Canada has declared this group to be a terrorist group

[Peter Kropotkin]

in Canada, they have declared the "Proud boys" a domestic terror group.....

I hope we do the same here and then include any white supremist group
like the GOP and the KKK, as domestic terrorist organization........

Kropotkin

[phoneutria]

thank fuck the US has such things as the right to free speech and assembly

[Peter Kropotkin]

thank fuck the US has such things as the right to free speech and assembly

K: so, which part of the attack upon the capital by groups such as the "proud boys"
falls under free speech or the right to "peacefully assembly?"

if you attack the capital building in the hopes of overthrowing the government,
a coup attempt as it were, then how is that free speech? or how is that a
"peaceful assembly?"

unless you stretch the meaning of the words, free speech to include the violent
attack upon the United States of America and somehow stretch the meaning of
"Peaceful assembly", to include violent insurrection, you don't really have a leg
to stand on in this case.... banning has nothing to do with free speech or the
right to "peacefully assemble"... and had everything to do with the violent
attempt to overthrow the government...

now the second little piece of this puzzle is the fact that, despite popular
belief such as yours, Canada and America are two different countries
with different set of laws and practices...

I cannot speak to what is Canada policy is on free speech or on popular assembly...
I simply don't know enough of Canada's laws to make any determination as to
if this is legal or not....I only know that they have banned the group the "proud boys"
and I would ask that America does the same based on the fact that the "proud boys"
were willing and able participants in the attempted coup of American's government...
their attacks on the nations capital wasn't about free speech and it wasn't about
"peaceful assembly"...so don't get fooled into making this a free speech or a
peaceful assembly issue....it isn't....

Kropotkin

[obsrvr524]

The breach of the US Capital has all of the earmarks of a typical US CIA sting operation designed in advance to shirt blame onto Mr Trump - and is playing out in the exact fashion - despite no evidence at all - exactly like the Ukraine phone call and the Russia Hoax.

Secretly create an incident and point media fingers and attention at the target.

Get used to. Now that they have MSM, and US Congress behind them and have finally succeeded at overthrowing the US government - they are never gong to stop using it to get people to hate and attack whoever they want.

[Peter Kropotkin]

The breach of the US Capital has all of the earmarks of a typical US CIA sting operation designed in advance to shirt blame onto Mr Trump - and is playing out in the exact fashion - despite no evidence at all - exactly like the Ukraine phone call and the Russia Hoax.

Secretly create an incident and point media fingers and attention at the target.

Get used to. Now that they have MSM, and US Congress behind them and have finally succeeded at overthrowing the US government - they are never gong to stop using it to get people to hate and attack whoever they want.

K: ummmm, I see observe going all the way into crazy town... I hope he finds his way
back to sanity...but we will see....

Kropotkin

[Mr Reasonable]

The breach of the US Capital has all of the earmarks of a typical US CIA sting operation designed in advance to shirt blame onto Mr Trump - and is playing out in the exact fashion - despite no evidence at all - exactly like the Ukraine phone call and the Russia Hoax.

Secretly create an incident and point media fingers and attention at the target.

Get used to. Now that they have MSM, and US Congress behind them and have finally succeeded at overthrowing the US government - they are never gong to stop using it to get people to hate and attack whoever they want.

Psycho that shit was planned on parler in broad daylight, and Trump et al encouraged it. They did everything short of outright screaming "storm the Capitol". Then the idiots who did it literally filmed themselves, and the video is out there for the whole world to see, from literally thousands of angles. Then a good chunk of these morons straight up told on themselves...publicly.

How the fuck can you be so delusional as to concoct this crazy, far fetched conspiracy rather than to look at what is happening directly in front of you?

Cell videos from the idiots themselves, posted online are not main stream media bruh. Get your head right. Something is legit wrong with you.

[Urwrongx1000]

Communists like Kropotkin, BLM, and Antifa are the real terrorists in this country.

Those who support them, are also terrorists. We also see that on this forum as their side threatens violence because they cannot argue rationally.

[phoneutria]

thank fuck the US has such things as the right to free speech and assembly

K: so, which part of the attack upon the capital by groups such as the "proud boys"
falls under free speech or the right to "peacefully assembly?"

if you attack the capital building in the hopes of overthrowing the government,
a coup attempt as it were, then how is that free speech? or how is that a
"peaceful assembly?"

unless you stretch the meaning of the words, free speech to include the violent
attack upon the United States of America and somehow stretch the meaning of
"Peaceful assembly", to include violent insurrection, you don't really have a leg
to stand on in this case.... banning has nothing to do with free speech or the
right to "peacefully assemble"... and had everything to do with the violent
attempt to overthrow the government...

now the second little piece of this puzzle is the fact that, despite popular
belief such as yours, Canada and America are two different countries
with different set of laws and practices...

I cannot speak to what is Canada policy is on free speech or on popular assembly...
I simply don't know enough of Canada's laws to make any determination as to
if this is legal or not....I only know that they have banned the group the "proud boys"
and I would ask that America does the same based on the fact that the "proud boys"
were willing and able participants in the attempted coup of American's government...
their attacks on the nations capital wasn't about free speech and it wasn't about
"peaceful assembly"...so don't get fooled into making this a free speech or a
peaceful assembly issue....it isn't....

Kropotkin

members of ANY organization
who conspire to commit violence
and break laws
are subject to answering for it

that does not mean that the organization
does not have the right to speak and assembly

really don't know what the fuck is up with you lately kropo
supposedly an intelligent person
cheering and praising loss of individual freedom
loss of rights that are supposed to be inalienable
like it's a good thing

[Peter Kropotkin]

Communists like Kropotkin, BLM, and Antifa are the real terrorists in this country.

Those who support them, are also terrorists. We also see that on this forum as their side threatens violence because they cannot argue rationally.

K: ah, I am sure you might even believe this big lie, but just keep on repeating
it until someone else believes it...that is how a big lie works, you just keep
on repeating the lie long enough and it becomes a "truth"...

Kropotkin

[von Rivers]

members of ANY organization
who conspire to commit violence
and break laws
are subject to answering for it

...are subject to going to jail for it.

that does not mean that the organization
does not have the right to speak and assembly

In jail?



You may say: it's only members of the organization committing the crime, not the organization. Well, for a terrorist group, it's the organization conspiring and calling for the violence.

It would be like accusing Walmart of trying to offer low prices, and then Walmart's defenders saying that it was only their cashiers who were offering the low prices.

[MagsJ]

_
That storming of Capital Hill.. or whatever it’s called, looked very staged to me..

I can always spot when something looks bait.. and it looked bait.

Like political parties never stage scenarios.

[d0rkyd00d]

_
That storming of Capital Hill.. or whatever it’s called, looked very staged to me..

I can always spot when something looks bait.. and it looked bait.

Like political parties never stage scenarios.

Yeah because pro Trump groups definitely weren't talking about it online for months.

Seriously, I want whatever you guys are having, sounds potent.

[Ecmandu]

What people don’t realize is that you have a lot of moral nihilist bad actors on the world stage. Not all moral nihilists are bad actors. The moral nihilist bad actor club is a real thing... they want absolute control and use power, secrecy and false flags to get the job done. Trump is one of those people BTW.

It’s ridiculous that people think the narrative of trump vs. swamp is a real thing ...

It’s fucking show folks.

I even know psychologically why people do this...

They want order to the chaos, chaos is scary. It even scares me. I just have a different approach to it rather than creating propaganda to make a robot human species.

[phoneutria]

members of ANY organization
who conspire to commit violence
and break laws
are subject to answering for it

...are subject to going to jail for it.

that does not mean that the organization
does not have the right to speak and assembly

In jail?



You may say: it's only members of the organization committing the crime, not the organization. Well, for a terrorist group, it's the organization conspiring and calling for the violence.

It would be like accusing Walmart of trying to offer low prices, and then Walmart's defenders saying that it was only their cashiers who were offering the low prices.

Is it fair to say that BLM and Antifa
are terrorist organizations
that conspire to destroy public and private property
and kill cops?

i wouldn't think so
i think they are a movement
speaking for what they believe
speaking their truth to power
as is their right to do
in a free fucking society

when a protest gets out of hand
and shit gets broken and people hurt
there has to be accountability for that

even more so
if it becomes proven
that people among them conspired ahead of time
by talking about committing those actions
by preparing explosive and inflammatory materials
and bringing them along to the protests

those people are subject to the law
but the group MUST NOT BE SILENCED

[phoneutria]

also appalled at vonrivers
for taking the defense side
of this kind of precedent
a federal decision
on what subjects get to be spoken about

[Ecmandu]

Let’s delve deeper into this:

So that CIA (by the way, I think there are much more secret cabals than the CIA pulling these strings, but let’s just assume it’s the CIA for arguments sake)

Anyways... the CIA created 3 movements (the swamp) to cast doubt on trump deniers and effectively divided the country with these false flag movements to make trump look like a victim (trump is a psychopath by the way - that’s how a psychopath works - and by the way, almost every human on earth is a psychopath)

So here’s little ol’ trump being the aggressor posing as the victim.

But here’s the deal...

Is the CIA making it look like trump is the hero or the villain ?

Is storming the capital because of trump or just to make trump look bad?

Nobody knows.

And that’s the beauty of this operation: to confuse and divide.

You know... they say that conspiracy theories are formed by the mind to make people feel comfort that it’s not all just chaos. That’s fine, and also very true. BUT ! People actually do conspire, for the same reason people have conspiracy theories... they’re both terrified of chaos.

[perpetualburn]

in Canada, they have declared the "Proud boys" a domestic terror group.....

I hope we do the same here and then include any white supremist group
like the GOP and the KKK, as domestic terrorist organization........

Kropotkin

You're a troll.

while the right is stuck and frozen into being cavemen.. because they can't
do anything else...that is all they have, violence and hatred and anger and insults

so, prove to yourself, not to them, they aren't worth the effort, but prove to
yourself that you are human, all too human and make the choices that
reflect that you are a higher/better human being.... that is what being liberal
is all about.....

making smart, rational, human choices that lift us above being just mere
animals that only react with violence and insults.. because they can't do
anything else but react with hatred and anger and violence to any situation.....

show the world and yourself that you are above the hatred and anger
and violence that so dominates the right... show the world what a liberal
really stands for.....

peace and love and hope and justice and charity and honor and
connection and freedom and creativity and humanity and ....etc, etc...
a list of liberal/ human values...

You "hope" the US designates MILLIONS of Americans as possible TERRORISTS... The hypocrisy and moral grandstanding is nauseating... Imagine trying to claim the moral high ground and be a voice of "reason" while you cheer on the predatory targeting of Americans by corrupt, agenda-driven federal agencies. Talk about a sheep in wolf's clothing (not that Peter K is a wolf).... Peter K is just another example of a liberal who cloaks his true desire for blood in the white-laced language of pseudo innocence. Of course, I'm sure he is aware of what he is doing... thus my designation of him as a troll.

To be clear, NO ONE can wage a war without being complicit WITH terror (i.e. you can't wage a war ON terror without being complicit with it yourself... I'm sure the actual phrasing of "the war on terror" is just meant to further confuse and create even more chaos, adding only a further psychological element of terror to the already terrible nature of war). However, since war IS becoming more psychological in nature, I suppose it makes sense that the "war on terror" would finally turn inwards towards the home itself.

[MagsJ]

_
That storming of Capital Hill.. or whatever it’s called, looked very staged to me..

I can always spot when something looks bait.. and it looked bait.

Like political parties never stage scenarios.

Yeah because pro Trump groups definitely weren't talking about it online for months.

Seriously, I want whatever you guys are having, sounds potent.

Still bait.

[phoneutria]

in this thread
grown ass people
in a free country
acting like civil disobedience just got invented

[perpetualburn]

in this thread
grown ass people
in a free country
acting like civil disobedience just got invented

The issue is that people like Peter K want all "civil disobedience" which does not agree with their political views to be designated as "terrorism." Being designated a terrorist means all your Constitutionally protected rights gets instantly stripped away. Nothing then stands between you and the crushing power of the state. What's most cringe worthy is how people like Peter K collectively give themselves a pat on the back ( as if they were standing up to the bad guys! ) as they virtue-signal for the consolidation of governmental powers (which will just as likely be used against them). It's like watching a demented parade of imbeciles honking their horns for peace, love and unity as they march towards totalitarianism... And they find all this "fabulous!" (exclaimed with a gay lisp)

[von Rivers]

Is it fair to say that BLM and Antifa
are terrorist organizations
that conspire to destroy public and private property
and kill cops?

Apparently not if you're you.
But if an organization is cop-killing, plotting violence and harm to people... then fuck yes that is terrorism.

i wouldn't think so
i think they are a movement
speaking for what they believe
speaking their truth to power
as is their right to do
in a free fucking society

You don't have a right to plot murder or harm to people in a free society.
At least not in Canada.
...But you can start the Proud Boys, as a Canadian did. Until you get violent.

even more so
if it becomes proven
that people among them conspired ahead of time
by talking about committing those actions
by preparing explosive and inflammatory materials
and bringing them along to the protests

those people are subject to the law
but the group MUST NOT BE SILENCED

Weird... you think it is OK to silence (i.e., jail) the people after their crime, but not silence them while they are planning it? ...Isn't it a crime to plan violence/terror...?

also appalled at vonrivers
for taking the defense side

"appalled", why?
Feel free to respond then:
https://ilovephilosophy.com/viewtopic.p ... 5#p2801833
Justify your moral outrage.

[phoneutria]

in this thread
grown ass people
in a free country
acting like civil disobedience just got invented

The issue is that people like Peter K want all "civil disobedience" which does not agree with their political views to be designated as "terrorism." Being designated a terrorist means all your Constitutionally protected rights gets instantly stripped away. Nothing then stands between you and the crushing power of the state. What's most cringe worthy is how people like Peter K collectively give themselves a pat on the back ( as if they were standing up to the bad guys! ) as they virtue-signal for the consolidation of governmental powers (which will just as likely be used against them). It's like watching a demented parade of imbeciles honking their horns for peace, love and unity as they march towards totalitarianism... And they find all this "fabulous!" (exclaimed with a gay lisp)

this is what it comes down to
the utter hypocrisy of the people
who have been all about defending the oppressed
the minorities
people who they feel don't have a voice
gloating as they witness sections of society being silenced
because they're on the other side now

which goes to show
that they don't have any fucking principles at all
no real values to stand behind
all they are
is a mouthpiece for one party or another
just a brainless barely functional mass to maneuver as the party sees fit

[phoneutria]

Is it fair to say that BLM and Antifa
are terrorist organizations
that conspire to destroy public and private property
and kill cops?

Apparently not if you're you.
But if an organization is cop-killing, plotting violence and harm to people... then fuck yes that is terrorism.

i wouldn't think so
i think they are a movement
speaking for what they believe
speaking their truth to power
as is their right to do
in a free fucking society

You don't have a right to plot murder or harm to people in a free society.
At least not in Canada.
...But you can start the Proud Boys, as a Canadian did. Until you get violent.

even more so
if it becomes proven
that people among them conspired ahead of time
by talking about committing those actions
by preparing explosive and inflammatory materials
and bringing them along to the protests

those people are subject to the law
but the group MUST NOT BE SILENCED

Weird... you think it is OK to silence (i.e., jail) the people after their crime, but not silence them while they are planning it? ...Isn't it a crime to plan violence/terror...?

yes, it is
i believe i made that very clear
that people caught planning violence should be dealt with
with all rigor of the law

where does that make it ok
to declare an entire organization of people to be terrorists?

apparently there have been 2 individuals charged with conspiracy so far
you're defending outlawing an organization due to there being 2 alleged criminals in it
by that logic, the entire federal government ought to be outlawed

[obsrvr524]

Canola is a globalist/CCP regime. What do you expect them to do?

All patriots of all nations will soon be declared "terrorists" and their Ministries of Truth will not allow contradiction.

[von Rivers]

yes, it is
i believe i made that very clear
that people caught planning violence should be dealt with
with all rigor of the law

where does that make it ok
to declare an entire organization of people to be terrorists?

...if the organization is actually terrorist.
I.e., if they plot destruction or advocate mass casualties to achieve their goals.

That was the point of my Walmart analogy… It is not the cashiers offering low prices, it is Walmart.

also appalled at vonrivers
for taking the defense side
of this kind of precedent
a federal decision
on what subjects get to be spoken about

A ‘terrorist’ designation is not a federal decision on the content of their ideas, only the means of them.
E.g., Hezbollah is not a terrorist org because of its political goals; it’s because they blow themselves up in public.

I suppose the Canadians saw this mob dressed in combat gear storming the capital wearing the same T-shirt logos and said, “fuck those well-prepared and similarly dressed idiots look like beginner terrorists”. Factually you can argue, “noooo, nooooooh, just two of them”. But its not my issue because I’m not debating about a particular group—-only the philosophical issue of free-speech boundaries.

apparently there have been 2 individuals charged with conspiracy so far
you're defending outlawing an organization due to there being 2 alleged criminals in it

Factually, I think that’s wrong, but it doesn’t matter. If 2 people in a group did terrorism stuff, then I’d consider the whole group terrorists if (1) they were the leadership, or (2) acting on the leadership directive or organizational philosophy. Secondly, the percentage of a membership that actually blows themselves up changes the threat-level of the group, but not the fact that they're terrorists.

those people are subject to the law
but the group MUST NOT BE SILENCED

Silencing a group is different than preventing the non-violent expression of an idea.