Robert F Kennedy Jr

[Gloominary]

https://londonreal.tv/robert-f-kennedy-jr-my-fight-against-mandatory-vaccinations-big-pharma-and-dr-fauci/

[Gloominary]

https://londonreal.tv/is-coronavirus-a-plandemic-exposing-the-truth-behind-americas-covid-19-strategy-dr-judy-mikovits/

[Karpel Tunnel]

This has what RFK jr. has collected in general on vaccines....
https://childrenshealthdefense.org/

[Gloominary]

This has what RFK jr. has collected in general on vaccines....
https://childrenshealthdefense.org/

Awesome, thanks.

[MagsJ]

I have noticed that the negative effects of all jabs are much more long-lasting than they were decades ago, as bouncing back from them seems to be a life-long endeavour, and not just a few weeks or months of one’s life.

[phyllo]

I suppose it doesn't matter how many studies show that vaccines don't cause autism.

[Karpel Tunnel]

I suppose it doesn't matter how many studies show that vaccines don't cause autism.

Like you have spent any time looking into who paid for the research that reached those conclusions, who fundsthe research organizations or looked at any of the professional criticism of the vaccines.

Apart from the Kennedy websites vast set of reference, which I doubt you looked at, and which includes the reasons SOME research backs up the vaccines, there is much else such as:

http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC3878266/
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/21623535
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/25377033
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/24995277
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/12145534
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/21058170
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/22099159
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC3364648/
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/17454560
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/19106436
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC3774468/
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC3697751/
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/21299355
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/21907498
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/11339848
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/17674242
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/21993250
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/15780490
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/12933322
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/16870260
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/19043938
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/12142947
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/24675092

Causal relationship between vaccine induced immunity and autism
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/12849883

Subtle DNA changes and the overuse of vaccines in autism
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC3364648/

Vaccine and Autism- a New Scientific Review
http://www.cbsnews.com/…/vaccines-and-autism-a-new-scienti…/

Summary of previous Journal of Immunology
http://danmurphydc.com/…/01/AR-10-12-rata-AUTISM-VACCINE.pdf

Autism and Resulting Medical Conditions:
http://www.tacanow.org/…/2…/09/autism-studies-april-2008.pdf .

Mercury toxic encephalopathy manifesting with clinical symptoms of regressive autistic disorders. http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/17454560

Relation of mercury to high autism rates in boys
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/16264412

Elevated levels of measles in children with Autism
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/12849883

Abnormal MMR antibodies in children with autism
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/12145534

Tylenol, MMR and Autism - A parent survey study
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/18445737

A Positive Association found between Autism Prevalence and Childhood Vaccination
http://www.ingentaconnect.com/…/2011/000…/00000014/art00002…

Peer reviewed study on fetal cell contamination with retro virus associated with autism and cancer
http://www.globalresearch.ca/new-study-in-journal-o…/5402912

Study documentation- Dr Deisher
http://www.ms.academicjournals.org/…/article1409245960_Deis…

Autism and mercury poisoning
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/11339848

Hypothesis: conjugate vaccines may predispose children to autism spectrum disorders
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/21993250

Rise in autism coincides with rise in vaccines
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/21623535

A two-phase study evaluating the relationship between Thimerosal-containing vaccine administration and the risk for an autism spectrum disorder diagnosis in the United States
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC3878266/
Elevated levels of measles antibodies in children with autism. - PubMed - NCBI
Pediatr Neurol. 2003 Apr;28(4):292-4. Research Support, Non-U.S. Gov't
ncbi.nlm.nih.gov

A study published in the Journal of Biomedical Sciences determined that the autoimmunity to the central nervous system may play a causal role in autism. Researchers discovered that because many autistic children harbour elevated levels of measles antibodies, they should conduct a serological study of measles-mumps-rubella (MMR) and myelin basic protein (MBP) autoantibodies. They used serum samples of 125 autistic children and 92 controlled children. Their analysis showed a significant increase in the level of MMR antibodies in autistic children. The study concludes that the autistic children had an inappropriate or abnormal antibody response to MMR. The study determined that autism could be a result from an atypical measles infection that produces neurological symptoms in some children. The source of this virus could be a variant of MV, or it could be the MMR vaccine.

http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/12145534

Doctors who explain clearly why vaccines aren't safe or effective.

1. Dr. Nancy Banks - http://bit.ly/1Ip0aIm
2. Dr. Russell Blaylock - http://bit.ly/1BXxQZL
3. Dr. Shiv Chopra - http://bit.ly/1gdgh1s
4. Dr. Sherri Tenpenny - http://bit.ly/1MPVbjx
5. Dr. Suzanne Humphries - http://bit.ly/17sKDbf
6. Dr. Larry Palevsky - http://bit.ly/1LLEjf6
7. Dr. Toni Bark - http://bit.ly/1CYM9RB
8. Dr. Andrew Wakefield - http://bit.ly/1MuyNzo
9. Dr. Meryl Nass - http://bit.ly/1DGzJsc
10. Dr. Raymond Obomsawin - http://bit.ly/1G9ZXYl
11. Dr. Ghislaine Lanctot - http://bit.ly/1MrVeUL
12. Dr. Robert Rowen - http://bit.ly/1SIELeF
13. Dr. David Ayoub - http://bit.ly/1SIELve
14. Dr. Boyd Haley PhD - http://bit.ly/1KsdVby
15. Dr. Rashid Buttar - http://bit.ly/1gWOkL6
16. Dr. Roby Mitchell - http://bit.ly/1gdgEZU
17. Dr. Ken Stoller - http://bit.ly/1MPVqLI
18. Dr. Mayer Eisenstein - http://bit.ly/1LLEqHH
19. Dr. Frank Engley, PhD - http://bit.ly/1OHbLDI
20. Dr. David Davis - http://bit.ly/1gdgJwo
21. Dr Tetyana Obukhanych - http://bit.ly/16Z7k6J
22. Dr. Harold E Buttram - http://bit.ly/1Kru6Df
23. Dr. Kelly Brogan - http://bit.ly/1D31pfQ
24. Dr. RC Tent - http://bit.ly/1MPVwmu
25. Dr. Rebecca Carley - http://bit.ly/K49F4d
26. Dr. Andrew Moulden - http://bit.ly/1fwzKJu
27. Dr. Jack Wolfson - http://bit.ly/1wtPHRA
28. Dr. Michael Elice - http://bit.ly/1KsdpKA
29. Dr. Terry Wahls - http://bit.ly/1gWOBhd
30. Dr. Stephanie Seneff - http://bit.ly/1OtWxAY
31. Dr. Paul Thomas - http://bit.ly/1DpeXPf
32. Many doctors talking at once - http://bit.ly/1MPVHOv
33. Dr. Richard Moskowitz - censored
34. Dr. Jane Orient - http://bit.ly/1MXX7pb
35. Dr. Richard Deth - http://bit.ly/1GQDL10
36. Dr. Lucija Tomljenovic - http://bit.ly/1eqiPr5
37. Dr Chris Shaw - http://bit.ly/1IlGiBp
38. Dr. Susan McCreadie - http://bit.ly/1CqqN83
39. Dr. Mary Ann Block - http://bit.ly/1OHcyUX
40. Dr. David Brownstein - http://bit.ly/1EaHl9A
41. Dr. Jayne Donegan - http://bit.ly/1wOk4Zz
42. Dr. Troy Ross - censored
43. Dr. Philip Incao - http://bit.ly/1ghE7sS
44. Dr. Joseph Mercola - http://bit.ly/18dE38I
45. Dr. Jeff Bradstreet - http://bit.ly/1MaX0cC
46. Dr. Robert Mendelson - http://bit.ly/1JpAEQr
47. Dr Theresa Deisher https://m.youtube.com/watch?feature=you ... Bc6WX33SuE
48. Dr. Sam Eggertsen-https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=8LB-3xkeDAE

Hundreds more doctors testifying that vaccines aren't safe or effective, in these documentaries....

1. Vaccination - The Silent Epidemic - http://bit.ly/1vvQJ2W
2. The Greater Good - http://bit.ly/1icxh8j
3. Shots In The Dark - http://bit.ly/1ObtC8h
4. Vaccination The Hidden Truth - http://bit.ly/KEYDUh
5. Vaccine Nation - http://bit.ly/1iKNvpU
6. Vaccination - The Truth About Vaccines - http://bit.ly/1vlpwvU
7. Lethal Injection - http://bit.ly/1URN7BJ
8. Bought - http://bit.ly/1M7YSlr
9. Deadly Immunity - http://bit.ly/1KUg64Z
10. Autism - Made in the USA - http://bit.ly/1J8WQN5
11. Beyond Treason - http://bit.ly/1B7kmvt
12. Trace Amounts - http://bit.ly/1vAH3Hv
13. Why We Don't Vaccinate - http://bit.ly/1KbXhuf

Resource from the passionate, conscious Chris Kirckofse...

Such as....
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC3878266/
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/21623535
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/25377033
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/24995277
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/12145534
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/21058170
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/22099159
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC3364648/
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/17454560
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/19106436
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC3774468/
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC3697751/
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/21299355
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/21907498
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/11339848
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/17674242
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/21993250
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/15780490
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/12933322
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/16870260
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/19043938
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/12142947
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/24675092

Causal relationship between vaccine induced immunity and autism
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/12849883

Subtle DNA changes and the overuse of vaccines in autism
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC3364648/

Vaccine and Autism- a New Scientific Review
http://www.cbsnews.com/…/vaccines-and-autism-a-new-scienti…/

Summary of previous Journal of Immunology
http://danmurphydc.com/…/01/AR-10-12-rata-AUTISM-VACCINE.pdf

Autism and Resulting Medical Conditions:
http://www.tacanow.org/…/2…/09/autism-studies-april-2008.pdf .

Mercury toxic encephalopathy manifesting with clinical symptoms of regressive autistic disorders. http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/17454560

Relation of mercury to high autism rates in boys
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/16264412

Elevated levels of measles in children with Autism
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/12849883

Abnormal MMR antibodies in children with autism
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/12145534

Tylenol, MMR and Autism - A parent survey study
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/18445737

A Positive Association found between Autism Prevalence and Childhood Vaccination
http://www.ingentaconnect.com/…/2011/000…/00000014/art00002…

Peer reviewed study on fetal cell contamination with retro virus associated with autism and cancer
http://www.globalresearch.ca/new-study-in-journal-o…/5402912

Study documentation- Dr Deisher
http://www.ms.academicjournals.org/…/article1409245960_Deis…

Autism and mercury poisoning
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/11339848

Hypothesis: conjugate vaccines may predispose children to autism spectrum disorders
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/21993250

Rise in autism coincides with rise in vaccines
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/21623535

A two-phase study evaluating the relationship between Thimerosal-containing vaccine administration and the risk for an autism spectrum disorder diagnosis in the United States
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC3878266/
Elevated levels of measles antibodies in children with autism. - PubMed - NCBI
Pediatr Neurol. 2003 Apr;28(4):292-4. Research Support, Non-U.S. Gov't
ncbi.nlm.nih.gov

A study published in the Journal of Biomedical Sciences determined that the autoimmunity to the central nervous system may play a causal role in autism. Researchers discovered that because many autistic children harbour elevated levels of measles antibodies, they should conduct a serological study of measles-mumps-rubella (MMR) and myelin basic protein (MBP) autoantibodies. They used serum samples of 125 autistic children and 92 controlled children. Their analysis showed a significant increase in the level of MMR antibodies in autistic children. The study concludes that the autistic children had an inappropriate or abnormal antibody response to MMR. The study determined that autism could be a result from an atypical measles infection that produces neurological symptoms in some children. The source of this virus could be a variant of MV, or it could be the MMR vaccine.

http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/12145534

Doctors who explain clearly why vaccines aren't safe or effective.

1. Dr. Nancy Banks - http://bit.ly/1Ip0aIm
2. Dr. Russell Blaylock - http://bit.ly/1BXxQZL
3. Dr. Shiv Chopra - http://bit.ly/1gdgh1s
4. Dr. Sherri Tenpenny - http://bit.ly/1MPVbjx
5. Dr. Suzanne Humphries - http://bit.ly/17sKDbf
6. Dr. Larry Palevsky - http://bit.ly/1LLEjf6
7. Dr. Toni Bark - http://bit.ly/1CYM9RB
8. Dr. Andrew Wakefield - http://bit.ly/1MuyNzo
9. Dr. Meryl Nass - http://bit.ly/1DGzJsc
10. Dr. Raymond Obomsawin - http://bit.ly/1G9ZXYl
11. Dr. Ghislaine Lanctot - http://bit.ly/1MrVeUL
12. Dr. Robert Rowen - http://bit.ly/1SIELeF
13. Dr. David Ayoub - http://bit.ly/1SIELve
14. Dr. Boyd Haley PhD - http://bit.ly/1KsdVby
15. Dr. Rashid Buttar - http://bit.ly/1gWOkL6
16. Dr. Roby Mitchell - http://bit.ly/1gdgEZU
17. Dr. Ken Stoller - http://bit.ly/1MPVqLI
18. Dr. Mayer Eisenstein - http://bit.ly/1LLEqHH
19. Dr. Frank Engley, PhD - http://bit.ly/1OHbLDI
20. Dr. David Davis - http://bit.ly/1gdgJwo
21. Dr Tetyana Obukhanych - http://bit.ly/16Z7k6J
22. Dr. Harold E Buttram - http://bit.ly/1Kru6Df
23. Dr. Kelly Brogan - http://bit.ly/1D31pfQ
24. Dr. RC Tent - http://bit.ly/1MPVwmu
25. Dr. Rebecca Carley - http://bit.ly/K49F4d
26. Dr. Andrew Moulden - http://bit.ly/1fwzKJu
27. Dr. Jack Wolfson - http://bit.ly/1wtPHRA
28. Dr. Michael Elice - http://bit.ly/1KsdpKA
29. Dr. Terry Wahls - http://bit.ly/1gWOBhd
30. Dr. Stephanie Seneff - http://bit.ly/1OtWxAY
31. Dr. Paul Thomas - http://bit.ly/1DpeXPf
32. Many doctors talking at once - http://bit.ly/1MPVHOv
33. Dr. Richard Moskowitz - censored
34. Dr. Jane Orient - http://bit.ly/1MXX7pb
35. Dr. Richard Deth - http://bit.ly/1GQDL10
36. Dr. Lucija Tomljenovic - http://bit.ly/1eqiPr5
37. Dr Chris Shaw - http://bit.ly/1IlGiBp
38. Dr. Susan McCreadie - http://bit.ly/1CqqN83
39. Dr. Mary Ann Block - http://bit.ly/1OHcyUX
40. Dr. David Brownstein - http://bit.ly/1EaHl9A
41. Dr. Jayne Donegan - http://bit.ly/1wOk4Zz
42. Dr. Troy Ross - censored
43. Dr. Philip Incao - http://bit.ly/1ghE7sS
44. Dr. Joseph Mercola - http://bit.ly/18dE38I
45. Dr. Jeff Bradstreet - http://bit.ly/1MaX0cC
46. Dr. Robert Mendelson - http://bit.ly/1JpAEQr
47. Dr Theresa Deisher https://m.youtube.com/watch?feature=you ... Bc6WX33SuE
48. Dr. Sam Eggertsen-https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=8LB-3xkeDAE

Hundreds more doctors testifying that vaccines aren't safe or effective, in these documentaries....

1. Vaccination - The Silent Epidemic - http://bit.ly/1vvQJ2W
2. The Greater Good - http://bit.ly/1icxh8j
3. Shots In The Dark - http://bit.ly/1ObtC8h
4. Vaccination The Hidden Truth - http://bit.ly/KEYDUh
5. Vaccine Nation - http://bit.ly/1iKNvpU
6. Vaccination - The Truth About Vaccines - http://bit.ly/1vlpwvU
7. Lethal Injection - http://bit.ly/1URN7BJ
8. Bought - http://bit.ly/1M7YSlr
9. Deadly Immunity - http://bit.ly/1KUg64Z
10. Autism - Made in the USA - http://bit.ly/1J8WQN5
11. Beyond Treason - http://bit.ly/1B7kmvt
12. Trace Amounts - http://bit.ly/1vAH3Hv
13. Why We Don't Vaccinate - http://bit.ly/1KbXhuf

[iambiguous]

As with most conflicts of this sort there are pros and cons: https://vaccines.procon.org/

All any one of us can do is to explore them, weigh them, embrace a particular political prejudice and take our own subjective leap.

Are those who are against vaccines against them only to the extent they are not proven to be safe? Or are vaccines themselves seen to be "evil"?

Is it part of a conservative "deep state" antigovernment agenda being pressed? A belief that no one should be forced to vaccinate themselves or their children? Or that they are all part and parcel of the medical industrial complex?

Suppose back in the eighties, they created a vaccine for HIV/AIDS? Suppose one is invented today? Or suppose they develop one that prevents the common cold? Or one for malaria?

Again, for me, it always revolves around objectivism. Around those who insist that they and they alone have all the answers. Or the only right ones.

[phyllo]

I see this :

A Positive Association Found Between Autism Prevalence and Childhood Vaccination Uptake Across the U.S. Population
- Gayle Delong

http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/21623535

I do some research and I find this :

According to a much-discussed new paper, vaccines may cause autism after all: A Positive Association found between Autism Prevalence and Childhood Vaccination uptake across the U.S. Population.

The author is Gayle DeLong, who "teaches international finance at Baruch College, City University of New York", according to her profile as a board member of anti-vaccine group SafeMinds. She correlated rates of coverage of the government recommended full set of vaccines in the 51 US states including Washington D.C., with registered rates of autism in those states six years later.

Uh-oh - there was a correlation between vaccination in two year kids, and the rate of autism in the state six years later, when those kids were eight. As the abstract says:

The higher the proportion of children receiving recommended vaccinations, the higher was the prevalence of AUT... The results suggest that although mercury has been removed from many vaccines, other culprits may link vaccines to autism. Further study into the relationship between vaccines and autism is warranted.

Sounds rather scary. Until you look at the data, helpfully provided in the paper.

... (discussion of data)...

My conclusion is that this dataset shows no evidence of any association.

https://www.discovermagazine.com/mind/v ... t-the-data

I see this :

In 2004, the US Center for Disease Control (CDC) published a paper showing that there is no link between the age at which a child is vaccinated with MMR and the vaccinated children's risk of a subsequent diagnosis of autism. One of the authors, William Thompson, has now revealed that statistically significant information was deliberately omitted from the paper. Thompson first told Dr S Hooker, a researcher on autism, about the manipulation of the data. Hooker analysed the raw data from the CDC study afresh. He confirmed that the risk of autism among African American children vaccinated before the age of 2 years was 340% that of those vaccinated later.

http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/25377033

And I find this :

An autism study that was slammed by experts and retracted this week by its publisher is still alive and well on the Internet, thanks to what critics are calling a perfect storm of lax publishing standards.

Experts say the lone study author played fast and loose with statistics to show a link between autism and the MMR vaccine for measles, mumps and rubella, some experts going as far as saying that the author deliberately did this, but the dubious results took off online anyway, quickly going viral.

“There are always going to be those people at the edges of science who want to shout because they don’t want to believe what the data are showing,” said Dr. Margaret Moon, a pediatrician and bioethicist at Johns Hopkins Berman Institute of Bioethics. She said she thought the study author “manipulated the data and manipulated the media in a very savvy and sophisticated way.”

“It’s not good. It’s not fair. It’s not honest. But it’s savvy,” Moon said.

Author Stands by Research

The study author, California biomechanical engineer Brian Hooker, did a re-analysis of a 2004 autism study after one of its co-authors, Centers for Disease Control and Prevention health scientist William Thompson, said he had qualms about the original findings. Thompson said data was omitted, which skewed the results to show that there was no link. So Hooker got the data, added to it and ran his own calculations.

Hooker said he never intended to dupe anyone and stands by his research –- though he admits he has some bias because he has an autistic son whom he believes has been “vaccine-injured.”

https://abcnews.go.com/Health/now-retra ... d=25248179

What should I make of it?

It happens over and over.

[phyllo]

All any one of us can do is to explore them, weigh them, embrace a particular political prejudice and take our own subjective leap.

What sort of "political prejudice" are you talking about?

[iambiguous]

All any one of us can do is to explore them, weigh them, embrace a particular political prejudice and take our own subjective leap.

What sort of "political prejudice" are you talking about?

Liberal? Conservative?

After all, what is politics but that part of our lives revolving around the relationship between a government and its citizens.

In particular, when that relationship reflects legislation that rewards or punishes particular behaviors in particular contexts. And then the part where that legislation is enforced.

Here in regard to local, state and federal laws applicable to vaccines. Explored in articles like this: https://www.nytimes.com/2020/04/18/pare ... asles.html

As for prejudices, that is derived from the manner in which I conclude that "I" here is derived subjectively from dasein...more so than from objective arguments that can be made so as to establish that which all rational men and women are obligated to think, feel, say and do in regard to vaccination laws.

[phyllo]

Well you think about in particular ways.

I wouldn't introduce politics into it before establishing whether vaccines or specific vaccines are beneficial for a person's health.

Figuring out the benefits would appear to be the first step and the "easy" bit.

The politics of mandatory vaccination are another separate and distinct layer of the onion.

[MagsJ]

You guys talk of the benefits of vaccines, but zero about the ill-effects of them.. as if none exist.

Why is that?

[Peter Kropotkin]

we know some doctors including one who has an autistic child
and she does the research.. that is her job... studying autism...
and she doesn't believe vaccines have anything to do with autism...
repeat, vaccines have nothing to do with autism....

and her child is autistic... she would have a ready made excuse for
her son to be autistic.. and it just ain't so....

so you all keep up with your fantasy conspiracy theories...
eventually, you might even get one right....

although I doubt it....

Kropotkin

[Peter Kropotkin]

You guys talk of the benefits of vaccines, but zero about the ill-effects of them.. as if none exist.

Why is that?

K: Some of the benefits of vaccines are in the eradication of many very deadly
diseases that have killed millions over the year and one in particular, Measles,
help caused my hearing loss...

among the infections that vaccines help fight/eradicate are smallpox,
polio, measles, tetanus...

the WHO "the world health organization" reports that
licensed vaccines are available for 25 different preventable
infections including mumps, chickenpox and Typhoid...…

I have an uncle who was disable by polio and polio killed
and disabled millions.... I don't think that eradicating such killers as polio
should be considered to be an "ill effect"

but hay, that's me....

you might die or be disabled by some easily eradicated disease
but because you are afraid, you won't vaccinate...… sounds like you are
the one with the problem!

Kropotkin

[phyllo]

You guys talk of the benefits of vaccines, but zero about the ill-effects of them.. as if none exist.

Why is that?

Biggus has posted the procon link which discusses the ill-effects.

https://vaccines.procon.org/

And my position has been that the benefits outweigh the ill-effects.

So we are not saying that there are no ill-effects at all.

You posted a pic that says "vaccines are genocide" . How realistic is that?

[Ecmandu]

Like I stated before...

If you get a Covid vaccine (Covid anti-bodies), you will have a zero percent chance of getting Covid!

The question is what else could be put into that vaccine ?!?!

It sounds like an intentional blackmail scheme to me to force you to take in toxins and nano particles on a MASSIVE scale!!

[phyllo]

If you get a Covid vaccine (Covid anti-bodies), you will have a zero percent chance of getting Covid!

That's not likely to be true. Vaccines generally don't provide 100% protection.

For example, 2 doses of polio vaccine provides 90% protection, 3 doses provide 99 to 100% protection. Seasonal flu vaccine is only 30% effective in some years and more in other years. TB vaccine is 0 to 80% effective ... it's unclear why.

A COVID vaccine that is 80-90% effective would be a success.

[Peter Kropotkin]

to follow up on Phyllo.....

to assume that all vaccines are "evil" or cause such damage as to be
unnecessary, that is dumb beyond belief....

as noted before, I lost most of my hearing because of German measles,
my mom contracted the measles while pregnant with me..
if there had been a vaccine, I would have not have lost my hearing.....
so, had my mom been vaccinated, that would be "evil" or cause
"genocide"?

no, it would have prevented me from having a hearing loss...…

I don't quite see how preventing me from losing my hearing,
is evil or genocide or some sort of "ill-effect"....

I am old enough to have known people, like my aforementioned
uncle who did get polio, and suffer disabilities from it.. is that
some sort of "evil" or "genocide" or "ill-effect"?

those who argue against vaccines suffer from not knowing
or understanding history... if vaccines prevent death and disabilities,
like measles and polio and the plague, then how is that genocide?

do you know that millions, upon millions died because of various
diseases that we can now cure using...…… vaccines!!!!!!!!!!!

and how is that bad or undesirable?

how does having vaccines which prevent death and diseases,
be so evil? are you ok with the preventable deaths of millions
or perhaps you are ok with people getting disabilities like me,
in which had there been a vaccine at the time, might have prevented
my hearing loss?

It seems that those who oppose vaccines are ok with the deaths and disabilities
of millions?

you, who oppose vaccines are unable to divorce yourself from
your ism's and ideologies which is apparently anti-human.....

or to say it another way, you are so fixated upon the tree, you
miss the forest....

you cannot see the larger picture because you are so focused
upon your anti-human agenda of allowing people to die because
it VIOLATES your idea of the right answer.....

is vaccines perfect? of course not, but until you have
a better idea of preventing millions of preventable deaths
from measles and polio and the plague and smallpox and chickenpox
and all those 25 other preventable diseases that vaccines prevent,
you are not part of the solution, you are part of the problem....

Kropotkin

[Ecmandu]

Vaccines are not made the same way they used to be made. The technology back then is not like it is today, we are being experimented on by more than is minimally necessary to create the antibodies.

Covid is something to blackmail the population to be part of a Nazi experiment.

[Peter Kropotkin]

Vaccines are not made the same way they used to be made. The technology back then is not like it is today, we are being experimented on by more than is minimally necessary to create the antibodies.

Covid is something to blackmail the population to be part of a Nazi experiment.

K: and missing the point!

you are so focused upon your obsession, your tree, you miss the point of
the forest....to be a part of some Nazi experiment?
do you even listen to anything outside of your "tree"?

to hold "faith" in a ism or ideology, is no different then
the Christian holding to, "Jesus as savior" because it
is so beyond the facts, that only faith can redeem one....

you hold unto your faith, no different then the Christian holding
onto the bible or that "god is ultimate truth"...…

you are so "sure" "hold faith"in the ism, ideology of big pharma
being the antichrist or in vaccines being evil, regardless of the
success that vaccines have had in ending the death and/or
disabilities of millions of people.....

your utter faith that covid 19 is some sort of plot to
enslave America and big pharma is behind it... is nothing
more then the faith a Christian has in his god or in Jesus..
because it has no more facts then a believe in god or Jesus
has.... it is true because if all one has is faith, no facts need apply....

now one may make the counter argument that Kropotkin has
"faith" "believe" in vaccines, but I have no such faith, I have
history which is vaccines has eliminated diseases and disabilities....

I can point out facts in which vaccines has reduced such diseases
as smallpox and polio and measles.. I don't need faith to
be able to present such evidence.. look it up... no need to
have faith in evidence that is clearly present...

you have faith because you cannot present any type of evidence
that vaccines is some sort of "Nazi" plot to enslave America....
or to somehow deprive you of "rights".. "rights" you can't even
clearly present to us because they DON'T exists....

"I have the right to not take vaccines"

that is fine and dandy if, if you are also
willing to die or become disable from the multitude
of diseases that vaccines prevent...…

your "tree" or your ism/ideology is more important to
you then any "truth".....

why search for the truth of vaccines if you already have
the answers?

I have seen the effects of vaccines and I am a victim
of not having a vaccine...….

and all you have is your "faith" that vaccines are somehow
some sort of "Nazi plot" to control or to enslave you....

do you care to put your "faith" against "facts"?

the deaths and disability of millions due to the lack of
any sort of vaccine?

is your faith stronger then that evidence?

if your faith is stronger, congratulations,
you are a Christian....where faith is more important
then any facts....

Kropotkin

[iambiguous]

I wouldn't introduce politics into it before establishing whether vaccines or specific vaccines are beneficial for a person's health.

No one "introduces" politics into conflicts of this sort. Whenever any particular human community comes to exist there are going to be those who see things one way and those who see them another. About lots of things. Politics revolves around power. Who has the actual power to enforce one set of behaviors rather than another? Who has the power to pass legislation aimed at rewarding or punishing citizens, depending on the behaviors they choose in regard to vaccines.

Folks like Marx merely introduced the idea of "political economy". In other words, those who own and operate the economy generally own and operate the political superstructure. The government. In America, where capitalism prevails, any number of health issues will revolve around those who own and operate the medical industrial complex. Big pharma and the like. Vaccination is no exception.

But given that America tends to encompass moderation, negotiation and compromise in its political process, there are those opposed to "the bottom line" prevailing when it comes to, say, the health and the welfare of our children.

So both sides -- many sides -- can be heard in regard to something like vaccines. Taking into account both the pros and the cons above such that the actual legislation itself is almost always considerably more complex and ambiguous than the dogmatic agendas preached by the extremists/objectivists at both ends of the political spectrum. It can all become nothing short of a tangled mess. But that may still be "the best of all possible worlds" when you consider that the alternatives are might makes right and right makes might.

[phyllo]

No one "introduces" politics into conflicts of this sort.

You're introducing it. That's your particular approach to problems. It's not my approach.

And that's one reason that we don't see eye to eye on a lot of issues.

The odd thing is that you don't recognize it as one approach among several possible approaches. You respond as if it is the one and only approach.

This has been pointed out to you many times.

[Ecmandu]

Peter, I, extremely rarely come head to head with issues with you because I think you’re mentally retarded (on a vast scale).

Someone like you believes that the electoral college means something and that voting politics (such as voter suppression) means something.

When the internet first came out in a big way in the 90’s, there was eye opening site after eye opening site from whistle blowers within and without the US government that PROVED that a branch of the CIA (all those Nazi scientists and propaganda specialists imported after the war) have been hacking US elections! The shadow government and the elites for over 30 years has used electronic vote counting machines with modems in each one (and ALL our votes are counted by machines now!!) to hack every American election since!!

You took the bait! You are so mentally retarded that you believe that the Russians interfered!

It’s the fucking United States of America that is hacking these elections dumbass, not the fucking Russians!!

America is a Nazi state (dumbass!!), and guess what? They do Nazi experiments on us!

[Peter Kropotkin]

Peter, I, extremely rarely come head to head with issues with you because I think you’re mentally retarded (on a vast scale).

Someone like you believes that the electoral college means something and that voting politics (such as voter suppression) means something.

When the internet first came out in a big way in the 90’s, there was eye opening site after eye opening site from whistle blowers within and without the US government that PROVED that a branch of the CIA (all those Nazi scientists and propaganda specialists imported after the war) have been hacking US elections! The shadow government and the elites for over 30 years has used electronic vote counting machines with modems in each one (and ALL our votes are counted by machines now!!) to hack every American election since!!

You took the bait! You are so mentally retarded that you believe that the Russians interfered!

It’s the fucking United States of America that is hacking these elections dumbass, not the fucking Russians!!

America is a Nazi state (dumbass!!), and guess what? They do Nazi experiments on us!

K: instead of your "faith", show me some facts...….

please show me facts that the US is hacking these elections..
show me some facts that Russia didn't hack our elections,
we have the entire intelligence community, every single agency,
saying it was Russia that hack the 2016 election....

at every single point, you offer up faith instead of facts....

as for me being "mental retarded", that is, once again, faith
instead of facts...… that I am smarter then you are, that is fact,
not faith....that I am not "mentally retarded is fact, not faith....

I do not have a history of mental illness, as you do, is fact, not faith....

please return when you are ready to engage in facts and not faith....

Kropotkin