Page 34 of 54

Re: what Marxism really is.....

PostPosted: Tue Oct 20, 2020 5:03 am
by Ecmandu
obsrvr524 wrote:But answer his question. What do you think of those to prevent fair competition?


What are you competing for?

A friend or a dollar? I’d always take a friend over a dollar.

Socialism makes more friends. It helps alleviate class struggle.

Re: what Marxism really is.....

PostPosted: Tue Oct 20, 2020 5:04 am
by Pedro I Rengel
Ecmandu wrote:Socialism makes more friends. It helps alleviate class struggle.


By what means?

Re: what Marxism really is.....

PostPosted: Tue Oct 20, 2020 5:06 am
by Pedro I Rengel
I will let you get away with that if you admit, in your own name, that you consider monopolies beneficial for the fomentation of friendship and alleviation of class struggle.

Re: what Marxism really is.....

PostPosted: Tue Oct 20, 2020 5:12 am
by Ecmandu
Socialism pays for the public grid through which all commerce commences.

Re: what Marxism really is.....

PostPosted: Tue Oct 20, 2020 5:14 am
by Pedro I Rengel
Socialism is not an entity that can pay anything. It is a political ideology. What or who is it, exactly, that does that paying?

Re: what Marxism really is.....

PostPosted: Tue Oct 20, 2020 5:16 am
by Ecmandu
Pedro I Rengel wrote:Socialism is not an entity that can pay anything. It is a political ideology. What or who is it, exactly, that does that paying?


Everyone in America paid for roads, for the internet, for public schools.... that’s all socialist.

Re: what Marxism really is.....

PostPosted: Tue Oct 20, 2020 5:17 am
by obsrvr524
Ecmandu wrote:Socialism pays for the public grid through which all commerce commences.

Actually capitalism generates the money for it (income and business tax) and then social programs distribute that money to whomever they please.

At times, the taxation comes first. Then the government chooses where to spend it (most often into their own pockets).

Re: what Marxism really is.....

PostPosted: Tue Oct 20, 2020 5:18 am
by Pedro I Rengel
Heartening as it is to hear Elizabeth Warren's campaign slogans recited to me once again, everybody in America doesn't have a receipt for those roads. Does they?

Re: what Marxism really is.....

PostPosted: Tue Oct 20, 2020 5:19 am
by Pedro I Rengel
It's almost like... There is a state mandated and enforced monopoly on the construction of roads? can it be ecmandu?

Re: what Marxism really is.....

PostPosted: Tue Oct 20, 2020 5:21 am
by Pedro I Rengel
I'm not gonna kid ya, I am just trying to get you to directly admit this link between socialism and monopolies. Your reasons and motivations for wanting them are less, no, they are not important to me. I admit.

Re: what Marxism really is.....

PostPosted: Tue Oct 20, 2020 5:24 am
by Ecmandu
Public domain and access is a socialist endeavor.

Corporate welfare is a purely capitalistic endeavor.

Part of that corporate welfare are the roads that we built with taxes. Without those roads, Amazon would be nothing. Technically, amazon owes the taxpayers tons more then they keep.

Re: what Marxism really is.....

PostPosted: Tue Oct 20, 2020 5:26 am
by Pedro I Rengel
Ecmandu wrote:Corporate welfare is a purely capitalistic endeavor.


In what way?

Re: what Marxism really is.....

PostPosted: Tue Oct 20, 2020 5:27 am
by Pedro I Rengel
Capital is accumulated, employed for trade and manufacture, increased by the returns these endeavors produce and.... I'm not seeing where "the government comes in and regulates it" is in any way a capitalist thing?

Re: what Marxism really is.....

PostPosted: Tue Oct 20, 2020 5:29 am
by Pedro I Rengel
Ecmandu wrote:Public domain and access is a socialist endeavor.

Corporate welfare is a purely capitalistic endeavor.

Part of that corporate welfare are the roads that we built with taxes. Without those roads, Amazon would be nothing. Technically, amazon owes the taxpayers tons more then they keep.


But Ecmandu, by what means does the government ensure the creation, upkeep and, indeed, access to this public domain? Yes or no, are monopolies involved?! Ecmandu???

Re: what Marxism really is.....

PostPosted: Tue Oct 20, 2020 5:35 am
by Ecmandu
Pedro I Rengel wrote:Capital is accumulated, employed for trade and manufacture, increased by the returns these endeavors produce and.... I'm not seeing where "the government comes in and regulates it" is in any way a capitalist thing?


We all paid for the networks they use to make capital.

I’m not even talking about bail outs here. Every citizen of the US paid for the internet (not patented), roads (not patented) and k-12 education (not patented)

That’s all socialist.

You keep ignoring this basic truth I’ve repeated 3 times. Without socialism, capitalism is nothing.

So... we as tax payers see what capitalists do with all this free shit that we all paid for and are not happy.

Re: what Marxism really is.....

PostPosted: Tue Oct 20, 2020 5:37 am
by Pedro I Rengel
Ec.

Ec.

Does socialism produce monopolies, or does capitalism?

Where you asked if you wanted to pay? Or was the money requisitioned from you by law? And was it then not the government that paid? With your money?? What companies where paid for that labour??

Re: what Marxism really is.....

PostPosted: Tue Oct 20, 2020 5:38 am
by Pedro I Rengel
Now. Have some integrity.

What makes monopolies, corporate welfare, whatever you want to call it. Is it "unchecked capitalism," aka capitalism in its normal course, or is it socialistic legislation?

Re: what Marxism really is.....

PostPosted: Tue Oct 20, 2020 5:41 am
by Ecmandu
Pedro I Rengel wrote:Now. Have some integrity.

What makes monopolies, corporate welfare, whatever you want to call it. Is it "unchecked capitalism," aka capitalism in its normal course, or is it socialistic legislation?


The question is how people use what we all funded together. Do they abuse it or not?

Re: what Marxism really is.....

PostPosted: Tue Oct 20, 2020 5:41 am
by Pedro I Rengel
I know you won't answer. You will find some new (to this thread) and unrelated slogan to regurgitate like they taught yas. But I am tired.

This was fun. I'll probably be back tomorrow. Ecmandu, in some fucked up way, I respect you. Because I know you believe what you say. You are not cynical.

You are simply also not very studious or acquainted in the slightest with rigour in thought and reasoning. Emotion rules your political positions. And that is the nix of the problem we have.

What Marxism really is is the relegation of thought to higher authorities, in exchange for warm feelings.

I'll see you all tomorrow, or whenever.

Re: what Marxism really is.....

PostPosted: Tue Oct 20, 2020 5:44 am
by Ecmandu
Pedro I Rengel wrote:I know you won't answer. You will find some new (to this thread) and unrelated slogan to regurgitate like they taught yas. But I am tired.

This was fun. I'll probably be back tomorrow. Ecmandu, in some fucked up way, I respect you. Because I know you believe what you say. You are not cynical.

You are simply also not very studious or acquainted in the slightest with rigour in thought and reasoning. Emotion rules your political positions. And that is the nix of the problem we have.

What Marxism really is is the relegation of thought to higher authorities, in exchange for warm feelings.

I'll see you all tomorrow, or whenever.


I already answered it. Communism / socialism (as you define it) is indistinguishable from capitalism / totalitarianism

Re: what Marxism really is.....

PostPosted: Tue Oct 20, 2020 5:58 am
by obsrvr524
Pedro I Rengel wrote:I'll see you all tomorrow, or whenever.

Great exchange to see on this board.

Re: what Marxism really is.....

PostPosted: Tue Oct 20, 2020 7:51 am
by Urwrongx1000
Ecmandu wrote:Capitalism steals in ACTUALITY!!! There’s a funny quote about musicians (since you brought it up). “Good composers borrow, great composers steal”

Here’s the deal man. People in the hypothetical Marx world are respected for their ideas (more friends), in capitalism, so much more is at stake that people steal constantly and will even kill you to cover it up if need be.

You may have noticed that I give all my ideas away for free. I don’t even have a “go fund me” page. I’m not rich, but I can scrape by for a couple years and that’s good enough for me.

Ultimately, patents reduce innovation. You need to look at the larger picture here. Nobody is the smartest person. With a free flow of ideas and means of production technology just explodes. Your country will beat the other country.

The fucking mouse for your computer was invented by xerox... all computer companies STOLE it! The list goes on and on.

No, in Capitalism, individuals actually have a chance and inalienable rights, to private property.

You don't necessarily own "your own" ideas in Communist/Marxist/Socialist systems.

It's not called the "Free World" for nothing.

Re: what Marxism really is.....

PostPosted: Tue Oct 20, 2020 7:54 am
by Urwrongx1000
phoneutria wrote:this is what it must feel like to be in a room full of batshit crazy people

How many different people commit the No True Scotsman Fallacy over the past week?

It's not my fault that Marxism is now contingent upon Utopian manifestation.

Re: what Marxism really is.....

PostPosted: Tue Oct 20, 2020 7:57 am
by Urwrongx1000
Ecmandu wrote:Socialism pays for the public grid through which all commerce commences.

The Railroad and Oil Barons were all socialists, WHAT?!?!?

Again, some basic historical knowledge will prove the opposite of what you're claiming. Commodities were later regulated by the State. That doesn't mean USA is Socialist, just the opposite in fact.

Capitalism did lead, and still leads, to prosperity.

Re: what Marxism really is.....

PostPosted: Tue Oct 20, 2020 8:40 am
by Dan~
Capitalism did lead, and still leads, to prosperity.

How do you figure this?
We have money, and personal property.
Is capital the only way?