In the year 2030

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Re: In the year 2030

Postby Gloominary » Mon Nov 30, 2020 1:59 pm

Urwrongx1000 wrote:I guess it may have been unintentional, but once people reacted with fear, and showed how vulnerable, mentally and spiritually weak Western Civilization has become, the predators pounced on this, once they smelled and tasted the blood. Now the weakness and rot is uncovered, and few people have yet to wake up. It maybe too late, in many ways. This is why I've called for retreat to fortified positions. The West has grown very weak due to its decadence since the 1970s. That is far too long to grow soft and fat.

The West needs to practice Lent and go back to practicing Fasting, willing starvation.

I'm not sure how many Canadians and Americans believe Covid is nondeadly or less deadly than they're claiming, which's the part of the conspiracy I tend to focus on, rather than on where it came from if it exists, but nonetheless unfortunately the vast majority of people are complying with the ordinances where I live.
Those that comply may as well believe in it, I'm one of the few who does not comply.
I've never worn a mask and probably never will for the foreseeable future, and I most definitely will never take a vaxx, I'd much rather do things to people in power I won't mention online.
I don't think most people care much about freedom and democracy.
They worship big brother, big pharma and big tech.

Never mind communism, our new religion is germaphobia and hypochondria, you could create a tyranny around it alone, you wouldn't even need interventions in strictly fiscal, cultural or social matters.
This scamdemic gives them the power to invade our privacy, invade our homes, our bodies, fine us, kidnap us and our children, lock us down, select which businesses and social functions are permissible, sterilize us and possibly even murder us, putting our lungs on deadly vents under the guise of saving us from Covid.
I know medical tyranny is only one aspect of what they have in store for us, yet look what they've been able to accomplish with it alone in comparison to climate change, which never really caught on, despite 3 or so decades of them trying to shove it down our throats.

People are really into this thing, washing and sanitizing dozens of times a day, wearing your mask, keeping distance, they love it, and most people who hate it comply out of fear of the socioeconomic consequences.
They're like dogs, fetch, rollover, surrender your freedom now or die, no questions asked.
You don't need to question, see, the corrupt politicians put a health expert up there, health experts get to decide how much freedom we're allowed, we have no say in the matter, that's how democracy works, right?
And if they decide we can't be allowed more freedom than they had in Nazi Germany or communist China, so be it, it's for our own good.

Why would the elite ever stop this?
Just incrementally give more power to the health experts until we're powerless.
They won't stop until people stand up for themselves.
Hell Justin Trudeau used the emergency powers he seized to ban assault rifles.
He wasn't suppose to use them for nonmedical issues but he did.
But everything is a public health issue in a roundabout way, right?
Antifa and BLM were allowed to burn businesses down because police brutality is a public health issue, of course, and attending a religious or social gathering for your spiritual and psychological wellbeing isn't.
And the guys fighting for our freedom are fascists, it all makes sense.
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Re: In the year 2030

Postby Karpel Tunnel » Mon Nov 30, 2020 2:24 pm

this is a general response to your last post Gloominary:

I think the issue gets polarized/presented as binary and this makes it easy for everyone to not really have a discussion and to think the others are morons or evil. I like your posts generally because you are willing to present a strong case and have strong concerns without necessarily thinking that every single thing is as the most extreme conspiracy issue says it is. People on both sides (and really there should be many, many sides) often feel like they MUSt deny any point made by any on the opposing team. For example, the virus is not dangerous, but it was made intentionally, no one extra is dying, the reason it was made was for the precise purposes of - ending cash, controlling movement, vaccinating everyone (and the vaccines will be extremely dangerous) and so on. IOW if there is a problem, it is the totally controlled perfectly planned every step of the way conspiracy and everything in MSM is a lie. The anti-conspiracy theorists take the complete opposite position. It was a normally occuring virus, no one planned anything, all the steps being taken are rational and the best ones, no one is using this situation opportunistically, all the statistics in the MSM are correct, no one making any sense is marginalized or censored and so on.

This makes everyone clamp down hard and deny any validity to ANY point made by people they disagree with. Which is terrible for world communication.

For example:

Let's say the disease was purely accidental and had nothing to do with the facility in Wuhan testing corona viruses on bats that had security problems and a whisteblower now disappeared and funding from Fauci. I can't prove that it had anything to do with that facility and in an important sense it does not matter in relation to many issues. For example, 9/11. one does not have to think that was a conspiracy to consider that facets of the military industrial complex saw it as and used it as an opportunity to get more control of us. Openly via the Patriot Act and behind the scenes via the types of radical surveillance that for example got revealed by Snowdon.

Most of the people here who are anti-conspiracy theorists, seem to give not the least bit of concern to the possibility that Covid will be used by certain factions to change things in directions even most of the Left and Right would agree are bad directions. Nor can they seem to consider that factions might be skewing the numbers. To what degree is another issue. But a hard line in the sand is made. The disease is real, all measures being taken and planned are of good intent, the information about the numbers is generally correct, and so on.

You must not be concerned about how this situation may be used by fascist elements because then you are conspiracy theorist, even though we have non-controversial examples from history where this happens.

It's like a marriage where both people think that if they concede anything, show the slightest consideration of any point made or any concern by the other partner might be valid and should not be mocked out of hand, then you are handing your wife or husband complete power in the relationship forever.

This is fucked up in both the marriage and public debate and there is tremendous fear being denied here. I am on the conspiracy theorist end of course, but I see this pattern on both sides, even 'my own'. Any point not accepted by an opponent means they are completely stupid or evil.

This just not reflect reality. We do not have obvious demonstrable proof of everything. No one does. Which is why conspiracies can be successful but also why sometimes people assume conspiracy where there isn't one. It is not like we have transparent power brokers and independent media with great access and resources. All the information everyone is getting is filtered and verification can be extremely complicated.

So people just assume that their sources are corrent and the case is made. Like here's the link, there, duh proven. Or, here's what is being said by the experts, there, duh. Accept the entire most extreme position now or you can't read/listen.

Um, no.

It's a problem for the individual, but it is also a problem in general. Because it means that potential alliances cannot form. Like there could be and I thinkt here should be a large faction that thinks the general MSM version of Covid is corrent BUTTTTTTTT.....

at the same time they are concerned that the situation will be used by certain elements of power to make the world less deomcratic and give much more potential control of individuals to the hands of the few.

That was definitely the case in 9/11. Only a small minority at the time thought it was a conspiracy (including me) but a lot of people, especially after several months, became concerned about how the situation was being used. You don't have to believe the conspiracy to worry about how an event can be used.

But now, with Covid, there is no faction that does not believe there is a conspiracy at the same time is extremely concerned about how the disease will be used.

And that is a fucking shame.
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Re: In the year 2030

Postby Gloominary » Mon Nov 30, 2020 6:02 pm

promethean75 wrote:Here's the thing though. Marxist thought is such a gargantuan undertaking that it is going to be bound by history to fail several times over before it's ever gotten right. What we'll go through is about four of five hundred years of experimental attempts at it by various folks... which will then dreadfully fail... meanwhile we have to deal with the no scotsman fallacy to keep the yapping right wingers off our leg. It really is legit exhausting and just one of those things you gotta wait out and hunker on down.

You really want communism?
You want to live in a world where there's no privacy or private property at all?
Where even the bed you're sleeping in and the clothes you're wearing aren't yours?
You leave the residential area, return later to find someone else sleeping in the bed you slept in?
You give your dirty clothes to the guys at the laundromat to be washed, and you may never see them again, but hey they hand you clean clothes that look just like the ones you were wearing, except perhaps some of the colors and patterns are a bit different?
Where almost everything is produced by a handful of state corporations?
Where the state has near total control over the economy, and presumably over your mind and body too?
And it's a world state, so all power lies in just a few hands?
Ever hear the expression: 'don't put all your eggs in 1 basket'?
I can understanding wanting some state intervention, but total?
And how long do you expect such a state to remain democratic, what's keeping it from sliding into dictatorship if it's not one to begin with, or is democracy not important to you?

There's reasons why we have a constitution, separation of powers and states' rights.
Maybe we need a few more positive rights, but we need negative rights and rights in general.
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Re: In the year 2030

Postby Gloominary » Wed Dec 02, 2020 6:54 pm

Karpel Tunnel wrote:this is a general response to your last post Gloominary:

I think the issue gets polarized/presented as binary and this makes it easy for everyone to not really have a discussion and to think the others are morons or evil. I like your posts generally because you are willing to present a strong case and have strong concerns without necessarily thinking that every single thing is as the most extreme conspiracy issue says it is. People on both sides (and really there should be many, many sides) often feel like they MUSt deny any point made by any on the opposing team. For example, the virus is not dangerous, but it was made intentionally, no one extra is dying, the reason it was made was for the precise purposes of - ending cash, controlling movement, vaccinating everyone (and the vaccines will be extremely dangerous) and so on. IOW if there is a problem, it is the totally controlled perfectly planned every step of the way conspiracy and everything in MSM is a lie. The anti-conspiracy theorists take the complete opposite position. It was a normally occuring virus, no one planned anything, all the steps being taken are rational and the best ones, no one is using this situation opportunistically, all the statistics in the MSM are correct, no one making any sense is marginalized or censored and so on.

This makes everyone clamp down hard and deny any validity to ANY point made by people they disagree with. Which is terrible for world communication.

For example:

Let's say the disease was purely accidental and had nothing to do with the facility in Wuhan testing corona viruses on bats that had security problems and a whisteblower now disappeared and funding from Fauci. I can't prove that it had anything to do with that facility and in an important sense it does not matter in relation to many issues. For example, 9/11. one does not have to think that was a conspiracy to consider that facets of the military industrial complex saw it as and used it as an opportunity to get more control of us. Openly via the Patriot Act and behind the scenes via the types of radical surveillance that for example got revealed by Snowdon.

Most of the people here who are anti-conspiracy theorists, seem to give not the least bit of concern to the possibility that Covid will be used by certain factions to change things in directions even most of the Left and Right would agree are bad directions. Nor can they seem to consider that factions might be skewing the numbers. To what degree is another issue. But a hard line in the sand is made. The disease is real, all measures being taken and planned are of good intent, the information about the numbers is generally correct, and so on.

You must not be concerned about how this situation may be used by fascist elements because then you are conspiracy theorist, even though we have non-controversial examples from history where this happens.

It's like a marriage where both people think that if they concede anything, show the slightest consideration of any point made or any concern by the other partner might be valid and should not be mocked out of hand, then you are handing your wife or husband complete power in the relationship forever.

This is fucked up in both the marriage and public debate and there is tremendous fear being denied here. I am on the conspiracy theorist end of course, but I see this pattern on both sides, even 'my own'. Any point not accepted by an opponent means they are completely stupid or evil.

This just not reflect reality. We do not have obvious demonstrable proof of everything. No one does. Which is why conspiracies can be successful but also why sometimes people assume conspiracy where there isn't one. It is not like we have transparent power brokers and independent media with great access and resources. All the information everyone is getting is filtered and verification can be extremely complicated.

So people just assume that their sources are corrent and the case is made. Like here's the link, there, duh proven. Or, here's what is being said by the experts, there, duh. Accept the entire most extreme position now or you can't read/listen.

Um, no.

It's a problem for the individual, but it is also a problem in general. Because it means that potential alliances cannot form. Like there could be and I thinkt here should be a large faction that thinks the general MSM version of Covid is corrent BUTTTTTTTT.....

at the same time they are concerned that the situation will be used by certain elements of power to make the world less deomcratic and give much more potential control of individuals to the hands of the few.

That was definitely the case in 9/11. Only a small minority at the time thought it was a conspiracy (including me) but a lot of people, especially after several months, became concerned about how the situation was being used. You don't have to believe the conspiracy to worry about how an event can be used.

But now, with Covid, there is no faction that does not believe there is a conspiracy at the same time is extremely concerned about how the disease will be used.

And that is a fucking shame.

I understand where you're coming from.

There is room for more than two positions on this issue like most issues.
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Re: In the year 2030

Postby Gloominary » Wed Dec 02, 2020 6:59 pm

And I like your posts too.

Sometimes I'm more nuanced than others.

I'm nuancedly (un)nuanced and flexibly (in)flexible, it depends on the topic.
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Re: In the year 2030

Postby Zero_Sum » Wed Dec 02, 2020 9:50 pm

"You'll own nothing, live in a community pod residence, take your yearly [Covid]vaccines, eat bugs [environmentally friendly], and you'll be happy." - Great Reset

"All malcontents, please report to your local reeducation camps or be shot on sight. Failure to comply is not optional or recommended."

"In other news, the domestic terrorist known as the 'Joker' has struck again destroying the local Covid19 facility, if you seen the painted face man anywhere please report to the local authorities." - Ministry Of Truth year 2025
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Re: In the year 2030

Postby Gloominary » Thu Dec 03, 2020 12:07 am

Zero_Sum wrote:"You'll own nothing, live in a community pod residence, take your yearly [Covid]vaccines, eat bugs [environmentally friendly], and you'll be happy." - Great Reset

"All malcontents, please report to your local reeducation camps or be shot on sight. Failure to comply is not optional or recommended."

"In other news, the domestic terrorist known as the 'Joker' has struck again destroying the local Covid19 facility, if you seen the painted face man anywhere please report to the local authorities." - Ministry Of Truth year 2025

Hey Mr. J, sounds like you're keeping well.
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Re: In the year 2030

Postby Zero_Sum » Thu Dec 03, 2020 9:20 am

Gloominary wrote:Hey Mr. J, sounds like you're keeping well.


The entire world is on the verge of chaos, war, social upheaval, revolution, strife, and massive tyranny of the likes that is unparalleled to the rest of human history, what's not to like? Very exciting times we live in, it really activates my almonds.

Got to say, I just can't wait to see what happens next given this whole ridiculous or absurd year of ours. What's going to happen next? :lol:

I'm just over here you know, waiting for that first huge domino to be pushed down anticipating the chain reaction of events that follows shortly afterwards.
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Re: In the year 2030

Postby Gloominary » Thu Dec 03, 2020 12:15 pm

Zero_Sum wrote:
Gloominary wrote:Hey Mr. J, sounds like you're keeping well.


The entire world is on the verge of chaos, war, social upheaval, revolution, strife, and massive tyranny of the likes that is unparalleled to the rest of human history, what's not to like? Very exciting times we live in, it really activates my almonds.

Got to say, I just can't wait to see what happens next given this whole ridiculous or absurd year of ours. What's going to happen next? :lol:

I'm just over here you know, waiting for that first huge domino to be pushed down anticipating the chain reaction of events that follows shortly afterwards.

Yea exciting times, makes 01, 03 and 07-08 seem really boring by comparison.
We're facing multiple crises simultaneously.
A fake medical crisis.
A real economic crisis far worse than 07-08.
A fake racial crisis.
And a real political crisis, especially in the US but allover.
We're at a crossroads, the globalists have pushed the reset button, they want a new normal and social contract, but they won't get it without a fight, there's going to be some push back.
We're at the dawn of a new era now.
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Re: In the year 2030

Postby Gloominary » Thu Dec 03, 2020 1:54 pm

Gloominary wrote:

So in this new world, only the rich will have cars and meat.
See that's what communism in practice is.
A two-tiered, neo-feudal society.
The 99-99.9% will eat bugs, fake meat, recycled shit and soylent green.
They'll eat toxic, nutrient deficient GMOs while being involuntarily pumped full of soft kill pharmaceuticals to reduce their numbers.
They'll be about equally dirt poor, they won't have any freedom, privacy or private property, while the 1-0.1% will be filthy rich, they'll have a lot of freedom, privacy and private property.
The 99% who manage to survive and procreate will be genetically modified to be more servile.
Those who opt out will live off the grid, underground, on the outskirts of the metropolises or in the countryside, forming little self-sustaining communities.
This isn't just science fiction, this's well within the realm of possibility, the globalists at the WEF and other international organizations are openly taking about and implementing this shit, but of course they have to try to present it in a positive light, they're telling you this new way of life will ultimately be healthy for you, but that you'll have to make some sacrifices for the greater good and the good of the planet.
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Re: In the year 2030

Postby Gloominary » Thu Dec 03, 2020 2:20 pm

I need to take a little break from this forum soon.

I'll post more articles and videos on this subject in this thread in the future.
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Re: In the year 2030

Postby Zero_Sum » Thu Dec 03, 2020 6:24 pm

The super elite wealthy of the world are not politically aligned to any particular ideology except that which enriches themselves and gives them more power. It's as simple as that. What they do is prey upon the political left and right against each other to further their own interests which is a world unto themselves.
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Re: In the year 2030

Postby Gloominary » Thu Dec 03, 2020 10:50 pm

The totalitarian left suits the modern financial elite better than the totalitarian right, altho they've used aspects of rightwing authoritarianism too when it suited them: corporatism, the fake war on drugs and terror...
Gradually they're eliminating all traces of rightwing authoritarianism and moving into a strictly leftwing form: communism, globalism, misandry, reverse racism, transsexualism, climate change theory, germaphobia/hypochondria, Malthusianism, scientism, technocracy, transhumanism...
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Re: In the year 2030

Postby Gloominary » Sat Dec 05, 2020 10:02 am

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Re: In the year 2030

Postby Karpel Tunnel » Sat Dec 05, 2020 12:02 pm

Gloominary wrote:The totalitarian left suits the modern financial elite better than the totalitarian right, altho they've used aspects of rightwing authoritarianism too when it suited them: corporatism, the fake war on drugs and terror...
Gradually they're eliminating all traces of rightwing authoritarianism and moving into a strictly leftwing form: communism, globalism, misandry, reverse racism, transsexualism, climate change theory, germaphobia/hypochondria, Malthusianism, scientism, technocracy, transhumanism...
Starting from the end, I think transhumanism is definitely a fantasy (being made real) on the right just as much as the left. I don't see the people drawn to that as coming primarily from the Left. In fact the nature, organic food end of the left has an instinctual revulsion for it. Though the Left is definitely persuaded by this also. And technocrats are well loved by the right also. I'd need to see some compelling evidence that the Right in general has not found them a long term ally and hope of power, etc. There are elements of both the right and left who are critical of technocratic solutions to everything, but only factions on each side. The vast bulk of both love those guys. In fact I have long chastised the right for being conservative about social change but not willing to be critical of technologically driven change. Of course there are exceptions, but precisely since I was seeing, here for example, people criticizing rapid changes in society via social norms being challenged not concerned about the changes in social norms caused by technological changes. And I rarely got any takers. Now the people here have changed somewhat and the more conspiracy theorist end of the Right has greater sway. That group does look at technocracy problems, which is great. But the bulk of the right, I think they want to toys just like the left. The left may imbue them with idealism, but the Right happily scarfs them up for individual power, hedonism and also fantasies of the great future.

Globalism is tricky. The Left Idealism certainly pushes for that. But the Right's implicit world domination has also been pushing for this, often as part of corporatism. The corporations are the first great globalists (the first ones being things like the East India Trading Company and the like) These were parts of nations, though really empires, and in the end they did not care about, say, England, just as Rome, though before Italy, was never going to be Italian. They are swallowing the world, and where they have control it can't be democracy, since these are hierarchical organizations. Free Trade agreements pushed by the corporations are anti-national, anti-democratic and for a while they may serve the parent country, but not after. So, yes, you hear more anti-globalist stuff on the right, but implicitly, since they vote corporate lines and Wall st. lines, they support the corporatization and financialization of the whole world. They may not get that this is globalism, but they are supporting it.

Transsexualism is coming from the Left. The reduction of seeing men and women as different is also coming from the Left. Some of that is good, since there were a lot of hallucinations about what each one should be and could be, but the denial of difference is now the new denial on the block.

Malthus I'd have to mull over. I do see how on the ideal level it fits with the Left. On the other hand the right has often wanted to intercede in the breeding of 'inferiors' including by class, even along Malthusian lines. But I am not sure.

To me I see a core with power that is not easily placed in left of right categories. Call them the elite or the illuminati or neocon/neoliberals. I don't think they have values per se. When we talk about Left or Right, we are talking about sets of values in a group of people. I don't think the real movers and shakers have values. They have preferences. Their preference is that they have power, that they are utterly unaccountable, that there is a rigid hierarchy, that they have control. I mean I would almost call it a sexual tendency than a value system. Here's how they get off. There game moves slide into the right and left and they can use either side to shift things towards where they can get off even more.
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Re: In the year 2030

Postby MagsJ » Sun Dec 06, 2020 1:55 am

_
2030.. the Jetsons, but without the freedom. Ahahahahaha!

Why were conglomerates and manufacturers allowed to create so much waste and pollution?
Why is it always the consumer that suffers for the conglomerates’ and manufacturers’ ill-thought-out plans?
Perhaps if those in (real) power had put down their drugs and mistresses sooner, we wouldn’t be in this mess.
Also.. this warring mentally needs to end.. we aren’t primitive animals, but the beginning of a new wholly-human era.
I’ll get with that program! :P
The possibility of anything we can imagine existing is endless and infinite.. - MagsJ
I haven't got the time to spend the time reading something that is telling me nothing, as I will never be able to get back that time, and I may need it for something at some point in time.. Huh! - MagsJ
You’re suggestions and I, just simply don’t mix.. like oil on water, or a really bad DJ - MagsJ
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Re: In the year 2030

Postby promethean75 » Mon Dec 07, 2020 12:47 am

In the year 2030 trump will be bankrupt and living in an apartment on probation for tax evasion. He'll be a defaulted zero that nobody will fuck with anymore. He won't come out much, but when he does, the people will see him wandering the streets at night babbling about a recount or some shit. Melania will spend weeks at a time away from the apartment and with relatives. The relationship will have become unbearable by then.
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Re: In the year 2030

Postby Pedro I Rengel » Mon Dec 07, 2020 12:51 am

lol
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Re: In the year 2030

Postby Zero_Sum » Mon Dec 07, 2020 8:12 pm

promethean75 wrote:In the year 2030 trump will be bankrupt and living in an apartment on probation for tax evasion. He'll be a defaulted zero that nobody will fuck with anymore. He won't come out much, but when he does, the people will see him wandering the streets at night babbling about a recount or some shit. Melania will spend weeks at a time away from the apartment and with relatives. The relationship will have become unbearable by then.


You're starting to sound like Peter Kropotkin, I'm worried about you.
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Re: In the year 2030

Postby Peter Kropotkin » Mon Dec 07, 2020 8:25 pm

Zero_Sum wrote:
promethean75 wrote:In the year 2030 trump will be bankrupt and living in an apartment on probation for tax evasion. He'll be a defaulted zero that nobody will fuck with anymore. He won't come out much, but when he does, the people will see him wandering the streets at night babbling about a recount or some shit. Melania will spend weeks at a time away from the apartment and with relatives. The relationship will have become unbearable by then.


You're starting to sound like Peter Kropotkin, I'm worried about you.


K: actually, I don't think he will be alive at that point... he will die in prison...
but his kids might be out of jail by then, maybe?

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Re: In the year 2030

Postby Zero_Sum » Mon Dec 07, 2020 9:44 pm

Peter Kropotkin wrote:
K: actually, I don't think he will be alive at that point... he will die in prison...
but his kids might be out of jail by then, maybe?

Kropotkin


Ouch, okay Promethean, you're up now.
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Re: In the year 2030

Postby promethean75 » Tue Dec 08, 2020 1:30 am

I like ol' Keter Propotkin though. He's fighting the good fight here at ILP.
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Re: In the year 2030

Postby Peter Kropotkin » Tue Dec 08, 2020 1:53 am

promethean75 wrote:I like ol' Keter Propotkin though. He's fighting the good fight here at ILP.



K: I must admit I am not really liking my odds... I should offer the "other side" at
least three more people to make it even.... 3 or 4 to one isn't really a fair fight for them....
a couple more people on their side might even make me sweat.... a little.. maybe.....

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Re: In the year 2030

Postby ArmChairPolitico » Tue Dec 08, 2020 4:26 pm

Karpel Tunnel wrote:
Gloominary wrote:The totalitarian left suits the modern financial elite better than the totalitarian right, altho they've used aspects of rightwing authoritarianism too when it suited them: corporatism, the fake war on drugs and terror...
Gradually they're eliminating all traces of rightwing authoritarianism and moving into a strictly leftwing form: communism, globalism, misandry, reverse racism, transsexualism, climate change theory, germaphobia/hypochondria, Malthusianism, scientism, technocracy, transhumanism...
Starting from the end, I think transhumanism is definitely a fantasy (being made real) on the right just as much as the left. I don't see the people drawn to that as coming primarily from the Left. In fact the nature, organic food end of the left has an instinctual revulsion for it. Though the Left is definitely persuaded by this also. And technocrats are well loved by the right also. I'd need to see some compelling evidence that the Right in general has not found them a long term ally and hope of power, etc. There are elements of both the right and left who are critical of technocratic solutions to everything, but only factions on each side. The vast bulk of both love those guys. In fact I have long chastised the right for being conservative about social change but not willing to be critical of technologically driven change. Of course there are exceptions, but precisely since I was seeing, here for example, people criticizing rapid changes in society via social norms being challenged not concerned about the changes in social norms caused by technological changes. And I rarely got any takers. Now the people here have changed somewhat and the more conspiracy theorist end of the Right has greater sway. That group does look at technocracy problems, which is great. But the bulk of the right, I think they want to toys just like the left. The left may imbue them with idealism, but the Right happily scarfs them up for individual power, hedonism and also fantasies of the great future.

Globalism is tricky. The Left Idealism certainly pushes for that. But the Right's implicit world domination has also been pushing for this, often as part of corporatism. The corporations are the first great globalists (the first ones being things like the East India Trading Company and the like) These were parts of nations, though really empires, and in the end they did not care about, say, England, just as Rome, though before Italy, was never going to be Italian. They are swallowing the world, and where they have control it can't be democracy, since these are hierarchical organizations. Free Trade agreements pushed by the corporations are anti-national, anti-democratic and for a while they may serve the parent country, but not after. So, yes, you hear more anti-globalist stuff on the right, but implicitly, since they vote corporate lines and Wall st. lines, they support the corporatization and financialization of the whole world. They may not get that this is globalism, but they are supporting it.

Transsexualism is coming from the Left. The reduction of seeing men and women as different is also coming from the Left. Some of that is good, since there were a lot of hallucinations about what each one should be and could be, but the denial of difference is now the new denial on the block.

Malthus I'd have to mull over. I do see how on the ideal level it fits with the Left. On the other hand the right has often wanted to intercede in the breeding of 'inferiors' including by class, even along Malthusian lines. But I am not sure.

To me I see a core with power that is not easily placed in left of right categories. Call them the elite or the illuminati or neocon/neoliberals. I don't think they have values per se. When we talk about Left or Right, we are talking about sets of values in a group of people. I don't think the real movers and shakers have values. They have preferences. Their preference is that they have power, that they are utterly unaccountable, that there is a rigid hierarchy, that they have control. I mean I would almost call it a sexual tendency than a value system. Here's how they get off. There game moves slide into the right and left and they can use either side to shift things towards where they can get off even more.


Great post, really enjoyed reading this. I often wonder if the visibility of flagrant exorbitance and wealth disparity with the introduction of the internet and social media is partly driving the evident angst worldwide. While it has always existed, it's now on display like never before.
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Re: In the year 2030

Postby Zero_Sum » Wed Dec 09, 2020 7:42 pm

promethean75 wrote:I like ol' Keter Propotkin though. He's fighting the good fight here at ILP.


You're in need of an intervention, it's time. :-"
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