, we might have a mutual interest in expanding our network so that we can have new friends and contacts to discuss and collaborate with.

Also, the reason I wish to discuss with philosophers (especially on a collaborative project) is so that the practices of the network could also be collaboratively built upon rather than dictated from above (I suppose in this project 'above' would be by me). Hope that helps!
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Re: Creating society for unified action

Postby obsrvr524 » Thu Aug 26, 2021 7:30 am

-
You haven't mentioned what country you are intending for this project? Different strategies work in different countries - and only last as long as that country's government allows. If you are in the US, things are changing very rapidly and any scheme you imagine might be hard to maintain.

I think how decisions are made is highly critical when it comes to ensuring the longevity of a group - constitutional, communistic, socialist, capitalistic, democratic - a combination - something else maybe?

I am about to get into a deep analysis of another society project that someone proposed on this board. It involves a constitution for small groups with networking for connectivity, expansion, security, and maximal liberty - yours reminded me of it.
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              You have been observed.
    Though often tempted to encourage a dog to distinguish color I refuse to argue with him about it
    It's just the same Satanism as always -
    • separate the bottom from the top,
    • the left from the right,
    • the light from the dark, and
    • blame each for the sins of the other
    • - until they beg you to take charge.
    • -- but "you" have been observed --
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Re: Creating society for unified action

Postby Waderby_Orchard » Thu Aug 26, 2021 7:36 am

obsrvr524 wrote:-
You haven't mentioned what country you are intending for this project? Different strategies work in different countries - and only last as long as that country's government allows. If you are in the US, things are changing very rapidly and any scheme you imagine might be hard to maintain.

I think how decisions are made is highly critical when it comes to ensuring the longevity of a group - constitutional, communistic, socialist, capitalistic - something else maybe?

I am about to get into a deep analysis of another society project that someone proposed on this board. It involves a constitution for small groups with networking for connectivity, expansion, security, and maximal liberty - yours reminded my of it.


In this interconnected world, my plan is to make this network extend internationally. I am currently in Sweden. If we had a member of a network who was in another country and could aid them in some way, I would not see a problem with that. If a government does not allow something which is perfectly reasonable then we could still contribute in many others ways to aid that person and not simple allow them to be swallowed by their fate.

I am not exactly sure which decisions you (or the group) are deciding to make. I feel that I am already ready to collaborate and exchange with others and those who feel likewise may find allegiance with me.

It is interesting that there is another group wishing to create a network. It does sound like they may have good ideas.
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Re: Creating society for unified action

Postby obsrvr524 » Thu Aug 26, 2021 7:49 am

-
For a group to maintain (be "anentropic") it must have a framework. In Sight of SAM, I Am - is a thread written by an analytical reductionist philosopher (very much into "why" concerning everything - including governance). He isn't on this board any more (an American). I study/analyze his writings. I have been intending to get around to his "Constitution of Rational Harmony" and "Angel Network" concepts to see how realistic they are. So far I have just made a cursory review. You might want to give it a quick read just to see what I mean by a "framework" and "decision-making".
Member of The Coalition of Truth - member #1

              You have been observed.
    Though often tempted to encourage a dog to distinguish color I refuse to argue with him about it
    It's just the same Satanism as always -
    • separate the bottom from the top,
    • the left from the right,
    • the light from the dark, and
    • blame each for the sins of the other
    • - until they beg you to take charge.
    • -- but "you" have been observed --
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Re: Creating society for unified action

Postby Waderby_Orchard » Thu Aug 26, 2021 8:14 am

obsrvr524 wrote:-
For a group to maintain (be "anentropic") it must have a framework. In Sight of SAM, I Am - is a thread written by an analytical reductionist philosopher (very much into "why" concerning everything - including governance). He isn't on this board any more (an American). I study/analyze his writings. I have been intending to get around to his "Constitution of Rational Harmony" and "Angel Network" concepts to see how realistic they are. So far I have just made a cursory review. You might want to give it a quick read just to see what I mean by a "framework" and "decision-making".


Sure, I'll look into the framework, but my own position is similar to an organicist position. Very briefly put, I believe that these things will grow up organically. An example would be English common law, which you write down and codify through praxis. I also have a number of group strategies. You can find them through this forum post. It is an external forum which in turn takes you to blog posts. I'm not sure if that is allowed. I will be willing to explain my positions on this website, but since there is a lot of work already done it is easiest to refer to these collective posts: https://waderbyorchard.freeforums.net/thread/6/intellectual-society
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Re: Creating society for unified action

Postby obsrvr524 » Thu Aug 26, 2021 8:18 am

-
You might also need this link - Constitution of Rational Harmony- I don't know why James didn't include that in his thread (and why he didn't make more threads on relevant topics). And it gets discussed in the latter part of this thread - New Forms of Government.
Member of The Coalition of Truth - member #1

              You have been observed.
    Though often tempted to encourage a dog to distinguish color I refuse to argue with him about it
    It's just the same Satanism as always -
    • separate the bottom from the top,
    • the left from the right,
    • the light from the dark, and
    • blame each for the sins of the other
    • - until they beg you to take charge.
    • -- but "you" have been observed --
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Re: Creating society for unified action

Postby obsrvr524 » Thu Aug 26, 2021 8:32 am

-
I took just a really short look into your link - obviously it takes a lot more to examine your thoughts. My first reaction is a concern for the architecture of the organization - "organicist" bothers me. What naturally grows without forethought - naturally gets destroyed without forethought. :D
Member of The Coalition of Truth - member #1

              You have been observed.
    Though often tempted to encourage a dog to distinguish color I refuse to argue with him about it
    It's just the same Satanism as always -
    • separate the bottom from the top,
    • the left from the right,
    • the light from the dark, and
    • blame each for the sins of the other
    • - until they beg you to take charge.
    • -- but "you" have been observed --
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Re: Creating society for unified action

Postby Waderby_Orchard » Thu Aug 26, 2021 8:48 am

obsrvr524 wrote:-
I took just a really short look into your link - obviously it takes a lot more to examine your thoughts. My first reaction is a concern for the architecture of the organization - "organicist" bothers me. What naturally grows without forethought - naturally gets destroyed without forethought. :D


From which source does the forethought arise? It seems like you want to make a criticism of how I've organized my notes. You can if you wish. Humans are organic creatures. Our forethought is based on instinctive needs as well as our ability to store information both through memory and artefactually and use that information to create and learn new forms.

That I have created a blog format as well as a forum, I do not think, shows a lack of organization.
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Re: Creating society for unified action

Postby Waderby_Orchard » Thu Aug 26, 2021 9:08 am

obsrvr524 wrote:-
You might also need this link - Constitution of Rational Harmony- I don't know why James didn't include that in his thread (and why he didn't make more threads on relevant topics). And it gets discussed in the latter part of this thread - New Forms of Government.


I do not think that this idea of a constitution aligns with my own. I imagine people who would want to associate with us would feel more religiously. They would feel like they could put down all that is dear to their survival and life and thriving, and such a document would speak about all the universe and with us they could seek and preserve what they cherish.

For us, that is our relation to nature and the universe. Our relation is both physical as well spiritual. I have written a little more in the recent What is Wäderby Orchard thread.
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Re: Creating society for unified action

Postby Sculptor » Thu Aug 26, 2021 10:35 am

Waderby_Orchard wrote:The most logical way of acting and organising oneself as an intelligent and creative being seems to be through creating connections and a network to exchange ideas, information, and resources as well as engage in mutually beneficial projects together.

My partner and I have therefore created Wäderby Orchard to facilitate both this society as well as begin by establishing an agricultural base which can be contributed to by further start-ups and business projects to expand our resources.


And, so, what exactly does Wäderby Orchard do?
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Re: Creating society for unified action

Postby Waderby_Orchard » Thu Aug 26, 2021 11:27 am

Sculptor wrote:
Waderby_Orchard wrote:The most logical way of acting and organising oneself as an intelligent and creative being seems to be through creating connections and a network to exchange ideas, information, and resources as well as engage in mutually beneficial projects together.

My partner and I have therefore created Wäderby Orchard to facilitate both this society as well as begin by establishing an agricultural base which can be contributed to by further start-ups and business projects to expand our resources.


And, so, what exactly does Wäderby Orchard do?


Wäderby Orchard is the project created by my girlfriend and I. Wäderby Orchard is our own workplace and projects and we will be offering services to physically plant forest gardens and teach the methods to maintain it locally. We will join our network with tradesmen of various kinds, but particularly those connected to construction and agriculture. We are also working on our own forest garden which will provide fruits, vegetables, spices, and other useful plants and wood as well as contributing to biological diversity and clean environmental practices. (I speak a little more about this aspect here: https://ilovephilosophy.com/viewtopic.php?f=3&t=197275

We would also like to spread the forest garden so that people have access to these own resources personally. We can do that through various ventures. One is through services and various outreach programs that would either be performed by us or any else in local movements. We make art and write philosophy both as a passion and also in contribution to help the advertising and marketing of our ventures.

Along with that, we are hosting the platform which we intend to keep forever free of charge where you can host your own content as well as find others to network with both locally and internationally.

We also want to create a new form of educational facility based on personal research, guidance, and practical application of skills. Ultimately, we would like to connect this education to our networks of forest gardens as well as trades, such as mining and production.

At this point, we both work with agriculture and desire to crowd-fund our project rather than going, for example, to a bank. To take a bank loan is to accept certain conditions of the marketplace. The reason we are speaking with philosophers in particular is because we wish to have direct communication with our associates, to collaboratively contribute towards our future in a mode of mutual harmony which is accountable to you personally. If we make ventures as an organisation, we could be fallible, but if we are engaging collaboratively and with participation together towards mutual goals then we may cease to be impersonal institutions towards one another but rather humans seeking our best way of life.
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Re: Creating society for unified action

Postby Maia » Fri Aug 27, 2021 11:20 am

This sounds very interesting, since I've often felt drawn to the idea of living outside in nature, in a forest, for example. I'm not quite sure what it is you're trying to set up though, as there appear to be a lot of different ideas involved. As I understand it, you don't currently have a tract of land, but are trying to raise funds, is that right? And you're based in Sweden?
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Re: Creating society for unified action

Postby Sculptor » Fri Aug 27, 2021 11:36 am

Waderby_Orchard wrote:
Sculptor wrote:
Waderby_Orchard wrote:The most logical way of acting and organising oneself as an intelligent and creative being seems to be through creating connections and a network to exchange ideas, information, and resources as well as engage in mutually beneficial projects together.

My partner and I have therefore created Wäderby Orchard to facilitate both this society as well as begin by establishing an agricultural base which can be contributed to by further start-ups and business projects to expand our resources.


And, so, what exactly does Wäderby Orchard do?


Wäderby Orchard is the project created by my girlfriend and I. Wäderby Orchard is our own workplace and projects and we will be offering services to physically plant forest gardens and teach the methods to maintain it locally. We will join our network with tradesmen of various kinds, but particularly those connected to construction and agriculture. We are also working on our own forest garden which will provide fruits, vegetables, spices, and other useful plants and wood as well as contributing to biological diversity and clean environmental practices. (I speak a little more about this aspect here: https://ilovephilosophy.com/viewtopic.php?f=3&t=197275

We would also like to spread the forest garden so that people have access to these own resources personally. We can do that through various ventures. One is through services and various outreach programs that would either be performed by us or any else in local movements. We make art and write philosophy both as a passion and also in contribution to help the advertising and marketing of our ventures.

Along with that, we are hosting the platform which we intend to keep forever free of charge where you can host your own content as well as find others to network with both locally and internationally.

We also want to create a new form of educational facility based on personal research, guidance, and practical application of skills. Ultimately, we would like to connect this education to our networks of forest gardens as well as trades, such as mining and production.

At this point, we both work with agriculture and desire to crowd-fund our project rather than going, for example, to a bank. To take a bank loan is to accept certain conditions of the marketplace. The reason we are speaking with philosophers in particular is because we wish to have direct communication with our associates, to collaboratively contribute towards our future in a mode of mutual harmony which is accountable to you personally. If we make ventures as an organisation, we could be fallible, but if we are engaging collaboratively and with participation together towards mutual goals then we may cease to be impersonal institutions towards one another but rather humans seeking our best way of life.


It is rare in the Uk by in my town we have a community orchard. It has been planted with plumbs, apples mostly since they are the best able to grow in the climate.
Originally was funded with a public grant but as to be maintained with volunteers. People are free to collect fruits as they choose.
Mostly its just a nice place to walk the dog and most of the fruit dropps from the trees to feed whatever insects and other animals are around. I made some excellent plumb jam this month.

Clearly. in most cases, the problem is money and other resources, as well as taking the time to convince people of the benefits.
How do you get the time and resources to continue?
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Re: Creating society for unified action

Postby Waderby_Orchard » Fri Aug 27, 2021 1:22 pm

Maia wrote:This sounds very interesting, since I've often felt drawn to the idea of living outside in nature, in a forest, for example. I'm not quite sure what it is you're trying to set up though, as there appear to be a lot of different ideas involved. As I understand it, you don't currently have a tract of land, but are trying to raise funds, is that right? And you're based in Sweden?


We currently have a small piece of personal land which we do grow crops on. We believe that the forest garden is worth spreading for a number of reasons. Many modern countries have a lack of forest due to deforestation for industry. More forests will also bring people closer to nature which has been shown medically to help with mental health. Because a forest garden incorporates a vast arrange of different 'perennials' (plants which re-grow seasonally, as opposed to annuals which must be replanted), then the forest will remain as a system. There will not be reploughed fields. Paths are planned into forest gardens so you walk between the shrubs. We believe that people would feel happier if their lifestyle was reintegrated into nature, particularly as opposed to apartments.

Our main goal is to help people spread the forest garden. Right now, we are doing that by spreading the idea as well as growing our own and helping others who have forest gardens locally. If we could, we would do all of our work free of charge. That is why we offer collaboration with others. Despite that, because nobody has endless time and resources, we also want to take other measures to gather money (this can be through selling out own produce locally here in Sweden, doing art to sell online) only for the purpose of spreading forest gardens.

There are reasons to spread the forest garden which do not rely on profit-gaining. Because natural environments are affected by their neighbouring ecosystems, if the nature is flourishing around then the growth will be greater within the garden. This has to do with a number of more technical factors like the amount of nitrogen in the soil, moisture contained in the air (which is contained for example in forests because the leaves shelter the sun's rays from drying the natural ground water).

We also have ambitions to begin with schools. Ideally, these would also be run with non-profit motives. One reason that we believe new forms of schooling is important is because we would like to teach others how to plant and maintain forest gardens, but also because we feel that there is a democratic deficit in conventional schooling. The current form used in schools has a teacher acting as an authority and students as passive recipients. We would also like to promote self-guided studies and research as well as the practical application of our knowledge as early as possible for children, with teachers acting as something akin to lifetime learners and guidance counsellors, who would understand different teaching styles and be able to direct children to different aspects of society where they could learn through direct observation, engagement, as well as research. This is a school system we are currently developing, and in some ways hold to be of second priority to the forest garden but with virtues itself.
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Re: Creating society for unified action

Postby Waderby_Orchard » Fri Aug 27, 2021 1:40 pm

Sculptor wrote:It is rare in the Uk by in my town we have a community orchard. It has been planted with plumbs, apples mostly since they are the best able to grow in the climate.
Originally was funded with a public grant but as to be maintained with volunteers. People are free to collect fruits as they choose.
Mostly its just a nice place to walk the dog and most of the fruit dropps from the trees to feed whatever insects and other animals are around. I made some excellent plumb jam this month.

Clearly. in most cases, the problem is money and other resources, as well as taking the time to convince people of the benefits.
How do you get the time and resources to continue?


It is nice to hear that your town has a community orchard. There is something similar being tried in a few towns in Sweden as a kind of experiment. There are benefits and drawbacks to a community orchard within a system of greater enclosure but I think it is a positive step. Does that orchard allow residents to plant new crops as well? I think there might be a lack of incentive for one to plant a lot when all that is planted is owned communally (that is the system here) but it might help newcomers find unused space more easily. But planting certain diversities of plants can contribute to the growth of the others within that ecosystem. That you have access to those trees and fruits also gives the opportunities to make cuttings which, if correctly done, can plant new trees from the source, or even plant from seeds, though that might need a green house and extra care unless it was done on a large scale.

I think that if spaces like this expanded it would have a positive influence, or even if these crops with more often planted in yards and gardens. We have also been inspired by 'victory gardening' which was done during the war.

We feel that the problem is money as well. Though money is only a representation of our labour and the products thereof. That is why we want to rally certain of the productive industries (mainly the trades, which would be useful in agricultural work as well as construction, maintenance and so on).

What feels unfortunate to us is that some people may be able to have the benefits much more readily than others, because of course with a lot of money things can be done quickly. We have had a positive feedback so far. We have considered that if the idea of the forest garden spreads long enough, it might not be necessary for us to physically spread them to you. As strange as it sounds, we can use nature to spread the forest garden, as that is how vegetation spreads through the environment already. Birds, deers and other animals will ultimately spread seeds of various plants, we are incorporating bee-keeping into our designs which will also help with polination.

Of course, forests are rather being torn down than planted and when they are planted it is generally just one tree which does not help with biodiversity and can even cause diseases in the plants themselves. The plans are just not sustainable. Despite my caring for the environment, I don't see political solutions as promoting healthy and liveable lifestyles.

We support ourselves with agricultural work, including the sale of our own produce here in Sweden as well as doing various kinds of artwork. Gardening and agriculture have been lifelong passions for us.
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Re: Creating society for unified action

Postby Sculptor » Fri Aug 27, 2021 2:49 pm

Waderby_Orchard wrote:
Sculptor wrote:It is rare in the Uk by in my town we have a community orchard. It has been planted with plumbs, apples mostly since they are the best able to grow in the climate.
Originally was funded with a public grant but as to be maintained with volunteers. People are free to collect fruits as they choose.
Mostly its just a nice place to walk the dog and most of the fruit dropps from the trees to feed whatever insects and other animals are around. I made some excellent plumb jam this month.

Clearly. in most cases, the problem is money and other resources, as well as taking the time to convince people of the benefits.
How do you get the time and resources to continue?


It is nice to hear that your town has a community orchard. There is something similar being tried in a few towns in Sweden as a kind of experiment. There are benefits and drawbacks to a community orchard within a system of greater enclosure but I think it is a positive step. Does that orchard allow residents to plant new crops as well? I think there might be a lack of incentive for one to plant a lot when all that is planted is owned communally (that is the system here) but it might help newcomers find unused space more easily. But planting certain diversities of plants can contribute to the growth of the others within that ecosystem. That you have access to those trees and fruits also gives the opportunities to make cuttings which, if correctly done, can plant new trees from the source, or even plant from seeds, though that might need a green house and extra care unless it was done on a large scale.

I think that if spaces like this expanded it would have a positive influence, or even if these crops with more often planted in yards and gardens. We have also been inspired by 'victory gardening' which was done during the war.

We feel that the problem is money as well. Though money is only a representation of our labour and the products thereof. That is why we want to rally certain of the productive industries (mainly the trades, which would be useful in agricultural work as well as construction, maintenance and so on).

What feels unfortunate to us is that some people may be able to have the benefits much more readily than others, because of course with a lot of money things can be done quickly. We have had a positive feedback so far. We have considered that if the idea of the forest garden spreads long enough, it might not be necessary for us to physically spread them to you. As strange as it sounds, we can use nature to spread the forest garden, as that is how vegetation spreads through the environment already. Birds, deers and other animals will ultimately spread seeds of various plants, we are incorporating bee-keeping into our designs which will also help with polination.

Of course, forests are rather being torn down than planted and when they are planted it is generally just one tree which does not help with biodiversity and can even cause diseases in the plants themselves. The plans are just not sustainable. Despite my caring for the environment, I don't see political solutions as promoting healthy and liveable lifestyles.

We support ourselves with agricultural work, including the sale of our own produce here in Sweden as well as doing various kinds of artwork. Gardening and agriculture have been lifelong passions for us.


The "tragedy of the commons" is all too immanent.
But whilst most people consider that fruit picking and jam making far more fuss than paying a quid at the local Lidl then only those that are really keen on quality (myslef) or really money poor and time rich will take on the benefits of a free resource.
I mae jam of such quality that cannot be bought. Time consuming though. But I have to say that most of the fruit goes uncollected.
The future would have to be to turn the world into a garden of diversity. Sadly whilst we are driven by the filthy cash monoculture with its cycle of rape and pillage are going to be the norm. I see no way out of this tragedy.
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Re: Creating society for unified action

Postby Waderby_Orchard » Fri Aug 27, 2021 3:05 pm

Sculptor wrote:The "tragedy of the commons" is all too immanent.
But whilst most people consider that fruit picking and jam making far more fuss than paying a quid at the local Lidl then only those that are really keen on quality (myslef) or really money poor and time rich will take on the benefits of a free resource.
I mae jam of such quality that cannot be bought. Time consuming though. But I have to say that most of the fruit goes uncollected.
The future would have to be to turn the world into a garden of diversity. Sadly whilst we are driven by the filthy cash monoculture with its cycle of rape and pillage are going to be the norm. I see no way out of this tragedy.


As part of our outreach, if we had access to unharvested fruits we could pluck and distribute them. Ultimately, they will return to the earth as compost and help the land they are on stay fertile, which is good as well. We have also not been good at composting collectively. Of course the packaging and transportation of food products impacts the environment (even formally).

I think that it is difficult when the resources are few and local can be distant for many people. We also want to introduce physical events here, though that would of course be local again. At them we would advocate things like potlock, do free teaching about gardening and growing, as well as harvest holidays. A closer relationship with nature brings back the sense of meaning that many people lack, when you see the fruits of the earth which one's own hand has cultivated feed one's loved one's, oneself, and the nature alive all around us, one feels again the beauty of existence that I think many lack when they live in cities so cut off from a world which is growing and alive from within.

Sometimes we are unsure how to express our political opinions. For example, we believe that one issue is that bank loans trap a lot of people in so that they seek any job, regardless if they like what that job does or stands for. Also, banks effectively own one's land or business until one can pay back a loan and this causes profiteering behaviour by necessity of survival. Nonetheless, such a position would strike many as highly radical today, though all we wish to do is free them from debt.

We also would like to help people harvest and prepare different forms of preserves, as well as use green energy and natural water sources, which with clean lifestyles can also be self-replentishing. In this way we can cut down on outside expenses and become self-sufficient. That is why the network which we create is important, because if those who produce foods and those who do other forms of work benefit each other mutually, rather than for example turning to factory farms or wholesale warehouses, then the system can reproduce itself.

One of the problems is local vs. international production. It is more cost efficient to produce on mass industrial scales in agriculture and ship them to processing plants. It is also often cheaper as a consumer to purchase from these sources. This is why we feel that the best solution would be international. Forest gardens originally developed in East Asia, but were refined in England to suit a more temperate climate.

Of course another issue is that much production actually relates to mining which is not rather for tools but weapons production. I do not feel like that is within our scope. Each can work from a local position. We don't think that everyone we engage with will produce forest gardens, which is why we wish to use the university to help integrate different lifestyles and skillsets into our ideas, as well as free up natural space.
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Re: Creating society for unified action

Postby Maia » Fri Aug 27, 2021 4:08 pm

Waderby_Orchard wrote:
Maia wrote:This sounds very interesting, since I've often felt drawn to the idea of living outside in nature, in a forest, for example. I'm not quite sure what it is you're trying to set up though, as there appear to be a lot of different ideas involved. As I understand it, you don't currently have a tract of land, but are trying to raise funds, is that right? And you're based in Sweden?


We currently have a small piece of personal land which we do grow crops on. We believe that the forest garden is worth spreading for a number of reasons. Many modern countries have a lack of forest due to deforestation for industry. More forests will also bring people closer to nature which has been shown medically to help with mental health. Because a forest garden incorporates a vast arrange of different 'perennials' (plants which re-grow seasonally, as opposed to annuals which must be replanted), then the forest will remain as a system. There will not be reploughed fields. Paths are planned into forest gardens so you walk between the shrubs. We believe that people would feel happier if their lifestyle was reintegrated into nature, particularly as opposed to apartments.

Our main goal is to help people spread the forest garden. Right now, we are doing that by spreading the idea as well as growing our own and helping others who have forest gardens locally. If we could, we would do all of our work free of charge. That is why we offer collaboration with others. Despite that, because nobody has endless time and resources, we also want to take other measures to gather money (this can be through selling out own produce locally here in Sweden, doing art to sell online) only for the purpose of spreading forest gardens.

There are reasons to spread the forest garden which do not rely on profit-gaining. Because natural environments are affected by their neighbouring ecosystems, if the nature is flourishing around then the growth will be greater within the garden. This has to do with a number of more technical factors like the amount of nitrogen in the soil, moisture contained in the air (which is contained for example in forests because the leaves shelter the sun's rays from drying the natural ground water).

We also have ambitions to begin with schools. Ideally, these would also be run with non-profit motives. One reason that we believe new forms of schooling is important is because we would like to teach others how to plant and maintain forest gardens, but also because we feel that there is a democratic deficit in conventional schooling. The current form used in schools has a teacher acting as an authority and students as passive recipients. We would also like to promote self-guided studies and research as well as the practical application of our knowledge as early as possible for children, with teachers acting as something akin to lifetime learners and guidance counsellors, who would understand different teaching styles and be able to direct children to different aspects of society where they could learn through direct observation, engagement, as well as research. This is a school system we are currently developing, and in some ways hold to be of second priority to the forest garden but with virtues itself.


Having done a little research it appears that the first forest garden in the UK was set up at Wenlock Edge in Shropshire. Not sure if that still exists though. There is, however, something called the Agroforestry Research Trust, which runs a forest garden in Devon.

https://www.agroforestry.co.uk/

All very good ideas I think, and I definitely like the idea of a return to more natural ways of doing things, including farming. I would hesitate, however, to believe that our entire food production system could be run along these lines, although it is clearly unsustainable in its present industrialised form. Perhaps a mixed system is probably best.

Schools, and education, are also things that I'm interested in, and indeed, I was part of a group that was trying to set up a free homeschool for its members' kids, and those of others who were interested, to be held in exclusively outdoor settings and run completely by volunteers from the local Pagan community, and others that they could get in to help. Nothing came of that in the end, but it's an idea I'd be happy to revisit if enough people were interested.
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Re: Creating society for unified action

Postby Waderby_Orchard » Fri Aug 27, 2021 5:15 pm

Maia wrote:Having done a little research it appears that the first forest garden in the UK was set up at Wenlock Edge in Shropshire. Not sure if that still exists though. There is, however, something called the Agroforestry Research Trust, which runs a forest garden in Devon.

https://www.agroforestry.co.uk/

All very good ideas I think, and I definitely like the idea of a return to more natural ways of doing things, including farming. I would hesitate, however, to believe that our entire food production system could be run along these lines, although it is clearly unsustainable in its present industrialised form. Perhaps a mixed system is probably best.

Schools, and education, are also things that I'm interested in, and indeed, I was part of a group that was trying to set up a free homeschool for its members' kids, and those of others who were interested, to be held in exclusively outdoor settings and run completely by volunteers from the local Pagan community, and others that they could get in to help. Nothing came of that in the end, but it's an idea I'd be happy to revisit if enough people were interested.


It was a model from the UK that I learned about forest gardening. I think that it will ultimately have a good impact on the environment in the UK. I am also inspired by the 17th century writer John Beale's work on Orchards of Herefordshire.

We would definitely be more than happy to work with you on developing education programs that can be used by people practically both here and around the world. My girlfriend and I have many ideas and are working on a number of methods both for implementation in practice and texts to be used as guides and to pass down across generations. I think designing these kinds of methods and texts with others is essential, because education is at the heart a social activity, the transmission of our knowledge to others. It is also central to our philosophy that we take consideration of other learning styles and diverse goals in life and try to harmonise them with other people, with our environment, and our personal well-being physically and mentally.

We would also be happy to host any art or texts that people would want to display or sell and would ask for no commission, only that you do honest trading if you use our platforms. We would be more than happy to collaborate with others on artistic, philosophical, or even practical projects if our proximity and resources make it possible.

I also want to offer our forum to any members that would like to join. Our intention is not to steal members from this forum, as we believe that multiple ecosystems is healthy, particularly regarding philosophy. Our forum is designed particularly to facilitate group activities of various sorts. We could, for example, exchange collaborative texts which we would intentionally use for different projects online or jointly. From both our forum, and we could make space on our website, you could host your own websites as well and that way broaden your own network through our own. Our ultimate intention is to get various tradesmen and collaborators involved with active projects and land.

Right now, there is a website called https://www.workaway.info/ where you can host or join other people's cooperative or volunteer projects. To tie these kinds of projects as well as other non-profit endeavours as well as enterprises with good intentions and practices into a space where you have access to and will enable your ability to act effectively in your world.

Here is the like to our forum for those who would like to view it and join: https://waderbyorchard.freeforums.net/
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