Incel Culture

[surreptitious75]

You may be a very nice person but that is not the issue here

Rather when you suggest that only you can be capable of consensual sex and that every
other man is automatically a rapist by default and the human species is a rape species

I am not offended by that at all because it is so demonstrably false but you really believe what you write
Your posts here are essentially a monologue with yourself as you dont really listen to what anyone else says

The disconnect with reality as evidenced by your posts on rape and other issues is why iambiguous will not debate you you know
You probably think you are making perfect sense but that is not the impression that I and others get from your posts on the forum

You can carry on posting how you want to but dont just expect any meaningful discourse because that isnt happening any time soon
I actually like you but I find you very irrational which is why I have to leave you eventually because you just make zero sense to me

[MagsJ]

"consent" is coercion..

I'd rather you stick to this term than what you have previously been using, as we understand what you are saying, but we do not need to keep reading it.. this is not up for discussion.

[Ecmandu]

"consent" is coercion..

I'd rather you stick to this term than what you have previously been using, as we understand what you are saying, but we do not need to keep reading it.. this is not up for discussion.

So you want me to call it statutory rape instead of rape?

So iambiguous gets to vehemently argue in thousands of posts that all morals are wrong because of his hole, but I'm not allowed to speak out against rape, to condemn it?

I've had this conversation about 5 times in this board, once in a very appropriate incel topic, iambiguous has stated for thousands of posts and hundreds of threads with very long monologues that morality doesn't exist, and occasionally he gives an aggressive wink and says "unless I am wrong"

At least I have morals.

I'm not saying this in anger, I'm actually bored while I'm typing this message.

I'm simply stating that these priorities are internally inconsistent

[surreptitious75]

The problem is that no one other than yourself accepts your definition of what rape is
What you regard as consent violation and what everybody else does are not the same
Also what iambiguous posts about morality in other threads has nothing do with this

[Ecmandu]

The problem is that no one other than yourself accepts your definition of what rape is
What you regard as consent violation and what everybody else does are not the same
Also what iambiguous posts about morality in other threads has nothing do with this

If the start has a no means yes tag on it, that tag endures for the entire relationship. It's very simple.

Actually, iambiguouses posting history has everything to do with this. His content is a billion times more offensive and he's done it in hundreds of threads.

A billion times less offensive and only 5 threads...

You do the moderator math.

[surreptitious75]

The start doesnt have a no means yes tag on it at all - this is just your value judgement and no one elses and its entirely wrong as well
And the same for iambiguous having content a billion times more offensive - again your value judgement only and equally as wrong too

[MagsJ]

"consent" is coercion..

I'd rather you stick to this term than what you have previously been using, as we understand what you are saying, but we do not need to keep reading it.. this is not up for discussion.

So you want me to call it..

Call it coercion or other such similar wording, yes.

Thanks..

[promethean75]

Ecmandu says 'consent', MagsJ says 'coercion'... let's call the whole thing off...

[Ecmandu]

The start doesnt have a no means yes tag on it at all - this is just your value judgement and no one elses and its entirely wrong as well
And the same for iambiguous having content a billion times more offensive - again your value judgement only and equally as wrong too

So, you're going to go on the record as saying, against all science and common sense, that women show equal or less aversion to sexual signaling than men do.

If a man strips down naked in a highly populated area, everyone considers him a sexual predator. A safe space where there is no real fear to be had, women will show much more fear than men.

If a woman jumps out of the tree on a lone street in the darkness naked, the man might jump for a moment (not safe at all), and then decide one of two things: that this is a great blessing, or that the woman is emotionally disturbed. NEVER will the thought cross his mind that she is a sexual predator.

Thing is: both science and common sense refute you

[Del Ivers]

NEVER will the thought cross his mind that she is a sexual predator.

They are not considered sexual predators because of the historical regard of women as physically weaker than men. Needless to say, that has changed in modern times. There are women athletes, particularly weightlifters and MMA fighters, who would challenge you to a few rounds to prove otherwise.

A couple of questions:

What percentage of women, say, between 18-30 years of age would you consider sexual predators?

You never did elaborate on why your rape theory didn't apply to homosexuals, and in using that term I figure you mean both gays and lesbians. What about transgender?

Thing is: both science and common sense refute you

Your views on this and the subconscious have already been noted. Could you please provide some links to external sources that corroborate your views?

[Ecmandu]

NEVER will the thought cross his mind that she is a sexual predator.

They are not considered sexual predators because of the historical regard of women as physically weaker than men. Needless to say, that has changed in modern times. There are women athletes, particularly weightlifters and MMA fighters, who would challenge you to a few rounds to prove otherwise.

A couple of questions:

What percentage of women, say, between 18-30 years of age would you consider sexual predators?

You never did elaborate on why your rape theory didn't apply to homosexuals, and in using that term I figure you mean both gays and lesbians. What about transgender?

Thing is: both science and common sense refute you

Your views on this and the subconscious have already been noted. Could you please provide some links to external sources that corroborate your views?

Del Ivers:

I'm really not cherry picking here, this link is just the first non advertising credible link that I found.
Read a few of the replies to get an idea of the state of the art here:

https://www.quora.com/Is-it-true-that-t ... onsciously

Homosexuals do not send no means yes signaling because they are not sex dimorphic to each other!!!

You're other responses sound like a crazed feminist who simply states that women can do ANYTHING as well as a man! This is blatantly false!

Because men are sex dimorphic (meaning that the whole male sex is larger and stronger than the whole female sex), rape dimorphic (men are more threatening in a rape sense because of basic sex biology of sexual organs) and weapons and combat training dimorphic (men have almost all the weapons and also almost all the training), women have evolved an involuntary aversion reaction to male sexual signals, it's built into their DNA! Women have no choice in this matter.

As for sexual abusers between 18-30, women prey upon children and teenagers, men from 18 to 30 prey upon anything that walks the earth! Men will even rape a rhinoscerous!

So here's the deal:

Women cannot biologically do everything as good as a man, they just can't do it. Sure, lots of things that men are better at are extremely shameful for the whole species, I hang my head low in shame just thinking of it.

But these are species facts, not opinions.

[Mr Reasonable]

Men will be happy to almost fuck anything that walks because women only have sex with 2% of the male population before settling down with someone to have offspring.

This would mean that 98% of men are virgins. It would also mean that you are in the 2%, since you choose not to have sex with women since it would be rape, though they are willing. If the 2% of the men who have sex with women are the ones who do not make it rape, then you are not the only one as I think you have suggested.

I speak in shorthand without remembering the audience.

What's meant by this is that for the 80th percentile of the male population, they are relatively sexually deprived, to the 80th percentile of the female population.

The distribution at this percentage is an average of 8 partners each for men and 15 partners each for women ... there's a very definite "we are the 99%" thing occurring on the male side relative to women.

Are you saying that on average men only ever bang about 8 women? Like in a whole lifetime?

[Ecmandu]

Mr. Reasonable wrote:

Are you saying that on average men only ever bang about 8 women? Like in a whole lifetime?

Ecmandu's reply:

Yes. This isn't to say that they don't have sex tens of thousands of times in a lifetime (like most people), from those 8 average partners, just that a very broad base of the female sexual variety of number of partners is substantially higher than men.

[Karpel Tunnel]

Are you saying that on average men only ever bang about 8 women? Like in a whole lifetime?

I love that the part where he used shorthand without remembering the audiance. His shorthand was false. So he used false data because of his audience. In every generation men have more partners than women. Now there are certainly men who are excluded. But get him to produce the research to back up his ideas.

[Del Ivers]

Anyone who claims to know how much information the brain processes is lying or deluding themselves. (from Quora article)

Likewise it can be said, anyone who claims to know exactly what the 'subconscious' is apart from a supposition simply does not have enough evidence for it. A second quote from Quora article: "The brain is massively parallel at a scale well beyond any computation system we have so far built." True, and because we cannot measure that scale then one can only 'loosely' infer a discrete element, e.g., subconscious, but not to the point of a conclusion. With that in mind, then consider your previous statement: "Not a person like me, who has massive amounts of subconscious in my conscious mind." If you truly believe that then you should write a paper or book on your rape theory and other strongly held views on women it and submit it to the scientific and psychological community for an assessment. But for the time being, you're just pissing into a tornado.

You're other responses sound like a crazed feminist who simply states that women can do ANYTHING as well as a man! This is blatantly false!

I live in Las Vegas. If this were a poker game your 'crazed feminist' comment would be a 'tell' and chances are good that you've got a losing hand.

"Females get better grades at every educational level in every subject and have higher college graduation rates: They earn 57 percent of bachelor’s degrees, including 50 percent in science and engineering subjects, according to the Bureau of Labor Statistics." source

"Men appear to be better at reading subtle vocal, visual, scent and other cues indicating their partner's fidelity, concludes a study published in the journal Human Nature. The downside, said co-author Paul Andrews of Virginia Commonwealth University, is that that these cues aren’t always accurate, and men are more likely than women to falsely suspect cheating. Yet another study on cheating, published in the Journal of Marital and Family Therapy, found that men are more upset by sexual infidelity, and while women are more upset by emotional infidelity. Women, it should be mentioned, outperform men when identifying emotions, according to a study in the journal Neuropsychologia.source

If males and females were truly understood to be intellectual equals, things might change in schools, colleges and universities, industry and the workplace in general. As Hyde and her colleagues noted in 1990, "Where gender differences do exist, they are in critical areas. Problem solving is critical for success in many mathematics-related fields, such as engineering and physics." They believe that well before high school, children should be taught essential problem-solving skills in conjunction with computation. The researchers also point to the quantitative portion of the Scholastic Aptitude Test, which may tap problem-solving skills that favor boys. The resulting scores are used in college admissions and scholarship decisions. Scientifically unsound gender stereotyping not only costs individuals, but society as a whole. source

Women cannot biologically do everything as good as a man, they just can't do it.

The correct phrasing would be that women cannot do some things and vice versa. Is the professional fighter, Conor McGregor physically stronger than someone like Taylor Swift. Yes. But then the endurance and stamina for a fight and that of performing a 2 hours plus concert is a relative matter. I pointed out female athletes to show that what was traditionally regarded is not necessarily the case in modern times. And remember, not all men are in the shape of McGregor and others like him. For the majority of men who do not train as such then they would have as difficult a time competing with women athletes as they would with men athletes. So, some things women can't do as effectively as men, but there are women who can do some things more effectively than men. In short, as time progresses blanket statements about women's, and men's, capabilities are becoming less valid.

Note: I've sent a brief description of your rape theory to persons at a university. I figure those who are involved in this research could offer their take on it. If received I will post their response.

[Ecmandu]

Are you saying that on average men only ever bang about 8 women? Like in a whole lifetime?

I love that the part where he used shorthand without remembering the audiance. His shorthand was false. So he used false data because of his audience. In every generation men have more partners than women. Now there are certainly men who are excluded. But get him to produce the research to back up his ideas.

For one, men and women have a 1:1 correspondence for sexual acts in the heterosexual sphere at 100%.

The numbers are skewed because of homosexual men!

If you count just male to female, you have to include bisexuality. Using this statistic, it's well known by social scientists that the number one sexual fantasy among women is to be with another woman, much less than men fantasizing about men in the bisexual statistics.

So if you leave homosexuality out, women have more partners than men do.

When you look at straight heterosexuality, women do something called the "stratification of number of partners", meaning that 80% of women receive all of their sexual variety from 2% of the male population. Men distribute more equitably than women, which causes their average lifetime counts to be lower.

I'll get to del Ivers a bit later ... entertaining a guest out of town.

[Ecmandu]

Anyone who claims to know how much information the brain processes is lying or deluding themselves. (from Quora article)

Likewise it can be said, anyone who claims to know exactly what the 'subconscious' is apart from a supposition simply does not have enough evidence for it. A second quote from Quora article: "The brain is massively parallel at a scale well beyond any computation system we have so far built." True, and because we cannot measure that scale then one can only 'loosely' infer a discrete element, e.g., subconscious, but not to the point of a conclusion. With that in mind, then consider your previous statement: "Not a person like me, who has massive amounts of subconscious in my conscious mind." If you truly believe that then you should write a paper or book on your rape theory and other strongly held views on women it and submit it to the scientific and psychological community for an assessment. But for the time being, you're just pissing into a tornado.

You're other responses sound like a crazed feminist who simply states that women can do ANYTHING as well as a man! This is blatantly false!

I live in Las Vegas. If this were a poker game your 'crazed feminist' comment would be a 'tell' and chances are good that you've got a losing hand.

"Females get better grades at every educational level in every subject and have higher college graduation rates: They earn 57 percent of bachelor’s degrees, including 50 percent in science and engineering subjects, according to the Bureau of Labor Statistics." source

"Men appear to be better at reading subtle vocal, visual, scent and other cues indicating their partner's fidelity, concludes a study published in the journal Human Nature. The downside, said co-author Paul Andrews of Virginia Commonwealth University, is that that these cues aren’t always accurate, and men are more likely than women to falsely suspect cheating. Yet another study on cheating, published in the Journal of Marital and Family Therapy, found that men are more upset by sexual infidelity, and while women are more upset by emotional infidelity. Women, it should be mentioned, outperform men when identifying emotions, according to a study in the journal Neuropsychologia.source

If males and females were truly understood to be intellectual equals, things might change in schools, colleges and universities, industry and the workplace in general. As Hyde and her colleagues noted in 1990, "Where gender differences do exist, they are in critical areas. Problem solving is critical for success in many mathematics-related fields, such as engineering and physics." They believe that well before high school, children should be taught essential problem-solving skills in conjunction with computation. The researchers also point to the quantitative portion of the Scholastic Aptitude Test, which may tap problem-solving skills that favor boys. The resulting scores are used in college admissions and scholarship decisions. Scientifically unsound gender stereotyping not only costs individuals, but society as a whole. source

Women cannot biologically do everything as good as a man, they just can't do it.

The correct phrasing would be that women cannot do some things and vice versa. Is the professional fighter, Conor McGregor physically stronger than someone like Taylor Swift. Yes. But then the endurance and stamina for a fight and that of performing a 2 hours plus concert is a relative matter. I pointed out female athletes to show that what was traditionally regarded is not necessarily the case in modern times. And remember, not all men are in the shape of McGregor and others like him. For the majority of men who do not train as such then they would have as difficult a time competing with women athletes as they would with men athletes. So, some things women can't do as effectively as men, but there are women who can do some things more effectively than men. In short, as time progresses blanket statements about women's, and men's, capabilities are becoming less valid.

Note: I've sent a brief description of your rape theory to persons at a university. I figure those who are involved in this research could offer their take on it. If received I will post their response.

I'll just reply to this whole post with paraphrasing Steven pinker ...

Men excel at the extremes, the dumbest people on earth will be men, but so will the smartest. Women excel at the median.

Your comments about scholastics does not contradict this.

As for the part about the subconscious mind, while the numbers can be different, there is no lack of consensus that there is the subliminal/subconscious/parasympathetic mind.

[Ecmandu]

Additionally Del Ivers,

I just remembered one of the common answers that demonstrates the subliminal / subconscious / parasympathetic mind.

Most people have the experience of knowing that they know something, often called, "being on the tip of ones tongue"

Without a subconscious, we would know that we know it and in doing so, know it right away, without having to wait for an unconscious part of the brain to retrieve it.

You could argue that some people have better memories than others, however, this does not adequately describe this common instance, as they'll either know it or forget that they knew it.

Hopefully that made sense.

[barbarianhorde]

I think the whole idea of using force is based on showing off how much some one is worth to you. There is no logic behind it just showing off like flowers.A mans violence is his appearance, this is also with you Ecmandu, the case.

[Ecmandu]

I think the whole idea of using force is based on showing off how much some one is worth to you. There is no logic behind it just showing off like flowers.A mans violence is his appearance, this is also with you Ecmandu, the case.

I will on occasion say this to people who argue like you. If my mind acted in this world with your morality...

You really don't want to know!

The thing is: I'm wired to the core to only derive pleasure from non zero sum translation of wealth.

So... you have nothing to fear from me.

My shadow side, what you preach that I should be, is ghengis kahn times a million.

People pay more attention to my shadow side, and for that, I find them pathetic.

I'm not that person anymore.

[Del Ivers]

People pay more attention to my shadow side, and for that, I find them pathetic.

No different than others who could say the same about you. It's a two-way street.

I'm not that person anymore.

If you have changed, and you are no longer bound by such negative characteristics, then neither do other people, especially women, have to be bound by the negative characteristics you attribute to them. Or do your claims of exceptional evolutionary status exempt you from such comparisons?
____

re Subconscious

[Ecmandu]

People pay more attention to my shadow side, and for that, I find them pathetic.

No different than others who could say the same about you. It's a two-way street.

I'm not that person anymore.

If you have changed, and you are no longer bound by such negative characteristics, then neither do other people, especially women, have to be bound by the negative characteristics you attribute to them. Or do your claims of exceptional evolutionary status exempt you from such comparisons?
____

re Subconscious

I'm being misunderstood here. Yes, women only have sex with men who act out. However, men don't need to act out, men don't need sex.

Both men and women are bound by the negative characteristics I attribute to them.

I'll read your psychology today link in full when I get the time.

I'll just note that psychological priming (assumes at its base that a subconscious exists) is proven and is a trillion dollar industry.

[Del Ivers]

..men don't need sex.

Go on an incel forum and make a topic of that. See what kind of responses you get.
Then again, you may find agreement in the Blackpill section.

Both men and women are bound by the negative characteristics I attribute to them.

Not according to many of your statements in this topic. For example, "Women don't see the truth". If you're saying that men also don't see the truth then where do you as a man see yourself in that equation apart from your claims of uniqueness?

I'll just note that psychological priming..

Chia Pets, Pet Rocks and Mood Rings made a lot of money. Language itself is priming. EVOLUTION itself is priming. What's your point?

[Ecmandu]

..men don't need sex.

Go on an incel forum and make a topic of that. See what kind of responses you get.
Then again, you may find agreement in the Blackpill section.

Both men and women are bound by the negative characteristics I attribute to them.

Not according to many of your statements in this topic. For example, "Women don't see the truth". If you're saying that men also don't see the truth then where do you as a man see yourself in that equation apart from your claims of uniqueness?

I'll just note that psychological priming..

Chia Pets, Pet Rocks and Mood Rings made a lot of money. Language itself is priming. EVOLUTION itself is priming. What's your point?

There are professional magicians that make millions of dollars off of priming. It's so exact a science that they live off of it... and that's not even counting the trillion dollar industry of advertising.

It's a man and a woman's job to own their own shit.

If women can't keep up with men (which they can't), it's the higher consciousness of the better man to not be a rapist.

[Del Ivers]

It's a man and a woman's job to own their own shit.

As human beings, not just gender-specific, we end up owning whatever in terms of our existence. Mortality is not in the habit of prettily dressing things up, especially in the last lap, just so someone - regardless of gender - can dismiss the results of their actions.

If women can't keep up with men (which they can't), it's the higher consciousness of the better man to not be a rapist.

Isn't the fact that a woman's physiology which is able to create and deliver a human being into existence enough of an indicator that women do more than merely, 'keep up'?

Question: Considering your views, then to what extent are your courtesies? For example, in everyday life do your views as stated in this topic prevail in your conduct toward women or do you alternate between said views and things like being a 'gentleman', opening the door for them, etc.