Finally

[Fixed Cross]

[promethean75]

"and the learning of these things precedes any understanding i might have of how and why they would be valuable."

Does it?

sure it does. the acquisition of knowledge must happen before it can be used, and its only after that use provides some kind of advantage that we call it 'valuable'. when learning how to do math, i had no idea to what use i could put it later in life. i was simply compelled to learn it because i was instructed to... not because i knew that in ten years i'd need it at the grocery store when figuring out how many apples i can afford. but this kind of example doesn't get to the core of the problem of how this term 'value' is being used in this 'VO' stuff, and what the word is supposed to mean. to be honest, i have only a vague memory of a very short lived exchange between myself and jakob the fixed barbarian back at POD (that old forum) about this 'VO'. i remember it was short lived because it didn't take long for me to convince myself i could dismiss it as nonsense. and i don't say this to be insulting or offensive. i'm saying i believe it is nonsense... that it doesn't make sense to me. it may very well produce in your and his head a sense of certainty, clarity and meaning... but that isn't something i can tamper with unless i'm given an opportunity to see what it is that makes sense to you, and point out the problems with those things. you might say the problems are axiomatic; basic definitions are set up which use the word 'value' in ways that are entirely strange and unfamiliar compared to the ordinary understanding of the word and how we use it sensibly. but then at the same time, this obscure use makes it somewhat impervious to critique. i mean the language is so bizarre and esoteric, one can't be sure exactly what one is examining. there are some thing that are so nonsensical they can't even be wrong.

[Mowk]

Potential's still there Cross. Such a re-action, like you've been simmering in it for 4 hours. Must have touched something off.

[Fixed Cross]

It seems we both have ego-issues.

[Meno_]

It seems we both have ego-issues.

Hyothesis always preempt strict determinism, generally speaking, and it is ego, which to a certain extent utilizes learning , to proceed along towhard a certain utility.
At the stage of variable hypothesis, feathers can fly.

[Fixed Cross]

Let me serve as a warning or as a promise I didn't create this situation but I do know what to do with it.

Use the means we have to do anything there is to do on a planet, to make it into a temple to our reverence for it.
A temple is foremost to ones own reverence, the God is the means to the reverence - meaning it needs to be a very suitable god. There is no more suitable object for human reverence than the Earth - this is human will to power; to produce Earthly circumstances which may bring forth a superhuman type. Not to go to the type directly, as our parasites have attempted; but to use the Earth as a means to come back to health, to attain an animal heath for mankind, making it effectively into a creature beyond man.

[Pedro I Rengel]

Now I know you didn't just try to get me to read commentary ON Nietzsche.

Anybody who thinks such a thing constitutes an idea for a book is already a retard and cannot be read.

[Pedro I Rengel]

Your opinion of my diplomacy is touching enough to take seriously, though.

My secret is I don't have to win. I have already won, time after time. Anything but the carefullest of diplomacy would be beneath me.

[Meno_]

Let me serve as a warning or as a promise I didn't create this situation but I do know what to do with it.

Use the means we have to do anything there is to do on a planet, to make it into a temple to our reverence for it.
A temple is foremost to ones own reverence, the God is the means to the reverence - meaning it needs to be a very suitable god. There is no more suitable object for human reverence than the Earth - this is human will to power; to produce Earthly circumstances which may bring forth a superhuman type. Not to go to the type directly, as our parasites have attempted; but to use the Earth as a means to come back to health, to attain an animal heath for mankind, making it effectively into a creature beyond man.

Totally agreed, my comment really reflected back toward 75'suggestion :


"and the learning of these things precedes any understanding i might have of how and why they would be valuable.........

.......Does it?


sure it does. the acquisition of knowledge must happen before it can be used, and its only after that use provides some kind of advantage that we call it 'valuable'. when learning how to do math, i had no idea to what use i could put it later in life. i was simply compelled to learn it because i was instructed to... not because i knew that in ten years i'd need it ......."
--------- -------- ------- ------ ----- ---- --- -- -
This was the primary source of apprehension, because the usage, the value, the awareness, is all but instinctual, leans backwards into instinctive behavior, and is rapidly implicated, implied, induced within automation. The instinct starts at the molecular level, and it is not consistent with knowledge, a-aposteriori. It degrades the original hypothesis, into the non theoretical, breaks it down into the not strict consequentialusm of a probable cause. That is not broken from a goal consistent with an orientation, objective, but does have at it's innermost, lost strict casual sequences.

So the definition of knowledge is up for grabs, and although 75 can define it broadly to include axiomatic, shorted out finer generalizations, he can't argue for it, as a premise. Uncertainty, if anything precludes it.
Russell had the same problem with it with his presumption with 'sense-data's
And so did the behaviorist. The ego, pinned between behavior and it's derivitive can not simply account for it by a pseudo material synthesis, as a convenient attempt to argue value through meaning from both ends.

No wonder, we all will reduce to absurd notions of conflicting goods, (I am) ,. The one eyed ogre had to sense that split vision will develop into an uncertain category/principal, and it needed a mythical hypothesis, as did atomism, to firckise on the indefinite.

But a myth has utility, in trying to tie together irreducibles of far flung objectives of the remote future.

[Mowk]

Yeah, but I am aware mine is bigger. gargantuan. Your puny little ego doesn't stand a chance against a monster like mine.

[Fixed Cross]

Now I know you didn't just try to get me to read commentary ON Nietzsche.

No that wasn't for you.
Still I gotta say,

Anybody who thinks such a thing constitutes an idea for a book is already a retard and cannot be read.

[Pedro I Rengel]

Alright alright...

[Fixed Cross]

Yeah, but I am aware mine is bigger. gargantuan. Your puny little ego doesn't stand a chance against a monster like mine.

I... well, okay. You win.

[Fixed Cross]

My secret is I don't have to win. I have already won, time after time.

No offence but everyone can win at games where they are the only contender. Except promethean of course.
But m only interested in this game I described to Meno, the Earth game. You sure as shucks didn't win that one.

[Pedro I Rengel]

None taken. I think you're a smart damn guy and I'm rootin for ya. And given the right circumstances I might even help ya if needed. Confident as I am that you will shit on that offer.

Me, I just like talking to intelligent men. Issa, damn shame they don't realize the fun of intelligence for intelligence's sake.

I might call on you, one day, to make an album. I hope you will not be a dick about it. I don't like working with you, but you're the only person I would trust to help me make it.

As for the rest, well, cows fart and chickens shit and Pezer keeps on rolling.

[Fixed Cross]

I think Im gonna do something cool.

[Fixed Cross]

Re an earlier point between Meno and me -
It is in general reverence which must return to humanity if we are to make our way out of the sewer we are in today.

The "death of God" was the death of reverence, and afterwards it became "cool" to be dismissive of the worth of anything or anyone that anyone might hold in esteem, and by extension very uncool to truly hold anything in proper esteem. Celebrity - adoration is always coupled with the enjoyment of seeing their down going. Michael Jackson as a good example.

But it was of course inevitable and "right" that reverence for the old "Gott" perished - Luther himself was, I concluded after reading him, the initial curse on "Gott". His was an abysmal contempt for the sixth day of creation.

But anyway, all this Gott-reverence can only be seen as a precursor of sorts to the ultimate reverence, a reverence for a Greatness which reflects back on our own human existence and continuously raises its standards. The Greeks, they knew how and especially where to build their temples; they understood what they were revering. We must become Greek again, all over the world. No matter the cities - give us the cliffs and the rocky shores.

[obsrvr524]

A Trump supporter on This board? How'd that happen?

[Fixed Cross]

A Trump supporter on This board? How'd that happen?

Watchu mean willis... Ive been supporting Trump (first politician I ever could identify with) since before the elections.

The genocidal maggots who are against him are a-plenty but that don't stop us.

[Pedro I Rengel]

You had (and still have) out and out Nazis on this board for the longest time, but it is Trump supporters that shock you?

Goddamn

MAGA

[promethean75]

There's only three ways to deal with Trump supporters. That's neckties, contracts, HIGH VOLTAGE!

[Pedro I Rengel]

Taken from the comments section at breitbart:

Dear sirs,

Bring it!

We are ready.

Sincerely,

The deplorables

[Fixed Cross]

Trump. What a fucking badass. The world had never known a badass like that. And it has changed Everything.

Worms hate, but now they're being consumed by their hatred. Its just too much for them. Like the vision of god face to face is supposed to incinerate the unworthy adept.

Anyway enough about the unworthy.

Salute to the big man.

Man.jpg (62.45 KiB) Viewed 1826 times

[promethean75]

Resourceful and self-sufficient, too. Carries his own toilet paper.

[Mowk]

Carries his own toilet paper.

Yeah, that's a moment in time where there are no do-overs. Wait when do you ever get a do-over?

When making a movie, take 2.