Trump Supporters: How Can We Bridge the Gap?

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Re: Trump Supporters: How Can We Bridge the Gap?

Postby obsrvr524 » Thu Dec 31, 2020 10:27 pm

d0rkyd00d wrote:They didn't break their own laws.

That is an argument I would like to hear. And if true why didn't SCOTUS take the case and make that call? Why didn't any of the lower courts declare that? Instead they merely declined to hear the case (the Chief Justice being overheard through the walls screaming at the other justices - "I DON'T WANT TO HEAR IT!"

d0rkyd00d wrote:No it's not what happened with Trump, you're attacking a straw man. Where the hell did Hillary come from? I said Obama was not claiming the election was fraudulent. The sitting president was not making things difficult for the incoming president. And now I hear a lot of the same individuals telling the "snowflakes" who were protesting the election of President Trump calling for civil war if the election isn't overturned. It's hypocritical.

Have you been asleep for the last 4 years?

It was Obama who started the entire Russian Hoax via Hillary's scheme to distract from her email scandal - verified by the anti-Trump CIA. Or is that just part of the news that you have ignored?

Additionally Obama had used up his last term anyway. So he certainly wasn't trying to save his own reelection. He was trying to destroy Mr Trump's election. And he was overheard saying, "Sometimes things just go wrong". Mr Obama was just more carefully secretive about it. Mr Trump lets the chips fall in the open.

And it was the MSM that made such a loud attack all during Mr Trumps tenure and ALSO during this election. So of course there is more noise now than before.

d0rkyd00d wrote:Your "reasons" are both faith based claims, something I cannot accept as arguments. I need evidence.

My arguments have nothing to do with faith. And you obvious ignore evidence against your own bias - still.

You argue that 60 courts couldn't be wrong. But how do you justify the tremendous amount of presented evidence that would require a much much bigger conspiracy if false that shows that the courts are not doing their job?

You are actually more of a "conspiracy theorist" than the Trumpers.

d0rkyd00d wrote:Think about what you are claiming here: that Trump & others in his administration knew about election fraud but didn't care because they won. That either demonstrates absolute shortsightedness, or you're assumption is incorrect, and nobody took claims of election fraud seriously.

No. What it means is that you conclude before looking deeply into anything - then only see what supports your conclusion ("confirmation bias"). Your arguments are naive and superficial - lacking experience in the reality of how these things work.
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Re: Trump Supporters: How Can We Bridge the Gap?

Postby obsrvr524 » Thu Dec 31, 2020 10:45 pm

_
These are two short videos of merely two witnesses. Look at them carefully and explain what these people are saying and what it means.


Ok - 3 witnesses. :D
Last edited by obsrvr524 on Thu Dec 31, 2020 10:55 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Trump Supporters: How Can We Bridge the Gap?

Postby d0rkyd00d » Thu Dec 31, 2020 10:50 pm

obsrvr524 wrote:
d0rkyd00d wrote:They didn't break their own laws.

That is an argument I would like to hear. And if true why didn't SCOTUS take the case and make that call? Why didn't any of the lower courts declare that? Instead they merely declined to hear the case (the Chief Justice being overheard through the walls screaming at the other justices - "I DON'T WANT TO HEAR IT!"

d0rkyd00d wrote:No it's not what happened with Trump, you're attacking a straw man. Where the hell did Hillary come from? I said Obama was not claiming the election was fraudulent. The sitting president was not making things difficult for the incoming president. And now I hear a lot of the same individuals telling the "snowflakes" who were protesting the election of President Trump calling for civil war if the election isn't overturned. It's hypocritical.

Have you been asleep for the last 4 years?

It was Obama who started the entire Russian Hoax via Hillary's scheme to distract from her email scandal - verified by the anti-Trump CIA. Or is that just part of the news that you have ignored?

Additionally Obama had used up his last term anyway. So he certainly wasn't trying to save his own reelection. He was trying to destroy Mr Trump's election. And he was overheard saying, "Sometimes things just go wrong". Mr Obama was just more carefully secretive about it. Mr Trump lets the chips fall in the open.

And it was the MSM that made such a loud attack all during Mr Trumps tenure and ALSO during this election. So of course there is more noise now than before.

d0rkyd00d wrote:Your "reasons" are both faith based claims, something I cannot accept as arguments. I need evidence.

My arguments have nothing to do with faith. And you obvious ignore evidence against your own bias - still.

You argue that 60 courts couldn't be wrong. But how do you justify the tremendous amount of presented evidence that would require a much much bigger conspiracy if false that shows that the courts are not doing their job?

You are actually more of a "conspiracy theorist" than the Trumpers.

d0rkyd00d wrote:Think about what you are claiming here: that Trump & others in his administration knew about election fraud but didn't care because they won. That either demonstrates absolute shortsightedness, or you're assumption is incorrect, and nobody took claims of election fraud seriously.


No. What it means is that you conclude before looking deeply into anything - then only see what supports your conclusion ("confirmation bias"). Your arguments are naive and superficial - lacking experience in the reality of how these things work.


Again, you are attacking a straw man. All I am claiming is that Obama did not intentionally block and obstruct the normal transition process the way Trump is. If we cannot agree on this obvious fact, then it does unfortunately appear we perceive reality differently.

I get it, the claim is the conspiracy keeps growing bigger and bigger. But whenever that happens, my bullshit alarms start going off like crazy. That's when I start requiring extraordinary evidence to justify such an extraordinary claim.

Your responses, almost 100% of the time, aren't even addressing my question or what I'm saying. Just kind of going off on a tangent. It's not a great path to productive conversation.
"So long as the people do not care to exercise their freedom, those who wish to tyrannize will do so; for tyrants are active and ardent, and will devote themselves in the name of any number of gods, religious and otherwise, to put shackles upon sleeping men." -Voltaire

"If an opinion contrary to your own makes you angry, that is a sign that you are subconsciously aware of having no good reason for thinking as you do."
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Re: Trump Supporters: How Can We Bridge the Gap?

Postby obsrvr524 » Thu Dec 31, 2020 11:01 pm

d0rkyd00d wrote:Again, you are attacking a straw man. All I am claiming is that Obama did not intentionally block and obstruct the normal transition process the way Trump is. If we cannot agree on this obvious fact, then it does unfortunately appear we perceive reality differently.

I DID agree with that. What I didn't agree with is that the two events are similar enough. Mr Trump wasn't the one trying to illegally undermine Hillary's campaign.

d0rkyd00d wrote:Your responses, almost 100% of the time, aren't even addressing my question or what I'm saying. Just kind of going off on a tangent. It's not a great path to productive conversation.

That is because when I don't buy into YOUR strawman, you shut off your mind - "see no evil - hear no evil = think no evil."
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Re: Trump Supporters: How Can We Bridge the Gap?

Postby obsrvr524 » Thu Dec 31, 2020 11:17 pm

And if you think that those witnesses were just lying and the degree of fraud isn't any greater than normal how do you explain THIS video -
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Re: Trump Supporters: How Can We Bridge the Gap?

Postby d0rkyd00d » Fri Jan 01, 2021 6:43 pm

obsrvr524 wrote:And if you think that those witnesses were just lying and the degree of fraud isn't any greater than normal how do you explain THIS video -



Pretty easily. He is referring to legislation the Obama administration passed to make voting easier, more secure, and more accessible. The context makes this apparent, but I do not see context in this brief clip.
"So long as the people do not care to exercise their freedom, those who wish to tyrannize will do so; for tyrants are active and ardent, and will devote themselves in the name of any number of gods, religious and otherwise, to put shackles upon sleeping men." -Voltaire

"If an opinion contrary to your own makes you angry, that is a sign that you are subconsciously aware of having no good reason for thinking as you do."
-Bertrand Russell
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Re: Trump Supporters: How Can We Bridge the Gap?

Postby obsrvr524 » Fri Jan 01, 2021 10:05 pm

d0rkyd00d wrote:Pretty easily. He is referring to legislation the Obama administration passed to make voting easier, more secure, and more accessible. The context makes this apparent, but I do not see context in this brief clip.

So if you put together a means to make shopping "easier, more secure, and more accessible" - you would say that you have "put together the most extensive and inclusive shoplifting organization in history" - while in fact you install the proven to be most insecure method of shopping? Why would anyone believe you meant the opposite of what you actually said?

I understand that context can make a big difference - MSM very often plays that game on Mr Trump. But can you provide that relevant context you say is missing?


And perhaps you didn't see this post --
obsrvr524 wrote:_
These are two short videos of merely two witnesses. Look at them carefully and explain what these people are saying and what it means.


Ok - 3 witnesses. :D


And then after that the following happened -
It is a little hard to hear but what he said was that within 4 hours of him getting permission to examine the ballots shredding trucks pulled up to destroy the evidence.

If they wanted to "bridge the gap" all they had to do was allow for a forensic examination of the ballots and machines. The problem would be solved and over in one day.

But instead, just like with Hillary Clinton 5 years ago - THEY ILLEGALLY SHRED THE EVIDENCE

That is tantamount to an admission of guilt of what was suspected and also proof of criminal destruction of evidence to obstruct an investigation.
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