The presidential inauguration of Joe Biden Jan 20th 2021

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Re: The presidential inauguration of Joe Biden Jan 20th 2021

Postby Peter Kropotkin » Fri Jan 08, 2021 8:53 pm

Berkley Babes wrote:Serious question, have you ever just looked at the green paper that is money and wondered how people accept on some type of faith or unspoken agreement, that that thing has any, and I mean, any value. Maybe you have. Well, I doubt than anyone on the planet has a proper explanation how that valuation was arrived at. I get that people are willing to exchange labor for it, but I don't get the value itself. Fuck, it opens doors, who can explain that. It really only serves as fire kindling, at best.

Anyway, Idealist as I am, I don't place human beings over animals. Or even rocks, if I'm hard pressed about it. But that is a debate for some other strange day.


K: and we have a winner... the valuation of money over human beings is one of the primary
causes of the current malaise of America...Conservative all over will happily let
people die if it can save them a few bucks... money being valued over lives...
the entire argument of the right against the stimulus bill is that taxpayer's
money is far more valuable then people's lives....

given the choice between lives and money.. the right will pick money, every single
time... every single time...if you devalue human beings in this fashion...
then it is easy to overlook starving children or people living on the streets
or people being forced to choose between food and medicine, as my mom
who is 86 is forced to do... but hay, as long as we can keep the rich, rich..
life is good....

Kropotkin
PK IS EVIL.....
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Re: The presidential inauguration of Joe Biden Jan 20th 2021

Postby Berkley Babes » Fri Jan 08, 2021 8:57 pm

Zero_Sum wrote:
Berkley Babes wrote:Serious question, have you ever just looked at the green paper that is money and wondered how people accept on some type of faith or unspoken agreement, that that thing has any, and I mean, any value. Maybe you have. Well, I doubt than anyone on the planet has a proper explanation how that valuation was arrived at. I get that people are willing to exchange labor for it, but I don't get the value itself. Fuck, it opens doors, who can explain that. It really only serves as fire kindling, at best.

Anyway, Idealist as I am, I don't place human beings over animals. Or even rocks, if I'm hard pressed about it. But that is a debate for some other strange day.


Human greed, lust, and the desire for power or prestige is why money exists to begin with. The eternal relentless conundrum of human nature itself.

Well, that's good, that means you're not entirely an idiot, Peter and Dork on the other hand....

At least you argue your point of view and are not afraid to listen to others thoroughly, for that you have my respect which is why I've engaged you today even though I don't agree with a majority of what you have to say.


I not afraid to listen to you thoroughly because I know how it feels to get riled up about issues, too. Today, even though I don't agree with you much, I like your passion about topics, and I truly don't seek to change your opinions. You are who you are for now. No need to convert to my line of thought, haha, like a disciple.
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Re: The presidential inauguration of Joe Biden Jan 20th 2021

Postby Zero_Sum » Fri Jan 08, 2021 8:58 pm

Peter Kropotkin wrote:
K: and we have a winner... the valuation of money over human beings is one of the primary
causes of the current malaise of America...Conservative all over will happily let
people die if it can save them a few bucks... money being valued over lives...
the entire argument of the right against the stimulus bill is that taxpayer's
money is far more valuable then people's lives....

given the choice between lives and money.. the right will pick money, every single
time... every single time...if you devalue human beings in this fashion...
then it is easy to overlook starving children or people living on the streets
or people being forced to choose between food and medicine, as my mom
who is 86 is forced to do... but hay, as long as we can keep the rich, rich..
life is good....

Kropotkin


That is republicanism, as a poor man myself and even as a hard right fascist I too abhor the way the working class or general poor has been treated for decades. Still, I believe there is a right and wrong way at approaching the subject, going into trillions of dollars of national debt to the communist Chinese is not the solution. But then again, my solution would be going around with a bunch of execution death squads unlike your precious belief in political voting. 8)
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Re: The presidential inauguration of Joe Biden Jan 20th 2021

Postby Zero_Sum » Fri Jan 08, 2021 9:03 pm

Berkley Babes wrote:
I not afraid to listen to you thoroughly because I know how it feels to get riled up about issues, too. Today, even though I don't agree with you much, I like your passion about topics, and I truly don't seek to change your opinions. You are who you are for now. No need to convert to my line of thought, haha, like a disciple.


And that is why you garnish my respect, and so long you keep doing so in return I'll do the same. :wink:

Unlike many others here that simply outright refuse to listen to an opinion or perception contrary to their own. Yes, while I do seem quite rigid in my own beliefs what might surprise people here is that I like listening to the beliefs of all people. In comes in handy crushing your opponents when you thoroughly study everything that they believe in. I make it my attempt and mission to study my opponents thoroughly.
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Re: The presidential inauguration of Joe Biden Jan 20th 2021

Postby Berkley Babes » Fri Jan 08, 2021 9:06 pm

Again, I have to point out the absurdity of value when it comes to national debt. How can you owe money to yourself? How? You just print the shit. Print too much, oh no, inflation, well, what the fuck is that? Then you get into people playing all types of scarcity tactics to drive demand. While remaining abundant. Nonsense.

As far as I can tell, the only moving part here is whether a majority of people are still willing to exert effort in some work arena. The impression I get, is that the overall work ethic in most people has yet to flag.


For fuck sake, there are planets out in space made of all diamonds, whatever that implies.
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Re: The presidential inauguration of Joe Biden Jan 20th 2021

Postby Berkley Babes » Fri Jan 08, 2021 9:09 pm

Zero_Sum wrote:
Berkley Babes wrote:
I not afraid to listen to you thoroughly because I know how it feels to get riled up about issues, too. Today, even though I don't agree with you much, I like your passion about topics, and I truly don't seek to change your opinions. You are who you are for now. No need to convert to my line of thought, haha, like a disciple.


And that is why you garnish my respect, and so long you keep doing so in return I'll do the same. :wink:

Unlike many others here that simply outright refuse to listen to an opinion or perception contrary to their own. Yes, while I do seem quite rigid in my own beliefs what might surprise people here is that I like listening to the beliefs of all people. In comes in handy crushing your opponents when you thoroughly study everything that they believe in. I make it my attempt and mission to study my opponents thoroughly.



Haha, today I find that you enjoy crushing opponents to be entertaining, even if I happen to fall into that category tomorrow.
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Re: The presidential inauguration of Joe Biden Jan 20th 2021

Postby Zero_Sum » Fri Jan 08, 2021 9:09 pm

Berkley Babes wrote:Again, I have to point out the absurdity of value when it comes to national debt. How can you owe money to yourself? How? You just print the shit. Print too much, oh no, inflation, well, what the fuck is that? Then you get into people playing all types of scarcity tactics to drive demand. While remaining abundant. Nonsense.

As far as I can tell, the only moving part here is whether a majority of people are still willing to exert effort in some work arena. The impression I get, is that the overall work ethic in most people has yet to flag.


For fuck sake, there are planets out in space made of all diamonds, whatever that implies.


At this point it is getting to that old Soviet expression, "We pretend to work and they pretend to pay us." I see this manifesting everywhere.

The amount of financial debt the United States has accumulated is largely owed to China, but if we were more accurate we would say it is owned to the central banks and of course once you find out exactly who owns a majority of the central banks in the world you're even closer to answering the current riddle of international affairs. 8)
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Re: The presidential inauguration of Joe Biden Jan 20th 2021

Postby d0rkyd00d » Fri Jan 08, 2021 9:11 pm

*tinfoil hat activated*

We talkin illuminati here? Bilderberg meetings?
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Re: The presidential inauguration of Joe Biden Jan 20th 2021

Postby Zero_Sum » Fri Jan 08, 2021 9:13 pm

d0rkyd00d wrote:*tinfoil hat activated*

We talkin illuminati here? Bilderberg meetings?


My answer would be too impolitically correct, so I won't even bother. I'll just let you sit and stew. 8)

They call themselves Davos or World International Forum nowadays anyways.
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Re: The presidential inauguration of Joe Biden Jan 20th 2021

Postby Berkley Babes » Fri Jan 08, 2021 9:18 pm

Zero_Sum wrote:
Berkley Babes wrote:Again, I have to point out the absurdity of value when it comes to national debt. How can you owe money to yourself? How? You just print the shit. Print too much, oh no, inflation, well, what the fuck is that? Then you get into people playing all types of scarcity tactics to drive demand. While remaining abundant. Nonsense.

As far as I can tell, the only moving part here is whether a majority of people are still willing to exert effort in some work arena. The impression I get, is that the overall work ethic in most people has yet to flag.


For fuck sake, there are planets out in space made of all diamonds, whatever that implies.


At this point it is getting to that old Soviet expression, "We pretend to work and they pretend to pay us." I see this manifesting everywhere.

The amount of financial debt the United States has accumulated is largely owed to China, but if we were more accurate we would say it is owned to the central banks and of course once you find out exactly who owns a majority of the central banks in the world you're even closer to answering the current riddle of international affairs. 8)


Well the amount of people who want to get paid for paid for playing games is increasing. I'll give you that. For many Americans, that is the goal, pay for play. But I have dug actual ditches, and it wasn't fun, and when I stopped, there was someone to replace me. That's besides the point. Soon people will go to work entirely in virtual worlds, which is hard to measure in terms of stress and strain on the physical back.

If China leap frogs us, couldn't we then steal their intellectual property and leap frog them back?
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Re: The presidential inauguration of Joe Biden Jan 20th 2021

Postby Zero_Sum » Fri Jan 08, 2021 9:31 pm

Berkley Babes wrote:


Well the amount of people who want to get paid for paid for playing games is increasing. I'll give you that. For many Americans, that is the goal, pay for play. But I have dug actual ditches, and it wasn't fun, and when I stopped, there was someone to replace me. That's besides the point. Soon people will go to work entirely in virtual worlds, which is hard to measure in terms of stress and strain on the physical back.

If China leap frogs us, couldn't we then steal their intellectual property and leap frog them back?


I've worked many physically excruciating jobs from working on the railroad, factory assemblies, to picking vegetables out in a farm field under the hot sun. I know where you're coming from. I refuse to work hard anymore because there is no money or reward in that other than dying in an early grave. Yeah, I think the notion of a virtual economy is a joke and simply unworkable on a grand scale. This whole remote working thing is laughable.

Leap frog China? Maybe, but I doubt it. One thing the Chinese got for themselves is that they're homogenous racially and culturally where they got the power population wise. The west is racially or culturally fragmented largely un-unified with a huge elderly population dying off, I simply don't see any way of ever competing against China unless some radical implementation is put into place, but given the growing tide of western neo-liberalism and western style Marxists they would challenge any kind of radical implementation politically, until they're taken out of the equation the Chinese will swarm this planet like locusts internationally.
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Re: The presidential inauguration of Joe Biden Jan 20th 2021

Postby Berkley Babes » Fri Jan 08, 2021 9:39 pm

Zero_Sum wrote:
Berkley Babes wrote:


Well the amount of people who want to get paid for paid for playing games is increasing. I'll give you that. For many Americans, that is the goal, pay for play. But I have dug actual ditches, and it wasn't fun, and when I stopped, there was someone to replace me. That's besides the point. Soon people will go to work entirely in virtual worlds, which is hard to measure in terms of stress and strain on the physical back.

If China leap frogs us, couldn't we then steal their intellectual property and leap frog them back?


I've worked many physically excruciating jobs from working on the railroad, factory assemblies, to picking vegetables out in a farm field under the hot sun. I know where you're coming from. I refuse to work hard anymore because there is no money or reward in that other than dying in an early grave. Yeah, I think the notion of a virtual economy is a joke and simply unworkable on a grand scale. This whole remote working thing is laughable.

Leap frog China? Maybe, but I doubt it. One thing the Chinese got for them is that they're homogenous racially and culturally where they got the power population wise. The west is racially or culturally fragmented with a huge elderly population dying off, I simply don't see any way of ever competing against China unless some radical implementation is put into place, but given the growing tide of western neo-liberalism and western style Marxists they would challenge any kind of radical implementation politically, until they're taken out of the equation the Chinese will swarm this planet like locusts internationally.


The way you put it, you're probably right about cultural fragmentation versus China's totality. Personally, I am partial to Eastern philosophy, whether it be Buddhism, Taoism, or Hinduism. I'm not like a monk or anything, but it's helped me understand weakness a little better, and why water is fine to be in low spots. Anyway, the locust image will probably stay with me a while. Dare I even say it, fear the locusts!
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Re: The presidential inauguration of Joe Biden Jan 20th 2021

Postby d0rkyd00d » Fri Jan 08, 2021 9:46 pm

Is it impossible that having a dictatorial government along with a more communal population, in some cases, could advance a country's goals better than a country that emphasizes individualism? Doesn't seem unlikely to me.

Even better would be the ability to oscillate between hive mind and individualism, as U.S. and others did during WW2.
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Re: The presidential inauguration of Joe Biden Jan 20th 2021

Postby Zero_Sum » Fri Jan 08, 2021 9:51 pm

d0rkyd00d wrote:Is it impossible that having a dictatorial government along with a more communal population, in some cases, could advance a country's goals better than a country that emphasizes individualism? Doesn't seem unlikely to me.

Even better would be the ability to oscillate between hive mind and individualism, as U.S. and others did during WW2.


Individualism was always a classical liberal lie sold to the west politically, collectivism is far superior to individualism for more obvious reasons. A single twig breaks easily, but it's much harder to do when they're bundled together in a pile.
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Re: The presidential inauguration of Joe Biden Jan 20th 2021

Postby Zero_Sum » Fri Jan 08, 2021 10:04 pm

Even now the republicans squirm about media optics, legality, and the rule of law, these fools cannot see the absolute lawlessness of the United States. To be truthful, the United States has been lawless for sometime and it didn't just start with Donald Trump either. The usurpers of this nation own the courts, so for me to concern themselves with legalities is humorous or a giant waste of time.

In the future this world will not reward cowards, pacifists, or naive fools regard for the rule of law. In case they haven't noticed the rule of law was usurped in this nation a long time ago.

And look at law enforcement rounding up individuals for insignificant property damage or trespassing like it is some sort of capital high treason crime especially after a summer of nationwide riots, home invasions, or invading the Whitehouse grounds, I never really held law enforcement in this nation in high regard before recent events and now I hold them in even less regard concerning outright contempt.
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Re: The presidential inauguration of Joe Biden Jan 20th 2021

Postby Berkley Babes » Fri Jan 08, 2021 10:19 pm

To put that all into another context, I live in a mid sized city, next to another mid-sized city, culminating a decent population size, but if I didn't watch the news, I would have no idea that conflicts were escalating anywhere else. Maybe my point here does nothing for you, and I'm sorry for that, but sometimes you can look outside the window without the need for a weather person.

In other news, the world is spinning faster that usual. So fast, you can't feel it. Crazy, huh?
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Re: The presidential inauguration of Joe Biden Jan 20th 2021

Postby Zero_Sum » Fri Jan 08, 2021 10:20 pm

Berkley Babes wrote:To put that all into another context, I live in a mid sized city, next to another mid-sized city, culminating a decent population size, but if I didn't watch the news, I would have no idea that conflicts were escalating anywhere else. Maybe my point here does nothing for you, and I'm sorry for that, but sometimes you can look outside the window without the need for a weather person.

In other news, the world is spinning faster that usual. So fast, you can't feel it. Crazy, huh?


That is until things happen in your backyard or other people here. It's always fun and easy to ignore until things show up in your own residential neighborhood. 8)
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Re: The presidential inauguration of Joe Biden Jan 20th 2021

Postby Berkley Babes » Fri Jan 08, 2021 10:27 pm

Like I mentioned either in this thread or another political thread, I'm still waiting until a tank rolls down my main street. I'd better understand my reaction then, I think. Until then, people can put up political signs in government owned property all they want.
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Re: The presidential inauguration of Joe Biden Jan 20th 2021

Postby Zero_Sum » Fri Jan 08, 2021 10:27 pm

Donald Trump is not showing up to Biden's inauguration, no big surprise there, the mob wants his hide and head on a pike along with going after the rest of his family line. It's clear they want blood, I imagine him and his family will leave the country soon.

Oh, who am I kidding? They probably won't allow him to do that either, they plan on making a public example out of him one way or another. I wonder, if they imprison Trump and his entire family will that be enough to get neoconservatives off their lazy asses to actually do something? Time will tell, still, if neoconservatives fail to mount any kind of resistance something else will merely take its place. Win, win. 8)
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Re: The presidential inauguration of Joe Biden Jan 20th 2021

Postby Zero_Sum » Fri Jan 08, 2021 10:29 pm

Berkley Babes wrote:Like I mentioned either in this thread or another political thread, I'm still waiting until a tank rolls down my main street. I'd better understand my reaction then, I think. Until then, people can put up political signs in government owned property all they want.


Tanks in the streets? We're not there yet but I do imagine that's inevitably coming on the near future horizon. I'm kinda curious to see what event brings that in place. Here's to watching events as they constantly unfold. 8)
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Re: The presidential inauguration of Joe Biden Jan 20th 2021

Postby Berkley Babes » Fri Jan 08, 2021 10:31 pm

Also, I suppose if I found myself on jam packed train headed for a gas chamber, I would say, "You know that Zero Sum guy was really on to something."
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Re: The presidential inauguration of Joe Biden Jan 20th 2021

Postby Berkley Babes » Fri Jan 08, 2021 10:32 pm

Zero_Sum wrote:
Berkley Babes wrote:Like I mentioned either in this thread or another political thread, I'm still waiting until a tank rolls down my main street. I'd better understand my reaction then, I think. Until then, people can put up political signs in government owned property all they want.


Tanks in the streets? We're not there yet but I do imagine that's inevitably coming on the near future horizon. I'm kinda curious to see what event brings that in place. Here's to watching events as they constantly unfold. 8)



Geezers need excitement. If they don't get it, they incite it, I guess. Butter for you popcorn style.
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Re: The presidential inauguration of Joe Biden Jan 20th 2021

Postby Zero_Sum » Fri Jan 08, 2021 10:34 pm

Berkley Babes wrote:Also, I suppose if I found myself on jam packed train headed for a gas chamber, I would say, "You know that Zero Sum guy was really on to something."


Just make sure you're on the winning side when the time comes or stay out of their way, you'll survive. I'm not saying it will be my side either [although I'd like it to be], the world is becoming very unpredictable, even I'm having a hard time following things.
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Re: The presidential inauguration of Joe Biden Jan 20th 2021

Postby Zero_Sum » Fri Jan 08, 2021 10:36 pm

Berkley Babes wrote:Geezers need excitement. If they don't get it, they incite it, I guess. Butter for you popcorn style.


Even pawns on a chessboard have their uses. 8) :lol:
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Re: The presidential inauguration of Joe Biden Jan 20th 2021

Postby Berkley Babes » Fri Jan 08, 2021 10:36 pm

The best way I've heard those sides described is this: "You are either telling a computer what to do, or a computer is telling you what to do."
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