Mandatory Vaccines/Restrictions Poll

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Mandatory Vaccines/Restrictions Poll

Postby Karpel Tunnel » Sat Dec 05, 2020 4:06 pm

This is a two part poll:

1) Would you support mandatory vaccines? (you can add conditions that would affect your choice of either yes or no, but please answer clearly with a yes or no)

2) Would you support proof of vaccination requirements for things like travel, work in companies/government, schools (here adding vaccinations for current virus outbreaks) or other types of activity/participation?
If yes, please say what activities/participation you would support restrictions based on lack of proof of vaccination.

As I mentioned in another thread a number of sources are saying/claiming that more pandemics are on the way and soon or relatively soon. So, having a position on this might be a good idea.
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Re: Mandatory Vaccines/Restrictions Poll

Postby Ecmandu » Sat Dec 05, 2020 5:53 pm

Well, you know...

Healthcare workers are on the front line of the vaccines ... if we fuck that one up, there’s no going back. What 12 years in med school, for every doctor on earth, and the vaccines are a conspiracy...

Talk about shooting yourself in the proverbial foot.

If the elites are that stupid, they deserve everything coming to them.
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Re: Mandatory Vaccines/Restrictions Poll

Postby Mithus » Sat Dec 05, 2020 6:53 pm

1) NO !!!
2) NO !!!

In 46% of the tested people, the vaccine had serious side effects: Fever and a decrease in white blood cells (neutropenia), which could mean that the vaccine could directly attack the immune system. 46%, this is no trivial matter.

The Covid19 vaccine is a completely new type of vaccine. Normally, a vaccination involves the introduction of viruses into the body, against which the body then builds up antibodies. In this case, however, it is a genetic vaccine that introduces parts of the genetic information of the virus into the body. This manipulates the genetic processes in our cells.

The "fastest" vaccine that came on the market was tested for 5 years. And only then you might call a vaccinations safe.

..... panta rhei .............................................
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Re: Mandatory Vaccines/Restrictions Poll

Postby obsrvr524 » Sat Dec 05, 2020 7:09 pm

I wouldn't normally participate in this kind of poll but for sake of being an amicus curiae.
Karpel Tunnel wrote:This is a two part poll:

1) Would you support mandatory vaccines? (you can add conditions that would affect your choice of either yes or no, but please answer clearly with a yes or no)

No.

Karpel Tunnel wrote:2) Would you support proof of vaccination requirements for things like travel, work in companies/government, schools (here adding vaccinations for current virus outbreaks) or other types of activity/participation?

No.

Karpel Tunnel wrote:If yes, please say what activities/participation you would support restrictions based on lack of proof of vaccination.

As I mentioned in another thread a number of sources are saying/claiming that more pandemics are on the way and soon or relatively soon. So, having a position on this might be a good idea.

This is the kind of thing that requires someone smarter than me to deal with. There needs to be vaccines available. There needs to be trust that the vaccines are only what they are proclaimed to be. Right now neither of those are evident.

So what I think is that those two things must be established before any mandates are put in place. I could guess as to how to get that done but that wasn't the poll question and I would only be guessing anyway.

If a mandate is made before those two needs are met - trouble - possibly very very serious trouble.

Don't do it until you know that it succeeds.

The US FDA doesn't allow (supposedly) ANY medication into the market until it has proven with substantial evidence that the medication helps and most importantly doesn't hurt even more.

That strategy should apply to government as well as individual choices. How is government going to ensure that its policies and mandates are going to do more good than harm regardless of what kind of policies they are? They are even divided as to their own goal in everything they do. Someone smart needs to work that out.

How are they going to encourage the citizenry to be accepting the same strategy in not taking any medication until they personally know that what they are doing to themselves is going to do more good than harm? Half of the government doesn't even want them to use the same strategy. Again someone smarter than me is going to have to work that one out.

What is going on right now is so manipulative there can be no trusting of what anyone is advertising as "the science" or even as "God's will". But that doesn't stop them from trying. The distrust merely grows. So, having failed at doing things right, they resort to just overriding consent and using force - "if they can't win legitimately they cheat".

So in light of not having a solution for the real needs, I say don't act until you/they do. If the threat is too great, make your best guess and hope you didn't do more harm than good.
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Re: Mandatory Vaccines/Restrictions Poll

Postby iambiguous » Sat Dec 05, 2020 8:31 pm

I'm sorry, but Karpel Tunnel's "troll" would like to make a few points...


The most gut wrenching aspect of questions like this revolves for me around children.

It's one thing to argue that adults ought to be free to choose to be or not to be vaccinated. They are at least able to make a more or less informed choice.

But what about the kids? When should parents be permitted to gamble with their lives as well? When is it reasonable for the state/government to intervene and start mandating behavior here.

Think of those religious fanatics that refuse to take their children to doctors and hospitals even when seriously ill because they put everything in the hands of God.

This part: https://youtu.be/kKQkUcJioxU

And then the point I raise in regard to government and disease here: https://www.ilovephilosophy.com/viewtop ... 8&t=196405

In other words,

...imagine if the HIV AIDS virus was able to be transmitted to others just as easily [and stealthily] as the coronavirus. You didn't have to copulate with someone or share dope needles with them to be infected. No, you only had to be in the same room with them when they sneezed or touched a doorknob that they touched. And no vaccine in sight.

What disease in what set of circumstances would it take to make you question your own fanatical assumptions that everything revolves around "me, myself and I"?


In other words, if covid-19 were as virulent and readily transmitted as HIV and a vaccine was created for it, how might that alter your view about getting one?
He was like a man who wanted to change all; and could not; so burned with his impotence; and had only me, an infinitely small microcosm to convert or detest. John Fowles

Start here: viewtopic.php?f=1&t=176529
Then here: viewtopic.php?f=15&t=185296
And here: viewtopic.php?f=1&t=194382
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Re: Mandatory Vaccines/Restrictions Poll

Postby obsrvr524 » Sat Dec 05, 2020 8:51 pm

iambiguous wrote:But what about the kids? When should parents be permitted to gamble with their lives as well? When is it reasonable for the state/government to intervene and start mandating behavior here.

It has always been the case, and no different in this case, that if it can be proven that harm has been done to a child by a person that person is criminally liable. It doesn't matter if it was done for religious reasons, government policy reasons, or just personal bad actions.

So far, the greater evidence is that children suffer extremely little from the disease and no evidence at all concerning the vaccine yet. And it is not even proposed that children take the vaccine - YET.

And it is a different question than the poll question (not at all surprised coming from you).
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Re: Mandatory Vaccines/Restrictions Poll

Postby iambiguous » Sat Dec 05, 2020 9:29 pm

obsrvr524 wrote:
iambiguous wrote:But what about the kids? When should parents be permitted to gamble with their lives as well? When is it reasonable for the state/government to intervene and start mandating behavior here.

It has always been the case, and no different in this case, that if it can be proven that harm has been done to a child by a person that person is criminally liable. It doesn't matter if it was done for religious reasons, government policy reasons, or just personal bad actions.

So far, the greater evidence is that children suffer extremely little from the disease and no evidence at all concerning the vaccine yet. And it is not even proposed that children take the vaccine - YET.


Yes, it will take longer for children -- https://www.washingtonpost.com/health/2 ... ine-delay/ -- but eventually parents and governments around the globe are going to have to confront state policies aimed at making it mandatory for children to get the vaccine.

On the other hand, who gets to decide when the greater harm is either in vaccinating or not vaccinating children against it?

Is there a frame of mind here that is not embedded in one or another "political prejudice"?

And what if in regard to the next pandemic to come down the pike, children especially were vulnerable? And what if covid-19 were more akin to HIV...and far more able to be transmitted. Would that obligate the government to be more demanding in regard to masks and social distancing and vaccines?

obsrvr524 wrote:
And it is a different question than the poll question (not at all surprised coming from you).


Yeah, sure, make this all about the points that I raise here "derailing the thread".
He was like a man who wanted to change all; and could not; so burned with his impotence; and had only me, an infinitely small microcosm to convert or detest. John Fowles

Start here: viewtopic.php?f=1&t=176529
Then here: viewtopic.php?f=15&t=185296
And here: viewtopic.php?f=1&t=194382
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Re: Mandatory Vaccines/Restrictions Poll

Postby MagsJ » Sat Dec 05, 2020 9:54 pm

_
No, and No!

My reasons? Many have known about the damage that modern vaccines have been doing for years, so only those that are into suicide will take it and those supporting it, into murder.
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Re: Mandatory Vaccines/Restrictions Poll

Postby Zero_Sum » Sat Dec 05, 2020 10:20 pm

I would rather live in a wilderness cabin like Ted Kaczynski than take the vaccine. So, no....

Make that shit mandatory I simply vanish and disappear by my own choosing.
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Re: Mandatory Vaccines/Restrictions Poll

Postby obsrvr524 » Sat Dec 05, 2020 10:53 pm

iambiguous wrote:who gets to decide when the greater harm is either in vaccinating or not vaccinating children against it?

Again a change of topic and already addressed in another thread - to you specifically.

iambiguous wrote:Is there a frame of mind here that is not embedded in one or another "political prejudice"?

How would you ever know? To you no matter what anyone says, you interpret into a bias and then go on and on about something off topic. Apparently you have no capacity to comprehend logic. So what's the point.
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Re: Mandatory Vaccines/Restrictions Poll

Postby WendyDarling » Sun Dec 06, 2020 4:47 am

1) Nooooooo!
2) Noooooooooooooooo!
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Re: Mandatory Vaccines/Restrictions Poll

Postby Urwrongx1000 » Sun Dec 06, 2020 5:07 am

I will not get a vaccine, even if it costs me my job.
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Re: Mandatory Vaccines/Restrictions Poll

Postby WendyDarling » Sun Dec 06, 2020 5:28 am

Urwrongx1000 wrote:I will not get a vaccine, even if it costs me my job.

The commies may not make the vaccines mandatory by law but will use corporations to do their dirty work, companies will require vaccines similar with the mask mandates to enter most places. Then the governments cannot be blamed for anyones exclusion from enjoying a normal life.
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Re: Mandatory Vaccines/Restrictions Poll

Postby Mad Man P » Sun Dec 06, 2020 11:33 am

Karpel Tunnel wrote:1) Would you support mandatory vaccines? (you can add conditions that would affect your choice of either yes or no, but please answer clearly with a yes or no)


Yes on the condition that the vaccine is thoroughly tested and proven to work with no long term complications.
In the context in which you're asking this, the answer is a resounding NO.
Some rushed drug that we hope helps against a new virus, that may turn out to be far worse in the long run (unlikely as that may be) should never be forced on anyone.
But anti-vaxxers that want to risk bringing back the black death because they are too uneducated, I don't think should be permitted to incubate the next strain of plague to kill the rest of us, nevermind their own kids.

2) Would you support proof of vaccination requirements for things like travel, work in companies/government, schools (here adding vaccinations for current virus outbreaks) or other types of activity/participation?
If yes, please say what activities/participation you would support restrictions based on lack of proof of vaccination.


Erm no... what would be the point?
The only risk someone poses to others by being a carrier (in a scenario where the others are successfully vaccinated) is permitting the virus to mutate and become a strain for which there is no vaccine.
THAT risk is not mitigated by any measure shy of quarantine or forcing the vaccine on that person...
If not, they will infect one of the "vaccinated" people in some other venue and then this new strain will be spread by people thinking they are safe, because they got vaccinated.
There are no stupid questions, just stupid people.
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Re: Mandatory Vaccines/Restrictions Poll

Postby Karpel Tunnel » Sun Dec 06, 2020 12:43 pm

Since I asked the question, I decided it would read all posts depite any foe categorizing I've done.

Everyone who directly answered the questions so far answered NO to both questions. I assume that one participant, possibly two, would answer yes to one or both, but they didn't directly answer or were off topic.
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Re: Mandatory Vaccines/Restrictions Poll

Postby Urwrongx1000 » Sun Dec 06, 2020 1:03 pm

WendyDarling wrote:The commies may not make the vaccines mandatory by law but will use corporations to do their dirty work, companies will require vaccines similar with the mask mandates to enter most places. Then the governments cannot be blamed for anyones exclusion from enjoying a normal life.

That's what I expect.
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Re: Mandatory Vaccines/Restrictions Poll

Postby Zero_Sum » Sun Dec 06, 2020 7:54 pm

Urwrongx1000 wrote:I will not get a vaccine, even if it costs me my job.


Same.
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Re: Mandatory Vaccines/Restrictions Poll

Postby Zero_Sum » Sun Dec 06, 2020 8:02 pm

It's very interesting, people against mandatory vaccines seems to be a position taken by people of a variety of different political, philosophical, and social viewpoints, it may very well be the only thing in 2020 going into 2021 that a majority of people can actually agree upon. Very interesting.
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Re: Mandatory Vaccines/Restrictions Poll

Postby Gloominary » Sun Dec 06, 2020 8:11 pm

Zero_Sum wrote:
Urwrongx1000 wrote:I will not get a vaccine, even if it costs me my job.


Same.

Ditto
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Re: Mandatory Vaccines/Restrictions Poll

Postby obsrvr524 » Sun Dec 06, 2020 8:20 pm

Keep in mind that destroying the entire US economy (joblessness), culture, and all dissenters is the goal. That includes euthanasia of the old (why do you think Gov Cuomo sent those COVID patients into the elderly care homes and now insists on people staying in their homes where the science says most transmission occurs?).

People not having jobs - for ANY reason - is a part of the intention.

A question to James years ago (I don't remember which board) was whether unemployment would destabilize a nation. His immediate response -
"If you want to destroy a nation, just create mass unemployment, sit back and watch."
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Re: Mandatory Vaccines/Restrictions Poll

Postby MagsJ » Sun Dec 06, 2020 8:34 pm

_
..so damned if You do, damned if you don’t?

There’s a solution for that!
The possibility of anything we can imagine existing is endless and infinite.. - MagsJ
I haven't got the time to spend the time reading something that is telling me nothing, as I will never be able to get back that time, and I may need it for something at some point in time.. Huh! - MagsJ
You’re suggestions and I, just simply don’t mix.. like oil on water, or a really bad DJ - MagsJ
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Re: Mandatory Vaccines/Restrictions Poll

Postby obsrvr524 » Sun Dec 06, 2020 8:37 pm

MagsJ wrote:_
..so damned if You do, damned if you don’t?

There’s a solution for that!

Yes. And the solution you reference?
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Re: Mandatory Vaccines/Restrictions Poll

Postby iambiguous » Sun Dec 06, 2020 8:39 pm

Zero_Sum wrote:
Urwrongx1000 wrote:I will not get a vaccine, even if it costs me my job.


Same.



On the other hand, this is, perhaps, why we have this thing: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Darwin_Awards 8)
He was like a man who wanted to change all; and could not; so burned with his impotence; and had only me, an infinitely small microcosm to convert or detest. John Fowles

Start here: viewtopic.php?f=1&t=176529
Then here: viewtopic.php?f=15&t=185296
And here: viewtopic.php?f=1&t=194382
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Re: Mandatory Vaccines/Restrictions Poll

Postby MagsJ » Sun Dec 06, 2020 8:41 pm

obsrvr524 wrote:
MagsJ wrote:_
..so damned if You do, damned if you don’t?

There’s a solution for that!

Yes. And the solution you reference?

Oh my god! another inquiry I don’t feel at liberty to answer, on an open forum.
The possibility of anything we can imagine existing is endless and infinite.. - MagsJ
I haven't got the time to spend the time reading something that is telling me nothing, as I will never be able to get back that time, and I may need it for something at some point in time.. Huh! - MagsJ
You’re suggestions and I, just simply don’t mix.. like oil on water, or a really bad DJ - MagsJ
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Re: Mandatory Vaccines/Restrictions Poll

Postby iambiguous » Sun Dec 06, 2020 8:46 pm

Gloominary wrote:
Zero_Sum wrote:
Urwrongx1000 wrote:I will not get a vaccine, even if it costs me my job.


Same.

Ditto


On the other hand, this is, perhaps, why we have this thing: https://darwinawards.com/

Best captured in regard to the human species itself, perhaps again, here: https://youtu.be/sP2tUW0HDHA

:wink:
He was like a man who wanted to change all; and could not; so burned with his impotence; and had only me, an infinitely small microcosm to convert or detest. John Fowles

Start here: viewtopic.php?f=1&t=176529
Then here: viewtopic.php?f=15&t=185296
And here: viewtopic.php?f=1&t=194382
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