what Marxism really is.....

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Re: what Marxism really is.....

Postby Pedro I Rengel » Wed Dec 30, 2020 4:46 pm

Hahahahahahaha.
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Re: what Marxism really is.....

Postby promethean75 » Sun Jan 24, 2021 3:00 pm

Some of ILP's IAQs (infrequently asked questions) are answered here.
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Re: what Marxism really is.....

Postby obsrvr524 » Sun Jan 24, 2021 5:29 pm

promethean75 wrote:Some of ILP's IAQs (infrequently asked questions) are answered here.

That's all balderdash but that's what socialists do - lie and steal for power and domination. Socialism is just to peak of unrestrained capitalism - capital for the elite class - dung for everyone else.
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Re: what Marxism really is.....

Postby promethean75 » Thu Feb 04, 2021 11:49 pm

quite possibly relevant material for those of you who like history and stuff. I mean about what marxisum is and stuff.

https://www.quora.com/Why-did-socialism ... chtenstein
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Re: what Marxism really is.....

Postby Urwrongx1000 » Sat Feb 06, 2021 1:05 am

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Re: what Marxism really is.....

Postby promethean75 » Sun Feb 07, 2021 12:47 pm

There aren't many marxism for dummies videos out there, but this one might help you and those two clowns in the above video.

https://youtu.be/ysZC0JOYYWw
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Re: what Marxism really is.....

Postby promethean75 » Tue Feb 09, 2021 12:42 pm

Alright dummies we're moving right along here. Urwrong you ready for part 2? Fast forward to 1:55. You gotta be hungry like the wolff, son.

https://youtu.be/HMUuw_K-ky0

(more a summary of points made in the first video than a continuation. obviously a different place, time and audience)
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Re: what Marxism really is.....

Postby promethean75 » Tue Feb 09, 2021 1:16 pm

Lol after 26:35.

'I dont care if they call it lemon meringue pie... later on I'll break it to em what it is'
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Re: what Marxism really is.....

Postby phoneutria » Tue Feb 09, 2021 1:24 pm

phoneutria wrote:well yo mama is like communism
she got no class

phoneutria wrote:and she like
shared by the workers
according to their needs


just passing by to laugh at this again
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Re: what Marxism really is.....

Postby promethean75 » Tue Feb 09, 2021 2:06 pm

Yes that was well done. I hope you thought that up yourself and didnt see it in a meme somewhere.

Go to 1:06:05 and watch wolff describe the ingenious irony of the silicon valley dudes. I hadn't even thought of it that way. This point excels, and is therefore an excellent point.
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Re: what Marxism really is.....

Postby promethean75 » Tue Feb 09, 2021 2:12 pm

See what I did there? Pointed a certain software engineer toward a very salient point made in a video about socialism?

I'll turn you into a goddamn revolutionary yet. you watch kiddo.
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Re: what Marxism really is.....

Postby promethean75 » Tue Feb 09, 2021 2:19 pm

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Re: what Marxism really is.....

Postby promethean75 » Tue Feb 09, 2021 2:40 pm

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Re: what Marxism really is.....

Postby phoneutria » Tue Feb 09, 2021 3:18 pm

promethean75 wrote:Go to 1:06:05 and watch wolff describe the ingenious irony of the silicon valley dudes. I hadn't even thought of it that way. This point excels, and is therefore an excellent point.


lol if you think
that cooperative corporations
are not a fine example
of libertarian capitalistic entrepreneurship
and the kind of economic freedom
allowed to us by free market and capitalism

the fact that you can quit your job at any time
and go start your own business
with some like-minded friends
YOUR own business
because whether it is owned by one person, or many
it is PROPERTY
and it generates PROFIT
and the profit belongs to THE OWNERS
to distribute or reinvest as they see fit

is that clear?

and how do you think they'd feel
if someone came to them
who didn't bust their ass for years
to get a business going from the ground up
and told them sorry but we need to repossess all your equipment
your laptops and your servers are property of the people
and we need them for something else
also,
those profits, we'll take those too
they're not yours, they are the people's
other business aren't doing so well
and we need to redistribute it all neatly
so that the people who made shit decisions and fucked up their enterprise
can have all the same shit as you
your sacrifice is for the common good
eh?

haven't I already made this point here, prom?

actually
prom recently began to work for himself
he's been saving up money and buying tools
to become completely independent form employers
he's going to be his own boss now
working up a clientele that trusts him
and know who to call when they need a railing done
word of mouth will start getting around
about this dude who is neat and cheap and gets the job done
he'll need more tools and maybe even some help

the weird part is that I guess he wants later on
for the government to come and take his tools away
and put him on the same level as some dirtbags
who never accomplished anything for themselves
never saved up any of their money
never invested in their reputation and trade
try to make sense of that


your comrades who did not create the conditions for themselves
to become self employed
who spent their money irresponsibly
did shitty jobs
who were not reliable
would have no choice
but to work for the state
they would watch you prosper as a result of your own hard work
see you acquiring ever better and newer tools
see the clients continue to prefer you instead of them
because you're better at what you do
and that would create a condition of inequality
we can't have that
why do you get to have tools and freedom
to pick the jobs you want and work on your own schedule
while your fellow comrade workers are bound by the restrictions of the state?
that would call for revolution

besides,
the state needs those tools, man
it's for the greater good of the people
hand'em over

prom won't be cleaning any pipes on his own
like a goddamn anarchist
not in a socialist setting


so what books have you been reading?
and this guy in the vid?
cuz this ain't marx
y'all are spreading bourgeoisie propaganda
dressing it up as socialism
to deceive the comrads
i sentence you to the gulag
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Re: what Marxism really is.....

Postby MagsJ » Tue Feb 09, 2021 3:25 pm

promethean75 wrote:https://youtu.be/HMUuw_K-ky0

(more a summary of points made in the first video than a continuation. obviously a different place, time and audience)

A spot-on analysis of historical global affairs, bringing us to current present climes. =D>

Tho in my opinion, a country doesn’t have to be just any one socio-economic system, and most countries prove that to be true, and I think that transitioning not only can (but should) be enjoyed, along the way/during the transition period.

I quite like the Monte Carlo economic-system model.
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Re: what Marxism really is.....

Postby promethean75 » Tue Feb 09, 2021 3:33 pm

But sweetie the point is that mercantilism is outdated and unworkable at the scale we are at in this century. It would be literally impossible for every individual to begin with a set of resources with which they can produce a marketable product, by their own labor, that generates a profit strictly their own. The vast majority of people will have unrecognized potential to develop because they will be beset by such circumstances. They therefore need a structured system to help them get situated... and in capitalism, that means becoming a wage earner... precisely what we are trying to avoid.

We cant all make a living selling ceramics we made in the backyard. That worked in 800, though.

Now, you understand the difference. The irony was that the entrepreneur was emancipating himself from the feudal rule and obligation he had. This is precisely the spirit of marxism here, only appearing in a different form.

Now again I'm showing you THE fundamental contradiction in capitalism; it cannot be realized by everyone by virtue of the fact that its functioning, at all, DEPENDS on it not becoming realized by everyone.

You cannot have democracy here. You can have lemon meringue pie though.
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Re: what Marxism really is.....

Postby promethean75 » Tue Feb 09, 2021 3:39 pm

And stop trying to change the subject of this thread.

an engaged professor wolff in plaid. One of my favs.
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Re: what Marxism really is.....

Postby MagsJ » Tue Feb 09, 2021 4:00 pm

promethean75 wrote:But sweetie..

Sweetie..?

..the point is that mercantilism is outdated and unworkable at the scale we are at in this century. It would be literally impossible for every individual to begin with a set of resources with which they can produce a marketable product, by their own labor, that generates a profit strictly their own. The vast majority of people will have unrecognized potential to develop because they will be beset by such circumstances. They therefore need a structured system to help them get situated... and in capitalism, that means becoming a wage earner... precisely what we are trying to avoid.

We cant all make a living selling ceramics we made in the backyard. That worked in 800, though.

Now, you understand the difference. The irony was that the entrepreneur was emancipating himself from the feudal rule and obligation he had. This is precisely the spirit of marxism here, only appearing in a different form.

Now again I'm showing you THE fundamental contradiction in capitalism; it cannot be realized by everyone by virtue of the fact that its functioning, at all, DEPENDS on it not becoming realized by everyone.

You cannot have democracy here. You can have lemon meringue pie though.

I was thinking beyond that ^^^ ..I did say current present climes, didn’t I?

The current discerning mindset is about sustainability, of self and society/the self within its society.. though artisans do still exist.
The possibility of anything we can imagine existing is endless and infinite.. - MagsJ
I haven't got the time to spend the time reading something that is telling me nothing, as I will never be able to get back that time, and I may need it for something at some point in time.. Huh! - MagsJ
You’re suggestions and I, just simply don’t mix.. like oil on water, or a really bad DJ - MagsJ
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Re: what Marxism really is.....

Postby promethean75 » Tue Feb 09, 2021 4:08 pm

That post was supposed to be before yours but since I'm on a phone, I spend as much time correcting typos as I do typing... which means I essentially post twice per every one post. See even this post has taken mention minutes. Me ten minutes, I meant.
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Re: what Marxism really is.....

Postby MagsJ » Tue Feb 09, 2021 4:10 pm

promethean75 wrote:And stop trying to change the subject of this thread.

an engaged professor wolff in plaid. One of my favs.

I can always mention Stalin and Lenin again, but I see no point or merit in doing so.. I hate going over old ground, you see.

I’m drawing a conclusion from Wolff’s summary, not arguing him on point to point, see? I ain’t in class right now, Darl..
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I haven't got the time to spend the time reading something that is telling me nothing, as I will never be able to get back that time, and I may need it for something at some point in time.. Huh! - MagsJ
You’re suggestions and I, just simply don’t mix.. like oil on water, or a really bad DJ - MagsJ
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Re: what Marxism really is.....

Postby promethean75 » Tue Feb 09, 2021 4:12 pm

That post too was out of kronological order. I should actually quote the person or something that I'm responding too.
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Re: what Marxism really is.....

Postby MagsJ » Tue Feb 09, 2021 4:14 pm

promethean75 wrote:That post was supposed to be before yours but since I'm on a phone, I spend as much time correcting typos as I do typing... which means I essentially post twice per every one post. See even this post has taken mention minutes. Me ten minutes, I meant.

Oh, it was for Phon, ok.. then I retract everything I’ve just said.. or should I? :evilfun:
The possibility of anything we can imagine existing is endless and infinite.. - MagsJ
I haven't got the time to spend the time reading something that is telling me nothing, as I will never be able to get back that time, and I may need it for something at some point in time.. Huh! - MagsJ
You’re suggestions and I, just simply don’t mix.. like oil on water, or a really bad DJ - MagsJ
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Re: what Marxism really is.....

Postby MagsJ » Tue Feb 09, 2021 4:16 pm

promethean75 wrote:That post too was out of kronological order. I should actually quote the person or something that I'm responding too.

Yes please, coz I’m arguing when I don’t have to, lol.

I’ll make my leave, I think it best.. 8-[
The possibility of anything we can imagine existing is endless and infinite.. - MagsJ
I haven't got the time to spend the time reading something that is telling me nothing, as I will never be able to get back that time, and I may need it for something at some point in time.. Huh! - MagsJ
You’re suggestions and I, just simply don’t mix.. like oil on water, or a really bad DJ - MagsJ
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Re: what Marxism really is.....

Postby phoneutria » Tue Feb 09, 2021 5:11 pm

promethean75 wrote:But sweetie the point is that mercantilism is outdated and unworkable at the scale we are at in this century. It would be literally impossible for every individual to begin with a set of resources with which they can produce a marketable product, by their own labor, that generates a profit strictly their own. The vast majority of people will have unrecognized potential to develop because they will be beset by such circumstances. They therefore need a structured system to help them get situated... and in capitalism, that means becoming a wage earner... precisely what we are trying to avoid.

We cant all make a living selling ceramics we made in the backyard. That worked in 800, though.

Now, you understand the difference. The irony was that the entrepreneur was emancipating himself from the feudal rule and obligation he had. This is precisely the spirit of marxism here, only appearing in a different form.

Now again I'm showing you THE fundamental contradiction in capitalism; it cannot be realized by everyone by virtue of the fact that its functioning, at all, DEPENDS on it not becoming realized by everyone.

You cannot have democracy here. You can have lemon meringue pie though.


did anyone help you?
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Re: what Marxism really is.....

Postby promethean75 » Tue Feb 09, 2021 5:38 pm

Countless people helped me. Or even better, countless people's contributions to the economy helped me.
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