Pedro's Corner

Half-formed posts, inchoate philosophies, and the germs of deep thought.

Re: Pedro's Corner

Postby Pedro I Rengel » Wed Nov 17, 2021 5:35 am

Here is a puzzle from lichess. It's ranked 2020 and been played by over 1000 players, meaning that only people that can beat most serious hobby players 10 times out of 10 are able to win rather than draw or even lose this game.

It is basically the same position that you said made my win a foregone conclusion, that he knew I knew bla bla bla.


Screenshot_20211116-134606_lichess.jpg
Screenshot_20211116-134606_lichess.jpg (47.74 KiB) Viewed 145 times
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Re: Pedro's Corner

Postby promethean75 » Wed Nov 17, 2021 7:52 am

U know it has just occured to me that you've got me doing the very thing I swore I'd never do; chess theory.

I cannot say with any degree of certainty what the guy was thinking or what he'd do on that board. All I can do is imagine what might be moved, and where, and my picturing of the future states of the board would allow me only about four moves before I lose it and it becomes a blur.

Unfortunately this is true for anyone who's ever played the game... including the andreyev sokpapvoviches of the world who write books and do videos.

I feel like if I am going to speculate about something, I can find ten things to speculate about that are far more important than chess. Thank you and good day.
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Re: Pedro's Corner

Postby Pedro I Rengel » Wed Nov 17, 2021 7:57 am

promethean75 wrote:U know it has just occured to me that you've got me doing the very thing I swore I'd never do; chess theory.


Trust me kid, none of this is remotely chess theory.
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Re: Pedro's Corner

Postby promethean75 » Wed Nov 17, 2021 8:20 am

No siriusly, I'd have never thought it were possible to write and talk so extensively about an abstract strategy game. I almost feel like the bourgeois are to blame for this. It's charlatanism taken to a whole nuther level.
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Re: Pedro's Corner

Postby promethean75 » Wed Nov 17, 2021 8:26 am

No but yeah we'll play sometime. And imma tell you this. U better fucking beat me pal the way you talk about this game.
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Re: Pedro's Corner

Postby Pedro I Rengel » Wed Nov 17, 2021 8:47 am

I'll give you good enough piece odds that it won't look bad if I don't.

Would be obscene if I didn't.
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Re: Pedro's Corner

Postby promethean75 » Wed Nov 17, 2021 8:58 am

https://youtu.be/ObmFR5Dz7Ac

Go to 6:29. He says 'wants to break up this strong connection'. But he has no idea why he did that. For all he knows, the purpose may have been to get that bishop developed and open the file for his rook as well as connect his rooks.

Oh wait he did suggest that that might be the reason. But now he's just explaining what can transpire after sacrificing that pawn to break that strong connection. He's telling us what we already know, but in an indicative mood.

Somebody should do a parody of these kinds of guys. That'd be hilarious.

Pawn takes rook and opens diagonal for bishop.
Black responds with castle on queens side.
White moves knight into a pawn-bishop fork.

Meanwhile... If you can't tell us why the player did what he did, you're merely describing what's happening. In that case, I don't need you, because I can see what's happening. I'm sorry, what was your name again?

Look at that bizarre king maneuver Bobbers did. Wtf.
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Re: Pedro's Corner

Postby Pedro I Rengel » Wed Nov 17, 2021 9:04 am

Pedro I Rengel wrote:Here is a puzzle from lichess. It's ranked 2020 and been played by over 1000 players, meaning that only people that can beat most serious hobby players 10 times out of 10 are able to win rather than draw or even lose this game.

It is basically the same position that you said made my win a foregone conclusion, that he knew I knew bla bla bla.


Screenshot_20211116-134606_lichess.jpg



Just in case, I'm sure prom saw this, the correct move is king to g7.

If you play the first move that comes to mind, pawn to h7, because the knight is so far away and you only need 2 moves to promote, he will play knight to f8, fork your king and pawn, sacrifice for the pawn, and then his king is perfectly placed to calmly escort his own pawn to queendom. Even if he didn't have that pawn, that fork would be enough to force a draw.

You can play king to f7, but then he will play knight to e5 and put you in check. You still win by then going king to g7, but you just gave yourself one extra move to possibly fuck up. Maybe your instinct would be to attack the knight, and then he could take you on a walk which might or might not go your way.

The reason g7 works is that, even though your king is now on a dark square, and his knight will attack dark squares on the next move, your king will be diagonal to it with a square in between, meaning that he won't be able to check you. You are also guarding the last two squares needed to promote, while blocking the only two squares (f6 and e7) that he can use to attack the promotion square (h8).
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Re: Pedro's Corner

Postby promethean75 » Wed Nov 17, 2021 9:04 am

Warning. Great wall of text incoming by one pedrovovinski rengelovisk.
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Re: Pedro's Corner

Postby Mr Reasonable » Wed Nov 17, 2021 9:05 am

some dunes today

You see...a pimp's love is very different from that of a square.


Dating a stripper is like eating a noisy bag of chips in church. Everyone looks at you in disgust, but deep down they want some too.
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Re: Pedro's Corner

Postby Pedro I Rengel » Wed Nov 17, 2021 9:09 am

promethean75 wrote:https://youtu.be/ObmFR5Dz7Ac

Go to 6:29. He says 'wants to break up this strong connection'. But he has no idea why he did that. For all he knows, the purpose may have been to get that bishop developed and open the file for his rook as well as connect his rooks.

Oh wait he did suggest that that might be the reason. But now he's just explaining what can transpire after sacrificing that pawn to break that strong connection. He's telling us what we already know, but in an indicative mood.

Somebody should do a parody of these kinds of guys. That'd be hilarious.

Pawn takes rook and opens diagonal for bishop.
Black responds with castle on queens side.
White moves knight into a pawn-bishop fork.

Meanwhile... If you can't tell us why the player did what he did, you're merely describing what's happening. In that case, I don't need you, because I can see what's happening. I'm sorry, what was your name again?

Look at that bizarre king maneuver Bobbers did. Wtf.


I don't really watch these videos for some guy to explain to me what is happening. I watch them to watch the game with some commentary by a guy who knows, like watching a sports game.

The truth is that Bobby probably made that move thinking of both those things, and many others. That's why chess is such a complicated game. If your move isn't doing at least 10 things on 5 different scales of time and strategy, it's a stupid move.

All these commentators are doing is pointing out some things to you. Often, you will be able to appreciate those things, because a move that seemed random to you will suddenly make more sense. A guy like Bobby Fischer most absolutely does not make random moves.
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Re: Pedro's Corner

Postby Pedro I Rengel » Wed Nov 17, 2021 9:30 am

I don't mean to make you angry, prom, but sometimes, while I play chess, I will listen to Vivaldi or Paganini.
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Re: Pedro's Corner

Postby Mr Reasonable » Wed Nov 17, 2021 9:44 am

i feel like chess is a game for homeless people in new orleans, and autistic types
You see...a pimp's love is very different from that of a square.


Dating a stripper is like eating a noisy bag of chips in church. Everyone looks at you in disgust, but deep down they want some too.
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Re: Pedro's Corner

Postby MagsJ » Wed Nov 17, 2021 10:58 am

Pedro I Rengel wrote:I don't mean to make you angry, prom, but sometimes, while I play chess, I will listen to Vivaldi or Paganini.

Yous’ all making me want to take-up chess.. does that site you use allow for tutorials Pedro?

I know the piece moves and have played a little, in the very-distant past. When the time arrives, that I need to enter 2 player mode, yous will warn me about the chess sharks, won’t ya?

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The possibility of anything we can imagine existing is endless and infinite.. - MagsJ
I haven't got the time to spend the time reading something that is telling me nothing, as I will never be able to get back that time, and I may need it for something at some point in time.. Huh! - MagsJ
You’re suggestions and I, just simply don’t mix.. like oil on water, or a really bad DJ - MagsJ
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Re: Pedro's Corner

Postby Pedro I Rengel » Wed Nov 17, 2021 11:36 am

MagsJ wrote:Yous’ all making me want to take-up chess.. does that site you use allow for tutorials Pedro?


Yes, ma'am: https://lichess.org/learn#/

MagsJ wrote:When the time arrives, that I need to enter 2 player mode, yous will warn me about the chess sharks, won’t ya?


Yes I will.

Nothing will teach you chess, like playing it, though.
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Re: Pedro's Corner

Postby Urwrongx1000 » Wed Nov 17, 2021 12:14 pm

Weird, I just caught this video a bit ago, and Fischer discusses everything we just talked about the past few pages...

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Re: Pedro's Corner

Postby Pedro I Rengel » Wed Nov 17, 2021 1:07 pm

It's not new. Capablanca also invented a chess variant after he had been world champion stating the same reasons. Mind you, this was 70 years before that video.

I think they both were simply annoyed at the inevitability of new generations finding ways to beat them and producing better players than them.

They put so much work into becoming better than anyone else, it annoyed the shit out of them that someone would do the same to them.
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Re: Pedro's Corner

Postby Pedro I Rengel » Wed Nov 17, 2021 1:15 pm

For example, people complain about computers, that pro chess has become simply about memorizing computer lines. But computers have torn down all chess theory of the last 100 years and forced everybody to start playing different ways. They did the opposite of what Fischer complains about, they found new creative ways to approach the game, showed a thousand rules that were not actually accurate.

The other day Caruana, the world #2 chess player on the planet, played an opening with a fianchetto in front of the king where the other guy opposed that bishop with his own from the queen's side. Caruana, the world #2 chess player on the planet, then proceeded to exchange those bishops, something the whole theory behind that opening held was the exact opposite of what you want, that you should keep that bishop at all costs, and proceeded to demolish the superGM in front of him.

Look at a Firoujza game. Even people 5 years ago would not have understood what the fuck he is doing. He was bred on online bullet binges and easy availability of supercomputer analysis. Now he is about to overtake Caruana in the rankings.

Chess will never die.
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Re: Pedro's Corner

Postby Pedro I Rengel » Wed Nov 17, 2021 1:22 pm

Then you have a guy like Carlsen, reigning supreme like Sauron (his nickname), sticking to a very classical, elegant, historical form of chess, even as supercomputers change everything every 6 months. He understands that new analysis and new theory doesn't change the fundamental nature of the game, it only offers glimpses and insights, improves your perspective. Shows you new things the pieces can do.

One day Carlsen will play Firouzja in a championship match, and I will enjoy watching Carlsen destroy him.
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Re: Pedro's Corner

Postby promethean75 » Wed Nov 17, 2021 1:46 pm

"I don't mean to make you angry, prom, but sometimes, while I play chess, I will listen to Vivaldi or Paganini."

No I totally understand. When one can't do philosophy or politics right, there's always chess to fall back on and talk intelligently about.
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Re: Pedro's Corner

Postby promethean75 » Wed Nov 17, 2021 1:53 pm

Shit like this:

"Even people 5 years ago would not have understood what the fuck he is doing."

The fucking game was no different seven hundred years ago, dude. Anything about the game that is understood today, could have been understood then.

And it isn't just you. I read meaningless talk about chess like this everywhere. Sure it's a hobby and it's fun to talk to other chess enthusiasts about the game. But c'mon guys. It's getting ridiculous.
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Re: Pedro's Corner

Postby Urwrongx1000 » Wed Nov 17, 2021 1:59 pm

It depends how much time you want to put in it.

When it becomes a job, instead of fun, then that's it.

But a lot of the chess masters and commentators do make money and careers off it, which is why they do it.


And with regard to Fischer vs. the Soviet Union, that had severe political impacts. It might not seem like these things matter, but they do on the global level. Like how the medal count goes with the Olympics, it proves to the world which country has the 'best' competitors. Or with chess, it's about proving intellect.
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Re: Pedro's Corner

Postby Pedro I Rengel » Wed Nov 17, 2021 1:59 pm

Look, I do feel you on one thing. This latest "chess for the people" boom is kinda sickening.

Chess is supposed to be for people that listen to Vivaldi.

But fuck it, the more the merrier.
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Re: Pedro's Corner

Postby Pedro I Rengel » Wed Nov 17, 2021 2:19 pm

In your specific case, though, it's more a case of like a baby spitting out the food it is being fed. You obviously love the game. And you would profit greatly from learning chess. That applies to philosophy and politics too, and history, and generally things of a studious person.
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Re: Pedro's Corner

Postby promethean75 » Wed Nov 17, 2021 3:31 pm

Dude. I spent 365+ days straight studying that book by chernov or whatever his name was and spending all day playing chess in a 15' by 10' dorm. And I played all levels. Newbs and masters. This one old black dude had been locked up for like twenty years and he was at the jail facing new charges or something, can't remember. But this guy wouldn't even play anybody. It would be like expecting Einstein to talk physics with a highschooler. So all he'd do was silently watch... and then at the end, the whole dorm would gather around as he reproduced moments of the game on the board and explain what was done well, and what was done badly. He was always in a bad mood because nobody sent him money and he depended on hustling to make his canteen money. But nobody would play him. He'd even offer to play without his queen and niggas still wouldn't do it.

And I also got a little experience as a teacher while playing with newbs.

'profit greatly from learning chess' he says to me. *rolls eyes*
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