The New Left

Half-formed posts, inchoate philosophies, and the germs of deep thought.

Re: The New Left

Postby Urwrongx1000 » Sun Apr 25, 2021 6:22 pm

Fixed Cross wrote:Yeah it would help to stop blaming Jews for all the weaknesses of Christian society. Christianity is just a perversion of a small aspect of Judaism and Christians ought to honor the Jews as their superiors, at least their spiritual fathers. When they decide to do that, things will probably begin to work out. There is no Christ without Moses. Christianity without the Old Testament is merely an obscene form of Caesarian rule.

The problem with Christianity is that it expects God to step in wherever man doesn't dare to tred. That is why things with the 'uhlection' went the way they went. Villains knew no one was going to stop them because they were all relying on God to step in.

Do you know that tale of the guy who was lost at sea, and boats kept coming by, and he said 'no Im just gonna wait until god saves me'?

Thats the Christian Right.

I do agree that another huge factor in all of this is the impotence and indolence of the Conservative-Right, especially the Republican political party, who have no fangs in their bite. They are weak and lazy. The Liberal-Left, and their Marxist buddies, are highly motivated and fanatical.

Only fanaticism can match them and defend the American spirit. This seems rare nowadays. I simply don't see the Zeal of American nationalism required to defend these oncoming onslaughts.
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Re: The New Left

Postby Urwrongx1000 » Sun Apr 25, 2021 6:26 pm

Fixed Cross wrote:Furthermore, they produced Jesus.
I believe Herod was a Roman proxy (by basic political logic he has to have been) and that it was the Romans and their proxy Jews who killed Jesus.
The part of Christianity that says "Jews killed Jesus" - disregarding even that Jesus was a Jew - is the bane of Christianity, its worst disgrace, its fatal flaw.
If, or where Christianity seeks out the Jews and exalts them, which it does in quite a number of sects, Christianity is rugged and solid, as it respects its own foundation.
Where Christians are fuming at the Jews and scapegoating them, theyre sawing their own legs from underneath them.

I believe the trope comes from Judas' betrayal, and not from Herod or the Romans though.

That is the source of Anti-jewish sentiment among Christians, that, Jews were willing to sell out Jesus for a gold coin.
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Re: The New Left

Postby Gloominary » Sun Apr 25, 2021 10:41 pm

I'm most definitely not blaming anyone for anything.
The Jews have their strengths, and weaknesses, just as whites, Asians, Hispanics and so on do.
The three things I admire most about them are their ability to tell a story, to stick together/up for themselves, and their wariness.

Everyone knows Ashkenazis have a high iQ, but what they may not know is it's their verbal iQ in particular that's very high, their visual spatial iQ by comparison is only moderately high.
They're wordsmiths and master storytellers, from the bible to Hollywood and the MSM.

Even Marx was as much a storyteller as he was a philosopher and social theorist, same with Ayn Rand.
Historical materialism had heroes (the proletariat), villains (the bourgeois) and a supporting cast of clergy, nobility, royalty, the lumpenproletariat and the petty bourgeoisie.
It had a thesis, antithesis and synthesis, a beginning, middle and end.
Jared Diamond in his seminal, Pulitzer Prize winning and aptly titled 'Guns, Germs and Steel', tells a fascinating tale about how superior firepower, diseases and geography, alone lead to European political and socioeconomic hegemony, it had nothing to do with our culture or values.

To be sure, Europeans aren't bad storytellers themselves, everything from Shakespeare and Goethe to Weber's equally aptly titled 'The Protestant Ethic and the Spirit of Capitalism', where he attributes western dominance to its work ethic and capitalism, which for him went hand in hand.

Yea I admire their wariness, their caution.
Their people have been around for a long time, what 3 or 4000 years?
About as long as the Greeks, if we count Minoans and Mycenaeans as Greeks.
They've seen mighty kingdoms and nations come and go, rise and rust, tables turn and circumstances change on a dime.

By contrast Europeans, particularly northerners, are a bit...deer in the headlights?
They see the best in people, and they hope for the best, in fact they've come to expect, and demand it.
I suppose this can be good thing...I guess, but it can also be our undoing.
I think we can learn a lot from Jews, and other Mediterranean peoples, just as we taught them a thing or two.
Perhaps not being as anchored in the past allowed us to dream big, and that came in handy with the discovery of the Americas.
It was a chance for a new beginning, a blank slate.

In our desire to help others, we must not forget to put ourselves first.
We wouldn't want to let anyone drag us into the depths with them.

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Re: The New Left

Postby Gloominary » Sun Apr 25, 2021 10:58 pm

The Chinese have been around for a long time too, a 5000 year old civilization, but they were isolated, and complaisant.
There's a lot of wisdom in the Mediterranean.
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Re: The New Left

Postby Ecmandu » Sun Apr 25, 2021 10:59 pm

I never sent my DNA to be examined.

My uncle was 40% Askenazi.

I have a superhuman ability to endure cold, so I consider my blood to be mostly nordic.

What’s interesting as people have studied blood lines is that it’s not what Mendel taught... pure, 1/2, 1/4, 1/8...

It’s now understood that it’s like taking a ladle to chicken noodle soup... sometimes you only get broth.

Other times celery, chicken and carrots. You get the picture. What’s most important in any person is how little you project, how little hypocrisy you have and how little cognitive dissonance you have. Anyone can achieve this.
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Re: The New Left

Postby Gloominary » Sun Apr 25, 2021 11:13 pm

All things in moderation tho.
Even too much wariness can be a bad thing.
You wouldn't want to accuse your friends of things they haven't done, see evil where there is none (some people probably think I need to take my own advice on that).
Sometimes we can manifest our worst nightmares into reality by mistaking benevolence for malignance.
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Re: The New Left

Postby Ecmandu » Mon Apr 26, 2021 12:46 am

Gloominary wrote:All things in moderation tho.
Even too much wariness can be a bad thing.
You wouldn't want to accuse your friends of things they haven't done, see evil where there is none (some people probably think I need to take my own advice on that).
Sometimes we can manifest our worst nightmares into reality by mistaking benevolence for malignance.


Mark Twain said, “everything in moderation, including moderation”
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Re: The New Left

Postby Gloominary » Mon Apr 26, 2021 12:56 am

Urwrongx1000 wrote:Freedom may find a new home in Texas, Alaska, perhaps Central or Southern America, or Eastern Europe.

Poland for example is now leading the world in terms of anti-Wokeism, and are very resistant against Marxist-Communist Totalitarianship.

I've considered relocating but a country needs to have strong gun ownership and free speech in place. Eastern Europe is still regressive in these areas.

No one knows for sure how this is all going to play out.
The only thing I feel sure about is this conflict between those who want to restore, and tear down America and the west, will escalate within the coming years and decades.
The former could decisively win, the latter could.
On the other hand, we could end up with an agreement to disagree, where states like Alaska, Texas and coalitions of midwestern and southern states go one way and the West and East Coast states go the other.
On the other hand, we could see endless fighting, leaving both sides vulnerable to outsiders like Russia and China.
I think we'll see an acceleration of this conflict in Western Europe as well as in North America.
Eastern Europe is in better shape because they've been through totalitarianism already, they don't want to go through it again.

Wokism is a dangerous cult.
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Re: The New Left

Postby Ecmandu » Mon Apr 26, 2021 1:24 am

Being an awakened being is knowing that when in order to experience something, if someone loses - existence is broken.

It’s stunning that the propaganda ministers are trying to demonize and misrepresent awakening. Don’t believe them.
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Re: The New Left

Postby Gloominary » Mon Apr 26, 2021 1:37 am

And we could see the rise of the far right too, but for real this time, and not just in the left's paranoid imaginings.
Nothing far right about the likes of Trump, Bolsonaro or Salvini.
Trump was just part paleocon, part Reaganite, nothing far right about that, just smears from the woke corporate fascist chickenhawk media.
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Re: The New Left

Postby Urwrongx1000 » Mon Apr 26, 2021 4:02 pm

I want to return to Fixed's recent point.

Apathy is probably the #1 factor for the recent decades and up to now. The Conservative-Right is apathetic, and sitting idly by, bitching as America crumbles out underneath.

The Conservative-Right is not mobilized and motivated, as the radical Liberal-Left is.



As I've said to Gloominary privately, the Conservative-Right is too weighted by assets and wealth, and unwilling to do what is necessary to defend the US Constitution and American Republic.

The Liberal-Left represent more of the population with liberally nothing to lose. So they have everything to gain. Any risk is "progress" to them.



These factors are more important than the Jewish Question per se.
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Re: The New Left

Postby Peter Kropotkin » Mon Apr 26, 2021 4:29 pm

Urwrongx1000 wrote:I want to return to Fixed's recent point.

Apathy is probably the #1 factor for the recent decades and up to now. The Conservative-Right is apathetic, and sitting idly by, bitching as America crumbles out underneath.

The Conservative-Right is not mobilized and motivated, as the radical Liberal-Left is.



As I've said to Gloominary privately, the Conservative-Right is too weighted by assets and wealth, and unwilling to do what is necessary to defend the US Constitution and American Republic.

The Liberal-Left represent more of the population with liberally nothing to lose. So they have everything to gain. Any risk is "progress" to them.



These factors are more important than the Jewish Question per se.


K: I hold the difference is the fact that the liberals still have hope and the conservatives
no longer have or perhaps never had, hope....

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Re: The New Left

Postby Urwrongx1000 » Mon Apr 26, 2021 4:39 pm

Peter Kropotkin wrote:K: I hold the difference is the fact that the liberals still have hope and the conservatives
no longer have or perhaps never had, hope....

Kropotkin

I applaud you for demonstrating to the whole forum the extent of your intellect and philosophical prowess.
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Re: The New Left

Postby Gloominary » Mon Apr 26, 2021 5:13 pm

In previous centuries, the left (or is it the right now? :-k) was more straightforward.
They were left across the board, usually about as left on politics, economics and the military as they were on epistemology, identity and the border, but there's been a shift in the left, will we see a corresponding shift in the right?
Up until now, I've been referring to them as the left, but I think I've made a mistake, they're actually the right, but they're not the old, White Anglo Saxon Protestant right of yesteryear, no the White Anglo-Saxon elite have ditched Protestantism for scientism, technocracy, transhumanism and globalism.
Many of them have married elite Jews who've also exchanged their Judaism for scientism, technocracy, transhumanism, globalism and/or Zionism.
This new Anglo-Jewish elite are quite a bit less religious than the masses they rule over.
Usually the elite at least feign to be religious, to relate to the masses and justify their rule as divinely ordained, but they're done with that.

I say they're the right because the ones pushing wokeness on the masses are the elite establishment, and what is the right if it isn't the wealthy and powerful, whether they're religious or secular, nationalists or globalists, whether they're pushing gays off mountaintops or performing sex reassignment surgery on children, the wealthy and powerful must be the rightwing, and like any rightwing, you can bet your bottom dollar whatever they do, they do it for power.
It's the upper middle and upperclass who in poll after poll affirm wokeness over traditional values.
Wokeness is peddled by academia, all the big banks, megacorps and MSM outlets, by Disney and Hollywood, even tho the masses are much more ambivalent about and hostile to it.

But when it comes to politics, economics and the military, the elite establishment are as traditionally rightwing as always, suspicious of democracy and free, independent thought, there can be no diversity there, only cosmetic diversity is permitted.
Megabanks and corporations pay almost zero tax and the vast majority of welfare is corporate as opposed to social, no desire to change anything there, or bring our troops home, but 'white supremacy'?
We have plenty of time, energy and resources to dedicate to fighting that, as amorphous as it is.

Whatever the rich and powerful are promoting, that must be rightwing, and so scientific authoritarianism, from fighting 'climate change' to 'covid', identity politics, open borders, that's all rightwing now, the democratic party is relatively rightwing now, the vast majority of big money has moved from the republicans to dems, and so whatever opposes the rightwing, the powerful, that would have to be left.
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Re: The New Left

Postby Gloominary » Mon Apr 26, 2021 5:37 pm

Just as the Roman Empire ditched Paganism for Christianity and opened the borders midway through its reign, so too has the Anglo-American empire ditched Christianity for scientism, wokeness and open borders.
The former had no intention of relinquishing its reign, and neither does the latter, they only intended to change how they reigned.
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Re: The New Left

Postby Peter Kropotkin » Mon Apr 26, 2021 5:38 pm

Urwrongx1000 wrote:
Peter Kropotkin wrote:K: I hold the difference is the fact that the liberals still have hope and the conservatives
no longer have or perhaps never had, hope....

Kropotkin

I applaud you for demonstrating to the whole forum the extent of your intellect and philosophical prowess.


K: thank you...Don't worry someday, you can aspire to be as wise as I am....

Kropotkin
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Re: The New Left

Postby Urwrongx1000 » Mon Apr 26, 2021 10:40 pm

Peter Kropotkin wrote:K: thank you...Don't worry someday, you can aspire to be as wise as I am....

Kropotkin

This thread proves why you liberal-lefties on this forum cannot discuss any serious topic at length. Because you quickly show how foolish, inept, and disconnected from reality your brains really are.
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Re: The New Left

Postby Urwrongx1000 » Mon Apr 26, 2021 10:45 pm

Gloominary wrote:In previous centuries, the left (or is it the right now? :-k) was more straightforward.
They were left across the board, usually about as left on politics, economics and the military as they were on epistemology, identity and the border, but there's been a shift in the left, will we see a corresponding shift in the right?
Up until now, I've been referring to them as the left, but I think I've made a mistake, they're actually the right, but they're not the old, White Anglo Saxon Protestant right of yesteryear, no the White Anglo-Saxon elite have ditched Protestantism for scientism, technocracy, transhumanism and globalism.
Many of them have married elite Jews who've also exchanged their Judaism for scientism, technocracy, transhumanism, globalism and/or Zionism.
This new Anglo-Jewish elite are quite a bit less religious than the masses they rule over.
Usually the elite at least feign to be religious, to relate to the masses and justify their rule as divinely ordained, but they're done with that.

Here I believe you are referring to both the "Neo-Liberals" and "Neo-Conservatives".



Gloominary wrote:I say they're the right because the ones pushing wokeness on the masses are the elite establishment, and what is the right if it isn't the wealthy and powerful, whether they're religious or secular, nationalists or globalists, whether they're pushing gays off mountaintops or performing sex reassignment surgery on children, the wealthy and powerful must be the rightwing, and like any rightwing, you can bet your bottom dollar whatever they do, they do it for power.
It's the upper middle and upperclass who in poll after poll affirm wokeness over traditional values.
Wokeness is peddled by academia, all the big banks, megacorps and MSM outlets, by Disney and Hollywood, even tho the masses are much more ambivalent about and hostile to it.

But when it comes to politics, economics and the military, the elite establishment are as traditionally rightwing as always, suspicious of democracy and free, independent thought, there can be no diversity there, only cosmetic diversity is permitted.

Yes, like Israel in the Middle East, they push 'wokeness', castration, faggotry, "equality", race-mixing for the lower and lower-middle class, but not among themselves, and not at the top levels.

They do not force integration or wokeness into the CEO board of directors of mega-corporations, for example. They do not force it into private schools, where the elite protect their own children.



Gloominary wrote:Megabanks and corporations pay almost zero tax and the vast majority of welfare is corporate as opposed to social, no desire to change anything there, or bring our troops home, but 'white supremacy'?
We have plenty of time, energy and resources to dedicate to fighting that, as amorphous as it is.

Whatever the rich and powerful are promoting, that must be rightwing, and so scientific authoritarianism, from fighting 'climate change' to 'covid', identity politics, open borders, that's all rightwing now, the democratic party is relatively rightwing now, the vast majority of big money has moved from the republicans to dems, and so whatever opposes the rightwing, the powerful, that would have to be left.

Concerning Liberty and Freedom, I don't see them as Rightwing. They are solidly rejecting The Right, as they did against Trump and Trump-supporters. The Left is trying a full takeover of "The Establishment" in order to force all of The Right out of it.

They want to impose a new Class-Caste society onto America in which they are the Overclass. The problem is, they have no moral authority to do so, which is why civil war has become inevitable.
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Re: The New Left

Postby Peter Kropotkin » Mon Apr 26, 2021 11:16 pm

Urwrongx1000 wrote:
Peter Kropotkin wrote:K: thank you...Don't worry someday, you can aspire to be as wise as I am....

Kropotkin

This thread proves why you liberal-lefties on this forum cannot discuss any serious topic at length. Because you quickly show how foolish, inept, and disconnected from reality your brains really are.


K: and showing us once again, your desire to lower people and promote hate and division....
yours is just another attempt to remove hope from the universe.....I wonder, and I actually do
wonder if you will ever write anything positive or hopeful to people... instead you just bring
up insults and statements without context... show us how the left is foolish, or inept or
disconnected from reality...bring some context to your statements.....

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Re: The New Left

Postby Peter Kropotkin » Mon Apr 26, 2021 11:20 pm

Urwrongx1000":
Concerning Liberty and Freedom, I don't see them as Rightwing. They are solidly rejecting The Right, as they did against Trump and Trump-supporters. The Left is trying a full takeover of "The Establishment" in order to force all of The Right out of it.
They want to impose a new Class-Caste society onto America in which they are the Overclass. The problem is, they have no moral authority to do so, which is why civil war has become inevitable.

K: and once again, show us the context of these statements... otherwise they are just random
statements that mean nothing... you need to prove that the left is in fact trying to
"to impose a new class-caste system onto America in which they are they overlords"
bring us some context to that statement... what does it mean?

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Re: The New Left

Postby Urwrongx1000 » Mon Apr 26, 2021 11:28 pm

If you can't keep up with the vocabulary of our discussion, then best sit silent.

You're interrupting a conversation that you are too low to understand.
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Re: The New Left

Postby Peter Kropotkin » Mon Apr 26, 2021 11:37 pm

Urwrongx1000 wrote:If you can't keep up with the vocabulary of our discussion, then best sit silent.

You're interrupting a conversation that you are too low to understand.


K: as you are the one who is unable to define (give context)to your statements, I would suggest that
it is you that cannot understand the discussion at hand...you make random statements
without any context.... the entire point of philosophy is to give context to statements....

the world is about language... ok, that statement while very pretty, demands some
sort of context... the world? which world? and what language? math? english?
polish? sign language? you have to clarify what you are talking about... which is
the entire point of philosophy....making sense of the world by context...

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Re: The New Left

Postby Gloominary » Mon Apr 26, 2021 11:49 pm

The left is whatever belief (system) threatens the powers that be.
For Pagan Rome, Christianity, along with some other religions like Manichaeism, was a threat, because many Christians wouldn't kneel before Caesar, and because while many Christians were docile, some were militant communists, and because all of them were just too bizarre for Rome, so they persecuted them.
But the more they martyred, the more converted.
After a couple centuries the empire was teeming with them.
Even some of the elite were converting.

If you can't beat it, join it, or rather, co-opt it.
The more Rome's upperclass converted, the more Christianity's radicalness diluted.
Could a Roman emperor really be Christian?
Weren't Christians to relinquish their power and give their wares to the poor?
Rome's ruling class became theologians and began debating these things.
'Why yes, yes of course, a Christian could be a rich, powerful patrician, in charge of sentencing poor farmers to death for not paying their taxes'.
And the pope could wear a big hat and waddle around the palace worth a fortune, enough to feed a poor country in Africa for generations.
And so the bible was forbidden from being read by Christian plebs who came to accept the emperor and pope's reign because, 'they were one of us now, 1st among equals'.
Finally they would kneel before the emperor.
And so the left, the antiestablishment, was co-opted, made toothless.
The bits that were compatible, were preserved, the bits that weren't, discarded, or watered down.

Several centuries ago, classical liberalism, Protestantism and science were subversive, leftwing.
In many countries the clergy, nobility and royalty were overthrown and replaced with republics, in others they were restrained.
Gradually this lead to a period where there was no clear ruling class, but after awhile a group of banksters, bureaucrats and corporations began practicing monopoly capitalism.
The liberal democracy was largely corrupted.
Socialists, some wanting to merely reform liberal democracy, others wanting to topple and replace it with a 'proletariat dictatorship', and anarchists, the new left, emerged to challenge liberal democracy, the new right.
Most of these socialists were atheists, a challenge to the Protestant establishment.

Science, classical liberalism and Protestantism, Socialism and atheism, arguably had successes and failures.
Now wouldn't the new ruling class, these bureaucrats and businessmen, these monopoly men, try to co-opt these movements, rather than overtly oppose them?
Well that's exactly what they did, but I think increasingly the former, classical liberalism and Protestantism, is outliving its usefulness for them.
Classical liberalism and Protestantism is sort of like Paganism in the late Roman empire, the old dog, scientism, socialism and atheism, the new dog, is sort of like Christianity, its teeth are being filed down, so it has no bite.
They know revolution is coming, that the masses don't have much of a future, so they're leading the opposition.
The changes they're making, are mostly cosmetic, like dolling and jazzing up a corpse.
The issues once paramount to socialism, are pushed to the side, while the molehills are made into mountains.
The movement lead by the rich and powerful.

I try to see the good and bad in everything, in science, classical liberalism, Protestantism, socialism and atheism.
I think all these movements had their pluses and minuses.
The elite tries to see opportunity, even in their opposition, especially in it.
I see science and socialism changing from things that could be used to challenge the status quo and free people in all sorts of ways, into a kind of religion, with a hierarchy of popes, bishops, cardinals, priests and laymen.
Into something that legitimizes a rigid hierarchy, a faith in woke politicians and technocrats, in woke industries, medicine and media, instead of the people having more faith in themselves, organizing things grassroots.
I think scientism and wokism could have great staying power, they could become the dominant religion of our times, for decades or even centuries to come.
Woke is the new clothes the old establishment wears, woke is in fact, rightwing.
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Re: The New Left

Postby Urwrongx1000 » Tue Apr 27, 2021 12:44 am

Peace breeds fanaticism and zealotry, as the complacent middle-class become more and more willing to sell-out their beliefs and values, to appease the radical under-class who, by definition, have nothing to lose.

As the overall society falters, over time, the more those revolutions lose steam or break society down so far that they cannot return.

Rome went through a very, very long decline as Christianity grew in power.



Rome was eventually forced to co-opt the fanatics, which they turned against them, with the advent and rise of Catholicism.
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Re: The New Left

Postby Urwrongx1000 » Tue Apr 27, 2021 12:45 am

Peter Kropotkin wrote:K: as you are the one who is unable to define (give context)to your statements, I would suggest that
it is you that cannot understand the discussion at hand...you make random statements
without any context.... the entire point of philosophy is to give context to statements....

the world is about language... ok, that statement while very pretty, demands some
sort of context... the world? which world? and what language? math? english?
polish? sign language? you have to clarify what you are talking about... which is
the entire point of philosophy....making sense of the world by context...

Kropotkin

Shutup, child.

You need to respect the adults on this forum. If you have nothing to add, which you don't, then remain silent.



You are interrupting a philosophical conversation. You are one of the main detriments to this forum.

Now either ADD SOMETHING TO THE CONVERSATION, or keep your stupidity to yourself.
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