## Trump 2020

For discussions of culture, politics, economics, sociology, law, business and any other topic that falls under the social science remit.

### Re: Trump 2020

How problematic is this...

https://www.nytimes.com/2020/09/01/opin ... e=Homepage

'There’s one thing about the people on the Trump team that I almost admire: When they do blurt out the truth, they really tell you the truth — in a way that’s so raw you’re left asking, “Did they really say that out loud?”

'That was certainly my thought when Kellyanne Conway declared last week, “The more chaos and anarchy and vandalism and violence reigns, the better it is for the very clear choice on who’s best on public safety and law and order.”

'The better it is? How could anyone be “better” in America if we have more chaos, anarchy, vandalism and violence? It couldn’t be better — except for one man: Donald Trump.

'Alas, it’s true: Every scene of rioting and looting is probably worth 10,000 votes for Trump’s re-election campaign. Just ask Kellyanne.'

And then no doubt there are liberals who, while not wanting to see people suffer, might rationalize more suffering in the Fall as a result of the "second wave" of Covid 19 precipitating more economic misery for millions.

The idea being that this new travail will result in a Biden victory in the Presidential race and a Democratic victory in the Senate.

Then with the "good guys" back in power the source of all that suffering -- Trumpworld -- can be swept away.

This just in...

https://www.nytimes.com/2020/09/02/busi ... e=Homepage

'President Trump and Joseph R. Biden Jr. will debate with a single moderator at each of their three matchups, the Commission on Presidential Debates announced on Wednesday.

'The first debate of the general election, on Sept. 29, will be moderated by the “Fox News Sunday” anchor Chris Wallace. Mr. Wallace received high marks for his debut debate in 2016 and is known for his sharp interviewing style. He is also frequently a target of needling tweets by Mr. Trump.

'The second debate, on Oct. 15, will be moderated by Steve Scully, the political editor at C-SPAN who served as an alternate moderator for the 2016 debates.

'Kristen Welker, a White House correspondent for NBC News and a co-anchor of the weekend “Today” program, will moderate the third debate on Oct. 22. This will be her first time moderating a general-election debate.

'A print journalist, Susan Page, the Washington bureau chief of USA Today, will moderate the vice-presidential debate between Mike Pence and Senator Kamala Harris on Oct. 7.'

Incredibly, no one from Antifa or QAnon was asked to participate!
He was like a man who wanted to change all; and could not; so burned with his impotence; and had only me, an infinitely small microcosm to convert or detest. John Fowles

Start here: viewtopic.php?f=1&t=176529
Then here: viewtopic.php?f=15&t=185296
And here: viewtopic.php?f=1&t=194382

iambiguous
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### Re: Trump 2020

Looking forward to the debates. Be surprised if Joe shows up and then returns for round two and three. Guess we'll see.
Member of The Coalition of Truth - member #2/2

"facts change all the time and not only that, they don't mean anything...."-Peter Kropotkin
"I can hope they have some degree of self-awareness but the facts suggest that
they don't..... "- Peter Kropotkin
.
"you don't know the value of facts and you don't know the value of the ‘TRUTH”... " -Peter Kropotkin

WendyDarling
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### Re: Trump 2020

Biggie wrote
How problematic is this...

https://www.nytimes.com/2020/09/01/opin ... e=Homepage

'There’s one thing about the people on the Trump team that I almost admire: When they do blurt out the truth, they really tell you the truth — in a way that’s so raw you’re left asking, “Did they really say that out loud?”

'That was certainly my thought when Kellyanne Conway declared last week, “The more chaos and anarchy and vandalism and violence reigns, the better it is for the very clear choice on who’s best on public safety and law and order.”

'The better it is? How could anyone be “better” in America if we have more chaos, anarchy, vandalism and violence? It couldn’t be better — except for one man: Donald Trump.

'Alas, it’s true: Every scene of rioting and looting is probably worth 10,000 votes for Trump’s re-election campaign. Just ask Kellyanne.'

And then no doubt there are liberals who, while not wanting to see people suffer, might rationalize more suffering in the Fall as a result of the "second wave" of Covid 19 precipitating more economic misery for millions.

The idea being that this new travail will result in a Biden victory in the Presidential race and a Democratic victory in the Senate.

Then with the "good guys" back in power the source of all that suffering -- Trumpworld -- can be swept away.

Trump offered to help end the rioting, so it's better for the American people to see what the Democrats condone, do not speak out against, or try to stop until they are losing ground in the polls. KellyAnne had it right, it's better for the American people to realize now that Trump is the President calling for law and order while the Democrats say nothing to stop the riots, hell some of the Democrat politicians have even joined in the riots destroying statues and property while watching their cities burn and people die, all the while trying to blame Trump for the actions of Democrats. It's comically twisted how leftists view the truth and you represent them splendidly, Biggie. How can you play dumb to the Democrats letting their cities be destroyed? Why do I ask about the cesspool brigade's honesty? Honesty from them is never gonna happen. TRUMP 2020!
Member of The Coalition of Truth - member #2/2

"facts change all the time and not only that, they don't mean anything...."-Peter Kropotkin
"I can hope they have some degree of self-awareness but the facts suggest that
they don't..... "- Peter Kropotkin
.
"you don't know the value of facts and you don't know the value of the ‘TRUTH”... " -Peter Kropotkin

WendyDarling
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### Re: Trump 2020

Joe Biden's Supporters, Joe Biden's Rioters
Member of The Coalition of Truth - member #2/2

"facts change all the time and not only that, they don't mean anything...."-Peter Kropotkin
"I can hope they have some degree of self-awareness but the facts suggest that
they don't..... "- Peter Kropotkin
.
"you don't know the value of facts and you don't know the value of the ‘TRUTH”... " -Peter Kropotkin

WendyDarling
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### Re: Trump 2020

WendyDarling wrote:Joe Biden's Supporters, Joe Biden's Rioters

..a case of, pawns are they?
The possibility of anything we can imagine existing is endless and infinite.. - MagsJ
I haven't got the time to spend the time reading something that is telling me nothing, as I will never be able to get back that time, and I may need it for something at some point in time.. Huh! - MagsJ
You’re suggestions and I, just simply don’t mix.. like oil on water, or a really bad DJ - MagsJ

MagsJ
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### Re: Trump 2020

Trump Nominated for Nobel Peace Prize by Norwegian Lawmaker

https://www.theepochtimes.com/trump-nominated-for-nobel-peace-prize-by-norwegian-lawmaker_3493289.html

The beginning of the article is hilarious saying that Obama did literally nothing to win his peace prize in 2009.

TRUMP 2020
Member of The Coalition of Truth - member #2/2

"facts change all the time and not only that, they don't mean anything...."-Peter Kropotkin
"I can hope they have some degree of self-awareness but the facts suggest that
they don't..... "- Peter Kropotkin
.
"you don't know the value of facts and you don't know the value of the ‘TRUTH”... " -Peter Kropotkin

WendyDarling
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Posts: 8311
Joined: Sat Sep 11, 2010 8:52 am

### Re: Trump 2020

WendyDarling wrote:
Trump Nominated for Nobel Peace Prize by Norwegian Lawmaker

https://www.theepochtimes.com/trump-nominated-for-nobel-peace-prize-by-norwegian-lawmaker_3493289.html

The beginning of the article is hilarious saying that Obama did literally nothing to win his peace prize in 2009.

TRUMP 2020

This makes no sense whatsoever.

The UAE and America have always been allies (the UAE is like the America of the Middle East, and Israel is an American ally. So... it’s not to much of a stretch of the imagination that Israel and UAE already got along... like 40 years ago!!!

This ‘nomination’ is nonsense.

You see... when I was 17 years old (I’m 43 now), the UAE was so rich with oil that they paid for their students to attend American universities. I worked at a university back then!! I had a lot of UAE friends. There was never a problem between UAE and Israel in the first place. UAE has always been ‘western’.

Did Donald Trump cough and they both said “excuse you sir!” And that shit paper the epoch times decided it was a peace agreement. That’s laughable.

Actually, what’s laughable, and has been for decades now is the Nobel prize itself. War criminals have been given the ‘peace’ prize. Kissinger for example.
Ecmandu
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### Re: Trump 2020

Mr Obama funded Iran and ISIS to keep the Middle East distrustful and violent (a pentagon agenda). Mr Trump crushed ISIS, destroyed the Caliphate, and defunded Iran which in turn allowed the UAE to gain sufficient treaty negotiations with Israel. Many other Arab nations can now do similar. Getting Arabs and Jews to get along peaceably has NEVER been even possible much less easy.

Mr Trump's anti-war foreign policy, especially regarding Iran and Syria, along with settling the issue of Jerusalem by decree is what opened the possibility for peace between Arabs and Jews.

He very much deserves the Nobel Peace Prize and far, far more than Mr Obama.
Member of The Coalition of Truth - member #1

You have been observed.
Though often tempted to encourage a dog to distinguish color I refuse to argue with him about it
obsrvr524
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### Re: Trump 2020

obsrvr524: Mr Obama funded Iran and ISIS to keep the Middle East distrustful and violent (a pentagon agenda).

K: and your proof for this factual wrong evidence?

Ob: Trump crushed ISIS, destroyed the Caliphate, and defunded Iran which in turn allowed the UAE to gain sufficient treaty negotiations with Israel. Many other Arab nations can now do similar. Getting Arabs and Jews to get along peaceably has NEVER been even possible much less easy.

K: again, simple not true...so, where is your proof?

Mr Trump's anti-war foreign policy, especially regarding Iran and Syria, along with settling the issue of Jerusalem by decree is what opened the possibility for peace between Arabs and Jews.

K: The village idiot has turned the middle east into a Russian sphere of influence..

O: He very much deserves the Nobel Peace Prize and far, far more than Mr Obama.[/quote]

K: and at the time, I disagreed with Obama peace prize, but then entire focus of the
IQ45 administration has been to turn the world into either the Russian sphere of influcence
or the Chinese.....

Internationally, the U.S. now has all the influence of Uruguay and it is all because IQ45
has committed treason with Russia...

Kropotkin
PK IS EVIL.....
Peter Kropotkin
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### Re: Trump 2020

Unfortunatly I have observed your posting before. If I thought you could see even the slightest bit of light from inside your bubble of belief I might consider the exchange. As it is, I think any light from the international perspective getting in would cause a burst of implosive babbling and drown you with the issues of reality. Why be so cruel? Everyone has to have their security blanket and misguided hopes.
Member of The Coalition of Truth - member #1

You have been observed.
Though often tempted to encourage a dog to distinguish color I refuse to argue with him about it
obsrvr524
Philosopher

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### Re: Trump 2020

obsrvr524 wrote:Unfortunatly I have observed your posting before. If I thought you could see even the slightest bit of light from inside your bubble of belief I might consider the exchange. As it is, I think any light from the international perspective getting in would cause a burst of implosive babbling and drown you with the issues of reality. Why be so cruel? Everyone has to have their security blanket and misguided hopes.

K: and all I have ask for is proof? is that really so hard to give us?

apparently you can't give us any proof for your statements.....

you take your beliefs on faith and all long as you know that........

I am far too old to hold onto "security blankets and misguided hopes"

Kropotkin
PK IS EVIL.....
Peter Kropotkin
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### Re: Trump 2020

Trump lies. About everything. About anything. And who is to say the extent to which, given any particular lie, he is aware that he is lying and using it solely to sustain what he perceives to be his own political advantage. Or if, instead, as a deeply self-absorbed narcissist [if that's what he is] he is not even fully aware consciously of the fact that what he says is an actual lie at all. He merely says that which anchors "I" to the most comforting and consoling frame of mind psychologically.

But those opposed to Trump who are committed to pointing out all of the falsehoods he utters, surely by now must acknowledge that there are millions and millions of Americans out there who are not in the least interested in hearing that. Trump is seen by them as either the man who will Make America White Again or as the man who will sustain the wealth and the power of the conservative branch embedded in the crony capitalist ruling class.

So, for Biden and the Democrats, it really comes down to how effective they are in making that large swath of white working class Americans who rally behind Trump aware of just how and why his lies are detrimental to them in terms of economic security and jobs and health care and other such fundamental issues. The part some insist that Hilary Clinton fucked up on.

Still best captured in my view by Bob Dylan here: https://youtu.be/vxVH2WOy2DM

But: Biden not being Bernie Sanders, his commitment to more fundamental change in "the system" is considerably more problematic. So, how far is he really going to go in distancing himself from the more liberal branch of the crony capitalist ruling class.

And then of course the "value voter" "social" issues: abortion, gun control, capital punishment, animal rights, hunting, homosexuality, etc etc etc.

Here the arguments from both sides become all that much more problematic.
He was like a man who wanted to change all; and could not; so burned with his impotence; and had only me, an infinitely small microcosm to convert or detest. John Fowles

Start here: viewtopic.php?f=1&t=176529
Then here: viewtopic.php?f=15&t=185296
And here: viewtopic.php?f=1&t=194382

iambiguous
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### Re: Trump 2020

Trumpworld in a nutshell encompassed in a political cartoon by Steve Preen here:

https://www.sandiegouniontribune.com/op ... teve-breen

Yet any number of white working class men and women in the pot rally around Trump because they want the country to go back to something analogous to the 1950s.

Either Biden and Democrats running for the Senate manage to disillusion these folks about Trump or Trump could well win again. Even fair and square.
He was like a man who wanted to change all; and could not; so burned with his impotence; and had only me, an infinitely small microcosm to convert or detest. John Fowles

Start here: viewtopic.php?f=1&t=176529
Then here: viewtopic.php?f=15&t=185296
And here: viewtopic.php?f=1&t=194382

iambiguous
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### Re: Trump 2020

Oh look, another Echo chamber.
Urwrongx1000
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### Re: Trump 2020

Urwrongx1000 wrote:Oh look, another Echo chamber.

Ordinarily, I would say, "No Kids allowed!", but this thread was started by one.

So, okay, carry on.
He was like a man who wanted to change all; and could not; so burned with his impotence; and had only me, an infinitely small microcosm to convert or detest. John Fowles

Start here: viewtopic.php?f=1&t=176529
Then here: viewtopic.php?f=15&t=185296
And here: viewtopic.php?f=1&t=194382

iambiguous
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### Re: Trump 2020

From the NYT:

'There was one very simple takeaway from a complicated New York Times exposé analyzing two decades of the president’s tax return data: $750. 'That’s how much President Trump paid in federal income taxes in both 2016 and 2017. 'In some ways, the figure’s specificity was more visceral than if he had paid zero dollars — which he did for 11 of 18 years that the Times examined. The$750 figure may stick in the minds of blue-collar voters who earn far less than a president, and who pay far more in federal taxes.

'Democrats hope they can turn any feeling of unjustness the number evokes to their advantage. Representative Alexandria Ocasio-Cortez tweeted Sunday that she had paid thousands of dollars in federal taxes in 2016 and 2017 — when she was still working as a New York bartender. “He contributed less to funding our communities than waitresses & undocumented immigrants,” she wrote.

'The Biden campaign on Sunday night used the report to press its case that Mr. Trump is out of touch with the working Americans he says he is fighting for. The campaign quickly put out a video showing the typical income taxes paid by an elementary school teacher, a firefighter and a nurse. Each paid thousands of dollars in taxes per year.'

On the other hand, what draws many blue collar voters to Trump has less to do with dollars and cents and more to do with what they perceive to be his efforts to "make America white again".

They are drawn to him in regard to issues that revolve around religion and a conservative stance on "value voter" concerns: abortion, gun ownership, homosexuality, "law and order", "traditional values".

That many suspect he is basically conning them here too doesn't seem to matter. There is still this "base" that almost certainly could not care less about anything reported in the "fake news" New York Times.**

Still, to the extent that Hillary "Goldman Sachs" Clinton did not heed her Hubby's advice to campaign more in the rust belt, it may well have been the crucial factor that cost her the Electoral College.

So, yeah, if you're a liberal pinning all your hopes on Biden, he should definitely inject at least this aspect of the "class struggle" into the campaign.

**
'And a former official on the coronavirus task force, Olivia Troye, has gone on the record in recent weeks to recall that Mr. Trump, during a meeting she attended, said there was an upside to the virus: He would no longer have to shake hands with “disgusting” people, referring to his own supporters.'

Annie Karni in the NYT
He was like a man who wanted to change all; and could not; so burned with his impotence; and had only me, an infinitely small microcosm to convert or detest. John Fowles

Start here: viewtopic.php?f=1&t=176529
Then here: viewtopic.php?f=15&t=185296
And here: viewtopic.php?f=1&t=194382

iambiguous
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### Re: Trump 2020

9 PM eastern time tonight is the first presidential election. Will Biden show up at all or only via a monitor so he can be fed his responses through an earpiece off camera? Curious Trumpsters wanna know. Popcorn and other snacks standing by.
Member of The Coalition of Truth - member #2/2

"facts change all the time and not only that, they don't mean anything...."-Peter Kropotkin
"I can hope they have some degree of self-awareness but the facts suggest that
they don't..... "- Peter Kropotkin
.
"you don't know the value of facts and you don't know the value of the ‘TRUTH”... " -Peter Kropotkin

WendyDarling
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### Re: Trump 2020

Peter Kropotkin wrote:
obsrvr524 wrote:Unfortunatly I have observed your posting before. If I thought you could see even the slightest bit of light from inside your bubble of belief I might consider the exchange. As it is, I think any light from the international perspective getting in would cause a burst of implosive babbling and drown you with the issues of reality. Why be so cruel? Everyone has to have their security blanket and misguided hopes.

K: and all I have ask for is proof? is that really so hard to give us?

apparently you can't give us any proof for your statements.....

you take your beliefs on faith and all long as you know that........

I am far too old to hold onto "security blankets and misguided hopes"

Kropotkin

People present you with proof all the time and you refuse to view it because it's not in literary form, your requirement as if forum philosophers cannot communicate or observe evidence any other way when a computerized device can perform many functions: literary, audio, still pictures, visual moving pictures. If this forum was limited to words only as you wrongly wish to believe, there would be no ability for philosophers to exchange other formats. Okay, so you prefer written words, now explain how having only that one format for communication between philosophers is superior.
Member of The Coalition of Truth - member #2/2

"facts change all the time and not only that, they don't mean anything...."-Peter Kropotkin
"I can hope they have some degree of self-awareness but the facts suggest that
they don't..... "- Peter Kropotkin
.
"you don't know the value of facts and you don't know the value of the ‘TRUTH”... " -Peter Kropotkin

WendyDarling
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Posts: 8311
Joined: Sat Sep 11, 2010 8:52 am

### Re: Trump 2020

Wendy,

I’m going to put this very simply. Trump is a psychopath, Biden is a psychopath and you are a psychopath.

There are levels of psychopathy. Biden is better than trump on this scale. I always just vote for myself every election because I don’t want to take the karmic hit for these morons and assholes.

You do. That’s not a wise decision.
Ecmandu
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### Re: Trump 2020

If you're liberal, can't stand Trump, and can't fathom why people will vote for him-this is why.

Amen, Sister.
Member of The Coalition of Truth - member #2/2

"facts change all the time and not only that, they don't mean anything...."-Peter Kropotkin
"I can hope they have some degree of self-awareness but the facts suggest that
they don't..... "- Peter Kropotkin
.
"you don't know the value of facts and you don't know the value of the ‘TRUTH”... " -Peter Kropotkin

WendyDarling
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### Re: Trump 2020

WendyDarling wrote:
If you're liberal, can't stand Trump, and can't fathom why people will vote for him-this is why.

Amen, Sister.

Pretty much
Urwrongx1000
Philosopher

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### Re: Trump 2020

WendyDarling:

People present you with proof all the time and you refuse to view it because it's not in literary form, your requirement as if forum philosophers cannot communicate or observe evidence any other way when a computerized device can perform many functions: literary, audio, still pictures, visual moving pictures. If this forum was limited to words only as you wrongly wish to believe, there would be no ability for philosophers to exchange other formats. Okay, so you prefer written words, now explain how having only that one format for communication between philosophers is superior.

K: I am of the old school, I happen to believe in words... I am against video's
based upon a couple of different reasons, one, it is nothing but another
interpretation, and two, I am hearing impaired... words work for me because
I can't really hear Video's.. even with close caption, reading is something that
works better for me....I am a visual person because of my hearing loss...

it has nothing to do with "communication between philosophers"
it has to do with communication that I am comfortable with..
and listening to people is hard for me...I function better with reading,
not listening...

Kropotkin
PK IS EVIL.....
Peter Kropotkin
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### Re: Trump 2020

Let's start here:

'At a Saturday morning news conference, members of Trump’s medical team at Walter Reed National Military Medical Center said the president is fever-free and that they are “extremely happy” with the progress he has made. But Mark Meadows, the White House chief of staff, said Trump went through a “very concerning” period over the last day.

“The president’s vitals over the last 24 hours were very concerning, and the next 48 hours will be critical in terms of his care,” Meadows said. “We’re still not on a clear path to a full recovery.”'

From the Washington Post today.

Okay, suppose Trump actually doesn't make it. And suppose VP Pence contracts the disease, is hospitalized and is incapable of performing the duties of the presidency?

Would that make Nancy Pelosi president?

And how in the hell would an actual election in November unfold given the possibilities embedded in all of these mind-boggling scenarios?
He was like a man who wanted to change all; and could not; so burned with his impotence; and had only me, an infinitely small microcosm to convert or detest. John Fowles

Start here: viewtopic.php?f=1&t=176529
Then here: viewtopic.php?f=15&t=185296
And here: viewtopic.php?f=1&t=194382

iambiguous
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### Re: Trump 2020

This is the "News" and information source that PK and his Leftist friends watch and listen to, trust....

"Really no clear winner" WTF
Urwrongx1000
Philosopher

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Joined: Mon Jun 19, 2017 5:10 pm

### Re: Trump 2020

Urwrongx1000 wrote:This is the "News" and information source that PK and his Leftist friends watch and listen to, trust....

"Really no clear winner" WTF

Another "in depth" contribution from the Kids here.
He was like a man who wanted to change all; and could not; so burned with his impotence; and had only me, an infinitely small microcosm to convert or detest. John Fowles

Start here: viewtopic.php?f=1&t=176529
Then here: viewtopic.php?f=15&t=185296
And here: viewtopic.php?f=1&t=194382

iambiguous
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