Trump Supporters: How Can We Bridge the Gap?

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Trump Supporters: How Can We Bridge the Gap?

Postby d0rkyd00d » Thu Dec 10, 2020 9:18 pm

I know my worldview is different from both Trump supporters & opponents in most cases.

I feel that most Americans are actually "on the same team," even though each side views the other as the opposition. I also think it would also require the coordinated effort of these two opposing sides, facing a common enemy, to address and actually resolve the issues in government plaguing America today.

Where do we start?
"So long as the people do not care to exercise their freedom, those who wish to tyrannize will do so; for tyrants are active and ardent, and will devote themselves in the name of any number of gods, religious and otherwise, to put shackles upon sleeping men." -Voltaire

"If an opinion contrary to your own makes you angry, that is a sign that you are subconsciously aware of having no good reason for thinking as you do."
-Bertrand Russell
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Re: Trump Supporters: How Can We Bridge the Gap?

Postby Pedro I Rengel » Thu Dec 10, 2020 9:36 pm

d0rkyd00d wrote:I know my worldview is different from both Trump supporters & opponents in most cases.

I feel that most Americans are actually "on the same team," even though each side views the other as the opposition. I also think it would also require the coordinated effort of these two opposing sides, facing a common enemy, to address and actually resolve the issues in government plaguing America today.

Where do we start?


Well, in your first thread you came off the bat insulting.

Not doing that might be a good place.
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Re: Trump Supporters: How Can We Bridge the Gap?

Postby d0rkyd00d » Thu Dec 10, 2020 9:40 pm

That's fair. Which part was insulting?

And Pedro, what do you feel most strongly about when it comes to the view of what you would consider, "the opponent?"
"So long as the people do not care to exercise their freedom, those who wish to tyrannize will do so; for tyrants are active and ardent, and will devote themselves in the name of any number of gods, religious and otherwise, to put shackles upon sleeping men." -Voltaire

"If an opinion contrary to your own makes you angry, that is a sign that you are subconsciously aware of having no good reason for thinking as you do."
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Re: Trump Supporters: How Can We Bridge the Gap?

Postby d0rkyd00d » Thu Dec 10, 2020 9:43 pm

Also, let me clarify what I mean by most Americans being "on the same team."

By that I mean I believe most of us have gotten fucked over by the same people for the same reasons with the same policies, and it would behoove most who voted for Trump & Biden to align and unite against "oppressive forces."
"So long as the people do not care to exercise their freedom, those who wish to tyrannize will do so; for tyrants are active and ardent, and will devote themselves in the name of any number of gods, religious and otherwise, to put shackles upon sleeping men." -Voltaire

"If an opinion contrary to your own makes you angry, that is a sign that you are subconsciously aware of having no good reason for thinking as you do."
-Bertrand Russell
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Re: Trump Supporters: How Can We Bridge the Gap?

Postby Pedro I Rengel » Thu Dec 10, 2020 9:43 pm

Im on the streets right now but I like this thread and I shall return.

Let's see to what exrent we can build on good faith.

Right away though, I can tell you we will disagree 9n things and we may not be on "the same team" like you think and I hope the insults dont start then.
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Re: Trump Supporters: How Can We Bridge the Gap?

Postby d0rkyd00d » Thu Dec 10, 2020 9:51 pm

Pedro I Rengel wrote:Im on the streets right now but I like this thread and I shall return.

Let's see to what exrent we can build on good faith.

Right away though, I can tell you we will disagree 9n things and we may not be on "the same team" like you think and I hope the insults dont start then.


Sounds good, looking forward to it.
"So long as the people do not care to exercise their freedom, those who wish to tyrannize will do so; for tyrants are active and ardent, and will devote themselves in the name of any number of gods, religious and otherwise, to put shackles upon sleeping men." -Voltaire

"If an opinion contrary to your own makes you angry, that is a sign that you are subconsciously aware of having no good reason for thinking as you do."
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Re: Trump Supporters: How Can We Bridge the Gap?

Postby Peter Kropotkin » Thu Dec 10, 2020 10:00 pm

d0rkyd00d: "I know my worldview is different from both Trump supporters & opponents in most cases.
I feel that most Americans are actually "on the same team," even though each side views the other as the opposition. I also think it would also require the coordinated effort of these two opposing sides, facing a common enemy, to address and actually resolve the issues in government plaguing America today.
Where do we start?"

P: Well, in your first thread you came off the bat insulting.
Not doing that might be a good place.


K: and right off the bat, you went and attacked Dork....

the first problem to overcome is the very language differences used
by the left and the right.....

the right, in pedro, UR, obser, and Karpel have all used radical language
to attack the left... they have called for martial law, prison, dictatorship
and in some cases, death to those on the left.....whereas we on the left, the so called
"communist" which in fact, neither IAM or I, is a communist.. but those sort of
distinctions are ignored by these posters..

Have either IAM or myself called for prison or martial law or death for
anyone on the right? no, of course not... the very language we use is different....
(now one might argued I have called IQ45 and family to go to prison, and I did,
but they have clearly and indisputable have committed crimes as oppose to going
to prison or dying just for being a conservative or for holding conservative viewpoints)

my very language has been decidedly much softer then the right wing posters.....

do we make fun of these posters? hell yah, and I see no problem with that....
but making fun isn't calling for someone's death because they are liberal......

what we ask for and especially IAM, is for dialogue.... he is constantly
encouraging the right to engage in dialogue....but the right rejects that
call because it isn't done on their terms...

Ok, let us try this... those posters I have mentioned... where is some middle ground
we can meet and discuss matters.... I shall allow you to engage in the discussion
on your terms.... so, do you wish to engage in dialogue that might, might bring
us together?

Kropotkin
PK IS EVIL.....
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Re: Trump Supporters: How Can We Bridge the Gap?

Postby phoneutria » Thu Dec 10, 2020 10:07 pm

individual freedom and the constitution
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Re: Trump Supporters: How Can We Bridge the Gap?

Postby Peter Kropotkin » Thu Dec 10, 2020 10:22 pm

phoneutria wrote:individual freedom and the constitution



K: ok, great now give it some context, some meaning... individual freedom
for whom and why and in what context about the constitution?


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Re: Trump Supporters: How Can We Bridge the Gap?

Postby d0rkyd00d » Thu Dec 10, 2020 10:34 pm

phoneutria wrote:individual freedom and the constitution


Thanks for the reply phone. So break this down for a second, because I think if you walked up to somebody who voted for Joe Biden or doesn't support Trump and asked if they believe in "individual freedom and the constitution," I cannot imagine they would say no. Is this not a common ground?
"So long as the people do not care to exercise their freedom, those who wish to tyrannize will do so; for tyrants are active and ardent, and will devote themselves in the name of any number of gods, religious and otherwise, to put shackles upon sleeping men." -Voltaire

"If an opinion contrary to your own makes you angry, that is a sign that you are subconsciously aware of having no good reason for thinking as you do."
-Bertrand Russell
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Re: Trump Supporters: How Can We Bridge the Gap?

Postby phoneutria » Thu Dec 10, 2020 10:39 pm

d0rkyd00d wrote:Also, let me clarify what I mean by most Americans being "on the same team."

By that I mean I believe most of us have gotten fucked over by the same people for the same reasons with the same policies, and it would behoove most who voted for Trump & Biden to align and unite against "oppressive forces."


in my eyes this is already the wrong mindset
even as your attempt to bridge differences
you're still trying to work within that frame of "us vs them"
i'm not a jew in egypt
i live in a free country
there wasn't any fate laid on top of me at birth
preventing me from ever pursuing what i wanted
i am not oppressed
so i am not in the team of the oppressed
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Re: Trump Supporters: How Can We Bridge the Gap?

Postby phoneutria » Thu Dec 10, 2020 10:42 pm

d0rkyd00d wrote:
phoneutria wrote:individual freedom and the constitution


Thanks for the reply phone. So break this down for a second, because I think if you walked up to somebody who voted for Joe Biden or doesn't support Trump and asked if they believe in "individual freedom and the constitution," I cannot imagine they would say no. Is this not a common ground?


yes, until they realize what comes with freedom
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Re: Trump Supporters: How Can We Bridge the Gap?

Postby d0rkyd00d » Thu Dec 10, 2020 10:51 pm

phoneutria wrote:
d0rkyd00d wrote:Also, let me clarify what I mean by most Americans being "on the same team."

By that I mean I believe most of us have gotten fucked over by the same people for the same reasons with the same policies, and it would behoove most who voted for Trump & Biden to align and unite against "oppressive forces."


in my eyes this is already the wrong mindset
even as your attempt to bridge differences
you're still trying to work within that frame of "us vs them"
i'm not a jew in egypt
i live in a free country
there wasn't any fate laid on top of me at birth
preventing me from ever pursuing what i wanted
i am not oppressed
so i am not in the team of the oppressed


But you are concerned that this could potentially change if the wrong leadership is elected, no?
"So long as the people do not care to exercise their freedom, those who wish to tyrannize will do so; for tyrants are active and ardent, and will devote themselves in the name of any number of gods, religious and otherwise, to put shackles upon sleeping men." -Voltaire

"If an opinion contrary to your own makes you angry, that is a sign that you are subconsciously aware of having no good reason for thinking as you do."
-Bertrand Russell
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Re: Trump Supporters: How Can We Bridge the Gap?

Postby obsrvr524 » Thu Dec 10, 2020 10:52 pm

I think the problem is that either the US -
  • 1 - has a constitution,
  • 2 - pretends to have a constitution, or
  • 3 - doesn't have a constitution.

And the population is divided into the groups -
  • A - wants the constitution to be upheld and limit government
  • B - doesn't want the constitution to limit government

Group A believes in situation 1 and abhors situation 2 and 3.
Group B prefers situation 3, struggles with situation 2, and abhors situation 1

Basically it is just Constitutionalism vs Communism but the population isn't allowed to freely learn about or discuss the issue = the problem.
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Re: Trump Supporters: How Can We Bridge the Gap?

Postby Karpel Tunnel » Thu Dec 10, 2020 10:56 pm

Peter Kropotkin wrote:Ok, let us try this... those posters I have mentioned... where is some middle ground
we can meet and discuss matters.... I shall allow you to engage in the discussion
on your terms.... so, do you wish to engage in dialogue that might, might bring
us together?

Kropotkin
Well you could apologize for saying I called for violence against the Left - see the thread with your name in it in Meta. That's be a nice start. You could also go to the thread where you lecture the kids that pardons are an admission of guilt, read my posts, check out the links, and potentially admit that the issue is much more complicated than your incomplete presentation allowed for. I think the evidence actually goes against it being an admission of guilt, but baby steps.

Oh, I'm not on the Right, though I do share with them some important criticisms of liberals and parts of the Left. This is my personal take on where we could start having middle ground, not an answer as to how you and the Right can find common ground. I'll leave that to them to make suggestions. I am also not a Trump supporter, and I have taken shit for that also from the Right here. Which makes this post off-topic in a way. I won't post in this thread again. Pardon the brief tangent.
Last edited by Karpel Tunnel on Thu Dec 10, 2020 11:04 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Trump Supporters: How Can We Bridge the Gap?

Postby d0rkyd00d » Thu Dec 10, 2020 11:04 pm

obsrvr524 wrote:I think the problem is that either the US -
  • 1 - has a constitution,
  • 2 - pretends to have a constitution, or
  • 3 - doesn't have a constitution.

And the population is divided into the groups -
  • A - wants the constitution to be upheld and limit government
  • B - doesn't want the constitution to limit government

Group A believes in situation 1 and abhors situation 2 and 3.
Group B prefers situation 3, struggles with situation 2, and abhors situation 1

Basically it is just Constitutionalism vs Communism but the population isn't allowed to freely learn about or discuss the issue = the problem.


Thanks obsrvr, for taking the time to respond. So if I understand you correctly, what you're getting at here is the idea that the Constitution has been ignored over the past several decades (something once more I don't think many would oppose you on). Which part(s) do you feel have been the most egregiously discarded? And when you say that group B doesn't want the Constitution to limit government, in what way do you feel they want to "take off the reigns" so to speak?
"So long as the people do not care to exercise their freedom, those who wish to tyrannize will do so; for tyrants are active and ardent, and will devote themselves in the name of any number of gods, religious and otherwise, to put shackles upon sleeping men." -Voltaire

"If an opinion contrary to your own makes you angry, that is a sign that you are subconsciously aware of having no good reason for thinking as you do."
-Bertrand Russell
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Re: Trump Supporters: How Can We Bridge the Gap?

Postby phoneutria » Thu Dec 10, 2020 11:12 pm

oh yeah i would also like to state for the record that i am not a trump supporter
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Re: Trump Supporters: How Can We Bridge the Gap?

Postby d0rkyd00d » Thu Dec 10, 2020 11:26 pm

phoneutria wrote:in my eyes this is already the wrong mindset
even as your attempt to bridge differences
you're still trying to work within that frame of "us vs them"
i'm not a jew in egypt
i live in a free country
there wasn't any fate laid on top of me at birth
preventing me from ever pursuing what i wanted
i am not oppressed
so i am not in the team of the oppressed


Would you not agree, phone, that Trump supporters do view the world currently through an "us vs. them" lens, as do opponents of Trump & his supporters? It seems to me a line has been drawn in the sand of sorts, are you saying this is a misperception?
"So long as the people do not care to exercise their freedom, those who wish to tyrannize will do so; for tyrants are active and ardent, and will devote themselves in the name of any number of gods, religious and otherwise, to put shackles upon sleeping men." -Voltaire

"If an opinion contrary to your own makes you angry, that is a sign that you are subconsciously aware of having no good reason for thinking as you do."
-Bertrand Russell
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Re: Trump Supporters: How Can We Bridge the Gap?

Postby Pedro I Rengel » Thu Dec 10, 2020 11:51 pm

From your first thread here (I guess since your return):

sadly, my family and many others have been duped:

Here already you are basically dismissing any possible diverting view. Since your family disagrees with you, they must have been duped. This is part of a wider problem. You may have heard it in the form of criticism of the "safe space" mentality.

How can we bridge any gaps, when already off the bat you do not hold us as people with legitimate views to discuss, but as bots that have been duped?

Then you go on about hate of colored people (an old racist term which I still cannot wrap my head around the fact that academia brought it back and as the "anti-racist" term, that was a nice coup from the racists). But have you asked us? Is this maybe something you are assuming?

And this goes on and on. How can we have a conversation about the issues, when you set us on a lesser being category where you even decide what it is we think?
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Re: Trump Supporters: How Can We Bridge the Gap?

Postby Pedro I Rengel » Thu Dec 10, 2020 11:53 pm

d0rkyd00d wrote:
phoneutria wrote:in my eyes this is already the wrong mindset
even as your attempt to bridge differences
you're still trying to work within that frame of "us vs them"
i'm not a jew in egypt
i live in a free country
there wasn't any fate laid on top of me at birth
preventing me from ever pursuing what i wanted
i am not oppressed
so i am not in the team of the oppressed


Would you not agree, phone, that Trump supporters do view the world currently through an "us vs. them" lens, as do opponents of Trump & his supporters? It seems to me a line has been drawn in the sand of sorts, are you saying this is a misperception?


Maybe the line has been drawn, but I wish you at least allowed yourself to consider that maybe it was you who drew it.
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Re: Trump Supporters: How Can We Bridge the Gap?

Postby obsrvr524 » Thu Dec 10, 2020 11:54 pm

d0rkyd00d wrote:Which part(s) do you feel have been the most egregiously discarded?

I think that discussion is just walking into the cloud without a rain coat - you are just going to get wet and still not be able to see where you are.

d0rkyd00d wrote:And when you say that group B doesn't want the Constitution to limit government, in what way do you feel they want to "take off the reigns" so to speak?

They want and connive to get total authority - no limits at all - absolute supremacy = socialism/communism.

In a way your first question is related to your second question.

For example -
A liberal "university" rejects discussion of any good relating to conserving constitutional mandates. That is their "bubble of belief" that they support by rejecting any dissenters. That is their "ego". And so they spread that ego by instilling the same egocentric bias against the opposition - fanaticism (people easily triggered to reject the slightest sign of the wrong narrative - the wrong belief) - ANTIFA, BLM.

A conservative "university" can't reject discussion without destroying its own beliefs but still weights its judgements on students - degrading or rejecting those too liberal. That is their "ego" - more tolerant but still a self-sustaining bubble of belief.

The lack of free discussion without impugning the participants is what maintains the separation of those bubbles - those egos. So that becomes a "First Amendment" issue. Interestingly the first cause of division happens to be also handled by the First Amendment (no doubt without a lack of wisdom somewhere). So that largely answers your first question but perhaps not definitively.

Socialism/Communism must at all times oppress true free speech (just look at what MSM and social media are doing). They must maintain their bubble of belief - without it they collapse. That is fine unless you propose actual democracy where truth must be allowed into the population - else the authority is not distributed and there is not an actual democracy - at best merely a pretense because the people don't know how much they are being manipulated.

But this entire post would not be allowed in one bubble yet allowed in the other - maintaining the division.

When they claim that they want to unify is one of the only times they are actually telling the truth. They want everyone to come into their bubble with no exceptions - no division - no independent thought - total unity to allow for total control and supremacy.

When the US Constitution says "God given rights" it means merely rights that are not given by man and thus cannot be taken by man - any man (or group of men). It isn't actually a religious statement. It is more of a rejection of the authority of men. And socialists/communists cannot tolerate that.


Trump supporters are those who see that distinction and believe (with good reason) that Mr Trump is a constitutionalist and adverse to (out right belligerently opposed to) socialist supreme authority.

Anti-Trump supporters merely hate Mr Trump due to those liberal bubbles producing mindless rejection of anything outside their bubble. Most are not concerned about a constitution or not. They just hate and don't really know why - hypnotized from they know not where or how.


So addressing the original OP -
They must either -
  • Un-hypnotize the liberals, or
  • Convince (perhaps hypnotize) the constitutionalists into thinking that totalitarianism is better for all

The hypnotize the constitutionalists thing seems to be their aim - controlling all news media, speech, and entertainment - absorb them into the bubble, into the matrix, into the Borg - or just kill them off with a virus or something.

Controlling speech is controlling belief. Americans are now NOT ALLOWED to believe that they stole the election.


From the other side, since liberal billionaires support those liberal universities, Mr Trump should substantially increase government funding to free-speech universities (actual "university") - flood them with it - not to religious conservatives necessarily but to actually provable free-speech universities.

Either way takes time. And it appears there is precious little of that.
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Re: Trump Supporters: How Can We Bridge the Gap?

Postby Urwrongx1000 » Fri Dec 11, 2020 4:09 am

d0rkyd00d wrote:I know my worldview is different from both Trump supporters & opponents in most cases.

I feel that most Americans are actually "on the same team," even though each side views the other as the opposition. I also think it would also require the coordinated effort of these two opposing sides, facing a common enemy, to address and actually resolve the issues in government plaguing America today.

Where do we start?

Here's where the Liberal-Left-Communists should start reconciliation:

1. Admit to domination and complete control over MainStream Media, then break the monopolies including google, facebook, youtube, and twitter. Stop the Censorship, Blacklisting, Spiking, and DOXing. You can stop silencing your opponents, and work together to reestablish Free Speech and the First Amendment. But you won't, so it's a moot point.

2. Admit to Widescale Voter Fraud. Admit that the DNC largely is responsible for cheating in order to gain power and remove President Trump. Only a fair, honest, clear election is valid. Because of the above, harassment, bullying, assaults, the Communist party disallows Americans from contesting voter fraud as it has been presented. The "No Evidence" campaign goes back to step 1. the MSM must be rebuked.

3. Assuming you follow through on #1 and #2, you must Apologize for the Burn-Loot-Murder movement. You must admit culpability and responsibility for Domestic Terrorism unleashed across the United States. You must push for DNCommunist leaders to work it back, apologize, and fix the damages. You must allocate funds to Conservative states and Republican areas.


Without these 3 conditions met, there is no moving "forward" together.
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Re: Trump Supporters: How Can We Bridge the Gap?

Postby Urwrongx1000 » Fri Dec 11, 2020 4:13 am

Realistically,

There will be no bridge. You already burned it and we will not rebuild. You have your truth; we have Our Truth.


You have been "Fact Checked".
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Re: Trump Supporters: How Can We Bridge the Gap?

Postby phoneutria » Fri Dec 11, 2020 4:24 am

d0rkyd00d wrote:
phoneutria wrote:in my eyes this is already the wrong mindset
even as your attempt to bridge differences
you're still trying to work within that frame of "us vs them"
i'm not a jew in egypt
i live in a free country
there wasn't any fate laid on top of me at birth
preventing me from ever pursuing what i wanted
i am not oppressed
so i am not in the team of the oppressed


Would you not agree, phone, that Trump supporters do view the world currently through an "us vs. them" lens, as do opponents of Trump & his supporters? It seems to me a line has been drawn in the sand of sorts, are you saying this is a misperception?


Honestly I don't care because i am talking about you specifically
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Re: Trump Supporters: How Can We Bridge the Gap?

Postby Urwrongx1000 » Fri Dec 11, 2020 4:35 am

You have some gall to steal a US election for Presidency, which is treasonous by the way, and then talk about peace.

Why should half of this country believe anything you have to say, ever again? Answer, no reason, you've already exposed yourselves.
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