What are you doing?

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Re: What are you doing?

Postby MagsJ » Wed Aug 03, 2022 5:37 am

origami wrote:When historians say the Arab empire, they mean the Muslim empire before the Mongol invasion. After the Mongol invasion, they call it the Ottoman empire.

Yes.. I am much more familiar with those terminologies.. because I am not fully aware of a sole Arab invasion, but of differing invasions from differing Nations, over many centuries.
The possibility of anything we can imagine existing is endless and infinite.. ~MagsJ

I haven't got the time to spend the time reading something that is telling me nothing, as I will never be able to get back that time, and I may need it for something important at some point in time.. Huh!? ~MagsJ

You’re suggestions and I just simply don’t mix.. like oil on water, or a very bad DJ ~MagsJ

Examine what is said, not him who speaks ~Arab proverb

aes Sanātana Dharma Pali: the eternal way ~it should not be rigid, but inclusive of the best of all knowledge for the sake of Ṛta.. which is endless.
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Re: What are you doing?

Postby origami » Wed Aug 03, 2022 5:41 am

I guess the fact that even today a British person makes a distinction between Arab and Muslim is a testament to the success of the Arabs. Their whole justification for their empire was that God had sent the Arabs to spread Islam throughout the world.
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Re: What are you doing?

Postby origami » Wed Aug 03, 2022 5:42 am

MagsJ wrote:
origami wrote:When historians say the Arab empire, they mean the Muslim empire before the Mongol invasion. After the Mongol invasion, they call it the Ottoman empire.

Yes.. I am much more familiar with those terminologies.. because I am not fully aware of a sole Arab invasion, but of differing invasions from differing Nations, over many centuries.



Only two peoples: the Arabs and the Mongolians. About two thirds of a millenium the Arabs, about another two thirds the Mongols.
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Re: What are you doing?

Postby origami » Wed Aug 03, 2022 5:47 am

I cannot stress this enough, the Persians never invaded anybody. Not since the Sassanid empire a thousand years before, anyway. They were vassals, first of the Arabs, then of the Mongols.
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Re: What are you doing?

Postby origami » Wed Aug 03, 2022 5:48 am

And even the Sassanids were ruled by a Macedonian dynasty.
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Re: What are you doing?

Postby MagsJ » Wed Aug 03, 2022 5:51 am

_
The Turkics, prior to them all? ..and others, prior to all of them.. there were waves of migration/conquer, hence the diverse landscape of the planet. Admixture maketh the people, not people the admixture.
The possibility of anything we can imagine existing is endless and infinite.. ~MagsJ

I haven't got the time to spend the time reading something that is telling me nothing, as I will never be able to get back that time, and I may need it for something important at some point in time.. Huh!? ~MagsJ

You’re suggestions and I just simply don’t mix.. like oil on water, or a very bad DJ ~MagsJ

Examine what is said, not him who speaks ~Arab proverb

aes Sanātana Dharma Pali: the eternal way ~it should not be rigid, but inclusive of the best of all knowledge for the sake of Ṛta.. which is endless.
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Re: What are you doing?

Postby origami » Wed Aug 03, 2022 5:52 am

MagsJ wrote:_
The Turkics, prior to them? ..and others, prior to all of them.. there were waves of migration/conquer, hence the diverse landscape of the planet. Admixture maketh the people, not people the admixture.


Turkic is just a more historical name for Mongolian. Turkic, Mongolian, same people.

Prior to them was the Arabs, and prior to them was nobody, the Arabs invented Islam.
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Re: What are you doing?

Postby MagsJ » Wed Aug 03, 2022 6:01 am

_
People were migrating across continents long before Islam came along.. but not invading them obviously, lol.

I guess the Arabs needed their own religion, to separate them from the Goyim and the Judaeans and the Africans..
The possibility of anything we can imagine existing is endless and infinite.. ~MagsJ

I haven't got the time to spend the time reading something that is telling me nothing, as I will never be able to get back that time, and I may need it for something important at some point in time.. Huh!? ~MagsJ

You’re suggestions and I just simply don’t mix.. like oil on water, or a very bad DJ ~MagsJ

Examine what is said, not him who speaks ~Arab proverb

aes Sanātana Dharma Pali: the eternal way ~it should not be rigid, but inclusive of the best of all knowledge for the sake of Ṛta.. which is endless.
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Re: What are you doing?

Postby origami » Wed Aug 03, 2022 6:02 am

If what you mean is that, on the whole, these empires were much less bloody or imposed affairs than people like to make out nowadays, I agree absolutely. On the whole, the imperial seat was a faraway thing with very little consequence on local life. What these empires did do was serve as a crystallization point for a bunch of different cultures. It happened for the Arabs as much as for the Turks (aka Mongols), the British, the Spanish, the Aztecs, etc etc etc.
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Re: What are you doing?

Postby origami » Wed Aug 03, 2022 6:04 am

MagsJ wrote:_
People were migrating across continents long before Islam came along.. but not invading them obviously, lol.

I guess the Arabs needed their own religion, to separate them from the Goyim and the Judaeans and the Africans..


My personal opinion is that they were very impressed by the Christianity they encountered in Constantinople, and forged their own variant. Bien sure, taking much from whatever their original religion must have been.
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Re: What are you doing?

Postby origami » Wed Aug 03, 2022 6:06 am

But wars there were, and it was through the sword that Islam was spread. And it was an Arab religion.
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Re: What are you doing?

Postby MagsJ » Wed Aug 03, 2022 6:17 am

_
They, and other religions, seem to have calmed down now.. about being the only one true religion.

..anyway, religion should be by inheritance, not forced conversion.. that’s how I acquired mine, and I quite like them.. I’d rather be none, than any other.

The Turks became mixed quite quickly, with admixture from the neighbouring Peoples.. hence many Europeans having Asian physical traits.. Eurasia, Mesoamerica, Pacific Islanders, etc.
Last edited by MagsJ on Wed Aug 03, 2022 6:20 am, edited 1 time in total.
The possibility of anything we can imagine existing is endless and infinite.. ~MagsJ

I haven't got the time to spend the time reading something that is telling me nothing, as I will never be able to get back that time, and I may need it for something important at some point in time.. Huh!? ~MagsJ

You’re suggestions and I just simply don’t mix.. like oil on water, or a very bad DJ ~MagsJ

Examine what is said, not him who speaks ~Arab proverb

aes Sanātana Dharma Pali: the eternal way ~it should not be rigid, but inclusive of the best of all knowledge for the sake of Ṛta.. which is endless.
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Re: What are you doing?

Postby origami » Wed Aug 03, 2022 6:19 am

MagsJ wrote:..anyway, religion should be by inheritance, not forced conversion.. that’s how I acquired mine, and I quite like them.. I’d rather be none, than any other.


It's funny, I feel the same way.

MagsJ wrote:They, and other religions, seem to have calmed down now.. about being the only one true religion.


Well, that's exceedingly arguable. I think it's more the case that the Muslim world is no longer capable to impose Islam. Most Muslims, from the polls I have seen, still think all governments should be ruled by Sharia law. Most of them, I agree, don't seem angry about it though. But some are.

MagsJ wrote:The Turks became mixed quite quickly, with admixture from the neighbouring Peoples.. hence many Europeans having Asian physical traits. Eurasia? lol


Yeah, I guess it must have happened to all imperial peoples. But maybe the Mongols specially, because they instantly adopted the cultures they encountered.
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Re: What are you doing?

Postby origami » Wed Aug 03, 2022 6:23 am

origami wrote:
MagsJ wrote:..anyway, religion should be by inheritance, not forced conversion.. that’s how I acquired mine, and I quite like them.. I’d rather be none, than any other.


It's funny, I feel the same way.



Even as I say this, as I look around the world to the different peoples Christianity was imposed on, and the feeling of brotherhood I have with them when we have nothing else in common, well... One can't say that one sees no justice in the imperial instinct.

It's just a nostalgia thing though. I am more bothered by the idea of other religions being lost than by the idea of mine no longer being imposed.
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Re: What are you doing?

Postby origami » Wed Aug 03, 2022 6:27 am

I think it is possible to have a general feeling of religiosity, of anger at sacrilege, when people defile ancient Aztec temples, for example, of awe at the sacred, that isn't necessarily bound to one single religion.

To be distinguished, however, by the sort of neobudist idea that all religions are just shadow reflections of some true religion. That is the opposite of what I mean. I consider that to be very bestial sacrilege.

People spend thousands of years developping rites and worhipping Gods, and you are here to tell them it's all fake?

New age hippies somehow turn out to be the most despotic of tyrants.
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Re: What are you doing?

Postby origami » Wed Aug 03, 2022 6:30 am

Of course, in ancient times, that was the common perspective. A Greek, for being an Olimpian, did not for that reason think any neighbouring religion was contradicted or less sacred. That's how polytheism came to be in the first place, people just borrowing Gods from eachother.

When people told eachother about their Gods, they didn't think "oh, look, an alternate religion." They thought "oh, look, a God I didn't know about."
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Re: What are you doing?

Postby MagsJ » Wed Aug 03, 2022 6:34 am

_
..and then religion went cray, and went on a mass conversion bender.. except H(S)induism and Judaism.. they stuck to the ancestral line. Why didn’t Arabs?
Last edited by MagsJ on Wed Aug 03, 2022 6:36 am, edited 1 time in total.
The possibility of anything we can imagine existing is endless and infinite.. ~MagsJ

I haven't got the time to spend the time reading something that is telling me nothing, as I will never be able to get back that time, and I may need it for something important at some point in time.. Huh!? ~MagsJ

You’re suggestions and I just simply don’t mix.. like oil on water, or a very bad DJ ~MagsJ

Examine what is said, not him who speaks ~Arab proverb

aes Sanātana Dharma Pali: the eternal way ~it should not be rigid, but inclusive of the best of all knowledge for the sake of Ṛta.. which is endless.
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Re: What are you doing?

Postby origami » Wed Aug 03, 2022 6:35 am

Well, others survived too, albeit in more clandestine forms.

But I agree. A kind of impulse towards homogenization gripped the world.
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Re: What are you doing?

Postby origami » Wed Aug 03, 2022 6:38 am

MagsJ wrote:_
Why didn’t Arabs?


Probably for the same reason as the Romans. The unprecedented power offered by the new idea.

They did, between them, conquer the entire planet.
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Re: What are you doing?

Postby MagsJ » Wed Aug 03, 2022 6:38 am

origami wrote:But I agree. A kind of impulse towards homogenization gripped the world.

Yea.. why?

The Crusades were Christianity v Islam.. a very bloody period in human history.
The possibility of anything we can imagine existing is endless and infinite.. ~MagsJ

I haven't got the time to spend the time reading something that is telling me nothing, as I will never be able to get back that time, and I may need it for something important at some point in time.. Huh!? ~MagsJ

You’re suggestions and I just simply don’t mix.. like oil on water, or a very bad DJ ~MagsJ

Examine what is said, not him who speaks ~Arab proverb

aes Sanātana Dharma Pali: the eternal way ~it should not be rigid, but inclusive of the best of all knowledge for the sake of Ṛta.. which is endless.
User avatar
MagsJ
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Re: What are you doing?

Postby origami » Wed Aug 03, 2022 6:39 am

MagsJ wrote:
origami wrote:But I agree. A kind of impulse towards homogenization gripped the world.

Yea.. why?

The Crusades were Christianity v Islam.. a very bloody period in human history.


One empire trying to prevail over another.
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Re: What are you doing?

Postby origami » Wed Aug 03, 2022 6:40 am

But also let's not forget Budism. The third leg in this homogenization story.
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Re: What are you doing?

Postby MagsJ » Wed Aug 03, 2022 6:43 am

_
Like you said.. the thought of such power, made them do it.

..making men do such cruel and barbaric things, in turn.
The possibility of anything we can imagine existing is endless and infinite.. ~MagsJ

I haven't got the time to spend the time reading something that is telling me nothing, as I will never be able to get back that time, and I may need it for something important at some point in time.. Huh!? ~MagsJ

You’re suggestions and I just simply don’t mix.. like oil on water, or a very bad DJ ~MagsJ

Examine what is said, not him who speaks ~Arab proverb

aes Sanātana Dharma Pali: the eternal way ~it should not be rigid, but inclusive of the best of all knowledge for the sake of Ṛta.. which is endless.
User avatar
MagsJ
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Re: What are you doing?

Postby origami » Wed Aug 03, 2022 6:43 am

And then, of course, communism. The ultimate homogenizationizer.

At least Islam, Christianity and Budism only demand you worship their God and follow certain rules and customs. Communism demands you become a specific type of person down to the very last detail, down to your very mind.
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Re: What are you doing?

Postby origami » Wed Aug 03, 2022 6:44 am

MagsJ wrote:_
Like you said.. the thought of such power, made them do it.

..making men do such cruel and barbaric things, in turn.


To be fair, men were pretty barbaric already. They were just less interested in erasing their enemy's past.
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