## a thread for mundane ironists

This is the place to shave off that long white beard and stop being philosophical; a forum for members to just talk like normal human beings.

### Re: a thread for mundane ironists

Olga Tokarczuk

Dear brothers, we give you the right to choose your death.

And, for some of us, that ain't nothing.

It has to do instead with the presentiment men have at every moment of their lives, a foreboding adamantly hushed and hidden—that left to their own devices, in the dull, quiet company of passing time, they would atrophy faster. As though they’d been designed for a brief spurt of intensity, a high-stakes race, a triumph and, immediately afterward, exhaustion.

For example, look at how exhausted I am here.

To tell the truth, I liked the concept of evil people who eliminate each other, in a chain.

Great, he thought, another concept.

She often reflected on how her life had turned out, and she was coming to the conclusion that the truth was simple: men needed women more than women needed men.

Next up: He often reflected on how his life turned out.

In fact, thought Karen, women could get along perfectly fine without men altogether.

Let's start here, okay?

Who divided the world into useless and useful, and by what right?

Yo, Mr. Objectivist! Explain that to the Kids!!
He was like a man who wanted to change all; and could not; so burned with his impotence; and had only me, an infinitely small microcosm to convert or detest. John Fowles

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### Re: a thread for mundane ironists

Philosophy Tweets

"All knowledge degenerates into probability.” David Hume

You know the drill: cause and effect vs. correlation.
Supposedly, even in the either/or world.

"The reality we can put into words is never reality itself." Werner Heisenberg

You know the drill: cause and effect vs. correlation.
Supposedly, even in the either/or world.

"Not only is the Universe stranger than we think, it is stranger than we can think." Werner Heisenberg

Yo, peacegirl!
Among, say, others here?

"Why look for conspiracy when stupidity can explain so much." Johann Wolfgang von Goethe

Imagine then his reaction to urwrongx1000!!

“With courage you will dare to take risks, have the strength to be compassionate, and the wisdom to be humble. Courage is the foundation of integrity.” Mark Twain

I'm sorry but we'll still need a context.

"Travel is fatal to prejudice, bigotry, and narrow-mindedness.” Mark Twain

Someimes, for example, around the next corner.
He was like a man who wanted to change all; and could not; so burned with his impotence; and had only me, an infinitely small microcosm to convert or detest. John Fowles

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And here: viewtopic.php?f=1&t=194382

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### Re: a thread for mundane ironists

Emile Durkheim

Our whole social environment seems to us to be filled with forces which really exist only in our own minds.

And what pitiful minds at that, right Kids?

There is no society known where a more or less developed criminality is not found under different forms. No people exists whose morality is not daily infringed upon. We must therefore call crime necessary and declare that it cannot be non-existent, that the fundamental conditions of social organization, as they are understood, logically imply it.

Put your money down: genes more or less than memes?

If religion has given birth to all that is essential in society, it is because the idea of society is the soul of religion.

In other words, with or without God.

The first and most basic rule is to consider social facts as things.

Our things or their things in particular.

The totality of beliefs and sentiments common to the average members of a society forms a determinate system with a life of its own. It can be termed the collective or creative consciousness.

Or brainwashing and indoctrination.

To pursue a goal which is by definition unattainable is to condemn oneself to a state of perpetual unhappiness.

First up, of course: define definition.
He was like a man who wanted to change all; and could not; so burned with his impotence; and had only me, an infinitely small microcosm to convert or detest. John Fowles

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### Re: a thread for mundane ironists

Philosophy Tweets

"A pessimist is a well-informed optimist." Mark Twain

Not much that isn't applicable to. You know, being a particularly profound and problematic pessimist myself.

“Don’t bend; don’t water it down; don’t try to make it logical; don’t edit your own soul according to the fashion. Rather, follow your most intense obsessions mercilessly.” Franz Kafka

That's what I do here. Much to your chagrin, right?

“The secret to happiness is to face the fact that the world is horrible.” Bertrand Russell

You know, of you're being optimistic.

"The secret of getting ahead is getting started." Mark Twain

Or, for some here, falling farther and further behind.

"Everything we call real is made of things that cannot be regarded as real." Niels Bohr

Surreal maybe.

"What sort of philosophy one chooses depends on what sort of person one is." Johann Gottlieb Fichte

Right, Mr. Objectivist?
He was like a man who wanted to change all; and could not; so burned with his impotence; and had only me, an infinitely small microcosm to convert or detest. John Fowles

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### Re: a thread for mundane ironists

Louise Bourgeois

Art is a guarantee of sanity.

You know, whatever that might be nowadays.

Artists are born not made. There's nothing you can do for them.

You know, not unlike all the rest of us.

The twentieth-century artist who uses symbols is alienated because the system of symbols is a private one. After you have dealt with the symbols you are still private, you are still lonely, because you are not sure anyone will understand it except yourself.

Next up: the twenty-first century philosopher.

It is not so much where my motivation comes from but rather how it manages to survive.

Especially here, now. Yo, Carleas!

I do not need the musing of the philosophers to tell me what I am doing. It would be more interesting to let me know why I am doing it.

Right, like that's what philosophers can tell us.

I found in rules of mathematics a peace and a trust that I could not place in human beings. This sublimation was total and remained total.

Back again to this: whatever works.
He was like a man who wanted to change all; and could not; so burned with his impotence; and had only me, an infinitely small microcosm to convert or detest. John Fowles

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### Re: a thread for mundane ironists

Philosophy Tweets

"Only one man ever understood me, and he didn't understand me." Johann Gottlieb Fichte

He said, glaring into the mirror.

"There is a love that blazes up and is forgotten, then there is a love until death." Soren Kierkegaard

So they still tell me.

"For us physicists believe the separation between past, present, and future is only an illusion, although a convincing one." Albert Einstein

On the other hand, one suspects, he's still dead.

"It is utterly implausible that a mathematical formula should make the future known to us, and those who think it can would once have believed in witchcraft." Jacob Bernoulli

Or objective morality.

"The whole problem with the world is that fools and fanatics are always so certain of themselves, but wiser men so full of doubts." Bertrand Russell

Anyone here doubt that?

"You can look at a picture for a week and never think of it again. You can also look at a picture for a second and think of it all your life." Donna Tartt

"Does such a thing as 'the fatal flaw,' that showy dark crack running down the middle of a life, exist outside literature? I used to think it didn't. Now I think it does. And I think that mine is this: a morbid longing for the picturesque at all costs." Donna Tartt

My own fatal flaw is still having been born.
He was like a man who wanted to change all; and could not; so burned with his impotence; and had only me, an infinitely small microcosm to convert or detest. John Fowles

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### Re: a thread for mundane ironists

Kiki Smith

Some people think or expect that you should make the same kinds of art forever because it creates a convenient narrative... I want my work to embody my inherent contradictions.

You tell me: https://www.google.com/search?source=un ... 66&bih=625

The point isn't to know what you're doing. The point is to have an experience doing something.

You know, sometimes.

I like that feeling when you’re making art, that you’re taking the energy out of your body and putting it into a physical object. I like things that are labor-intensive: you make a little thing and another little thing and another little thing, and eventually you see a possibility.

Or, if you're a philosopher, into words. Though, for some here, with little or no possibility of going much beyond that.

Art is a reflection of everything that impacts your life.

Would that philosophy here could be the same.

You can have fantasies about having control over the world, but I know I can barely control my kitchen sink.

Actually, my own sink is still pretty much a faithful companion.

I think making things beautiful is important. But often what's first considered ugly is beautiful, too.

Cue dasein. And, for me, godot.
He was like a man who wanted to change all; and could not; so burned with his impotence; and had only me, an infinitely small microcosm to convert or detest. John Fowles

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### Re: a thread for mundane ironists

Philosophy Tweets

"Physics tells us observations can't be predicted absolutely. Rather, there's a range of possible observations each with a different probability." Robert Lanza

Next up: what ethics tells us.

"The greatest lie ever told about love is that it sets you free." Zadie Smith

Next up: the greatest lie ever told about truth.

"The most painful state of being is remembering the future, particularly the one you'll never have." Soren Kierkegaard

After all, I'm still here, right?

"Life improves slowly and goes wrong fast, and only catastrophe is clearly visible." Edward Teller

Like, to cite but one example, the catastrophe that is now ILP.

"Don't despair, not even over the fact that you don't despair." Franz Kafka

Or, sure, despair all the more.

"We have now sunk to a depth at which restatement of the obvious is the first duty of intelligent men." George Orwell

Remember when we had only sunk down that far?
He was like a man who wanted to change all; and could not; so burned with his impotence; and had only me, an infinitely small microcosm to convert or detest. John Fowles

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### Re: a thread for mundane ironists

Ernest Cline

If there was a bright center to the universe, I was on the planet it was farthest from.

And the planet we are on?

Now, I have a new quest. A far more important one.
And that is?
Revenge.

True, nothing more important than that.

Many species lack the ability to defy their own animal instincts and allow their intellect to prevail.

Here we call them Kids. And objectivists.

What happens when you die? Well, we're not completely sure. But the evidence seems to suggest that nothing happens. You're just dead, your brains stop working, and then you're not around to ask annoying questions anymore. Those stories your heard? About going to a wonderful place called 'heaven' where there is no more pain or death and you live forever in a state of perpetual happiness? Also total bullshit. Just like all that God stuff. There's no evidence of a heaven and there never was. We made that up too. Wishful thinking. So now you have to live the rest of your life knowing you're going to die someday and disappear forever. Sorry.

Right, I'll bet he's sorry.

You know you’ve totally screwed up your life when your whole world turns to shit and the only person you have to talk to is your system agent software.

Fortunately, I can't even imagine it.

In those days, if you wanted to escape to another world, you had to create it yourself, using your brain, some paper, pencils, dice, and a few rule books.

I know: shudder to think.
He was like a man who wanted to change all; and could not; so burned with his impotence; and had only me, an infinitely small microcosm to convert or detest. John Fowles

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### Re: a thread for mundane ironists

Philosophy Tweets

“Love is a striking example of how little reality means to us.” Marcel Proust

What's that make hate then, he wondered.

"Perhaps it is better to wake up after all, even to suffer, rather than to remain a dupe to illusions all one's life." Kate Chopin

No fucking way, right?

"There are some people who leave impressions not so lasting as the imprint of an oar upon the water." Kate Chopin

Well, it is, after all, a very, very, very big universe.

"Physics is like sex: sure, it may give some practical results, but that's not why we do it." Richard Feynman

Tell that to Satyr!!

"The loneliest moment in someone’s life is when they are watching their whole world fall apart, and all they can do is stare blankly." F. Scott Fitzgerald

And, if you are really, really lucky, only once.

"At the core of all well-founded belief lies belief that is unfounded." Ludwig Wittgenstein

Going all the way back to, well, you know.
He was like a man who wanted to change all; and could not; so burned with his impotence; and had only me, an infinitely small microcosm to convert or detest. John Fowles

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### Re: a thread for mundane ironists

Pierre-Auguste Renoir

Shall I tell you what I think are the two qualities of a work of art? First, it must be indescribable, and second, it must be inimitable.

You know, like most of the posts here.

The ideas come afterwards, when the picture is finished.

You do get this, don't you?

If you paint the leaf on a tree without using a model, your imagination will only supply you with a few leaves; but Nature offers you millions, all on the same tree. No two leaves are exactly the same. The artist who paints only what is in his mind must very soon repeat himself.

Next up: painting fingerprints.

What seems most significant to me about our movement is that we have freed painting from the importance of the subject. I am at liberty to paint flowers and call them flowers, without their needing to tell a story.

Of course that's a story in and of itself.

It's with my brush that I make love.

And if she objects?

If dabbling in art didn't amuse me, I beg you to believe that I wouldn't do it.

Lots and lots and lots of dabblers here, right? For example, in philosophy.
He was like a man who wanted to change all; and could not; so burned with his impotence; and had only me, an infinitely small microcosm to convert or detest. John Fowles

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### Re: a thread for mundane ironists

Philosophy Tweets

"How small a thought it takes to fill a life." Ludwig Wittgenstein

For example: https://www.ilovephilosophy.com/viewtop ... 2&t=179879

"Don't for heaven's sake, be afraid of talking nonsense! But you must pay attention to your nonsense." Ludwig Wittgenstein

For example: https://www.ilovephilosophy.com/viewtop ... 2&t=179879

"I don't know why we are here, but I'm pretty sure that it is not in order to enjoy ourselves." Ludwig Wittgenstein

Let's dare to disagree!!

"My idea of good company is the company of clever, well-informed people who have a great deal of conversation; that is what I call good company." Jane Austen

You know, the way it used to be here. Before the invasion of the Pinheads.

"One sad thing about this world is that the acts that take the most out of you are usually the ones that people will never know about. " Anne Tyler

Let's exchange acts here.

"I'm telling you a lie in a vicious effort that you will repeat my lie over and over until it becomes true." Lady Gaga

You first.
He was like a man who wanted to change all; and could not; so burned with his impotence; and had only me, an infinitely small microcosm to convert or detest. John Fowles

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### Re: a thread for mundane ironists

Cindy Sherman

I’m trying to make other people recognize something of themselves rather than me.

Me too. Well, not counting the pinheads of course.

I like making images that from a distance seem kind of seductive, colorful, luscious and engaging, and then you realize what you're looking at is something totally opposite.

You tell me: https://www.google.com/search?source=un ... 66&bih=625

Nowadays, with digital printing, it's so easy to make everything perfect, which is not always a good idea. Sometimes the mistakes are really what make a piece.

Or a post.

The still must tease with the promise of a story the viewer of it itches to be told.

You know, if there is a story to tell.

I can be fearlessly strong at times to protect an inner frailty.

I tried that once myself. And look at me now.

I didn't want to make 'high' art, I had no interest in using paint, I wanted to find something that anyone could relate to without knowing about contemporary art.

Next up: "high" philosophy.
He was like a man who wanted to change all; and could not; so burned with his impotence; and had only me, an infinitely small microcosm to convert or detest. John Fowles

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### Re: a thread for mundane ironists

Elena Epaneshnik

My new to-do list:

You tell me.

Top 3 Deadliest Weapons in Russian Literature:
1. Axes
2. Trains
3. Authors

Top 3 Deadliest Weapons in German Literature:
1. Sanatoriums in the magic mountains
2. Mountain lakes
3. German language

Next up: https://www.nytimes.com/books/best-sell ... r-fiction/

I'm one tear older than you

Or one scar.

A little announcement: Russian government is about to ban Twitter in about a month. Not sure if that's really gonna happen, but that's everywhere on the news, which is depressing.

Well, at least they're not still Commies.

If you really like someone, don't ever ruin it by falling in love with them.

Unless of course they're drop dead gorgeous.

As an adult, I take responsibility for everything that depends on me.
As a neurotic, I take responsibility for everything that does not and will never depend on me.

Or, sure, split the difference.
He was like a man who wanted to change all; and could not; so burned with his impotence; and had only me, an infinitely small microcosm to convert or detest. John Fowles

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### Re: a thread for mundane ironists

Marina Abramovic

The function of the artist in a disturbed society is to give awareness of the universe, to ask the right questions, and to elevate the mind.

New thread: the function of the philosopher in a really, really disturbed society.

I think communication starts when words are not present at all ... I think we put so much emphasis on language, actually silence is so much more important.

Not counting us of course.

Theatre is fake...The knife is not real, the blood is not real, and the emotions are not real. Performance is just the opposite: the knife is real, the blood is real, and the emotions are real.

So, what's that make what we do here?

Once, Picasso was asked what his paintings meant. He said, “Do you ever know what the birds are singing? You don’t. But you listen to them anyway.” So, sometimes with art, it is important just to look.

And, sure, maybe even learn something.

True love for whatever you are doing is the answer to everything.

On the other hand, what is the question?

I am only interested in the ideas that become obsessive and make me feel uneasy. The ideas that I'm afraid of.

Mine: How ought one to live?
He was like a man who wanted to change all; and could not; so burned with his impotence; and had only me, an infinitely small microcosm to convert or detest. John Fowles

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### Re: a thread for mundane ironists

Werner Twertzog

Do not be imprisoned by the choices of your younger self.

You know, if that's still an option.

I would strike the sun if it insulted me. But I choose not to.

Or, sure, "choose" not to.

I am exhausted by your insane demands, America.

Not to mention your imperialistic designs. And don't fool yourself about that.

Life is a parade of absurdities and pain, and then we die, alone, in filth. So, yes, little girl, I shall buy a box of Thin Mints.

Good for him!

The Royal Family are not lizard people. They are salamander people. As we all know.

So, is that better or worse?

I do not like this racist book.
I do not like it in a nook.
You will not find it in my hands.
But I do not wish to see it banned.

Dr. Seuss...the Nazi?
He was like a man who wanted to change all; and could not; so burned with his impotence; and had only me, an infinitely small microcosm to convert or detest. John Fowles

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### Re: a thread for mundane ironists

Napoleon Bonaparte

It is not necessary to bury the truth. It is sufficient merely to delay it until nobody cares.

Tell me that's not still true!!

You don't reason with intellectuals. You shoot them.

Next up: what you do with Kids.

The purpose of religion is to keep the poor from killing the rich.

And all it takes are flocks of sheep.

The World is not ruined by the wickedness of the wicked, but by the weakness of the good.

Or, sure, for some, the other way around.

Never ascribe to malice that which is adequately explained by stupidity.

Like it can't be both. Right, Kids?

Alexander, Caesar, Charlemagne, and I have founded empires. But on what did we rest the creations of our genius? Upon force. Jesus Christ founded his empire upon love; and at this hour millions of men would die for him.

Wink, wink.
He was like a man who wanted to change all; and could not; so burned with his impotence; and had only me, an infinitely small microcosm to convert or detest. John Fowles

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iambiguous
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### Re: a thread for mundane ironists

Existential Comics

I can't relate to anyone who didn't, at least at some point, dream of being an Egyptologist and spending their life trying to decipher hieroglyphics.

No, really, these people do exist.
Like these guys:
https://youtu.be/jUjxC3fCt-c

Things the democrats have accomplished so far:
- tried and failed to impeach a someone already voted out of office.
- claimed by $2000 they meant$1400 and didn't even give us the $1400. - managed to forget about the kids in cages. - saying the word 'diversity' a lot. The DINOs in other words. Billionaires are like "yes I have more wealth than I could ever spend in a thousand lives, but Forbes says I'm only 6th on the list so I have to break the union or I might not move up as fast." Next: the guy who is 1st on the list. American billionaires gained a trillion dollars since the pandemic started, and someone like Bernie Sanders will propose a wealth tax that takes like$50 billion from them and Republicans and Democrats will unite to be like "shut up LENIN that's not how the system works."

Well, it's not, right?

...ah yes, the "Free Press", that's when like eight billionaires own every news network, social media site, and newspaper, allowing them to control the narrative on every major issue...

Okay, maybe 9 or 10.

"We can't solve climate change under capitalism" doesn't mean "we should do nothing until we live in a communist utopia". It means you can never trust the mechanisms of capitalism and the profit motive to be part of the solution. They will only ever obstruct progress.

You know, like with health care.
He was like a man who wanted to change all; and could not; so burned with his impotence; and had only me, an infinitely small microcosm to convert or detest. John Fowles

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### Re: a thread for mundane ironists

You need to get out more.
Sculptor

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### Re: a thread for mundane ironists

George Saunders

At times, they're so Right and I'm so Left, we agree.

Two words:
1] deep
2] state

A novel is just a story that hasn't yet discovered a way to be brief.

Two words:
1] Atlas
2] Shrugged

She's sweet but too apocalyptic. You try kissing someone good-night who's just told you for the umpteenth time that the world's experiencing its last disgusting paroxysm before Rapture.

I hear that.

No one who has ever done anything worth doing has gone uncriticized.

And not just me here.

Working with language is a means by which we can identify the bullshit within ourselves and others.

And not just ours here.

This meal we just ate? says Aunt Lydia. In many countries, this sort of meal would only be eaten by royalty.
There are countries where people could live one year on what we throw out in one week, says Grandpa Kirk.
I thought it was they could live one year on what we throw out in one day, says Grandma Sally.
I thought it was they could live ten years on what we throw out in one minute, says Uncle Gus.
Well anyway, says Doris. We are very lucky.

Blah, blah, blah, right?
He was like a man who wanted to change all; and could not; so burned with his impotence; and had only me, an infinitely small microcosm to convert or detest. John Fowles

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iambiguous
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### Re: a thread for mundane ironists

Sculptor wrote:You need to get out more.

Being new here, you may not know that, for reasons "beyond my control", I can't.
He was like a man who wanted to change all; and could not; so burned with his impotence; and had only me, an infinitely small microcosm to convert or detest. John Fowles

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iambiguous
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### Re: a thread for mundane ironists

Doth

We should be thankful that women want equality and not revenge.

Bring it on, he yelped.

Start off each morning with a cup of coffee, respect that time wants you dead, be good to each other & then disappear beyond the tree line.

And then report back to us.

Let an ancient demon take over your anxiety for a while. You’ve earned it.

Well, anyway, I have.

Waking up always raises an age-old dilemma: why?

Uh, because?

Be the reason why the temperature drops when you enter a room.

If only until the pipes burst.

As a goth, having an hour of darkness be taken away is completely unacceptable.

Right, like he won't get it back.
He was like a man who wanted to change all; and could not; so burned with his impotence; and had only me, an infinitely small microcosm to convert or detest. John Fowles

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iambiguous
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### Re: a thread for mundane ironists

Annie Leibovitz

You have trust in what you think. If you splinter yourself and try to please everyone, you can't.

You know, whatever that means.

When I take a picture I take 10 percent of what I see.

You know, whatever that means.

Photography is not something you retire from.

As with philosophy, some take it to the grave.

A photograph is just a little, teeny-weeny, small piece of life. I feel like I see so much more than what I can actually get.

Or, sure, a post here.

I don't think there is anything wrong with white space. I don't think it's a problem to have a blank wall.

My guess: you can go too far with it.

You don't have to sort of enhance reality. There is nothing stranger than truth.

He was like a man who wanted to change all; and could not; so burned with his impotence; and had only me, an infinitely small microcosm to convert or detest. John Fowles

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iambiguous
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### Re: a thread for mundane ironists

God

Just a reminder.

In other words, I'm guessing, not just in Heaven.

If you had more money you'd be happier.

In other words, I'm guessing, not just in Heaven.

If you don't like harp music, go to hell.

Down there? Bagpipes or accordians, he figured.

If I could do it all over again, I wouldn't.

Suggesting of course that He can't.

Never let the fear of failure keep you from failing.

Hmm, where's He going with this?

It's time to stop allowing people with severe mental illness to legislate guns.

Not to mention to post here.
He was like a man who wanted to change all; and could not; so burned with his impotence; and had only me, an infinitely small microcosm to convert or detest. John Fowles

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iambiguous
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Joined: Tue Nov 16, 2010 8:03 pm
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### Re: a thread for mundane ironists

Olga Tokarczuk

...impotence. At the same time the ironists always have a world outlook that they proclaim triumphantly, though if one starts badgering and questioning them about the details, it turns out to consist of nothing but trivia and banalities.

Not counting this ironist of course.

Philosophical concepts—those were what kept him up at night; they belonged to him.

Concepts. The buck stops here.

From nature’s point of view no creatures are useful or not useful. That’s just a foolish distinction applied by people.

Or a "foolish" distinction.

In the last few years she has realized that all you have to do to become invisible is be a woman of a certain age, without any outstanding features: it’s automatic.

That and a certain race or class.

I'd started to put on my boots, but that terrible gray morning alarmed me. Sometimes I feel as if we're living inside a tomb, a large, spacious one for lots of people. I looked at the world wreathed in gray Murk, cold and nasty. The prison is not outside, but inside each of us.

Murk? Look it up.

Being healthy is an insecure state and does not bode well. It’s better to be ill in a quiet way, then at least we know what we’re going to die of.

Next up: ill in a really, really loud way.
He was like a man who wanted to change all; and could not; so burned with his impotence; and had only me, an infinitely small microcosm to convert or detest. John Fowles

Start here: viewtopic.php?f=1&t=176529
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iambiguous
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Joined: Tue Nov 16, 2010 8:03 pm
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