our immoral election.. part two....

For discussions of culture, politics, economics, sociology, law, business and any other topic that falls under the social science remit.

our immoral election.. part two....

Postby Peter Kropotkin » Wed Nov 04, 2020 3:26 pm

I covered some of this last night before going to bed in my thread
"understanding of today, time and space"

I am here to engaged with those thoughts this morning......

I declared last night election as being "immoral" and after
about 5 minutes sleep during the course of the night, I stand by that
statement....

but what does that mean? what does calling last night election immoral
mean?

we had a chance, a real chance to renounce the GOP/conservative/Trump
agenda of being immoral in a big way last night and we failed.....we did not
take advantage of the moment to make a statement against immorality....
the Conservative/GOP agenda is all about being immoral...
but what does that mean? what does immoral means?

hence the sleepless night... trying to work out what exactly does being
moral mean? I hold and have held that morality isn't rocket science..
we can spot what is being moral and what is being immoral pretty
easily....but what does that mean?

simply this... morality is about the harm we do or don't do to others....
to be moral is to avoid harming others and being immoral is about harming others....
simple enough.. but is it true? let us look at the bible for any evidence......

we see various commandments like "thou shall not kill" ok, that seems to
indicate that to "Kill" another is to harm them... ok, we can agree with that...
lets us see the next commandment, "thou shall not steal"..ummm, we can agree
that stealing does harm.. it harms the person who stuff was stolen....

thou shall not commit adultery.... whereas we can agree when one commits
adultery it does harm one or more individual in a relationship or even
the relationship itself... ok, we can agree that adultery does commit harm....

thou shall not have any god before me'..... ok, let us think...
to hold another god before "the god" is to harm god.... think of it
from his perspective.... "I am lord thy god" to hold another is to harm
this particular god... ok, I can accept that... I may not agree, but
I can accept this perspective.....

thou shall honour thy father and mother.... ok, to dishonor one parents
is to harm them.. I can accept this...

thou shall not bear false witness against thy neighbor
to do so would harm thy neighbor... yes, this is certainly about harming
a neighbor....

thou shall not covet... the neighbor house... I can see how being jealous can
damage not only oneself but damage a relationship with a neighbor.....

and that goes as well for coveting one's neighbor wife...

we can see that doing harm to others lie at the heart of
the ten commandments......

and we can see how doing harm is immoral in regards to other matters.....

for example....we can see how doing harm does harm to someone is immoral.....

let us take one of the basic tenants of the GOP and conservatives....

racism....one specific example of racism is institutional racism.......

the fact that the police harm people by virtue of their skin color
cannot be denied......that is institutional racism... to harm people
based upon the color of their skin.....and it is immoral....

do not confuse immoral with being legal.......

for example we can all agree the holocaust was immoral because it
harmed people for reasons of race, color, religion, who they loved
and their political views..... and the holocaust was legal....

slavery is immoral.. no one can deny that and yet slavery was legal...

the Jim crow laws were immoral and yet perfectly legal....

the laws making women/ wives property of men/husbands was legal.....

we can point to laws, legal laws which by virtue of the fact they harm
people based on who they love or the color of their skin is immoral....

and the conservative actively promotes laws that harm people, discriminate
against people based on religious concepts, color of their skin, who they love....

that intentional harming is the basis of the conservative/GOP agenda....
and it is immoral...

and they want to turn their intolerance and hate into a legal status...

intolerance and hate by its very nature harms other people and thus is
immoral...

to institutionalize their beliefs of hate and anger and lust and greed
and violence, to harm others people is to legalized their negative
and harmful attitudes towards others....

the very basis of the GOP/conservative agenda lies in the harming of others
by creating inequality as a basis for a society.....inequality is to harm others...
inequality to harm others legally, politically, socially, economically, and even
psychological damaging, harming others.....

capitalism is the favored economic system of the GOP/conservative...
and the very basis of capitalism is to harm the worker in favor of
the owners of the means of production....in other words, by
paying working 5 dollars an hour for 10 dollars an hour work,
they steal 5 dollars every hour from one worker.. wealth, the great wealth
of every billionaire and millionaire today, lies in this stealing of the workers
productivity....paying them less then the work they create....

and the GOP/ conservative is not only completely fine with this,
they want to export and expand this act of stealing.. and recall that stealing
is immoral, for it harm another....

the very foundation of American wealth lies upon this theft of the American
workers productivity.. paying workers less then the work they produce
and stealing that difference..

the GOP/conservative not only approves, they love it... it brings them joy
and happiness to see corporations and businesses stealing the productivity
of the American worker...

the very basis of the GOP/conservative values lies in this harming
of American workers...reduce their pay, make them work longer hours,
make them work in unsafe environments that harms the worker
in a variety of ways.....my factory lite job harms me emotionally,
physically and psychologically....and the company continues to
deny me my rights, my dignity, my health and my fair share of my
efforts in terms of the creation of wealth...I create the wealth
and yet, I am denied it benefits......

and I am not alone... millions of Americans, indeed millions
of people around the world are harmed in a wide variety of
ways solely to improve profits which doesn't go to the worker,
but to the corporation, the CEO......

to harm is immoral.. simple as that.... and the America dreamt of
by the GOP/conservatives is an America in which harming others is
the basis of our society.. it might be legal but that doesn't make it
moral......

and last night, we failed to reject this intentional harming
of Americans by the GOP/conservatives by not rejecting them
at the polls.. at least I can spell that right....

anyway...hatred or anger is to harm others.. and that is the bread
and butter of GOP/conservatives policy.....

discrimination, legal or otherwise harms people....and is the
bread and butter of GOP/conservative policies....

it no longer matters if Biden or IQ45 win because last night, America lost
by not rejecting en masse, GOP/conservatives policies that are meant
to harm others......

we are no longer a moral nation....

last night I compare America to such immoral nations as Saudi Arabia
and Iran and I think, North Korea... but I did not go far enough.....

we are morally, morally the equal to Nazi Germany and Japan
before and during the war....because if you don't repudiate immorality,
you have accepted it.. and we have accepted immorality in America today....
with our failure to condemn it with our votes......

now one might argue I am overstating the matter, no, in fact,
I am understating it.....regardless of who wins the election,
we have failed to condemn immoral actions.. and thus we
have condemn ourselves.....

and soon "we shall reap what we have sow" in our failure to
to forcefully condemn the immorality of the GOP/conservatives......

you think it is bad now...... just wait.... by our failure to repudiate
immorality, we have sown a vast amount of immorality in the land...
we are doomed.... we cannot escape our fate any longer.....

as for me.....it is clear I have failed in my attempt to bring wisdom to
ILP... I have failed to make it clear why we must reject what the GOP/
conservatives are selling.. which is harming others by hatred, anger, violence,
greed, lust and all the other negative and harmful values of the GOP/conservatives.....

let us be clear... bigotry, inequality, division, hatred, injustice, is wrong because
it harms people, both individually and collectively...
and we have harmed America by not clearly and unequivocally denouncing
the GOP/conservatives values that harm others....

I am old, I have seen many, many elections... some I was angry about,
I think I broke some fingers one year hitting a wall after an election...
but this isn't that..... this is something deeper and something more profound.....

we have lost, all of us by not putting morality front and center in this election....

and we will come to rue the day, this very day, no matter who wins and who loses....

for we are no longer a moral, just nation... we are just another nation.....
and everyone who cared about such things have lost......

part two.. next...

Kropotkin
"Those who sacrifice liberty for security
wind up with neither."
"Ben Franklin"
Peter Kropotkin
ILP Legend
 
Posts: 8652
Joined: Thu Apr 07, 2005 1:47 am
Location: blue state

Re: our immoral election.. part two....

Postby Peter Kropotkin » Wed Nov 04, 2020 4:07 pm

I spent a restless night thinking about those who support and favor
such immoral beliefs and actions as offered by the GOP/conservatives.....

around here, IAM call them "kids" and I agree with that term.....

but how can they old onto positions that harm people and thus is
immoral?

their defense is quite often, but it is legal... as if legality means
it is moral... the holocaust was immoral and was legal...
there is no connection between the legality of something and
it being moral or immoral.....

so what to name those who defend this immorality?

I have, after a sleepless night, decided upon this.....

"Morally illiterate"

and what does this mean?

it means this, illiterate means unable to read or write.....you cannot see or know
how to write.....

to be "Morally illiterate" means to be morally unable to see morality.. to see how
one is moral is "morally literate" you can see how to be moral, it is visible to you....

you can see how harming someone is immoral... these kids, these
"morally illiterate" kids cannot see how being immoral is wrong because
they cannot see how being immoral is harmful........

they lack the vision or the intellect to understand what being immoral means....

the next point is the slogan, MAGA...... Just exactly how is being immoral
making America "great" again?

the "kids, the "morally illiterate" kids cannot see how being immoral damages
us, both individually and collectively....

let us look at some who pursued greatness and see what path they took.....

we can agree, as the entire world agrees, that Gandhi pursued greatness....

but by what method did he pursue greatness? did he pursue anger? or hatred?
or racism? or stealing? nah, he didn't pursue any of those because they don't
lead to greatness....he pursued values like justice, peace, truth/Satyagraha.....
his pursuit did not engage in hate, violence, injustice, anger, lust, greed, stealing...
the base values of the GOP/conservative.....

think of Jesus... he didn't pursue the lower values of the conservative...
he pursued values like love, peace, hope, tolerance...sounds familiar?

Jesus pursued the higher values which lead him to pursue greatness....
for pursuing greatness means/requires one to pursue the higher values
of love, hope, peace, charity,

let us pursue another who sought to achieve higher values and by doing
so, achieved greatness... MLK.... he fought for racial equality... and in doing so,
fought the forces that pursue inequalities of race, color, who one loved.....
MLK found greatness by his pursuit of love, peace, justice, equality....
that is how greatness is achieved... not by hate or anger or lust or greed
or by stealing.... that low path cannot and has not achieved greatness......

think of those to whom we have built moments and statues.....
they have achieved some fashion of greatness and each and every
one of them sought the path of greatness in pursuing love, peace, hope,
justice, equality, charity......

think of the "evil" human beings... they sought to hate, anger, greed, immoral actions
by harming others... think of Hitler... did he achieve greatness? nope... think of
Stalin.. did he achieve greatness, nope.. think of Mao...did he achieve greatness?
nope... and why.... because they didn't pursue the values of greatness...
love, peace, hope, charity, justice......

think of the presidents... think of Washington and Lincoln and FDR and Teddy...
each of them achieve greatness.....not by hatred or anger or stealing...nope...
that acted morally.. they did not harm another unless they had to....

and their pursuit was not to harm but to pursue another agenda...one
that lead to greatness... of purpose to help others, not to harm......

the sign of greatness is the path to the moral... the path to help, not harm.....

IQ45 and the GOP is taking a path to being immoral.. even if it is legal....
and that isn't a path to greatness... it is a path to failure...
just as Hitler and Stalin and Lenin and Mao all failed....because they
did not seek the higher values of greatness.. they sought the lower values
of animals... the instinctual values of hatred, anger, lust, greed, stealing....

want to seek greatness? become moral.... and what is moral? not harming
people.....

Kropotkin
"Those who sacrifice liberty for security
wind up with neither."
"Ben Franklin"
Peter Kropotkin
ILP Legend
 
Posts: 8652
Joined: Thu Apr 07, 2005 1:47 am
Location: blue state

Re: our immoral election.. part two....

Postby Karpel Tunnel » Wed Nov 04, 2020 6:01 pm

Pardon the digression, but it responds to what seems like an assumption in the OP. Has Trump won? Or is the failure to have not clearly eliminated him already? If he did win, could you link me to that. I'm over in Europe but even my going to US news outlets finds everything up in the air.
Thanks.
Karpel Tunnel
Philosopher
 
Posts: 3451
Joined: Wed Jan 10, 2018 12:26 pm

Re: our immoral election.. part two....

Postby felix dakat » Wed Nov 04, 2020 6:21 pm

According to the Associated Press the results are not final. The ballots are still being counted in swing States. There are still seven states left undecided in the presidential race.
The purpose of my life would seem to be to express the truth as I discover it, but in such a manner that it is completely devoid of authority. By having no authority, by being seen by all as utterly unreliable, I express the truth and put everyone in a contradictory position where they can only save themselves by making the truth their own.
Soren Kierkegaard– Journals, 432
User avatar
felix dakat
Janitor
 
Posts: 9006
Joined: Tue Dec 05, 2006 7:20 am
Location: east of eden

Re: our immoral election.. part two....

Postby iambiguous » Wed Nov 04, 2020 7:15 pm

You tell me.

https://www.nytimes.com/2020/11/04/opin ... e=Homepage

'The U.S. Census Bureau projects that by the middle of this year, nonwhites will constitute a majority of the nation’s 74 million children. At the same time, it is estimated that by sometime in the 2040s, whites will make up 49 percent of the U.S. population, and Latinos, Blacks, Asians and multiracial populations 51 percent.

There is clearly a discomfort, and even resistance, among many whites, particularly white working-class males without college degrees, to the fact that our nation is in a steady process of becoming “minority white.” They see Trump as a bulwark against the social, cultural and economic implications of that.

What many Democrats see as a good trend — a country reckoning with structural racism and learning to embrace and celebrate increasing diversity — many white people see as a fundamental cultural threat.'


This is basically my own argument. You can talk about "kitchen table" issues until you are blue in the face, but until there is a movement in America [a Bernie Sanders Democratic Party or otherwise] able to yank those millions of white working class men and women who are wholly lacking in much more that a high school education, away from the party of the actual rich and powerful white men and women what can possibly change?

I'm not saying this is necessarily a good thing or a bad thing because "I" no longer have access to an objectivist frame of mind. But "for all practical purposes" without a far more widespread and penetrating labor movement in America, Trump and his ilk are the future.
He was like a man who wanted to change all; and could not; so burned with his impotence; and had only me, an infinitely small microcosm to convert or detest. John Fowles

Start here: viewtopic.php?f=1&t=176529
Then here: viewtopic.php?f=15&t=185296
And here: viewtopic.php?f=1&t=194382
User avatar
iambiguous
ILP Legend
 
Posts: 38688
Joined: Tue Nov 16, 2010 8:03 pm
Location: baltimore maryland

Re: our immoral election.. part two....

Postby Meno_ » Wed Nov 04, 2020 7:52 pm

felix dakat wrote:According to the Associated Press the results are not final. The ballots are still being counted in swing States. There are still seven states left undecided in the presidential race.




That is right and from the looks of those 7 states, ( as pictured on a computer generation) more than half are beginning to acquire taints of blue)


Biggy says,

"
I'm not saying this is necessarily a good thing or a bad thing because "I" no longer have access to an objectivist frame of mind. But "for all practical purposes" without a far more widespread and penetrating labor movement in America, Trump and his ilk are the future."


>>>>>>>>>>>??<<<<<<>>>>>>>








Yes but a turnaround , about face is always a possibility.
Last edited by Meno_ on Wed Nov 04, 2020 7:55 pm, edited 1 time in total.
Meno_
breathless
 
Posts: 7661
Joined: Tue Dec 08, 2015 2:39 am
Location: Mysterium Tremendum

Re: Devil vs Donald Trump

Postby obsrvr524 » Wed Nov 04, 2020 7:55 pm

The Devil versus Donald Trump and so far a dead heat.

So far, nothing has changed.

The socialists still giving fraud every opportunity. The constitutionalists still trying to go by the law.

Ms Pelosi still favoring delays to give every opportunity for the CCP to come up with suggestions for getting around integrity. Mr McConnell still strategizing rational influence. And Mr Trump still in charge of defending the constitution and world freedom.

Now as predicted the world waits to see the legal and illegal battles decide which path the world will have to endure or celebrate. How long will the world be locked down by the battle, suffering indecision and delayed justice?
              You have been observed.
    Though often tempted to encourage a dog to distinguish color I refuse to argue with him about it
obsrvr524
Philosopher
 
Posts: 1098
Joined: Thu Jul 11, 2019 9:03 am

Re: Devil vs Donald Trump

Postby Peter Kropotkin » Wed Nov 04, 2020 9:20 pm

obsrvr524 wrote:The Devil versus Donald Trump and so far a dead heat.

So far, nothing has changed.

The socialists still giving fraud every opportunity. The constitutionalists still trying to go by the law.

Ms Pelosi still favoring delays to give every opportunity for the CCP to come up with suggestions for getting around integrity. Mr McConnell still strategizing rational influence. And Mr Trump still in charge of defending the constitution and world freedom.

Now as predicted the world waits to see the legal and illegal battles decide which path the world will have to endure or celebrate. How long will the world be locked down by the battle, suffering indecision and delayed justice?


K: you are just another "morally illiterate" person around here....

Kropotkin
"Those who sacrifice liberty for security
wind up with neither."
"Ben Franklin"
Peter Kropotkin
ILP Legend
 
Posts: 8652
Joined: Thu Apr 07, 2005 1:47 am
Location: blue state

Re: our immoral election.. part two....

Postby promethean75 » Wed Nov 04, 2020 9:41 pm

The devil and his ilk is not kitchen table stuff. Tell him Peter kropotkin. What we want is affordable healthcare. You can start there.
promethean75
Philosopher
 
Posts: 3664
Joined: Thu Jan 31, 2019 7:10 pm

Re: our immoral election.. part two....

Postby felix dakat » Wed Nov 04, 2020 9:55 pm

Trump must believe that he'll lose if legitimate votes are counted. Ever litigious, he's betting on Republican-led state legislatures, and the Supreme Court he's stacked he believes he has stacked in his favor for his power grab. Oh and let's not forget the heavily armed brown shirts he has in the streets.
The purpose of my life would seem to be to express the truth as I discover it, but in such a manner that it is completely devoid of authority. By having no authority, by being seen by all as utterly unreliable, I express the truth and put everyone in a contradictory position where they can only save themselves by making the truth their own.
Soren Kierkegaard– Journals, 432
User avatar
felix dakat
Janitor
 
Posts: 9006
Joined: Tue Dec 05, 2006 7:20 am
Location: east of eden

Re: our immoral election.. part two....

Postby Ecmandu » Wed Nov 04, 2020 10:16 pm

promethean75 wrote:The devil and his ilk is not kitchen table stuff. Tell him Peter kropotkin. What we want is affordable healthcare. You can start there.


‘Obamacare’ wasn’t very revolutionary.

Basically Obama said (in a capitalistic sense) people should be able to buy their premium insurance plans (capitalism), but we should find a way for poor people to receive insurance for pre-existing conditions.

That’s all Obama care was. Nothing more, nothing less. He struck a bargain with capitalism.

If Obama ever was an asshole, it was his compromise with capitalism ((not his trying to socialize medicine, which he never did or tried)(which he never did))

Learn your shit before you post.
Ecmandu
ILP Legend
 
Posts: 11098
Joined: Thu Dec 11, 2014 1:22 am

Re: our immoral election.. part two....

Postby iambiguous » Wed Nov 04, 2020 11:13 pm

Ecmandu wrote:
promethean75 wrote:The devil and his ilk is not kitchen table stuff. Tell him Peter kropotkin. What we want is affordable healthcare. You can start there.


‘Obamacare’ wasn’t very revolutionary.

Basically Obama said (in a capitalistic sense) people should be able to buy their premium insurance plans (capitalism), but we should find a way for poor people to receive insurance for pre-existing conditions.

That’s all Obama care was. Nothing more, nothing less. He struck a bargain with capitalism.

If Obama ever was an asshole, it was his compromise with capitalism ((not his trying to socialize medicine, which he never did or tried)(which he never did))


Actually, I basically agree with this. It reflects my own political prejudice as well. So, sure, maybe I have a "condition" too.

Well, here, anyway.
He was like a man who wanted to change all; and could not; so burned with his impotence; and had only me, an infinitely small microcosm to convert or detest. John Fowles

Start here: viewtopic.php?f=1&t=176529
Then here: viewtopic.php?f=15&t=185296
And here: viewtopic.php?f=1&t=194382
User avatar
iambiguous
ILP Legend
 
Posts: 38688
Joined: Tue Nov 16, 2010 8:03 pm
Location: baltimore maryland

Re: our immoral election.. part two....

Postby felix dakat » Wed Nov 04, 2020 11:46 pm

iambiguous wrote:
Ecmandu wrote:
promethean75 wrote:The devil and his ilk is not kitchen table stuff. Tell him Peter kropotkin. What we want is affordable healthcare. You can start there.


‘Obamacare’ wasn’t very revolutionary.

Basically Obama said (in a capitalistic sense) people should be able to buy their premium insurance plans (capitalism), but we should find a way for poor people to receive insurance for pre-existing conditions.

That’s all Obama care was. Nothing more, nothing less. He struck a bargain with capitalism.

If Obama ever was an asshole, it was his compromise with capitalism ((not his trying to socialize medicine, which he never did or tried)(which he never did))


Actually, I basically agree with this. It reflects my own political prejudice as well. So, sure, maybe I have a "condition" too.

Well, here, anyway.


Why make the perfect enemy of the good? Obamacare made healthcare accessible to more people and continues to even after Republicans actions to destroy it. Could it be better? Of course. And Americans should insist that their representatives make it so.
The purpose of my life would seem to be to express the truth as I discover it, but in such a manner that it is completely devoid of authority. By having no authority, by being seen by all as utterly unreliable, I express the truth and put everyone in a contradictory position where they can only save themselves by making the truth their own.
Soren Kierkegaard– Journals, 432
User avatar
felix dakat
Janitor
 
Posts: 9006
Joined: Tue Dec 05, 2006 7:20 am
Location: east of eden

Re: our immoral election.. part two....

Postby Ecmandu » Thu Nov 05, 2020 2:13 am

Apologies promethean,

For saying “learn your shit before you post”

On my first reading, I thought your post was sarcastic.
Ecmandu
ILP Legend
 
Posts: 11098
Joined: Thu Dec 11, 2014 1:22 am

Re: our immoral election.. part two....

Postby promethean75 » Thu Nov 05, 2020 5:41 pm

Well okay, but I'll have to think about it. You said some very mean things to me ecmandu and I need my space right now.
promethean75
Philosopher
 
Posts: 3664
Joined: Thu Jan 31, 2019 7:10 pm

Re: our immoral election.. part two....

Postby iambiguous » Thu Nov 05, 2020 7:48 pm

What's still extraordinary is just how evenly divided America seems to be in regard to the "blue" rendition of morality, and the "red" rendition. In dozens of states [including ones with big populations] both the blues and the reds are virtually tied at 50/50.

And that can be both exasperating and comforting.
He was like a man who wanted to change all; and could not; so burned with his impotence; and had only me, an infinitely small microcosm to convert or detest. John Fowles

Start here: viewtopic.php?f=1&t=176529
Then here: viewtopic.php?f=15&t=185296
And here: viewtopic.php?f=1&t=194382
User avatar
iambiguous
ILP Legend
 
Posts: 38688
Joined: Tue Nov 16, 2010 8:03 pm
Location: baltimore maryland

Re: our immoral election.. part two....

Postby Meno_ » Thu Nov 05, 2020 9:14 pm

iambiguous wrote:What's still extraordinary is just how evenly divided America seems to be in regard to the "blue" rendition of morality, and the "red" rendition. In dozens of states [including ones with big populations] both the blues and the reds are virtually tied at 50/50.

And that can be both exasperating and comforting.





Yes but thats begging for a reaction, but without mandate, that's difficult to uphold.

The often raised critique since the get go, was a resounding failure by Trump. to mediate, which he merely suggested by implication.


Please don't charge me with obscurantism here, since I'm talking from what cumulative impressions suggest.
Meno_
breathless
 
Posts: 7661
Joined: Tue Dec 08, 2015 2:39 am
Location: Mysterium Tremendum

Re: our immoral election.. part two....

Postby Ecmandu » Thu Nov 05, 2020 10:44 pm

iambiguous wrote:What's still extraordinary is just how evenly divided America seems to be in regard to the "blue" rendition of morality, and the "red" rendition. In dozens of states [including ones with big populations] both the blues and the reds are virtually tied at 50/50.

And that can be both exasperating and comforting.


Iambiguous! You just figured this out?!

It’s not just extraordinary, it’s statistically impossible. The odds that every presidential election is so close is greater than the number of known particles in the universe.

Draw your own conclusions.

I’ll give you two options:

1.) the elections are being hacked by our own government to sow as much discord as possible

2.) massive (and I mean massive) social control experiments are being conducted and are working on the US population

3.) 1 and 2 combined
Ecmandu
ILP Legend
 
Posts: 11098
Joined: Thu Dec 11, 2014 1:22 am

Re: our immoral election.. part two....

Postby obsrvr524 » Thu Nov 05, 2020 11:25 pm

I think they call it "divide and conquer".

You bloks still aren't waking up to what is really going on.

Think CCP vs Constitutional democracy. And pay attention to how many media outlets and platforms are embedded into China. Pay attention to how many Chinese embassies have been shut down. Think about how many US universities have been holding pro-communist curriculums.

I'm surprised the anti-American Americans don't greatly outnumber the pro-American Americans.
              You have been observed.
    Though often tempted to encourage a dog to distinguish color I refuse to argue with him about it
obsrvr524
Philosopher
 
Posts: 1098
Joined: Thu Jul 11, 2019 9:03 am

Re: our immoral election.. part two....

Postby Ecmandu » Thu Nov 05, 2020 11:39 pm

obsrvr524 wrote:I think they call it "divide and conquer".

You bloks still aren't waking up to what is really going on.

Think CCP vs Constitutional democracy. And pay attention to how many media outlets and platforms are embedded into China. Pay attention to how many Chinese embassies have been shut down. Think about how many US universities have been holding pro-communist curriculums.

I'm surprised the anti-American Americans don't greatly outnumber the pro-American Americans.


Oh, of course it’s divide and conquer.

Obsrvr replies to my post, but not it’s content ...

And didn’t quote me in his reply. Here’s the post:

https://www.ilovephilosophy.com/viewtop ... 8#p2781108
Ecmandu
ILP Legend
 
Posts: 11098
Joined: Thu Dec 11, 2014 1:22 am

Re: our immoral election.. part two....

Postby obsrvr524 » Fri Nov 06, 2020 12:10 am

Ecmandu, it isn't "an experiment". It is a conquest. What more internationally aware people know is what China has been doing to other countries throughout the world including the U.N. and the W.H.O.. They are doing exactly what they said they were going to do. They claimed that they are going to be the supreme superpower over the entire world. Their means for doing it is well known (outside the US citizenry).

COVID-19 was merely one weapon used to overcome resistance and give opportunity for further division in the US. Immorality and anarchy are also promoted - always hiding their influence - until Mr Trump interrupted their schedule.
              You have been observed.
    Though often tempted to encourage a dog to distinguish color I refuse to argue with him about it
obsrvr524
Philosopher
 
Posts: 1098
Joined: Thu Jul 11, 2019 9:03 am

Re: our immoral election.. part two....

Postby Peter Kropotkin » Fri Nov 06, 2020 12:13 am

obsrvr524 wrote:I think they call it "divide and conquer".

You bloks still aren't waking up to what is really going on.

Think CCP vs Constitutional democracy. And pay attention to how many media outlets and platforms are embedded into China. Pay attention to how many Chinese embassies have been shut down. Think about how many US universities have been holding pro-communist curriculums.

I'm surprised the anti-American Americans don't greatly outnumber the pro-American Americans.


K: Wait, what happened to the greatest crime in American history, bigger then
Watergate? what about the laptop that will shattered the world?

oh yah, new week, another conspiracy to fire on the grill...

see any sharpies this week or perhaps they are all still in Arizona?


Kropotkin
"Those who sacrifice liberty for security
wind up with neither."
"Ben Franklin"
Peter Kropotkin
ILP Legend
 
Posts: 8652
Joined: Thu Apr 07, 2005 1:47 am
Location: blue state

Re: our immoral election.. part two....

Postby obsrvr524 » Fri Nov 06, 2020 12:29 am

Peter Kropotkin wrote:K: Wait, what happened to the greatest crime in American history, bigger then
Watergate? what about the laptop that will shattered the world?

oh yah, new week, another conspiracy to fire on the grill...

see any sharpies this week or perhaps they are all still in Arizona?


Kropotkin

Speaking of communist pundits^^
              You have been observed.
    Though often tempted to encourage a dog to distinguish color I refuse to argue with him about it
obsrvr524
Philosopher
 
Posts: 1098
Joined: Thu Jul 11, 2019 9:03 am

Re: our immoral election.. part two....

Postby Urwrongx1000 » Fri Nov 06, 2020 12:39 am

The real immorality is your side trying to cheat to win, and using the MainStream Media to spike and censor anybody who speaks against it.

The First Amendment is destroyed in this country, by YOU.
Urwrongx1000
Philosopher
 
Posts: 3481
Joined: Mon Jun 19, 2017 5:10 pm

Re: our immoral election.. part two....

Postby iambiguous » Fri Nov 06, 2020 1:23 am

As for who tried to steal the election: https://www.washingtonpost.com/outlook/ ... -election/

The election is still too close to call, but let’s be clear about one thing: It was never a fair fight.

President Trump and his administration have for years systematically co-opted the federal government to support his reelection effort. That has come in several different forms, and it has tilted the scales in the president’s favor.

The Hatch Act prohibits government officials, excluding the president and vice president, from using their official positions to support a candidate in a partisan election. Day in and day out, senior White House officials and Cabinet members have violated this law. They have advocated for the president and bashed his opponent in television interviews given in their official capacity, on social media accounts they use for their work and on official, taxpayer-funded trips around the country.

A comprehensive report released last week by Sen. Elizabeth Warren (D-Mass.) documented 14 administration officials as having violated this law a total of 54 times. An additional 22 officials are being investigated for nearly 100 other violations. Recently, Agriculture Secretary Sonny Perdue was ordered to repay the government for an official trip to North Carolina after he used his official remarks at the event to push for the president’s reelection, following a complaint by my organization, Citizens for Responsibility and Ethics in Washington. The Office of Special Counsel, which administers the Hatch Act, recommended that former counselor to the president Kellyanne Conway be fired for repeated egregious violations; the president, of course, did not fire her.

This part might sound trivial. Who really cares about a tweet or a TV interview? But it’s not trivial. Leveraging government authority to keep a ruler in power is not something that happens in democracies; it’s what happens in dictatorships, and it’s been happening here.

It goes well beyond interviews and tweets, in any case. The Republican National Convention featured speeches from the White House and a naturalization ceremony performed by the Department of Homeland Security secretary, all included to improve the president’s image before the election. Trump has also turned countless White House events and news conferences into de facto campaign rallies.

Even more egregious, federal agencies have been enlisted to shift the playing field in the president’s favor. The Interior Department and National Park Service have cleared national park land like Mount Rushmore and the Mall for events aimed at boosting the president, and the Interior Department has produced videos best described as propaganda films for Trump, including one posted in August lavishly praising the president’s conservation efforts with dramatic visuals including fighter jets flying over the Lincoln Memorial.

The attorney general has used the Justice Department in unprecedented ways to boost the president politically, including baselessly casting doubt on voting by mail and publicizing investigations in early stages to feed those doubts, as well as ginning up duplicative and unnecessary investigations into the origin of the investigation into Russian election interference to cast suspicion on the president’s rivals.

New Postmaster General Louis DeJoy, a Trump megadonor and ally, has made changes to the U.S. Postal Service that a court has found endanger voting by mail. Just in the past few days, the Postal Service ignored a court order to perform sweeps for missing ballots in 12 postal processing facilities spanning 15 states after hundreds of thousands of them could not be traced. The president has been clear that he believes voting by mail will hurt his reelection, and DeJoy appears to be acting on that belief.
He was like a man who wanted to change all; and could not; so burned with his impotence; and had only me, an infinitely small microcosm to convert or detest. John Fowles

Start here: viewtopic.php?f=1&t=176529
Then here: viewtopic.php?f=15&t=185296
And here: viewtopic.php?f=1&t=194382
User avatar
iambiguous
ILP Legend
 
Posts: 38688
Joined: Tue Nov 16, 2010 8:03 pm
Location: baltimore maryland

Next

Return to Society, Government, and Economics



Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users