phyllo wrote:Not reduced, but indicated by one number. It makes no sense to you because it makes your beloved system look bad. Anything putting capitalism in a negative light makes no sense.
It doesn't make any system look good or bad because it's all over the place. It makes one scratch his head and ask "what does it mean, if anything?"
I think that says more about you than the research.
I explained that. Because you don't understand it doesn't mean I'm wrong.
If you call Saudi Arabia socialist, then you are tossing away a key concept of socialism which is that "the people" have the political power.
Good point! That's true, but in this case socialism is a function of government spending and not the extent to which the people have control over the government. I can't think of a way to quantify democracy. Can you? I'll be more than happy to research it if you can.
What you are really saying is that any government that spends a lot of money is socialist.
Yes, government spending is an attribute of socialism. Just like democracy is an attribute of socialism. Saudi Arabia has a lot of government spending and large welfare, but the people have no control over government. So on one hand it seems socialistic, but on the other not. But at the end of the day, the money is being spread around to the people and that has to be considered socialism. In Egypt, the money is not spread to the people and the people have no control over their government, so Egypt is anti-socialistic.
Really?
Redistribution / lack of redistribution. Gov spending / lack of gov spending. Taxation / lack of taxation. Regulation / lack of regulation. Gov ownership / private ownership. Socialism / capitalism.
Apple / lack of apple.
Now you got it!
Show me a capitalist who wants more taxes, gov spending, regulation, and government ownership.
Didn't you post at least two examples of capitalists who want their taxes raised? (I forget which thread it was in.)
Buffett and Gates and the Patriotic Millionaires are crusading to raise their own taxes, and they have capitalized off a capitalist system, but Buffett said if he ran for president, his campaign would look a lot like Bernie's. He advocates taking care of the population that made him rich. He thinks the burden of government spending should be on his shoulders and not those of the lower classes. Buffett supported Hillary for president (because he didn't think Bernie had a chance of winning). Essentially, Buffett is crusading to reduce his capital and that of his peers for the purpose of taking care of society. And republicans hate Buffett almost as much as Paul Krugman.
Capitalists, such as Peter Schiff, want zero minimum wage, no taxes whatsoever, no welfare, no regulation, and no government ownership. They believe the invisible hand of the free market will usher in a utopia. Per Noam Chomsky, this is a distortion of the teaching of Adam Smith (I haven't verified that).
I think that KT spent several pages discussing gov spending and regulation with you. No need for me to repeat it.
He argued that the capitalist desires government regulation for their own benefit, and that includes government spending by the military on R&D for the corporations (socialization of costs/privatization of profits) and government spending on infrastructure that corporations use, but on the other hand, it depends where the government money is coming from. If the corps themselves are being taxed to fund the military research and fix the roads, then it's not plutocratic/capitalistic, but socialistic because the military and the road crews are regular people receiving wages from the corporate tax. On the other hand, if government spending is coming from gas taxes and other taxes on the poor, then it's not socialistic since the poor are funding their own welfare and government workers are supplying their own wages.
It's definitely more complex than just one statistic, but all I'm doing is showing the general trend as it relates to government spending. As Chomsky said, I think we can draw some conclusions from that.
I know. That's what I said. It can work great until it doesn't.
That's why the power has to be in the hands of "the people" instead of the despot. Socialists understand.
Yes, I agree.
Whatever the data says is what it says. Check it yourself; I posted the data.
I did. I looked up the report. Fortunately you did not need to plot Saudi Arabia on the graph, (or China or Singapore). Freedom scores : Finland 100, Saudi Arabia 7.
So your point is that both Finland and Saudi Arabia spend government money, but one has freedom and the other not? This was covered above, I think.
Better be down with socialism then. The police state is a republican thing.
That was my lame attempt to move the conversation on to something more productive ... if we want freedom, what exactly do we want to be happening?
The easiest thing to do is support Bernie.
https://twitter.com/BernieSandersBernie
[email protected]Tens of thousands of Americans every year get criminal records for possessing marijuana.
Meanwhile ZERO major Wall Street executives went to jail for destroying our economy in 2008 as a result of their greed, recklessness and illegal behavior.
Unacceptable.
Bernie
[email protected]No more private prisons and detention centers.
No more profiteering from locking people up.
No more "war on drugs."
No more keeping people in jail because they're too poor to afford cash bail.
[email protected] has a simple, moral vision for America's future. Instead of spending $6 trillion on endless wars, we need to invest in:
✅ Healthcare
✅ Education
✅ Infrastructure
✅ Clean Energy
"Real police department reform led at the federal level, which says that lethal force is the LAST resort not the FIRST." @BernieSanders #BernieInChicago
"Together we are going to end austerity for working families and bring some austerity to corporate America."
[email protected]In the last decade, more than 30 states have considered voter suppression laws whose clear intent is to disenfranchise people of color. How pathetic and how cowardly is that! #BernieInChicago
We will no longer accept the absurd situation where large corporations like Amazon, Netflix and General Motors pay nothing in federal income taxes after raking in billions in profits. #BernieInChicago
At a time of massive income and wealth inequality, am I going to demand that the very rich and large corporations start paying their fair share in taxes? Damn right I am. #SandersTownHall
Where are we going to get the money to pay for our priorities? To start, Amazon made $11.2 billion in profits last year. You know how much they paid in taxes? $0. We're going to change that. #SandersTownHall
What are the biggest threats to freedom?
Republicans.
Noam Chomsky: Republican Party is the most dangerous organisation in human historyLack of education. Educated people make better political decisions.