Faust wrote:Alf wrote:There is no contradiction between being a poor and being a well educated white. Either you (a) are too dumb to know the facts (and correct premises), or you (b) use bogus arguments - rhetorically or not rhetorically (see: a).
I am not claiming there is a contradiction. That's just the wrong word. Absent mental illness, a physical disability or some behavior that both costs money and prevents the earning of money, it's unusual for any american who has an education to be truly poor. This is more especially so for white people than for most minorities. Hippies, who are not very common, don't care about money, so shouldn't be complaining.
So far, you have offered no clues to my question. Although you are not who I asked.
What's it all about, Alfie?
Faust wrote:So, Otto,you're poor and educated. And white. Can you explain why you are all of these things? I mean why you are white and educated yet poor? I talk to poor white people a lot. Mostly, they're mentally ill or lazy. Or they just don't care much about money. Or they have a drug problem. What is your story?
Faust wrote:I am curious to know why any educated person, especially a white one, can be chronically poor. I do know that there can be reasons, some of which I have mentioned. None of those may be the reason why otto is poor, despite being educated. It could be a physical disability. I don't know, which is why I am asking.
Wendy, most americans are not poor.
Most americans do have a social network.
Most americans don't work in tech, per se.
I have heard wages as high as $18.00/hr which is a living wage here
WendyDarling wrote:Wendy, most americans are not poor.
What USA are you from? People buy Chinese socks because they cannot afford $10+ for a pair of socks. If you are in Vermont, that is a white, affluent, snobby state...so what the hell do you know in your insulated bubble of BS? I know I'm wasting my time discussing common sense stuff for that is not your forte...like the reality that 50% of the folks earn under $35,000 and once the baby boomers (who make more collecting retirement pensions and social security pay than full-time workers now) die the 50% will jump to 80%. Ask yourself, why the poverty level on our tax forms hasn't risen since the 1990's or possibly even before then? The poverty level on the tax forms is what $25,000 and it's been that way for at least 30 years because Congress can't raise that figure or the government will eliminate a huge portion of their tax revenue. It took 30 years for the minimum wage to double, but the cost of living has risen three times that rate.
My favorite are the people who live off of their credit cards to make ends meet as they fall into poverty. They do not earn enough to cover the rising expenses so they subsidize with the good intentions of paying back those credit cards, but the payback portion never happens.
Your work experiences decades ago don't count Faust 'cuz times have changed or haven't you taken the time to honestly notice?
Regardless, the feds could raise the minimum wage with or without immigration. It should be raised, regardless of immigration. But this still does not answer my question. People with an education can easily get jobs that pay more than the minimum wage and in fact, many states have higher MW's than the federal rate.
WendyDarling wrote:Regardless, the feds could raise the minimum wage with or without immigration. It should be raised, regardless of immigration. But this still does not answer my question. People with an education can easily get jobs that pay more than the minimum wage and in fact, many states have higher MW's than the federal rate.
How is it that some states have no minimum wage or it falls well below the national minimum of $7.25? How can someone survive on $15 hr. in NYC? The swamp needs draining NOW!
Colleges aren't recommending jobs that ensure economic security to incoming students, so the kids are getting degrees in fields that no longer offer opportunities. Sure, those with bachelors degrees can wait tables while they pursue their master's degrees in a field where good paying jobs exist, which is what many are doing because most bachelors degrees are worthless these days, a dime a dozen.
What do you consider a decent income for a bachelor's degree holder?
BTW, household income is a much better measure of poverty, for what I hope to be obvious reasons. The median HH income is in the $55,000 range.
The stats don't bear out your claim about the worth of bachelor's degrees.
This is a very nanny state view. What you are saying implies that government step in and ensure that everyone gets at least a wage that allows them to live comfortably in any community, including Manhattan. And that colleges be required to guide every student to a lucrative career. Very liberal stuff.
WendyDarling wrote:Faust wrote:Wendy, most americans are not poor.
What USA are you from? People buy Chinese socks because they cannot afford $10+ for a pair of socks. If you are in Vermont, that is a white, affluent, snobby state...so what the hell do you know in your insulated bubble of BS? I know I'm wasting my time discussing common sense stuff for that is not your forte...like the reality that 50% of the folks earn under $35,000 and once the baby boomers (who make more collecting retirement pensions and social security pay than full-time workers now) die the 50% will jump to 80%. Ask yourself, why the poverty level on our tax forms hasn't risen since the 1990's or possibly even before then? The poverty level on the tax forms is what $25,000 and it's been that way for at least 30 years because Congress can't raise that figure or the government will eliminate a huge portion of their tax revenue. It took 30 years for the minimum wage to double, but the cost of living has risen three times that rate.
My favorite are the people who live off of their credit cards to make ends meet as they fall into poverty. They do not earn enough to cover the rising expenses so they subsidize with the good intentions of paying back those credit cards, but the payback portion never happens.
Your work experiences decades ago don't count Faust 'cuz times have changed or haven't you taken the time to honestly notice?
WendyDarling wrote:BTW, household income is a much better measure of poverty, for what I hope to be obvious reasons. The median HH income is in the $55,000 range.
My parents (bachelor degree holders) earned more than that back in the 1980's, so thirty years ago that was a decent, middle-class hh income. Now it's more like $110,000 needed to remain middle-class, but more than 50% of hh incomes fall way short of that. What's sad is that many poor people believe that they are actually middle-class.
WendyDarling wrote:The stats don't bear out your claim about the worth of bachelor's degrees.
Source of current stats?
WendyDarling wrote:BTW, household income is a much better measure of poverty, for what I hope to be obvious reasons. The median HH income is in the $55,000 range.
My parents (bachelor degree holders) earned more than that back in the 1980's, so thirty years ago that was a decent, middle-class hh income. Now it's more like $110,000 needed to remain middle-class, but more than 50% of hh incomes fall way short of that. What's sad is that many poor people believe that they are actually middle-class.
Faust wrote:WendyDarling wrote:The stats don't bear out your claim about the worth of bachelor's degrees.
Source of current stats?
There are many easily googled sources. I asked for your source since you are under the delusion that you know something.
"Careers are born in colleges so they have a responsibility to make students aware that what their parents had no longer exists, those careers have been phased out in availability and incomes. Since when is common sense a liberal mindset? Sorry, you are wrong. Since when is Manhattan the whole of NYC?
I keep asking you questions, why won't you be honest with your answers?"
This is remarkable. No personal responsibility. It's always someone else's fault.
L-I-B-E-R-A-L.
What I care about is bad arguments.
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