Pedro's Corner

Half-formed posts, inchoate philosophies, and the germs of deep thought.

Re: Pedro's Corner

Postby iambiguous » Tue Oct 27, 2020 6:05 pm

Pedro I Rengel wrote:Let's say I did have a condition.

Does that mean you are getting your ass handed to you by a retard?

The readers may decide or whatever.

Or Iam can maybe give the girlish resort to insults a rest, and address any one of the clearly formulated, simple questions posed to him.


Again, this is why I crave a battle of wits with someone like phoneutria. In other words, someone who, from time to time, actually could "hand my ass" to me.*

Oh well, I suppose when you're waiting for godot, you take the good with the bad. :wink:


* see if you can talk her into it
He was like a man who wanted to change all; and could not; so burned with his impotence; and had only me, an infinitely small microcosm to convert or detest. John Fowles

Start here: viewtopic.php?f=1&t=176529
Then here: viewtopic.php?f=15&t=185296
And here: viewtopic.php?f=1&t=194382

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Re: Pedro's Corner

Postby Pedro I Rengel » Tue Oct 27, 2020 6:08 pm

Ah! I thought you had gone.

Here we don't hold battles of wit. We hold serious discussions, about topics like politics and philosophy. Would you like to?
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Re: Pedro's Corner

Postby Pedro I Rengel » Tue Oct 27, 2020 6:09 pm

Maybe we can start with your ideas on communism, given that you are on record not only giving a free pass from your fragmented self conundrum to an outspoken one, but wishing him luck and accepting the moniker of "comrade."
Last edited by Pedro I Rengel on Tue Oct 27, 2020 6:10 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Pedro's Corner

Postby iambiguous » Tue Oct 27, 2020 6:10 pm

Pedro I Rengel wrote:If you ever want to earnestly discuss communism, I will be here.


If you ever want to earnestly discuss an individual's reaction to Communism as a political prejudice rooted subjectively in "I" as an existential contraption derived from dasein, I will be here.

Just say the word and I'll start a new thread.
He was like a man who wanted to change all; and could not; so burned with his impotence; and had only me, an infinitely small microcosm to convert or detest. John Fowles

Start here: viewtopic.php?f=1&t=176529
Then here: viewtopic.php?f=15&t=185296
And here: viewtopic.php?f=1&t=194382

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Re: Pedro's Corner

Postby Pedro I Rengel » Tue Oct 27, 2020 6:12 pm

I have no interest in going to any thread you create. You came here, and I am telling you the kinds of discussions we like to have here. We favour honesty and good faith.

For instance, why was your reaction to an actual, real deal, down here on "Earth" expression of communist ideas to wish the expositor good luck? This, in the context of you holding that any objectivist you encounter, you will face with your conundrum about fragmented self and conflicting goods?
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Re: Pedro's Corner

Postby iambiguous » Tue Oct 27, 2020 6:15 pm

Pedro I Rengel wrote:Ah! I thought you had gone.

Here we don't hold battles of wit. We hold serious discussions, about topics like politics and philosophy. Would you like to?


Sure. Start a new thread. Choose a topic. Ensconce it in a particular set of circumstances that involve conflicting goods. Note your own moral and political values in regard to it. I'll respond in turn.

On the philosophy board if you want it civil and respectful. In rant if you don't.
He was like a man who wanted to change all; and could not; so burned with his impotence; and had only me, an infinitely small microcosm to convert or detest. John Fowles

Start here: viewtopic.php?f=1&t=176529
Then here: viewtopic.php?f=15&t=185296
And here: viewtopic.php?f=1&t=194382

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Re: Pedro's Corner

Postby Pedro I Rengel » Tue Oct 27, 2020 6:17 pm

Why not here?
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Re: Pedro's Corner

Postby Pedro I Rengel » Tue Oct 27, 2020 6:18 pm

The sudden uptick in the markets was foreseeable. Smart people made money on that, I guess. But when you see a trend that has already developed, it is tempting to simply assume it will continue. Comfortable. Which I did. I am still green for the day, but the market is not there to make you feel comfortable.
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Re: Pedro's Corner

Postby Pedro I Rengel » Tue Oct 27, 2020 6:19 pm

Pedro I Rengel wrote:Why not here?


Pedro I Rengel wrote:For instance, why was your reaction to an actual, real deal, down here on "Earth" expression of communist ideas to wish the expositor good luck? This, in the context of you holding that any objectivist you encounter, you will face with your conundrum about fragmented self and conflicting goods?
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Re: Pedro's Corner

Postby Pedro I Rengel » Tue Oct 27, 2020 6:21 pm

Just be honest and tell us what you really think about communism. I promise to treat you with respect. As an adversary, but with respect.

If you continue to hold that "you don't see opposing sides" and "you are out to confront objectivists of any sort," it will be difficult to take you seriously.
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Re: Pedro's Corner

Postby Pedro I Rengel » Tue Oct 27, 2020 6:24 pm

Would you agree, for example, that conflicting "goods" (ideas of what constitutes "good,") are only a problem for you when one of those "goods" isn't Marxism?
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Re: Pedro's Corner

Postby iambiguous » Tue Oct 27, 2020 6:56 pm

Pedro I Rengel wrote: Just be honest and tell us what you really think about communism. I promise to treat you with respect. As an adversary, but with respect.


But my own understanding of honesty here is that any particular individual's thoughts about Communism are rooted existentially in his or her particular life -- the experiences they have had in regard to it, the relationships they have had which impacted their views on it, the particular information, knowledge and ideas they came across that shaped and molded their opinions in the direction of one rather than another political prejudice.

Also, the fact that, in my view, different sides are able to concoct different arguments predicated on different assumptions about the human condition: https://www.thebalance.com/communism-ch ... es-3305589

No one side can make all the arguments of the other side go away.

In fact, you can start with a basic question: do human interactions revolve more around the individual or the community? And down through the ages there has been considerable evidence for both. But the objectivists at both political extremes refuse to acknowledge that. Me, I do. Which is why my own existential leap is in the general vicinity or "moderation, negotiation and compromise". Legislation that revolves around elements of both capitalism and socialism.

But that's the last thing objectivists of your ilk want to hear. You can promise to treat others with respect but the underlying assumption is that you are right about it. And the respect often collapses when others aren't finally willing to see things your way. Almost all of the particularly arrogant objectivists here reach that point where they get flustered when others don't "see the light". Then they commence with the huffing and the puffing.

Pedro I Rengel wrote: If you continue to hold that "you don't see opposing sides" and "you are out to confront objectivists of any sort," it will be difficult to take you seriously.


Of course I see opposing sides. But what many objectivists on either side don't or won't see are the points that I raise. They have so much invested mentally, emotionally and psychologically in being "one of us" [the good guys], that feeling anything analogous to a fractured and fragmented "I" is what actually perturbs them most.
He was like a man who wanted to change all; and could not; so burned with his impotence; and had only me, an infinitely small microcosm to convert or detest. John Fowles

Start here: viewtopic.php?f=1&t=176529
Then here: viewtopic.php?f=15&t=185296
And here: viewtopic.php?f=1&t=194382

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iambiguous: a post from Pedro?
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Re: Pedro's Corner

Postby Pedro I Rengel » Tue Oct 27, 2020 7:27 pm

I got ya iam. You know it, I know it, everybody sawr it knows it. You are just a dishonest commie peddling your propaganda.

Anyway, my cockyness here is hurting me in my trading, in which cockyness does not help. We will have to hope that what concern over my dignity and self-respect vis a vis the female creature didn't accomplish, concern over my finances will.

See you all later. Much later, I hope.
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Re: Pedro's Corner

Postby iambiguous » Tue Oct 27, 2020 10:24 pm

My own rather substantive post:

iambiguous wrote:
Pedro I Rengel wrote: Just be honest and tell us what you really think about communism. I promise to treat you with respect. As an adversary, but with respect.


But my own understanding of honesty here is that any particular individual's thoughts about Communism are rooted existentially in his or her particular life -- the experiences they have had in regard to it, the relationships they have had which impacted their views on it, the particular information, knowledge and ideas they came across that shaped and molded their opinions in the direction of one rather than another political prejudice.

Also, the fact that, in my view, different sides are able to concoct different arguments predicated on different assumptions about the human condition: https://www.thebalance.com/communism-ch ... es-3305589

No one side can make all the arguments of the other side go away.

In fact, you can start with a basic question: do human interactions revolve more around the individual or the community? And down through the ages there has been considerable evidence for both. But the objectivists at both political extremes refuse to acknowledge that. Me, I do. Which is why my own existential leap is in the general vicinity or "moderation, negotiation and compromise". Legislation that revolves around elements of both capitalism and socialism.

But that's the last thing objectivists of your ilk want to hear. You can promise to treat others with respect but the underlying assumption is that you are right about it. And the respect often collapses when others aren't finally willing to see things your way. Almost all of the particularly arrogant objectivists here reach that point where they get flustered when others don't "see the light". Then they commence with the huffing and the puffing.

Pedro I Rengel wrote: If you continue to hold that "you don't see opposing sides" and "you are out to confront objectivists of any sort," it will be difficult to take you seriously.


Of course I see opposing sides. But what many objectivists on either side don't or won't see are the points that I raise. They have so much invested mentally, emotionally and psychologically in being "one of us" [the good guys], that feeling anything analogous to a fractured and fragmented "I" is what actually perturbs them most.


And his rather poor rebuttal:

Pedro I Rengel wrote:I got ya iam. You know it, I know it, everybody sawr it knows it. You are just a dishonest commie peddling your propaganda.

Anyway, my cockyness here is hurting me in my trading, in which cockyness does not help. We will have to hope that what concern over my dignity and self-respect vis a vis the female creature didn't accomplish, concern over my finances will.

See you all later. Much later, I hope.


And now [I guess} he bids us adieu.

Objectivists!!! 8)
He was like a man who wanted to change all; and could not; so burned with his impotence; and had only me, an infinitely small microcosm to convert or detest. John Fowles

Start here: viewtopic.php?f=1&t=176529
Then here: viewtopic.php?f=15&t=185296
And here: viewtopic.php?f=1&t=194382

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iambiguous: a post from Pedro?
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Re: Pedro's Corner

Postby phoneutria » Thu Oct 29, 2020 8:30 pm

Pedro I Rengel wrote:Here we don't hold battles of wit.


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Re: Pedro's Corner

Postby phoneutria » Thu Oct 29, 2020 8:30 pm

well to be fair
it's not like it's an abundant resource
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Re: Pedro's Corner

Postby Pedro I Rengel » Thu Oct 29, 2020 9:22 pm

Am I made of stone? I am not made of stone.

phoneutria.

Listen, #1, will you marry me.

Secondly, I mean you're right. I am a big fan of wit, I just don't have it much. I'm good at the other thing. But I love you for it, and like promethean too for it. Just because you are not good at a thing doesn't mean you have, like, hate for it. I offer what I know. Also, I mean, from the standpoint of a fan, watching anybody "battle wits" with iamchinacom is like watching Kasparov play chess with an actual bull. Did you have anything in mind, anyway? Happy to oblige.
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Re: Pedro's Corner

Postby Pedro I Rengel » Thu Oct 29, 2020 9:34 pm

Politics, and also arguably philosophy, is what men do instead of kill each other. So to me it ought to have the seriousness and finality of consequence of war. We are debating things that we might otherwise be killing each other for, over.

I think I might find wit a little disrespectful when facing an actual opponent from the actual other side of the battlefield. i see it has its place for other situations, but myself i love me some war, and have conceded along with the rest of the world that maybe straight shooting each other in the face should be a second, ideally third or even fifth option.
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Re: Pedro's Corner

Postby Pedro I Rengel » Thu Oct 29, 2020 9:36 pm

In any case, intelligence is required for wit, but wit cannot accomplish what intelligence can.

Namely, to ascertain the truth of a thing.
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Re: Pedro's Corner

Postby Pedro I Rengel » Thu Oct 29, 2020 9:37 pm

When you were reading Shakespeare or Marx or Nietzsche, you weren't throwing jokes at them. You were listening and, perhaps in your hearth of yourself, having some serious words with them.
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Re: Pedro's Corner

Postby Pedro I Rengel » Thu Oct 29, 2020 9:39 pm

Jung, Freud, whoever.
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Re: Pedro's Corner

Postby iambiguous » Thu Oct 29, 2020 9:40 pm

phoneutria wrote:
Pedro I Rengel wrote:Here we don't hold battles of wit.


shame


Do tell.
He was like a man who wanted to change all; and could not; so burned with his impotence; and had only me, an infinitely small microcosm to convert or detest. John Fowles

Start here: viewtopic.php?f=1&t=176529
Then here: viewtopic.php?f=15&t=185296
And here: viewtopic.php?f=1&t=194382

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iambiguous: a post from Pedro?
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Re: Pedro's Corner

Postby Pedro I Rengel » Thu Oct 29, 2020 9:41 pm

blegh
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Re: Pedro's Corner

Postby Pedro I Rengel » Thu Oct 29, 2020 9:44 pm

iambiguous wrote:My own rather substantive post:

iambiguous wrote:
Pedro I Rengel wrote: Just be honest and tell us what you really think about communism. I promise to treat you with respect. As an adversary, but with respect.


But my own understanding of honesty here is that any particular individual's thoughts about Communism are rooted existentially in his or her particular life -- the experiences they have had in regard to it, the relationships they have had which impacted their views on it, the particular information, knowledge and ideas they came across that shaped and molded their opinions in the direction of one rather than another political prejudice.

Also, the fact that, in my view, different sides are able to concoct different arguments predicated on different assumptions about the human condition: https://www.thebalance.com/communism-ch ... es-3305589

No one side can make all the arguments of the other side go away.

In fact, you can start with a basic question: do human interactions revolve more around the individual or the community? And down through the ages there has been considerable evidence for both. But the objectivists at both political extremes refuse to acknowledge that. Me, I do. Which is why my own existential leap is in the general vicinity or "moderation, negotiation and compromise". Legislation that revolves around elements of both capitalism and socialism.

But that's the last thing objectivists of your ilk want to hear. You can promise to treat others with respect but the underlying assumption is that you are right about it. And the respect often collapses when others aren't finally willing to see things your way. Almost all of the particularly arrogant objectivists here reach that point where they get flustered when others don't "see the light". Then they commence with the huffing and the puffing.

Pedro I Rengel wrote: If you continue to hold that "you don't see opposing sides" and "you are out to confront objectivists of any sort," it will be difficult to take you seriously.


Of course I see opposing sides. But what many objectivists on either side don't or won't see are the points that I raise. They have so much invested mentally, emotionally and psychologically in being "one of us" [the good guys], that feeling anything analogous to a fractured and fragmented "I" is what actually perturbs them most.


And his rather poor rebuttal:

Pedro I Rengel wrote:I got ya iam. You know it, I know it, everybody sawr it knows it. You are just a dishonest commie peddling your propaganda.

Anyway, my cockyness here is hurting me in my trading, in which cockyness does not help. We will have to hope that what concern over my dignity and self-respect vis a vis the female creature didn't accomplish, concern over my finances will.

See you all later. Much later, I hope.


And now [I guess} he bids us adieu.

Objectivists!!! 8)



Iam. If you have your own prejudices, which you have outright claimed you have, and prejudices are ideas about what is true or not, and you have also said that what one person considers true must, if true, be true objectively for everybody...


Then you are an objectivst.
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Re: Pedro's Corner

Postby Pedro I Rengel » Thu Oct 29, 2020 9:50 pm

Actually, you don't even need to have opinions about what is true or not. Just believing that if anything a person knows is true is true then it is true objectively (your words) for everybody, makes you an objectivist.

I guess what I meant was that if those things, you are a participating objectivist, with ideas not only about the objective or subjective nature of reality, but about what specifically is objectively true. In other words, an ideologue, with an agenda.

In your case, as demonstrated by the episode with robolutionary, a communist objectivist ideology and agenda.
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