The New Left

Half-formed posts, inchoate philosophies, and the germs of deep thought.

The New Left

Postby Gloominary » Thu Apr 22, 2021 9:42 pm

How has the left evolved over the centuries?
What was it like before, what is it like now, and where is it headed?
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Re: The New Left

Postby Gloominary » Thu Apr 22, 2021 9:57 pm

For reasons I can't be bothered to explain, I don't have a keyboard at the moment.
I'm using an onscreen keyboard so I'll have to try to be concise, which I don't mind being, I like concision anyway.
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Re: The New Left

Postby Gloominary » Thu Apr 22, 2021 11:06 pm

I believe the left has come in 4 stages or waves.
The first wave began in the enlightenment with John Locke (politics) and Adam Smith (economics).
Other thinkers made important contributions such as Voltaire, Montesquieu and Kant, Mandeville, Quesnay and Turgot, but Locke and Smith were paramount.
The first wave was classical liberalism and capitalism, free speech, the right to bear arms, due process, separation of powers, individual liberty, private property and so on.
It lead to the glorious revolution of 1688; a timocratic, then democratic constitutional monarchy in the UK and the American revolution; a timocratic, then democratic republic in the US, which all subsequent successful constitutional monarchies and republics are in large part modeled after.

The second wave began towards the end of the enlightenment with Jean Jacques Rousseau.
Unlike many subsequent leftists Rousseau was primarily interested in politics instead of economics, or identity.
Rousseau was a proponent of absolute democracy rather than constitutional monarchy or republicanism.
Rousseau's ideas culminated in the French revolution, the reign of terror and the dictatorship of Napoleon Bonaparte.
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Re: The New Left

Postby Gloominary » Fri Apr 23, 2021 4:01 am

Before I move onto 3rd wave liberalism, I'd like to touch on conservatism 1st.
The founder of modern conservatism is Edmund Burke.
He was a moderate in that while he thought the French revolution was abhorrent, he though the British and American revolutions were commendable.
Fiscally he was a capitalist but socially he was moderately conservative.
Conservatives can be divided into two broad camps, moderates like Burke and extremists who believe all three revolutions, French, American and even the glorious revolution were abhorrent.

This brings me to the 3rd wave of liberalism which began towards the end of the enlightenment with Thomas Paine.
You could say Thomas Paine was the 1st modern socialist.
Like Burke, his contemporary, he was a moderate, but unlike Burke, he leaned left rather than right, and thought both the American and French revolutions were laudable.
Fiscally he was what we'd call today a social democrat and socially a classical liberal or libertarian.
He was one of, if not the 1st modern proponents of a 5 day work week, child labor laws, minimum wage, things of that nature.

The 3rd wave of liberalism is socialism.
Like conservatives, socialists come in two broad camps, moderates like Paine, Jeremy Bentham, John Stuart Mill and so on, and extremists like the utopian socialists, anarchists (while some anarchists are individualists most are social) and Marxists who called for Ergatocracy or 'the dictatorship of the proletariat'.
The Marxists successfully overtook Russia in 1917 and the anarchists nearly overthrew the Spanish government in 1936.
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Re: The New Left

Postby Gloominary » Fri Apr 23, 2021 4:18 am

3rd wave liberalism was primarily economic, rather than political, or Identitarian.
Of course politics, and identity were important, but the emphasis was on economics.
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Re: The New Left

Postby obsrvr524 » Fri Apr 23, 2021 5:29 am

I'm not up on ancient religious issues but it seems to me that Leftism and Satanism are fundamentally the same thing - absolute power through stoked division. And if that is the case Leftism is certainly much older than the Enlightenment era.

So what is the actual difference (besides the name - if any)?
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    • the left from the right,
    • the light from the dark, and
    • blame each for the sins of the other
    • - until they beg you to take charge.
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Re: The New Left

Postby Urwrongx1000 » Fri Apr 23, 2021 5:43 am

The biggest shift, the Paradigm Shift of Modern-Postmodern politics of today, of Western Civilization and America, revolve around the shift away from the Individual and into Society.

The Liberal-Left used to be concerned primarily with the individual, Individual Rights, private property, and free speech. These would now be considered 'Libertarians' who are now on the Right. While the Left is fully "Postmodernist", Socialist, Communist, Marxist, and "Anti-Racist" (meaning New Racists). The Liberal-Left has now reversed on most or all of its old values. It is no longer about individual rights, Human Rights, rather it is about group-identity, based on Race.

The main reason for this is because the Democrats in USA are close to gaining full power and control of everything. Race-baiting works. So they are rapidly selling-out all their "values", which they claimed to defend before, in order to accelerate their gains to political power. Race-baiting and Neo-Racism, claiming to be "Anti-Racist" while being secretly Racist, is the new fad and gaining lots of political ground.



The "Liberal-Left" no longer cares for the individual, Individual Rights, private property, or free speech. These are all sacrificed.

All that is important (to them) is Race, Class, and Group-identity.

They are essentially Regressing back to Classical European Era where you are born into a stagnant class (based on race) and you cannot, and will not move away from this class.
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Re: The New Left

Postby Gloominary » Fri Apr 23, 2021 5:54 pm

obsrvr524 wrote:I'm not up on ancient religious issues but it seems to me that Leftism and Satanism are fundamentally the same thing - absolute power through stoked division. And if that is the case Leftism is certainly much older than the Enlightenment era.

So what is the actual difference (besides the name - if any)?

The right does that too, if by right we mean fascism, Nazism, Islamism, Zionism and so on.
However if by right we mean classical liberalism, then no they don't do that.
Classical liberals tend to lump the authoritarian left and authoritarian right together.
For classical liberals they're two sides of the same coin, and indeed they do share a lot in common.
However, I think classical and postclassical liberals share a lot in common too.

While some classical liberals are plutocrats or timocrats; they think only the wealthy or propertied should have liberty, most today believe in equality of liberty, maximizing liberty for everyone, whereas for 2nd wave liberals like Rousseau, they believe in equality of authority, all of us getting an equal say, one vote in determining what sort of direct or representative democratic tyranny we get to live under.
For moderate 3rd wave liberals like Paine, they only want to eliminate poverty on the one hand and affluenza on the other, whereas for extremists like Marx, they want absolute economic equality.
As for 4th wave liberals like the critical theorists, they believe many forms of inequality, negative (freedom from), positive (freedom to), political, economic and so on are based on identity, on race, sex, gender and so forth.
Above all, they seek social equality.

The environmental and covid movements are part of the 4th wave of liberalism as well.
Just as they claim they want absolute equality between the races, sexes and genders, they claim they want more species equality and the young and healthy to look after the old and sickly, and that's where the covid movement comes in.
Of course the key word here is claim.
Like you I believe the political, economic and social elite are using these causes for power.

In any case, at least on the surface, what these 4 waves of liberalism have in common is the equality bit.
They emphasize different forms of equality.
They define equality differently, but equality is their stated aim.
Conservatives on the other hand, especially the more extreme among them, don't want equality, they want to maintain, and expand inequality.
'To the victor belong the spoils'.
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Re: The New Left

Postby obsrvr524 » Fri Apr 23, 2021 9:24 pm

I think too many people are getting confused by the name games. Anyone should be able to see that creating confusion is intentional. That means blaming the other party for the wrong things but also naming both parties for the wrong things - keep everything disguised as something other than what it is. That strategy allows for much greater manipulation.

I was taught that the two hands of the manipulator ("Man") are the right and the left -
  • Right - upright, constructive, lawful, honest, dutybound - "conservers".
  • Left - lowly, conniving, destructive, lawless, lying, betraying - "liberators".
But it remains important to keep the narrative confused as to who is on which side and what is actually being manipulated into what intended future.

In the US it is not any accident that the so called "Democrat" party represents the opposite of democracy. And it is no accident that the "Republican" party represents - doing nothing. The right hand is letting the left hand push the world toward - what? First into nihilistic chaos to justify absolute authoritarianism - Unified Man.

It is the job of the Left to divide and the job of the Right to conquer.

But notice that the actual fascists in the world (extortionists/terrorists - "be afraid to defy us") are the "leftists" burning, looting, and dismantling law. Fascism or extortion is used by both sides when in need. The Left uses it to destroy and the Right uses it to maintain or construct. Fear must be maintained for sake of both sides - else people are too hard to move.

People who used to be called "democrat" are not democratic but anti-democrat socialists - elitist authoritarians. People who used to be called "republicans" are not standing for republicanism but merely sitting and watching the world go by.

That is what got Mr Trump elected and so popular - and absolutely hated by the manipulators - a stone they couldn't move out of the way.

So in all of that, although names get tossed about and intentionally conflated, what is actually new about the Left (hand of Man)?

Although there is something new about the Right -

For a brief, perhaps not totally bygone moment - the Right stood up.

I am seeing the possibility for a "new Right" (much earlier than intended) but the Left seems the same as always - perhaps a little more obvious now that Mr Trump tore the curtain.

I think it is all the same Satanism as always - separate the bottom from the top, the left from the right, and blame each for the sins of the other.
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              You have been observed.
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    It's just same Satanism as always -
    • separate the bottom from the top,
    • the left from the right,
    • the light from the dark, and
    • blame each for the sins of the other
    • - until they beg you to take charge.
    • -- but "you" have been observed --
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Re: The New Left

Postby Ecmandu » Fri Apr 23, 2021 10:39 pm

Dude,

Not only do you not know what liberalism is, or conservationism for that matter, and not only are you still using an antiquated bi-camiral mind, you bring some weird bible shit with it.

What the fuck dude? The left and right hand of god? Satan? What the fuck are you talking about dude?

It’s fucking retarded.

At least you got one thing right! The manipulators only want two parties and they want both of them to mean nothing. And, sorry, Trump was part of it.
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Re: The New Left

Postby Gloominary » Fri Apr 23, 2021 11:35 pm

Ecmandu wrote:Dude,

Not only do you not know what liberalism is, or conservationism for that matter, and not only are you still using an antiquated bi-camiral mind, you bring some weird bible shit with it.

What the fuck dude? The left and right hand of god? Satan? What the fuck are you talking about dude?

It’s fucking retarded.

At least you got one thing right! The manipulators only want two parties and they want both of them to mean nothing. And, sorry, Trump was part of it.

I suppose it would be too much to ask for you to exercise a modicum of decorum.
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Re: The New Left

Postby Ecmandu » Sat Apr 24, 2021 1:48 am

Gloominary wrote:
Ecmandu wrote:Dude,

Not only do you not know what liberalism is, or conservationism for that matter, and not only are you still using an antiquated bi-camiral mind, you bring some weird bible shit with it.

What the fuck dude? The left and right hand of god? Satan? What the fuck are you talking about dude?

It’s fucking retarded.

At least you got one thing right! The manipulators only want two parties and they want both of them to mean nothing. And, sorry, Trump was part of it.

I suppose it would be too much to ask for you to exercise a modicum of decorum.


Gloominary, I’ll stay out of this if you want me to...

He said some super-offensive shit surreptitiously and is smug about it.
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Re: The New Left

Postby Gloominary » Sat Apr 24, 2021 3:04 am

Urwrongx1000 wrote:The biggest shift, the Paradigm Shift of Modern-Postmodern politics of today, of Western Civilization and America, revolve around the shift away from the Individual and into Society.

The Liberal-Left used to be concerned primarily with the individual, Individual Rights, private property, and free speech. These would now be considered 'Libertarians' who are now on the Right. While the Left is fully "Postmodernist", Socialist, Communist, Marxist, and "Anti-Racist" (meaning New Racists). The Liberal-Left has now reversed on most or all of its old values. It is no longer about individual rights, Human Rights, rather it is about group-identity, based on Race.

The main reason for this is because the Democrats in USA are close to gaining full power and control of everything. Race-baiting works. So they are rapidly selling-out all their "values", which they claimed to defend before, in order to accelerate their gains to political power. Race-baiting and Neo-Racism, claiming to be "Anti-Racist" while being secretly Racist, is the new fad and gaining lots of political ground.



The "Liberal-Left" no longer cares for the individual, Individual Rights, private property, or free speech. These are all sacrificed.

All that is important (to them) is Race, Class, and Group-identity.

They are essentially Regressing back to Classical European Era where you are born into a stagnant class (based on race) and you cannot, and will not move away from this class.

I basically agree with all that.

Classical liberalism has arguably been the most successful ideology since the glorious revolution of 1688 and the American revolution.
It's lead to relative peace and prosperity in the western world.
At various times its supremacy has been challenged by the authoritarian left and the authoritarian right.
There is also a libertarian left known as distributism that's never really caught on in our modern era I'll just mention in passing.
And classical liberalism has absorbed some more moderate aspects of the authoritarian left and right while retaining many of its core values enshrined in our constitutions...well, at least until recently.

The left is changing, it's becoming much more authoritarian.
It's also less class oriented and more identity oriented.
The left does this, it oscillates between periods of moderation and periods of extremism, as does the right.
Bonapartism was a period of extremism, Leninism and Stalinism another.
On class, the modern left is more moderate, but on identity, gender, sex and especially race, it's more extreme, whereas for Marx and his apostles it was the other way round.
Last edited by Gloominary on Sat Apr 24, 2021 3:36 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: The New Left

Postby Gloominary » Sat Apr 24, 2021 3:33 am

I don't think we've seen the worst of this new authoritarian left, not even close.
If left largely unchecked, I believe it will lead to bloody revolution like we saw during the reign of terror and the great purge.
Since identity, particularly race rather than class or the environment appears to be their number one concern, we could see a violent genocide of whites who won't bend the knee.
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Re: The New Left

Postby Urwrongx1000 » Sat Apr 24, 2021 4:29 am

I'll go a few steps further and simply claim it, because the Overton Window has shifted so far to the Left, that 'Classical Liberalism' is now a right-wing ideology or "center-right".

Liberal-Leftism is no longer concerned with or value Classical Liberalism? Why? Because it has outlived its potential. Economics in Western Civilization is solidifying and stagnating. Upward movement is declining and will regress. "Progressivism" also includes Economics. If the middle and lower class cannot gain wealth, then they will automatically move into Authoritarian--Elitist ideologies, which is what this "New Left" is about. They are ahead of the curve.

Which is why they manipulate Marxist and New Racialism ideologies to their own benefit. They want to be the 'Controllers' of Class, but in the end, this will fail and backfire (because they have deeply flawed premises on Race and Biology).
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Re: The New Left

Postby Ecmandu » Sat Apr 24, 2021 4:29 am

Gloominary wrote:I don't think we've seen the worst of this new authoritarian left, not even close.
If left largely unchecked, I believe it will lead to bloody revolution like we saw during the reign of terror and the great purge.
Since identity, particularly race rather than class or the environment appears to be their number one concern, we could see a violent genocide of whites who won't bend the knee.


Identity politics rose in the 60’s with the hippies.

Suddenly, it wasn’t about just how you spent the money, it was about questions like abortion and race.
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Re: The New Left

Postby promethean75 » Sat Apr 24, 2021 11:16 am

Political activity 'in the name of' Marx, by self proclaimed Marxist, or by politicians who are perceived to be Marxist (even though they are not self proclaimed), and the kinds of states, temporary or not, that have been achieved by such people and which have certain elements within and about them perceived to be Marxist, are not complete (if accurate at all) in their representation of what is made explicit by Marx and Engels in the theoretical premises of at least the first stage of the revolution; what is laid out as the planks of the manifesto.

Unless a state, temporary or not, has not realized at least these standards, it cannot be essentially marxist... only a semblance, or a circumstance of what I mention above.

Instead it is in the congruence of the rhetoric with the actual, economic practices that resemble or appear to be what is imagined as purely Marxist, that leads one into equivocation, e.g., universal health care with something Marxist because it's leftist.

But this example is not explicitly Marxist; it may be that as a result of a Marxist state, universal health care would come into existence - worker run medical and health care industries would necessarily end up creating universal health care - but this can also happen in a welfare state capitalist economy (like the U.S.) or even a fascist state or sorts... so that is not a necessary feature of a Marxist state unless it is the result of very certain conditions; democratically controlled medical and healthcare industries.

The problem is, neither Marx nor (or do I say 'or') anyone after him could possibly know what would happen directly after the implication of all the essential planks during the revolutionary state and/or its transitionary period.

Each time the criteria I mention at the beginning of this post is met, we have a case of false equivocation by default (out da gate).

Low key though the fear of Marxism has reached mythotheological levels on the right. This is either tragic or comical or just absurdly neither... in which case it is a vestigial error that doesn't help or hinder anything and just expends useless energy in an imaginary, conspiratorial world collectively invented by curved and copious creatures.
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Re: The New Left

Postby Urwrongx1000 » Sat Apr 24, 2021 11:54 am

Marxism is easily defeated on many different philosophical, political, and cultural levels however.

#1 - Other people's welfare isn't your business or anybody else's. Healthcare is a private enterprise, not a public one.

Unless #2 - We have Homogeneous societies, of likeminded people and related bloodlines, which the liberal-left denounce as "racist".

And #3 - You cannot square a "Marxist" or Socialist society with an avowed "Anti-Racist" society.


So you're simply all kinds of "fukt", as the kids say nowadays.
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Re: The New Left

Postby Urwrongx1000 » Sat Apr 24, 2021 12:10 pm

promethean75 wrote:Low key though the fear of Marxism has reached mythotheological levels on the right. This is either tragic or comical or just absurdly neither... in which case it is a vestigial error that doesn't help or hinder anything and just expends useless energy in an imaginary, conspiratorial world collectively invented by curved and copious creatures.

https://www.bitchute.com/video/yrw1BmJguYNF/
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Re: The New Left

Postby promethean75 » Sat Apr 24, 2021 12:23 pm

What we DO know is that this new Marxist state would involve so much more direct, horizontal control of decisions made and policies practiced, by the very worker citizens themselves, that it would be so radically different we'd hardly be able to recognize it... much less predict too far into the future what might become of it.

All you can do here is the very the thing you aren't supposed to do in logic; start with the premise and create a conclusion. You try to get to that state that has never existed before and on that account cannot assemble it from some kit or copy some other instance of it.

Horizontal government on such a scale would be a enormous matrix of decision making processes working at stock market speeds. Each person would be directly engaged in making decisions pertaining to nearly every aspect of the work place and it's resulting product.

This shit isn't even a question anymore and if you'd not want to achieve this ideal state, you'd have to be an idiot or an asshole or both; a capitalist.

If you want to get with the program, a worthwhile problem to address is something like; how do you create the possibility for an incentivized worker to choose to quit one job and begin working for a higher payer, when one entity owns and runs all of the market place.

Put another way, why would I, as the worker government, want to pay this worker five dollars more to do the same thing over here rather than over there. I own and operate it all, and if I am to generate profit and avoid inflation, I need to want to keep wages down, etc., etc.

But in that case, the worker might become dissatisfied with his democratically decided income level for that particular job, and his performance decreases as a result... or even a growing malaise toward labor in general overcomes him and he willingly goes to the gulag rather than keep a job.

Now THAT is a legitimate obstacle to be worked on theoretically. Immediate things to consider and in no specific order:

Obligation of all to work coupled with ever increasing mechanical technology would quickly create and sustain a similar GDP, but with and through a fraction of the labor once required to reach and sustain that same GDP.

Cheaper goods and services because there are no private parties trying to profit and build capital by unnecessarily inflating price.

Now introduce these conditions into the equation and again examine that same worker's malaise and growing lack of incentive.

Ah, the guy has no time to be depressed because he works maybe three hours a day and quite enjoys his free time to be a consumer in an incredibly affordable market economy, buying and doing stuff all over the place when he isn't working.

See how the context changes. Under different circumstances what would be a problem elsewhere is not a problem here, etc., and onward.

This is the kind of stuff you brainiacs need to be thinking about. Like I don't even know what kind of shit y'all are reading these dayz.
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Re: The New Left

Postby promethean75 » Sat Apr 24, 2021 12:45 pm

It might help to point out that a lot of marxism critics actually, inadvertently and unknowingly, adopt an implicitly hegelian view of history when they determine that it is in fact a set of nefarious ideas that have created the phenomena of the left, and not the actual material conditions of society.

Lemme explain. You suppose that without the leftist 'narratives' you'd not have the same kinds of attitudes evolve in various people throughout society, e.g., the angered worker on strike, the student in a mountain of debt, the tenent about to be evicted, and so on.

Now this is unlikely, because despite how these people are taught to think about such problems, they are still problems nonetheless, and necessary problems, i.e., necessary results of a capitalist system.

All this means that, in fact, it is not the narrative, not the ideologues, that produce the leftist attitudes among people, but the actual lived conditions in society.

The driving force that brings Marxism is the specific set of material conflicts produced by the current operating system and NOT any 'ideas'.

I do wish you had a clue about what I'm talking about here but in any case, you are part of a grand and wonderful irony that has pervaded through the senturies and you've no idea how profound your accident is. You'd get all this if you knew what it meant for Marx to flip George on his head.

Not literally. Figuratively. Nvr mind.
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Re: The New Left

Postby promethean75 » Sat Apr 24, 2021 1:05 pm

"Other people's welfare isn't your business or anybody else's."

r u saying I can't be concerned 4 other people and want to help them (as in it is logically and physically impossible in any universe), or r u saying I shouldn't be concerned 4 people and want to help them?

"Healthcare is a private enterprise, not a public one."

r u saying it can only b private, or that it could b another way but shouldn't b?

"Unless #2 - We have Homogeneous societies, of likeminded people and related bloodlines, which the liberal-left denounce as "racist"."

What if we just had similar saliva composition? Could we call the few genes that control saliva production, the important ones instead? I mean dude I've got so much in common with a Filipino that it hardly matters our height difference, face shape, skin tone, hair texture, right?

And we certainly do have homogenous societies of people with approximately the same saliva composition.... yet you refuse to consider this similarity and instead pick another arbitrary set of genes to work with. Unbelievable.
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Re: The New Left

Postby Gloominary » Sat Apr 24, 2021 3:26 pm

Ecmandu wrote:
Gloominary wrote:I don't think we've seen the worst of this new authoritarian left, not even close.
If left largely unchecked, I believe it will lead to bloody revolution like we saw during the reign of terror and the great purge.
Since identity, particularly race rather than class or the environment appears to be their number one concern, we could see a violent genocide of whites who won't bend the knee.


Identity politics rose in the 60’s with the hippies.

Suddenly, it wasn’t about just how you spent the money, it was about questions like abortion and race.

Actually anti-racism and feminism date back to the renaissance.
Both liberalism and socialism date back to antiquity, altho some say John Locke and Thomas Paine were the 1st modern liberal and socialist respectively.
Anti-racism was big in the states during the abolition and civil rights movements, feminism during the suffragette and civil rights movements.

Contemporary or 4th wave 'feminism' and 'anti-racism' have kicked it up several notches, because they don't just target sexist and racist individuals, they target all men and all whites, and they don't just target aspects of institutions where they think they're failing, they want to throw out the entire institution, hence defund and now abolish the police.
At this time, politics in of itself (like anarchists and proponents of direct democracy), class and the environment don't have this kind of revolutionary potential like the former two had during bygone eras, but identity does, specifically race.
It is the anti, or rather the reverse racists who are tearing shit up brought to you by Walmart, McDonalds and the mass media, not anarchists or socialists, and so I think we're seeing a brand new phase for the left, where race is the chief thing, not a side issue.

I used to think the elite were promoting reverse racism as part of a divide and conquer strategy but lately I'm less sure.
At least half of the elite are Jewish.
Millions of nonwhites are pouring into our countries and being indoctrinated with hate.
What we're seeing appears to be a reverse colonialism, lead by Jews and their useful white idiots.
All this could lead to a race war, the extermination or enslavement of the white race.
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Re: The New Left

Postby Gloominary » Sat Apr 24, 2021 4:33 pm

Actually anti-racism and feminism like liberalism and socialism date back to antiquity too, I mean Plato was a feminist and in the Roman Republic citizenship was eventually extended from Romans to all Italians and in the Roman Empire from Italians to everyone born in the empire.
Septimius Severus was their Barrack Obama, the 1st non-European emperor, a North African of Punic/Carthaginian and Roman extract.
But modern anti-racism and feminism like liberalism and socialism date back to the enlightenment, or renaissance.
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Re: The New Left

Postby Ecmandu » Sat Apr 24, 2021 5:11 pm

Gloominary,

I don’t disbelieve you. I’m not booksmart. What I’m amazing at is thesis, antithesis and synthesis.

If something comes across my mind, I’ll make sense out of it as an extreme example of the pattern seeking animals we are. I have no clue why I have this ability.

Without other people’s booksmarts, I wouldn’t know shit. I owe it to people like you to keep it real. You owe it to people like me to keep it real. We’re symbiotic.
Ecmandu
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Joined: Thu Dec 11, 2014 1:22 am

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