Jobs and Immigration

For discussions of culture, politics, economics, sociology, law, business and any other topic that falls under the social science remit.

Jobs and Immigration

Postby Dan~ » Mon May 03, 2021 6:30 am

Who ever came up with the idea that immigration destroys jobs ?

New people living in the country creates jobs / demand.
They all need to eat, drink, communicate, have housing, etc.

I think the idea that immigration destroys jobs,
is a false idea. I'd say it doesn't destroy or create jobs,
it just increases the system that is already in place.
I like http://www.accuradio.com , internet radio.
https://dannerz.itch.io/ -- a new and minimal webside now hosting my free game projects.
ImageImage
Truth is based in sensing, in vision. And we can only see when we are alive.
User avatar
Dan~
ILP Legend
 
Posts: 10671
Joined: Thu Nov 24, 2005 8:14 am
Location: Canada Alberta

Re: Jobs and Immigration

Postby Mr Reasonable » Mon May 03, 2021 8:09 am

bigots dan, bigots.
You see...a pimp's love is very different from that of a square.


Dating a stripper is like eating a noisy bag of chips in church. Everyone looks at you in disgust, but deep down they want some too.
User avatar
Mr Reasonable
resident contrarian
 
Posts: 29545
Joined: Sat Mar 17, 2007 8:54 am
Location: pimping a hole straight through the stratosphere itself

Re: Jobs and Immigration

Postby Dan~ » Mon May 03, 2021 8:17 am

Mr Reasonable wrote:bigots dan, bigots.

Then there are too many bigots.
I like http://www.accuradio.com , internet radio.
https://dannerz.itch.io/ -- a new and minimal webside now hosting my free game projects.
ImageImage
Truth is based in sensing, in vision. And we can only see when we are alive.
User avatar
Dan~
ILP Legend
 
Posts: 10671
Joined: Thu Nov 24, 2005 8:14 am
Location: Canada Alberta

Re: Jobs and Immigration

Postby Mr Reasonable » Mon May 03, 2021 8:21 am

Very true.
You see...a pimp's love is very different from that of a square.


Dating a stripper is like eating a noisy bag of chips in church. Everyone looks at you in disgust, but deep down they want some too.
User avatar
Mr Reasonable
resident contrarian
 
Posts: 29545
Joined: Sat Mar 17, 2007 8:54 am
Location: pimping a hole straight through the stratosphere itself

Re: Jobs and Immigration

Postby Gloominary » Mon May 03, 2021 9:40 am

Consuming by itself doesn't create anything, cause if you're not also working, you have to take money from someone who is, which means they have less money to consume.
Immigrants, especially refugees, 1st, 2nd gen and blue collar immigrants take more existing jobs and create less new jobs than nonimmigrants, raising unemployment and driving down wages.
And illegals drive down wages of blue collar workers even more.
That's part of why mass immigration, especially when jobs aren't plentiful and workers aren't scarce, doesn't make sense, unless you're part of the oligarchy and you want to drive down wages and increase taxes to pay for the increase in unemployment.
The oligarchy doesn't pay taxes.
User avatar
Gloominary
Philosopher
 
Posts: 3678
Joined: Sun Feb 05, 2017 5:58 am
Location: Canada

Re: Jobs and Immigration

Postby MagsJ » Mon May 03, 2021 10:46 am

Gloominary wrote:Consuming by itself doesn't create anything, cause if you're not also working, you have to take money from someone who is, which means they have less money to consume.
Immigrants, especially refugees, 1st, 2nd gen and blue collar immigrants take more existing jobs and create less new jobs than nonimmigrants, raising unemployment and driving down wages.
And illegals drive down wages of blue collar workers even more.
That's part of why mass immigration, especially when jobs aren't plentiful and workers aren't scarce, doesn't make sense, unless you're part of the oligarchy and you want to drive down wages and increase taxes to pay for the increase in unemployment.
The oligarchy doesn't pay taxes.

The truth is unpalatable for the masses, so it’s better to deny such realities of the world and don those subjective glasses, coz even rose-tinted ones are at least based in reality.

Why should a country not protect its borders and it’s peoples.. apart from in the West, people can’t just rock up to a country and claim residency or any kind of immigrant or refugee status.

I don’t think Americans/the West know such facts.. the rest of the world doesn’t practice free-movement of people.
The possibility of anything we can imagine existing is endless and infinite.. - MagsJ
I haven't got the time to spend the time reading something that is telling me nothing, as I will never be able to get back that time, and I may need it for something at some point in time.. Huh! - MagsJ
You’re suggestions and I, just simply don’t mix.. like oil on water, or a really bad DJ - MagsJ
User avatar
MagsJ
The Londonist: a chic geek
 
Posts: 22311
Joined: Wed Nov 01, 2006 2:59 pm
Location: Suryaloka / LDN Town

Re: Jobs and Immigration

Postby encode_decode » Mon May 03, 2021 11:07 am

Dan~ wrote:Who ever came up with the idea that immigration destroys jobs ?

New people living in the country creates jobs / demand.
They all need to eat, drink, communicate, have housing, etc.

I think the idea that immigration destroys jobs,
is a false idea. I'd say it doesn't destroy or create jobs,
it just increases the system that is already in place.

One issue that I see here is that there are plenty of instances that the system has not adjusted and does not adjust to changes quickly enough.
Such is the case of over bureaucratic systems and perhaps a good argument for downsizing systems rather than upsizing systems.
Clearly, human systems are not built to manage such big things. This is so obvious when we take a large look around.
I will build a nerdlike structure in 2021
I only meant that the cat knows - or discovers - that we can toss it out a window at any time = "authority". Dogs accept that notion more quickly - not as willing to test it. O:) - obsrvr524
User avatar
encode_decode
Philosopher
 
Posts: 1688
Joined: Tue Mar 14, 2017 4:07 pm
Location: Nebula

Re: Jobs and Immigration

Postby Gloominary » Mon May 03, 2021 5:15 pm

1st and even 2nd gen immigrants start small businesses at a much lower rate than nonimmigrants, even if they're white collar.
This is because it takes several generations for them to attain the confidence, knowhow and resources it requires.
This is good for the oligarchy because big business and government already have the knowhow and resources to expand to meet the needs of the new arrivals.
This, along with other forms of corporatism and state capitalism, allows big business and gov to grow evermore monstrously rich and powerful, giving them even more leverage when competing against existing and would be small business owners.

That's why newer parts of cities are full of big chain stores like McDick's, Walmart and so on, while the vast majority of mon-and-pops are in older neighborhoods that didn't grow as a result of mass immigration.
Without competition from small businesses big are free to jack up the prices and minimize wages.

Of course by and large our socioeconomy serves the interests of corporations.
Illegal, and mass immigration without an equally massive surplus of jobs and deficiency of workers hurts our nations.
We need either more organic growth, or none at all, since natural resources are scarce in many places, either 0 immigration, or much less, give small amounts of new arrivals a chance to adjust and integrate first, before bringing in more of them.

Organic growth creates beautiful cities and neighborhoods, with lots of character, color and diversity, teeming with small businesses and variety in the look and feel of neighborhoods, homes and shops.
Rapid growth creates cities and neighborhoods where everything looks and feels the same, bland and hideous, you see the same big chains everywhere, the same cookie cutter Mchousing and Mcmalls, everyone isolated from one another, little sense of community, trust and awareness of what's happening.
It lessens the chance of both activism and collective bargaining taking root.
User avatar
Gloominary
Philosopher
 
Posts: 3678
Joined: Sun Feb 05, 2017 5:58 am
Location: Canada

Re: Jobs and Immigration

Postby Mr Reasonable » Mon May 03, 2021 11:44 pm

Gloominary wrote:Consuming by itself doesn't create anything, cause if you're not also working, you have to take money from someone who is, which means they have less money to consume.
Immigrants, especially refugees, 1st, 2nd gen and blue collar immigrants take more existing jobs and create less new jobs than nonimmigrants, raising unemployment and driving down wages.
And illegals drive down wages of blue collar workers even more.
That's part of why mass immigration, especially when jobs aren't plentiful and workers aren't scarce, doesn't make sense, unless you're part of the oligarchy and you want to drive down wages and increase taxes to pay for the increase in unemployment.
The oligarchy doesn't pay taxes.


but trump stopped all the mexicans and now we have labor shortages everywhere
You see...a pimp's love is very different from that of a square.


Dating a stripper is like eating a noisy bag of chips in church. Everyone looks at you in disgust, but deep down they want some too.
User avatar
Mr Reasonable
resident contrarian
 
Posts: 29545
Joined: Sat Mar 17, 2007 8:54 am
Location: pimping a hole straight through the stratosphere itself

Re: Jobs and Immigration

Postby Gloominary » Tue May 04, 2021 12:08 am

Mr Reasonable wrote:
Gloominary wrote:Consuming by itself doesn't create anything, cause if you're not also working, you have to take money from someone who is, which means they have less money to consume.
Immigrants, especially refugees, 1st, 2nd gen and blue collar immigrants take more existing jobs and create less new jobs than nonimmigrants, raising unemployment and driving down wages.
And illegals drive down wages of blue collar workers even more.
That's part of why mass immigration, especially when jobs aren't plentiful and workers aren't scarce, doesn't make sense, unless you're part of the oligarchy and you want to drive down wages and increase taxes to pay for the increase in unemployment.
The oligarchy doesn't pay taxes.


but trump stopped all the mexicans and now we have labor shortages everywhere

How will the upperclass ever manage to cut their lawns if they can't pay Jorje a dollar an hour to do it?
User avatar
Gloominary
Philosopher
 
Posts: 3678
Joined: Sun Feb 05, 2017 5:58 am
Location: Canada

Re: Jobs and Immigration

Postby Gloominary » Tue May 04, 2021 12:47 am

If these corporations can't make decent products at affordable prices without exploiting illegals, without providing American workers decent working conditions and pay, then they don't deserve to exist.
Make it aboveboard fairly, or don't make it at all.
The last thing I think America is suffering from is a lack of goods to consume.
No the real trouble is its working class has been increasingly marginalized since the Reagan years.
I'm a consistent social democrat, I don't think corporations should be able to break labor laws whenever convenient.
User avatar
Gloominary
Philosopher
 
Posts: 3678
Joined: Sun Feb 05, 2017 5:58 am
Location: Canada

Re: Jobs and Immigration

Postby Gloominary » Tue May 04, 2021 1:59 am

The vast majority of these corporations can easily afford to pay more, our upperclass has massively increased its wealth at its working class's expense, they just don't want to, they want to spend it all on themselves and reinvest it in luxuries only they can afford.
The time is long overdue to put citizens and workers 1st.
User avatar
Gloominary
Philosopher
 
Posts: 3678
Joined: Sun Feb 05, 2017 5:58 am
Location: Canada


Return to Society, Government, and Economics



Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users