the point of education....

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the point of education....

Postby Peter Kropotkin » Thu Oct 28, 2021 4:22 pm

Now Observe is whining about how parents have no say in their children
education... but of course, he fails to ask the right question...
what is the point of education? Why do we educate children?
what is the value of education?

let us begin at the top and state for the record, I am a father,
I sent my daughter to the American educational system...
so already I am unlike Observe (who isn't even an American)
and like most of the people here, aren't married with children....
(it would be an interesting poll question.. who is married with children on ILP)

I had a friend who would rail against the American education system
and all its failures, but and this is important, he wasn't married nor
did he have children in the American educational system...he was
talking, at best, with second hand knowledge about what did or didn't happen
in the American educational system....
as does Observe and a great many posters here, talking about things they
have no direct knowledge about...the American educational system....

but they never faced up to the really important question of education,
what is the point of being educated?

on the face of it, education is simply a means to impart facts to children....
the American Declaration of Independence was signed on July 4, 1776......
this is a fact taught to all children at some point in their educational
process....and the children get tested on their knowledge of these facts,
but the real question is this, the Declaration was signed on the fourth of July,
so what? what does it matter if the declaration was signed on the fourth
or the third or in September or in March? it is not enough to teach that
certain events occurred on certain days....

the question really is, why does the declaration matter? It isn't the when,
but the why that matters in discussing the declaration....
Why is declaration so important? not when or where was it signed....
but what does it mean? How does that impact our lives today?
what lessons can we learn from the why of the declaration of Independence?

the point of the declaration, at least from the framers standpoint, was
to create a mission statement about why we should break free from
England.. and create our own nation, with its own laws and rules...

but from the very start, conservatives have done battle with that mission
statement... the most important line in the declaration is this:

"that all men are created equal"...

and that simple statement goes against everything a conservative believes in...
that god is above humans and that Angels are also above humans, but we humans
are above ants or cows.... and within that hierarchy, men are above women,
and whites are above blacks or anyone of color.....that is what conservatives
believe in...

that institutional racism is baked into the American system is quite clear....
from the very start....note the "three-fifths compromise" reached during
the 1787 constitutional convention.....slaves were counted as 3/5 of each
slave state population for seats in the house of Representative and for
taxes purposes....but should we note this clearly racists notion?
not according to conservatives who hold against the CRT theory which talks
about such systematic racism that had been instituted in America....
but according to the conservatives, we should not be teaching this to children,
and once again I ask, why not? why not teach or educate children
as to this clear and obvious point of American history.......our systemic
racism that was baked into our laws, history, education and daily life......

so, I will return shortly to detail this more clearly.....

Kropotkin
Now if only I could get the other "members of the collection of truth"
to put me on ignore, life would be good..

PK
Peter Kropotkin
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Posts: 10273
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Re: the point of education....

Postby Peter Kropotkin » Thu Oct 28, 2021 4:50 pm

and we return....

so what exactly is the point of education?
for centuries, it was to teach men to become "gentlemen"...
it had nothing to teach the average person because the average person,
was a servant or worked the land... how does being educated, knowing
that the date of the declaration of independence, help one who is a slave or
works the field? so, what is the point of being educated?

is the point of being educated to hold a job? to have a career?
or is being educated something more?

the ideal in todays America is be a good consumer, a good workers,
a good producer... and that is the value of modern America education...
to provide consumers, producers, and workers for the real business of America,
which is to make money/profits.....

to create vast wealth for those who own the means of production,
to create wealth for the 1% who own these country...so the goal of education
is to provide workers, producers and consumers that keep the wealthy, wealthy....

and now we see the point of modern education...only educate people
enough so the can play their role of being a consumer, worker,
producer....to create workers that create profits, that is the goal of the American educational
system today.....

but what should be the goal of education?

Kropotkin
Now if only I could get the other "members of the collection of truth"
to put me on ignore, life would be good..

PK
Peter Kropotkin
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Posts: 10273
Joined: Thu Apr 07, 2005 1:47 am
Location: blue state

Re: the point of education....

Postby Peter Kropotkin » Thu Oct 28, 2021 5:25 pm

if the point of "education" to create workers, producers and consumers,
who gives a fuck if parents approve or don't approve..... the goal is
the creation of a working class that only mission is to create profits for
big business and the 1%.....If that is the goal, what am I approving or
disapproving of? that my children point of existence is to create wealth/
profits for the upper class.....but what, what if I want more?

I hold a different point or reason for education.... what if education
is to help us to see our possibilities... to help us see what we might
become as human beings, not as workers, or consumers but as human beings....

I hold that this search for increasing our GDP is hurting us as human beings....
I would gladly sacrifice much of our GDP if we could become
more aware of what is possible for us, as human beings....

if the goal of existence isn't to create wealth, then what is the goal?

and that question becomes the point of education...what is the point
of existence? what should we seek, if we do not seek
wealth, power, fame, titles?

the point of education is to seek out what is possible for me as a human being;
I hold that the modern quest for wealth/profits is nihilism..
the denial of that which makes me human and those values which specifically
make me human....the modern corporate life denies such values as hope,
peace, love, justice among other values because they don't do not
bring about money/profits.... the modern corporate world has no need
for those values which is the highest values of being human....

the highest value of being isn't the creation of wealth or profits,
but the highest value of being human lies in the acceptance of
values like hope, love, peace, honor, justice... those values
are what makes us human, fully human.... accepting the corporate
values which is what is taught in schools, of making money/profits,
is what is causing the decline of our human nature..... we are what we
believe in..to deny our very possibilities is to deny our human nature...

to grow as beings, going from animal, to animal/human to becoming
fully human... that is the point of existence... to become fully human...
and we do that by our accepting those values which make us fully human....
not just the vile pursuit of wealth/profits, which denies us our human
nature, but that which incorporates and accepts that we are what we
seek in becoming our possibilities.... to seek our possibilities is what
it means to be human, not the vulgar search for wealth/money/profits,
for that search denies what it means to be human....

so education really means seeking out our possibilities in becoming human...
we become educated to seek out our values by which we live out our life...
so becoming educated becomes a search for what values we should hold
and live by......not the mere seeking the nihilistic values of seeking money/profits....

to becoming human requires us to seek those values which is the highest values
we can hold....thus education is to teach us the value of existence...not just
to hold a job which only exists to create money/profits/wealth for the corporation
or the wealth individual who owns the means of production....

we no longer work for others, we work to seek out what values we should
hold as human beings...... we work to become something more then just
consumers/producers/workers..... that is the lowest possibility of being
human.. I seek the highest value of becoming human... which is the values
that we need to be human beings, not just workers......values like love,
peace, justice, honor, those are the values we should be seeking, not just
to become another cog in the machine... as we are right now.....

Kropotkin
Now if only I could get the other "members of the collection of truth"
to put me on ignore, life would be good..

PK
Peter Kropotkin
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Re: the point of education....

Postby Mr Reasonable » Thu Oct 28, 2021 6:26 pm

he's just drinking mike flynn's kool aid. next week it'll be the next thing they tell him to say.
You see...a pimp's love is very different from that of a square.


Dating a stripper is like eating a noisy bag of chips in church. Everyone looks at you in disgust, but deep down they want some too.
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Re: the point of education....

Postby Peter Kropotkin » Thu Oct 28, 2021 6:30 pm

let us look at one aspect of the American educational system....
the assimilation of the American universities/collages into
the military industrial complex....

the best way to think of this is by asking what gets funded in
American collages? if the project has some possible military
application, it will get funded by the military.. if it doesn't,
it won't be funded and it dies of neglect.... simple as that...
the military/industrial complex has taken over the entire educational system
at the university level....

and what is the goal of the military/industrial complex?
if you believe it is to "protect" America, you are being naive...
the goal of business, any business is to make profits....and that
is the goal of the military/industrial complex... to make profits...

if the goal was to actual protect America, the politicians wouldn't be
selling the products of the military/industrial complex to those who might
harm America... for example, we sell weapons to Saudi Arabia... now the
Saudi's quite clearly funded 9/11 and out of the 19 terrorist engaged in
9/11, 15 were from Saudi Arabia....do the math....
the goal of the military/industrial complex is to make profits, not
to protect America....

so if the military/industrial complex has taken over the educational
system of America at the university level, then the point is to the
creation of profits, not the education of people.....and to that point,
to educate people into holding higher values of love, peace, hope, charity,
justice isn't what creates profits....to create workers, producers, consumers
that is the point of our educational system....not to create human beings,
but to create workers....

this hijacking of the American educational system by the military/industrial
complex was begun during the second world war....and by the start of
Vietnam war, it was in complete control of the higher educational system....

so we have the military/industrial complex holding the university
system hostage.. and what has happened in America since then?

we in America have become far less "educated" since....if the point
of being educated is to be able to think for oneself, then we have lost
that ability through the takeover of the educational system by the "complex"...

Independent thought isn't a goal of the military/industrial complex...
following orders, submission of self to a "higher" goal is the point of
the this takeover of the American educational system....
recall the greatest crime in America today, insubordination....
that is a military idea....to question one's country is to be called
a "Liberal" a "terrorist" a "communist" and yet the fundamental
value of a democracy is to question, is to wonder about the path
being taken... to question orders is the greatest crime in
the military... as is now the greatest crime in America today...

so by the "education" of children into not questioning the "Orders",
we have a military education.. that of following orders is the
highest value we teach children... to obey is the point of modern
education...to follow orders is what we are taught today in school..

to be a good worker, to be a good consumer, to be a good producer is
to follow orders, to not question them...in my crappy company, if I ask
what is the point of following this line of action, I could be charged
with insubordination and fired... if you are not an obedient drone,
you will get punished in a variety of ways, you get crappy hours,
you get crappy tasks to accomplish, you won't get promoted,
the drone who get treated well in corporate America are the ones who
do not question orders...and obey them.. regardless of whether they
help or harm people....to help or harm people is a value rejected
by corporate America... to make profits, to make money.. that is the only
value honored by corporate America....

to continue this point, when we review history, we see that those
who have publicly vowed to destroy the institutions of the civilization,
such as Hitler, Mao, Stalin, Lenin.... were all supported by wealthy
companies and individuals.... they don't care about whether we exists
in a democracy or if we have rights or freedoms.. all they care about is
profits/wealth.. no other value is of interest to corporate America or
to the military/industrial complex...

history teaches us that the pursuit of wealth creates nothing of value...
think of the great creations of human beings, the arts, science, philosophy,
writings of people like Da Vinci, Newton, Goethe, Kant, Nietzsche, Van Gogh...
were they driven by the pursuit of wealth?

was Jesus or Mohammed or Luther driven by the pursuit of wealth?

Was Gandhi or MLK driven by wealth?

no.....

so let us follow the lessons of history and seek our possibilities and
not seek our own personal wealth or increasing the American GDP....

so what is actually important to being human?

what is the goal/point of being human if it isn't the pursuit of wealth?

Kropotkin
Now if only I could get the other "members of the collection of truth"
to put me on ignore, life would be good..

PK
Peter Kropotkin
ILP Legend
 
Posts: 10273
Joined: Thu Apr 07, 2005 1:47 am
Location: blue state

Re: the point of education....

Postby Peter Kropotkin » Thu Oct 28, 2021 6:44 pm

Mr Reasonable wrote:he's just drinking mike flynn's kool aid. next week it'll be the next thing they tell him to say.


K; that Observe couldn't hold an original thought to save his life,
is quite clear, and that he is quite uneducated is also clear....for to be
educated is to be able to clearly state one's values, and all of observe's
values ( as is pedro's and UR values are derived) from a poor education...
They can only repeat what they have heard elsewhere... nothing original or
new.... just verbatim repetition of whatever they have heard on Faux news...

notice the very limited number of idea's and opinions they offer us.....
it is very limited... they never offer us any thoughts on ethics, or the government's
value or what it means to be a conservative or what is ART? they have no thoughts
in those matters because Faux news doesn't offer them these thoughts...

what is beauty? if Faux News created a piece on what is beauty, suddenly
Observe and Pedro and even Windy, would suddenly become an expert
on, what is beauty..

they are nothing more then monkeys just repeating what they hear....

Kropotkin
Now if only I could get the other "members of the collection of truth"
to put me on ignore, life would be good..

PK
Peter Kropotkin
ILP Legend
 
Posts: 10273
Joined: Thu Apr 07, 2005 1:47 am
Location: blue state


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