The New Left

Half-formed posts, inchoate philosophies, and the germs of deep thought.

Re: The New Left

Postby Urwrongx1000 » Tue Apr 27, 2021 1:06 am

Gloominary wrote:The left is whatever belief (system) threatens the powers that be.
For Pagan Rome, Christianity, along with some other religions like Manichaeism, was a threat, because many Christians wouldn't kneel before Caesar, and because while many Christians were docile, some were militant communists, and because all of them were just too bizarre for Rome, so they persecuted them.
But the more they martyred, the more converted.
After a couple centuries the empire was teeming with them.
Even some of the elite were converting.

If you can't beat it, join it, or rather, co-opt it.
The more Rome's upperclass converted, the more Christianity's radicalness diluted.
Could a Roman emperor really be Christian?
Weren't Christians to relinquish their power and give their wares to the poor?
Rome's ruling class became theologians and began debating these things.
'Why yes, yes of course, a Christian could be a rich, powerful patrician, in charge of sentencing poor farmers to death for not paying their taxes'.
And the pope could wear a big hat and waddle around the palace worth a fortune, enough to feed a poor country in Africa for generations.
And so the bible was forbidden from being read by Christian plebs who came to accept the emperor and pope's reign because, 'they were one of us now, 1st among equals'.
Finally they would kneel before the emperor.
And so the left, the antiestablishment, was co-opted, made toothless.
The bits that were compatible, were preserved, the bits that weren't, discarded, or watered down.

Several centuries ago, classical liberalism, Protestantism and science were subversive, leftwing.
In many countries the clergy, nobility and royalty were overthrown and replaced with republics, in others they were restrained.
Gradually this lead to a period where there was no clear ruling class, but after awhile a group of banksters, bureaucrats and corporations began practicing monopoly capitalism.
The liberal democracy was largely corrupted.
Socialists, some wanting to merely reform liberal democracy, others wanting to topple and replace it with a 'proletariat dictatorship', and anarchists, the new left, emerged to challenge liberal democracy, the new right.
Most of these socialists were atheists, a challenge to the Protestant establishment.

Science, classical liberalism and Protestantism, Socialism and atheism, arguably had successes and failures.
Now wouldn't the new ruling class, these bureaucrats and businessmen, these monopoly men, try to co-opt these movements, rather than overtly oppose them?
Well that's exactly what they did, but I think increasingly the former, classical liberalism and Protestantism, is outliving its usefulness for them.
Classical liberalism and Protestantism is sort of like Paganism in the late Roman empire, the old dog, scientism, socialism and atheism, the new dog, is sort of like Christianity, its teeth are being filed down, so it has no bite.
They know revolution is coming, that the masses don't have much of a future, so they're leading the opposition.
The changes they're making, are mostly cosmetic, like dolling and jazzing up a corpse.
The issues once paramount to socialism, are pushed to the side, while the molehills are made into mountains.
The movement lead by the rich and powerful.

I try to see the good and bad in everything, in science, classical liberalism, Protestantism, socialism and atheism.
I think all these movements had their pluses and minuses.
The elite tries to see opportunity, even in their opposition, especially in it.
I see science and socialism changing from things that could be used to challenge the status quo and free people in all sorts of ways, into a kind of religion, with a hierarchy of popes, bishops, cardinals, priests and laymen.
Into something that legitimizes a rigid hierarchy, a faith in woke politicians and technocrats, in woke industries, medicine and media, instead of the people having more faith in themselves, organizing things grassroots.
I think scientism and wokism could have great staying power, they could become the dominant religion of our times, for decades or even centuries to come.
Woke is the new clothes the old establishment wears, woke is in fact, rightwing.

Anglos and Jews aligned and reformed after the 1940s and 1950s, when the Holocaust survivors emigrated West or East. Many went to the Soviet Union which immediately enacted their Communist-Marxist ideologies. In the United States, this has taken longer. The Jewish rise to power in the US occurred as co-marriages between Christians and Jews occurred in centuries past. But now USA sees the results of this today, as the Communist-Marxist takeover has officially started through BLM, Antifa, and the fraudulent 2020 election, illegally ousting and Censoring (violation of the First Amendment) the sitting US President.

The Jews which came from fleeing Nazi-Germany immediately went to work on USA, taking over Hollywood first, then colleges and universities throughout the nation. Now, almost 4 or 5 generations later, the effects cannot be denied.


However, the Anglo-Establishment Protestants are not Catholics. Puritans are, overall, radical fanatical Christians themselves, which later morphed to now as primarily Mormons and Evangelicals, who are the most populous of the Western Christian variants.

The radicalization of the last decade, is the process of all the factors of the previous century. I do not believe, at this point, that USA can stop the flood. The flood-gates and flood-walls are already broken through.


Perhaps USA will regress into hardline, fundamental "Post-Christian" religions. That might be the only viable method of preserving "traditional" America or "traditional" culture. Something Akin to Catholicism, but not the same. Catholicism cannot win over USA because of the inherent Anti-Catholic sentiment of Protestants, who detest earthly authorities. They share this in common with Jews.
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Re: The New Left

Postby Peter Kropotkin » Tue Apr 27, 2021 1:47 am

Urwrongx1000:
Anglos and Jews aligned and reformed after the 1940s and 1950s, when the Holocaust survivors emigrated West or East. Many went to the Soviet Union which immediately enacted their Communist-Marxist ideologies.

K: this is flatly wrong....by 1940, communism has been in the Soviet Union over 20 years....
and immigrated wouldn't be the word I would use..... recall that the Soviet union
simply took over the countries that it had invaded in its war on Germany...annexed
would be a far better word then immigrated... few were willing to go to the Soviet
Union... more went west, a whole lot more.... you are just wrong, historically and otherwise....

UR: In the United States, this has taken longer. The Jewish rise to power in the US occurred as co-marriages between Christians and Jews occurred in centuries past. But now USA sees the results of this today, as the Communist-Marxist takeover has officially started through BLM, Antifa, and the fraudulent 2020 election, illegally ousting and Censoring (violation of the First Amendment) the sitting US President.

K: more whinning from the king of the whine...never have anything hopeful or positive to say

UR: The Jews which came from fleeing Nazi-Germany immediately went to work on USA, taking over Hollywood first, then colleges and universities throughout the nation. Now, almost 4 or 5 generations later, the effects cannot be denied.

K: random statements with no context.... you have simply strung together
words that have no connective tissue... put your words into context.. give them some
meaning....

UR: However, the Anglo-Establishment Protestants are not Catholics. Puritans are, overall, radical fanatical Christians themselves, which later morphed to now as primarily Mormons and Evangelicals, who are the most populous of the Western Christian variants.

K: show us how badly your education in Russia is, Mormons are not a very large spread
religion.... there are, at best, pockets of them especially in the west....and virtually no
one is a "Puritan".. that word went out 200 years ago...

UR: The radicalization of the last decade, is the process of all the factors of the previous century. I do not believe, at this point, that USA can stop the flood. The flood-gates and flood-walls are already broken through.
Perhaps USA will regress into hardline, fundamental "Post-Christian" religions. That might be the only viable method of preserving "traditional" America or "traditional" culture. Something Akin to Catholicism, but not the same. Catholicism cannot win over USA because of the inherent Anti-Catholic sentiment of Protestants, who detest earthly authorities. They share this in common with Jews.[/quote]

K: well given how badly you have predicted everything since sept, I would say, don't bet
on the horses... you have been badly wrong about, well everything since then....
IQ45 still isn't the president... the courts have rule against you in every single court,
the Jan 6, attempt failed... Biden is quite popular, the end is in sight for the pandemic,
the economy is booming and the growth of the economy for 2021 is around 6 to 8%..
the single largest growth predicted, ever....you have been wrong every single step..
the stock market is at its highest level ever.... you could be more wrong, but I don't see how.....

leave the predictions to the weatherman... you suck at it....

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Re: The New Left

Postby Urwrongx1000 » Tue Apr 27, 2021 1:54 am

Peter Kropotkin wrote:Urwrongx1000:
Anglos and Jews aligned and reformed after the 1940s and 1950s, when the Holocaust survivors emigrated West or East. Many went to the Soviet Union which immediately enacted their Communist-Marxist ideologies.

K: this is flatly wrong....by 1940, communism has been in the Soviet Union over 20 years....

I didn't say Russia wasn't Communist before. I said Jews escaping Nazi Germany brought their own Marxist and Communist ideologies there as well, and accelerated what was already in place.



Peter Kropotkin wrote:and immigrated wouldn't be the word I would use..... recall that the Soviet union
simply took over the countries that it had invaded in its war on Germany...annexed
would be a far better word then immigrated... few were willing to go to the Soviet
Union... more went west, a whole lot more.... you are just wrong, historically and otherwise....

I'm not wrong.

I didn't quantify how many went West or East. You would know this if you actually read what I write, instead of pretending that you know what I think, when you clearly don't.



Peter Kropotkin wrote:UR: In the United States, this has taken longer. The Jewish rise to power in the US occurred as co-marriages between Christians and Jews occurred in centuries past. But now USA sees the results of this today, as the Communist-Marxist takeover has officially started through BLM, Antifa, and the fraudulent 2020 election, illegally ousting and Censoring (violation of the First Amendment) the sitting US President.

K: more whinning from the king of the whine...never have anything hopeful or positive to say

See, this is the crux of your "arguments", Kropotkin.

It's always the same with you.

If you want Hope, find religion. You're on the wrong forum. Gloominary and I are merely proscribing what has already taken effect. A Diagnosis of Western Civilization. Hope and Fear has nothing to do with it.

That's your own emotivism corrupting your brain. As-if I need to appeal to YOUR insecurities???
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Re: The New Left

Postby Urwrongx1000 » Tue Apr 27, 2021 3:37 am

To Gloominary,

I just caught this video, very relevant on the conversation. It's about what happened to "Americans" and what it means to be an American anymore, or even a Man. I see that on this forum everywhere. Traitors and Treason committed against what it used to mean to be American. People don't defend the flag, American Culture, statues, etc. The rot is deep in this country, as half of the country turns on the other half. One side full of hatred and evil, with no regard or understanding to history. Then Kropotkin, thread after thread, claims "Antifa" is righteous while they impose fascism on the other hand. It's sickening.

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Re: The New Left

Postby Peter Kropotkin » Tue Apr 27, 2021 4:22 am

Urwrongx1000 wrote:
Peter Kropotkin wrote:Urwrongx1000:
Anglos and Jews aligned and reformed after the 1940s and 1950s, when the Holocaust survivors emigrated West or East. Many went to the Soviet Union which immediately enacted their Communist-Marxist ideologies.

K: this is flatly wrong....by 1940, communism has been in the Soviet Union over 20 years....

I didn't say Russia wasn't Communist before. I said Jews escaping Nazi Germany brought their own Marxist and Communist ideologies there as well, and accelerated what was already in place.



Peter Kropotkin wrote:and immigrated wouldn't be the word I would use..... recall that the Soviet union
simply took over the countries that it had invaded in its war on Germany...annexed
would be a far better word then immigrated... few were willing to go to the Soviet
Union... more went west, a whole lot more.... you are just wrong, historically and otherwise....

I'm not wrong.

I didn't quantify how many went West or East. You would know this if you actually read what I write, instead of pretending that you know what I think, when you clearly don't.



Peter Kropotkin wrote:UR: In the United States, this has taken longer. The Jewish rise to power in the US occurred as co-marriages between Christians and Jews occurred in centuries past. But now USA sees the results of this today, as the Communist-Marxist takeover has officially started through BLM, Antifa, and the fraudulent 2020 election, illegally ousting and Censoring (violation of the First Amendment) the sitting US President.

K: more whinning from the king of the whine...never have anything hopeful or positive to say

See, this is the crux of your "arguments", Kropotkin.

It's always the same with you.

If you want Hope, find religion. You're on the wrong forum. Gloominary and I are merely proscribing what has already taken effect. A Diagnosis of Western Civilization. Hope and Fear has nothing to do with it.

That's your own emotivism corrupting your brain. As-if I need to appeal to YOUR insecurities???



K; and the problem here is you are simply wrong about your description of America today....
your diagnosis is simply wrong as is your cure...... ...... but being wrong is pretty much
what you do.....

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Re: The New Left

Postby Urwrongx1000 » Tue Apr 27, 2021 4:27 am

That means nothing coming from you, Kropotkin, put up or shut up.

Now quit interrupting the adult conversation.
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Re: The New Left

Postby Urwrongx1000 » Tue Apr 27, 2021 5:05 am

I believe we are moving forward away from Left & Right to Establishment versus Anti-Establishment.

The Establishment is Left & Right, Democrat & Republican, however it is guilty of the following.

They takeaway the police in one hand, and disarm you on the other, leaving Americans defenseless and victimized. The more victims, the better, according to the Establishment:

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Re: The New Left

Postby Urwrongx1000 » Tue Apr 27, 2021 5:05 am

The Establishment, which has betrayed the American people (proved by Trump), now seeks to victimize the American people, to keep citizens subjugated through fear, so they can move onto the next steps of solidifying their political power.
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Re: The New Left

Postby Fixed Cross » Tue Apr 27, 2021 2:34 pm

Urwrongx1000 wrote:I want to return to Fixed's recent point.

Apathy is probably the #1 factor for the recent decades and up to now. The Conservative-Right is apathetic, and sitting idly by, bitching as America crumbles out underneath.

There's much being said in this thread now that makes sense. Im glad. You and Gloominary are reliable figures. There's thankfully a lot of good thinking on the Conservative side, but what is lacking is spirit. We can translate this, for pragmatic reasons, very loosely into ideology, belief in ideology. Will, not merely willingness, but desire to do battle. Doesn't mean physical warfare necessarily. Just putting in extreme effort to overwhelm the adversary. The left has that, in its cataclysmic slave morality explosion. Its not a sound spirit or a wholesome spirit or a noble or just or reasonable or wise spirit, not beautiful, not worthy of anything, but it exists. And when there is no resistance to it, it keeps on 'winning' even though every piece of victory it has is death unto itself, as the left relies wholly on the work of the right. Progressives always rely entirely on the work of conservatives. That is simply a natural law.
So the right does have all the cards in their hands, but they refuse to play them. They're apparently not strong enough in their beliefs. And this takes me back to Christianity.
What does Jesus say to the Christians?

- Render unto Caesar what is his, seems to be the message the right has taken most to heart. And it is in this sense that Christianity deviates from its Judaic roots, its tenacity, its willingness to resist the oppressor with all that it has in its heart.
In turn, this relates, I think, to the chasm that the church has always enforced between Jews and Christians - between the cultural tree of Christianity and its root, which is religious Judaism. Im not talking about Jews in US politics - these are 99 percent secular. I cant speak to Israel, that is too complex, but what drives Israel is a religious, even occult motive, which is unwise to express here too lightly, as it is rather high stakes at the moment.
My take is that the Right need to ally with religious Jews, the Hasidim and them - there is no doubt that in such an alliance, the pair would be invincible.
Also because the Nordic Europeans would laugh very hard at this union and join them for sheer battle-lust. Vikings don't really hold grudges or exclude peoples or creeds from our alliances, we are too secure in our values, even though on the political surface it appeared otherwise before this ... event of the past year and some.

The Conservative-Right is not mobilized and motivated, as the radical Liberal-Left is.

As I've said to Gloominary privately, the Conservative-Right is too weighted by assets and wealth, and unwilling to do what is necessary to defend the US Constitution and American Republic.

The Liberal-Left represent more of the population with liberally nothing to lose. So they have everything to gain. Any risk is "progress" to them.

Very true that.
So.... you have to engage in a tract that allows for gain without too much risk taking. Again, this seems to come down to picking useful alliances.
But the Christians are also too proud and frankly stupid to realize this, to understand that Jesus isn't going to step in and help them and that then everyone is going to bow to Jesus. Thats just not going to happen.

These factors are more important than the Jewish Question per se.

To a warriors mind there is nothing more contemptible and hilarious than a rich and heavily armed people that sits in a corner of its palace while it is being invaded, murmuring blames and prayers for divine intervention. Such an attitude deserves to be punished. In fact it would be obscene to let it live; There is nothing more ridiculous on this planet than the fearful antisemitism of a group comprising some twenty times the amount of Jews in existence. Nature is simply not able to sustain such decadence, laziness, inactivity, ungratefulness, cowardice -- it is perhaps the deepest cowardice ever to have surfaced on the Earth.
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Re: The New Left

Postby Fixed Cross » Tue Apr 27, 2021 2:42 pm

Urwrongx1000 wrote:
Peter Kropotkin wrote:Urwrongx1000:
Anglos and Jews aligned and reformed after the 1940s and 1950s, when the Holocaust survivors emigrated West or East. Many went to the Soviet Union which immediately enacted their Communist-Marxist ideologies.

K: this is flatly wrong....by 1940, communism has been in the Soviet Union over 20 years....

I didn't say Russia wasn't Communist before. I said Jews escaping Nazi Germany brought their own Marxist and Communist ideologies there as well, and accelerated what was already in place.

Thats not actually true. The heaviest Communist ideology existed under Stalin, leading up to and during the war. After the war the USSR started drifting back to Russian Nationalism, using Communism as an ideological shield.

I advise you to stop heeding the Jews-did-it narrative, it is a one trick solves all meme planted in Christians so they don't look at their own utterly depraved leaders. This game is as old as the days of the first gospels and has served parasites ever since.

There is no "Elders of Sion". That was a Czarist ploy. And Jews didn't flee to Communist Russia, they fled from there. Even Trotsky was murdered, chased all the way into Mexico because he was Jewish and not Russian Nationalist.

Antisemitism seems to derive primarily from a basic envy of the Chosen People - the people with whom the "Christian God" made his covenant.
Look at the Epstein case for another angle. About a hundred people you can list who aren't Jews who profited from that guy's setup, and only he, the Jew, was accused of it. Christians always seek to make Jews their patsies, and the weakest Jews happily comply.

Can you not see how perfectly Israel was always positioned to take the heat for actions taken by larger empires?
Be sharp. Perceive the enemy within. Recognize the ally desperate to help you.
The strong act as they may, the weak accept what they must.
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Re: The New Left

Postby Sculptor » Tue Apr 27, 2021 3:00 pm

Does anyone need some matches for this thread of strawmen?
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Re: The New Left

Postby Urwrongx1000 » Tue Apr 27, 2021 4:25 pm

Fixed Cross wrote:Thats not actually true. The heaviest Communist ideology existed under Stalin, leading up to and during the war. After the war the USSR started drifting back to Russian Nationalism, using Communism as an ideological shield.

I advise you to stop heeding the Jews-did-it narrative, it is a one trick solves all meme planted in Christians so they don't look at their own utterly depraved leaders. This game is as old as the days of the first gospels and has served parasites ever since.

There is no "Elders of Sion". That was a Czarist ploy. And Jews didn't flee to Communist Russia, they fled from there. Even Trotsky was murdered, chased all the way into Mexico because he was Jewish and not Russian Nationalist.

Antisemitism seems to derive primarily from a basic envy of the Chosen People - the people with whom the "Christian God" made his covenant.
Look at the Epstein case for another angle. About a hundred people you can list who aren't Jews who profited from that guy's setup, and only he, the Jew, was accused of it. Christians always seek to make Jews their patsies, and the weakest Jews happily comply.

Can you not see how perfectly Israel was always positioned to take the heat for actions taken by larger empires?
Be sharp. Perceive the enemy within. Recognize the ally desperate to help you.

Concerning the defense of the United States, and the defense of the Patriotic Americans who won the world wars and won our freedom to this point, I simply want to include all the factors. I don't believe all Jews are bad, but those that imbed themselves into the US institutions, especially the Neo-Cons and Neo-Libs who are responsible for many of the calamities of US politics from 1990s to now, cannot be ignored. As I mentioned, they are but one factor of many. The severity of each factor, is up to everybody to decide, although I understand your concern for Anti-Semitism. At this point, with the amount of division, distrust, and hatred growing in America (even obvious on this forum, for the last several years), I don't believe everybody will go through the upcoming turmoil unscathed. I propose it as a warning for all Americans.
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Re: The New Left

Postby Gloominary » Tue Apr 27, 2021 4:52 pm

promethean75 wrote:Political activity 'in the name of' Marx, by self proclaimed Marxist, or by politicians who are perceived to be Marxist (even though they are not self proclaimed), and the kinds of states, temporary or not, that have been achieved by such people and which have certain elements within and about them perceived to be Marxist, are not complete (if accurate at all) in their representation of what is made explicit by Marx and Engels in the theoretical premises of at least the first stage of the revolution; what is laid out as the planks of the manifesto.

Unless a state, temporary or not, has not realized at least these standards, it cannot be essentially marxist... only a semblance, or a circumstance of what I mention above.

Instead it is in the congruence of the rhetoric with the actual, economic practices that resemble or appear to be what is imagined as purely Marxist, that leads one into equivocation, e.g., universal health care with something Marxist because it's leftist.

But this example is not explicitly Marxist; it may be that as a result of a Marxist state, universal health care would come into existence - worker run medical and health care industries would necessarily end up creating universal health care - but this can also happen in a welfare state capitalist economy (like the U.S.) or even a fascist state or sorts... so that is not a necessary feature of a Marxist state unless it is the result of very certain conditions; democratically controlled medical and healthcare industries.

The problem is, neither Marx nor (or do I say 'or') anyone after him could possibly know what would happen directly after the implication of all the essential planks during the revolutionary state and/or its transitionary period.

Each time the criteria I mention at the beginning of this post is met, we have a case of false equivocation by default (out da gate).

Low key though the fear of Marxism has reached mythotheological levels on the right. This is either tragic or comical or just absurdly neither... in which case it is a vestigial error that doesn't help or hinder anything and just expends useless energy in an imaginary, conspiratorial world collectively invented by curved and copious creatures.

Marxist apologetics simplified:

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Re: The New Left

Postby promethean75 » Tue Apr 27, 2021 5:02 pm

Lol and the 'no true Scotsman' fallacy doesn't apply here either because Marxism has never existed.

This is complicated man. You have to almost perform a complete overhaul of everything you thought you knew about it.
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Re: The New Left

Postby Urwrongx1000 » Tue Apr 27, 2021 5:07 pm

Kind of a low blow to throw Prom's cousins under the bus with that video Gloom......

lul
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Re: The New Left

Postby promethean75 » Tue Apr 27, 2021 5:22 pm

I hopped around that video a bit thinking glooms was making some kind of point with it... and all I find is the trash created by capitalism/consumerism.
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Re: The New Left

Postby Fixed Cross » Tue Apr 27, 2021 6:27 pm

Feelsweirdman
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Re: The New Left

Postby Fixed Cross » Tue Apr 27, 2021 7:20 pm

Feelsweirdman's cousin
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Re: The New Left

Postby Fixed Cross » Tue Apr 27, 2021 8:38 pm

Their child


Jesus with horns though.
I give you your savior.
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Re: The New Left

Postby Gloominary » Tue Apr 27, 2021 10:13 pm

Urwrongx1000 wrote:Kind of a low blow to throw Prom's cousins under the bus with that video Gloom......

lul

Lol, 'you don't know me, you don't know me, whateva, haters gone hate'.
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