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I offer this bet....

PostPosted: Sat Aug 29, 2020 4:39 pm
by Peter Kropotkin
I will bet any any and all who think that IQ45 will win the
popular vote this election.... the last election, Clinton won
the popular vote by almost 3 million votes.. and the Electoral Collage
was how IQ45 won the election, not the popular vote....

so, I shall wager that Biden will win the popular vote by over
3 million votes and IQ45 will try to overturn the will of the people....

in a fair and square election, without GOP voter suppression, the Dem's
would destroy the GOP in an election.. the fact is, the GOP can't win
an election without cheating.....so, what does that say about a political
party that can't win without cheating?

so, any takers?

care to place a bet?

I say Biden will win by over 3 million votes.. not EC, but by
sheer voting numbers...

care to bet?

Kropotkin

Re: I offer this bet....

PostPosted: Sat Aug 29, 2020 4:41 pm
by Karpel Tunnel
If only the Electoral College was cheating.

Re: I offer this bet....

PostPosted: Sat Aug 29, 2020 4:46 pm
by Peter Kropotkin
Karpel Tunnel wrote:If only the Electoral College was cheating.



K: the presidental election is the only voting done in America that doesn't
give the prize to the one who wins the majority of voting... what is wrong with
this picture?

Kropotkin

Re: I offer this bet....

PostPosted: Sun Aug 30, 2020 4:50 am
by Karpel Tunnel
Peter Kropotkin wrote:
Karpel Tunnel wrote:If only the Electoral College was cheating.



K: the presidental election is the only voting done in America that doesn't
give the prize to the one who wins the majority of voting... what is wrong with
this picture?

Kropotkin
Yes, it's wrong. In the OP it is unclear if you consider it cheating. It's not cheating if those are the rules. I heartily agree that the Electoral College is wrongheaded and absurd. But it is the system. If Trump did cheat and plans to cheat will be via something other than the Electoral College problems. It has happened five times that the winner lost the popular vote. Absurd. But then, every single candidate, at least from the Rs and Ds ALWAYS tries to game the electoral college. Not blaming them, that's how to try to win. You have to aim your campaigns at Swing States and states with more EC votes and so on, rather than campaign generally. But everyone knows that the game going in.

Who has tried to change this in the past. Well, back when Nixon did win both the popular and EC votes, he won the EC by a landslide but the former by not so much. So a Democrat proposed that they eliminate the EC. Nixon supported the proposal. In committee it was blocked more by Democrates, though some Republicans also blocked it.

Now Democrats, more generally, are complaining about it, but honestly that seems like correct-on-the-issue-suddenly sour grapes. Certainly Clinton could have fought against the EC a long, long time ago, as an experienced in these things person she is. I mean, I knew this was silly back when I was in grade school. Perhaps she did, but I can't find it - it's a bit tough to Google given where the terms coalesce things.

My point was not a defense of the EC which I think is wrong. My point was it is not cheating to win by it.

A tennis player can't say at the end of a lost match, but I won more points, he cheated. I just lost because I lost the games I lost by low margins but won games by high margins. Well, too bad, those are the rules. And you have no problem with the rules before.

So, by all means call Trump out on other shit he pulls, but he didn't cheat because the EC weighted things in his favor.

And by all means, advoate the removal of the EC. I am with you on that one. That's what I meant by, 'if only.....'

Amazingly one of the reasons they put the damn thing in place was to lessen the chances of a populist president swaying not well enough informed voters. Let's all chew on that for a while.

Re: I offer this bet....

PostPosted: Sun Aug 30, 2020 7:50 am
by Chakra Superstar
Peter Kropotkin wrote:the presidental election is the only voting done in America that doesn't
give the prize to the one who wins the majority of voting... what is wrong with
this picture?

Kropotkin


The Electoral College is about 'inclusion'. I thought the left loved inclusion? I thought they loved giving the little people a voice?

If there was no Electoral College then the presidential nominees would only need travel to two or three of the most populous states and offer them all the goodies while ignoring the rest of the nation.

It wouldn't take long before the two or three super states had all the government jobs, all the government industry, all the government infrastructure and all the government subsidies and handouts given them to win over voters while the other 46 plus states would just decay.
.

Re: I offer this bet....

PostPosted: Sun Aug 30, 2020 2:29 pm
by Meno_
There are and always were 'insiders' who thought of a rational choice that balance any elective conflict between those who would vote for the wrong man for the times, by a haphazard futile stroke of misplaced judgement, WITH those whose political choice can not fit with tje necessary but unseen imperial design.

The fact is, the US of A iS a Democratic Imperial. entity, AMD as such, this motive subsume Amy and all other political aspirations.

This Simone of those moments in US and World history.

It is pivotal moment.

Re: I offer this bet....

PostPosted: Sun Aug 30, 2020 4:20 pm
by Karpel Tunnel
Chakra Superstar wrote:
Peter Kropotkin wrote:the presidental election is the only voting done in America that doesn't
give the prize to the one who wins the majority of voting... what is wrong with
this picture?

Kropotkin


The Electoral College is about 'inclusion'. I thought the left loved inclusion? I thought they loved giving the little people a voice?

If there was no Electoral College then the presidential nominees would only need travel to two or three of the most populous states and offer them all the goodies while ignoring the rest of the nation.

It wouldn't take long before the two or three super states had all the government jobs, all the government industry, all the government infrastructure and all the government subsidies and handouts given them to win over voters while the other 46 plus states would just decay.
.
This is a fair point and supporters also argue that it supports the two party system. Of course the latter is a negative quality, as far as I am concerned. But the former, that it give rural areas more of a chance to get their different needs met, does have some merit. And while the only candidate that gets elected by something like the electoral college is the President, there are also very few things passed via referendum. Referendums are also one person one vote and thus more democratic, but they are also have problems. The US system has a lot of built in stuff to counterbalance majorities: iow it is not intended to be a pure democracy - and, of course, fails even as a representive republic, for a wide variety of reasons.