a thread for mundane ironists

This is the place to shave off that long white beard and stop being philosophical; a forum for members to just talk like normal human beings.

Re: a thread for mundane ironists

Postby iambiguous » Tue Dec 22, 2020 5:27 pm

Brian Cox

The correct statement of individual rights is that everyone has the right to an opinion, but crucially, that opinion can be roundly ignored and even made fun of, particularly if it is demonstrably nonsense!


Tell me I'm not pursuing this full time here. :wink:

You dig deeper and it gets more and more complicated, and you get confused, and it's tricky and it's hard, but...It is beautiful.

That and, as LLoyd pointed out, "unimaginably violent".

Every carbon atom in every living thing on the planet was produced in the heart of a dying star.

Good to know, he shrugged.

In science, there are no universal truths, just views of the world that have yet to be shown to be false.

You know, theoretically.

When you fall into a black hole you will be literally spaghettified.

You know, theoretically.

As we get older, things seem less important.

Not counting all the things that overwhelm you completely.
He was like a man who wanted to change all; and could not; so burned with his impotence; and had only me, an infinitely small microcosm to convert or detest. John Fowles

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Re: a thread for mundane ironists

Postby iambiguous » Tue Dec 22, 2020 7:22 pm

Philosophy Tweets

“Morality is simply the attitude we adopt towards people we personally dislike.” Oscar Wilde


And let's keep it that way.

"The greater part of mankind may be divided into two classes; that of shallow thinkers who fall short of the truth; and that of abstruse thinkers who go beyond it." David Hume

1] the Kids
2] the serious philosophers


“Perhaps that is the greatest crime of conquest--that a civilization is denied the right to evolve beyond its own embarrassment.” Neal Shusterman

That is one way to look at it.

“Life is a moderately good play with a badly written third act.” Truman Capote

And then the curtain closes for, say, all of eternity. No less for him than for the Clutters.

"History teaches us the mistakes we are going to make.” Jean Bodin

If only from the cradle to the grave.

"Freedom is what you do with what's been done to you.” Jean-Paul Sartre

In other words, actual options.
He was like a man who wanted to change all; and could not; so burned with his impotence; and had only me, an infinitely small microcosm to convert or detest. John Fowles

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Re: a thread for mundane ironists

Postby iambiguous » Tue Dec 22, 2020 11:00 pm

Monique Wittig

The dictionary is, however, only a rough draft.


And, even then, denoting things only able to be denoted.

A materialist feminist approach to women's oppression destroys the idea that women are a 'natural group' . . . What the analysis accomplishes on the level of ideas, practice makes actual at the level of facts: by its very existence, lesbian society destroys the artificial (social) fact constituting women as a 'natural group.' A lesbian society pragmatically reveals that the division from men of which women have been the object is a political one . . .

Does this take me back. To, for example, my ex-wife.

It is oppression that creates sex and not the contrary.

Next up: Wilhelm Reich, sexual repression and the perverts.

The basic agreement between human beings, indeed what makes them human and makes them social, is language.

It would have to be that.

I feel a near passion for intelligence at grips with itself and not letting go.

I let go myself. Intelligently as it were.

Remember. Or, failing that, invent.

We'll need examples however.
He was like a man who wanted to change all; and could not; so burned with his impotence; and had only me, an infinitely small microcosm to convert or detest. John Fowles

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Re: a thread for mundane ironists

Postby iambiguous » Wed Dec 23, 2020 5:17 pm

Claudia Rankine

Because white men can’t police their imaginations, black men are dying.


Can't, sure. But, more likely, won't. At least around here.

I want to believe that in any relational moment a person understands that the other person in front of them is just another human being.

On the other hand, as Satyr suggested, "hell is other people". So expect to be objectified.

Define loneliness?
Yes.
It's what we can't do for each other.


Never been lonely myself, he noted. Except around others.

Where is the safest place when that place
Must be someplace other than in the body?


Obviously a trick question. Or, sure, you tell me.

The past is a life sentence, a blunt instrument aimed at tomorrow.

Some more than others. Guaranteed.

If you were writing an op-ed piece or an essay, somebody would be asking, "What's your point?" With poetry you can stay in a moment for as long as you want. Poetry is about metaphor, about a thing standing in for something else. It's the thing that opens out to something else. What that something else is changes for readers. So what's on the page - it falls away.

Aside from not much what does this explain?
He was like a man who wanted to change all; and could not; so burned with his impotence; and had only me, an infinitely small microcosm to convert or detest. John Fowles

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Re: a thread for mundane ironists

Postby iambiguous » Wed Dec 23, 2020 8:25 pm

Philosophy Tweets

"A sign of intelligence is an awareness of one's own ignorance." Niccolo Machiavelli


Yo, Kids!
On the other had, what's the use...?


"Artists make the culture not the critics." David Bowie

And then one by one they all die.

"Songs are more powerful than books." Elvis Costello

My guess: not all of them.
But, sure, for some, point taken.


“I stand between two worlds. I am at home in neither, and I suffer in consequence. You artists call me a bourgeois, and the bourgeois try to arrest me...I don't know which makes me feel worse.” Thomas Mann

Or, for some of us, better.

"It is easy to know what you want to say, but not to say it." Mario Vargas Llosa

Tell us about it.
Uh, right?


"No man can cause more grief than that one clinging blindly to the vices of his ancestors." William Faulkner

And, no, not just the fucking capitalists.
But, come on, nowadays mostly them.
He was like a man who wanted to change all; and could not; so burned with his impotence; and had only me, an infinitely small microcosm to convert or detest. John Fowles

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Re: a thread for mundane ironists

Postby iambiguous » Wed Dec 23, 2020 10:21 pm

Francis Picabia

A new gadget that lasts only five minutes is worth more than an immortal work that bores everyone.


Let's name names, Mr. Objectivist.

Knowledge is ancient error reflecting on its youth.

And then taken all the way to, say, the grave.

Maybe men are separated from each other only by the degree of their misery.

Maybe women too.

Nature is unfair? So much the better, inequality is the only bearable thing, the monotony of equality can only lead us to boredom.

Right, Phoneutria? 8)

Between my head and my hand, there is always the face of death.

Next up: between his head and his prick.

Good taste is as tiring as good company.

Hmm, what's that make bad taste then?
He was like a man who wanted to change all; and could not; so burned with his impotence; and had only me, an infinitely small microcosm to convert or detest. John Fowles

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And here: viewtopic.php?f=1&t=194382
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Re: a thread for mundane ironists

Postby iambiguous » Thu Dec 24, 2020 7:09 pm

Don DeLillo

It is possible to be homesick for a place even when you are there.


Just not here.

Tourism is the march of stupidity.

After all, look at the tourists here.

Was she naked? Lasher said.
To the waist, Cotsakis said.
From which direction? Lasher said.


Men, he thought! On the other hand, from the waist down...

I like the construction of sentences and the juxtaposition of words---not just how they sound or what they mean, but even what they look like.

I won't explain this if you don't.

The greater the scientific advance, the more primitive the fear.

Let's explain this. You know, if there is an explanation.

Insanity's so personal. It's hard to know who shares our secrets.

Me? Don't even think about it.

...why something and not nothing? why music and not noise?

Why why and not how?
He was like a man who wanted to change all; and could not; so burned with his impotence; and had only me, an infinitely small microcosm to convert or detest. John Fowles

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Re: a thread for mundane ironists

Postby iambiguous » Thu Dec 24, 2020 9:38 pm

Robert Rauschenberg

Success is a worn down pencil.


Or here a wore down keyboard. Unless, of course, instead of success, it's failure.

For me there is no difference between art and life.

But then [alas] those here who think there is no difference between philosophy and life.

I've not been cursed with talent, which could be a great inhibitor.

You wouldn't think so, would you? Unless of course you get his drift. A drift being all it can be.

It is impossible to have progress without conscience.

Yo, Wendy! Explain this to us. :lol:

My art is about paying attention - about the extremely dangerous possibility that you might be art.

My philosophy too. The dangerous possibility that one day it might also be yours?

I don't want a picture to look like something it isn't. I want it to look like something it is.

You tell me: https://www.google.com/search?source=un ... 42&bih=597
He was like a man who wanted to change all; and could not; so burned with his impotence; and had only me, an infinitely small microcosm to convert or detest. John Fowles

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And here: viewtopic.php?f=1&t=194382
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Re: a thread for mundane ironists

Postby iambiguous » Fri Dec 25, 2020 6:57 pm

Jamaica Kincaid

A great piece of literature encompasses all that is and all that will be.


You tell me: https://www.nytimes.com/books/best-sell ... r-fiction/

...when people say you're charming you are in deep trouble.

As opposed to, what, when they say you are the scum of the earth?

In my writing I'm trying to explore the violations people commit upon each other. And the important thing isn't whether I'm angry. The more important thing is, is it true? Do these things really happen?

Well, angry still works best for me. Or, rather, "me".

I think life is difficult and that's that. I am not at all - absolutely not at all - interested in the pursuit of happiness. I am not interested in the pursuit of positivity. I am interested in pursuing a truth, and the truth often seems to be not happiness but its opposite.

I take lots and lots and lots of respites from that myself.

...yet a memory cannot be trusted, for so much of the experience of the past is determined by the experience of the present.

Next up: trusting the future.

Tomorrow exists even though I may not exist in it.

Metaphysically as it were.
He was like a man who wanted to change all; and could not; so burned with his impotence; and had only me, an infinitely small microcosm to convert or detest. John Fowles

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Re: a thread for mundane ironists

Postby Lorikeet » Fri Dec 25, 2020 7:31 pm

Hey simpleton ...are you going to show me how to 'bring it down to earth" or not?
You aren't going to wait for me to be banned and then cast aspersion from the safety of your little den of dim-wits, are you?
No, that ain't your style, right?

You are on home turf, moron...these people are like you, even if they look down on you.
Trust me. This is why you are welcomed and I am not.
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Re: a thread for mundane ironists

Postby iambiguous » Fri Dec 25, 2020 10:46 pm

Olga Tokarczuk

Once we have reached a certain age, it's hard to be reconciled to the fact that people are always going to be impatient with us.


If not hate our fucking guts.

But it also crossed my mind that in spite of all, in spite of our fragility and ignorance, we have an incredible advantage over the stars – it is for us that time works, giving us a major opportunity to transform the suffering, aching world into a happy and peaceful one.

We'll need to hear from the stars of course.

She is happy, because she doesn’t have a single thought in her head, a single care, a single expectation or hope. It’s a good feeling.

Oh, and she's a Kid.

Winter mornings are made of steel; they have a metallic taste and sharp edges. On a Wednesday in January, at seven in the morning, it’s plain to see that the world was not made for Man, and definitely not for his comfort or pleasure.

That's why God invented Florida, right?

He said that death marks places like a dog marking its territory. Some people can sense it right away, while others simply start to feel uncomfortable after a time. Every stay in any place betrays the quiet ubiquitousness of the dead.

Or here the banned.

You know what, sometimes it seems to me we’re living in a world that we fabricate for ourselves. We decide what’s good and what isn’t, we draw maps of meanings for ourselves . . . And then we spend our whole lives struggling with what we have invented for ourselves. The problem is that each of us has our own version of it, so people find it hard to understand each other.

Among other things: :!: :!: :!:
He was like a man who wanted to change all; and could not; so burned with his impotence; and had only me, an infinitely small microcosm to convert or detest. John Fowles

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Re: a thread for mundane ironists

Postby iambiguous » Fri Dec 25, 2020 10:49 pm

Lorikeet wrote:Hey simpleton ...are you going to show me how to 'bring it down to earth" or not?
You aren't going to wait for me to be banned and then cast aspersion from the safety of your little den of dim-wits, are you?
No, that ain't your style, right?

You are on home turf, moron...these people are like you, even if they look down on you.
Trust me. This is why you are welcomed and I am not.


Let me put it this way:

If you are going to come into threads that I created myself here in order only to shit in them, I will personally request of the management that you be dealt with accordingly. Even polishyouth hasn't stooped that low.
He was like a man who wanted to change all; and could not; so burned with his impotence; and had only me, an infinitely small microcosm to convert or detest. John Fowles

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Re: a thread for mundane ironists

Postby Lorikeet » Fri Dec 25, 2020 10:56 pm

So much fear.
Did you not ask me to come?
Did you not tell them all how you would "thump' me?
Now you run...
Declaring victory....what age are you?
That's what little boys do......like poack.
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Re: a thread for mundane ironists

Postby Lorikeet » Fri Dec 25, 2020 10:57 pm

What is this your little echo chamber?
Niiiice...
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Re: a thread for mundane ironists

Postby iambiguous » Fri Dec 25, 2020 11:01 pm

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He was like a man who wanted to change all; and could not; so burned with his impotence; and had only me, an infinitely small microcosm to convert or detest. John Fowles

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Re: a thread for mundane ironists

Postby Lorikeet » Fri Dec 25, 2020 11:04 pm

I bet you sniff your own farts and you subjectively declare them flowery and aromatic...
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Re: a thread for mundane ironists

Postby iambiguous » Fri Dec 25, 2020 11:17 pm

Lorikeet wrote:So much fear.
Did you not ask me to come?
Did you not tell them all how you would "thump' me?
Now you run...
Declaring victory....what age are you?
That's what little boys do......like poack.


I asked you to come in order to discuss our moral and political philosophies without the risk of being tossed into the Dungeon. As I did in the OP and my second post here: https://www.ilovephilosophy.com/viewtop ... 1&t=196507

Instead, you configure into Curly and it's all about huffing and puffing and personal attacks. And that's fine on threads like that. Making a fool of you is always entertaining to me.

But if you do that here on the threads that I started or sustain...

https://www.ilovephilosophy.com/viewtop ... 1&t=170060
https://www.ilovephilosophy.com/viewtop ... 8&t=195930
https://www.ilovephilosophy.com/viewtop ... 8&t=196100
https://www.ilovephilosophy.com/viewtop ... 8&t=196110
https://www.ilovephilosophy.com/viewtop ... 1&t=175121
https://www.ilovephilosophy.com/viewtop ... 1&t=195600
https://www.ilovephilosophy.com/viewtop ... 1&t=176529
https://www.ilovephilosophy.com/viewtop ... 5&t=185296
https://www.ilovephilosophy.com/viewtop ... 1&t=175006
https://www.ilovephilosophy.com/viewtop ... 5&t=186929
https://www.ilovephilosophy.com/viewtop ... 1&t=195614
https://www.ilovephilosophy.com/viewtop ... 1&t=195964
https://www.ilovephilosophy.com/viewtop ... 5&t=185296
https://www.ilovephilosophy.com/viewtop ... 1&t=194382

...I will request of Carleas that you be kicked out again.
He was like a man who wanted to change all; and could not; so burned with his impotence; and had only me, an infinitely small microcosm to convert or detest. John Fowles

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Re: a thread for mundane ironists

Postby iambiguous » Sat Dec 26, 2020 2:35 am

Philosophy Tweets

“When it is dark enough, you can see the stars.” Ralph Waldo Emerson


Trust me though: not all of them.

"You should approach Joyce's Ulysses as the illiterate Baptist preacher approaches the Old Testament: with faith." William Faulkner

Nope, never did. And, no, never will.

“One must be very naïve or dishonest to imagine that men choose their beliefs independently of their situation.” Claude Lévi-Strauss

See, didn't I tell you? Hundreds and hundreds of times for example.

“We are like chameleons, we take our hue and the color of our moral character, from those who are around us.” John Locke

See, didn't I tell you? Hundreds and hundreds of times for example.

“There are crimes of passion and crimes of logic. The boundary between them is not clearly defined.” Albert Camus

Here of course that hardly ever comes up.

“...the object of waging a war is always to be in a better position in which to wage another war.” George Orwell

Yes, but, so far, only throughout the entirety of human history.
He was like a man who wanted to change all; and could not; so burned with his impotence; and had only me, an infinitely small microcosm to convert or detest. John Fowles

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Re: a thread for mundane ironists

Postby iambiguous » Sat Dec 26, 2020 7:30 pm

Angela Carter

It's every woman's tragedy, that, after a certain age, she looks like a female impersonator. Mind you, we've known some lovely female impersonators, in our time.


Next up: every man's tragedy.

What would the daughters of the rich do with themselves if the poor ceased to exist?

Any here we can ask?

The tiger will never lie down with the lamb; he acknowledges no pact that is not reciprocal. The lamb must learn to run with the tigers.

Probably another reference to Nietzsche, he thought.

The end of all stories, even if the writer forebears to mention it, is death, which is where time stops short. Sheherezade knew this, which is why she kept on spinning another story out of the bowels of the last one, never coming to a point where she could say: "This is the end." Because it would have been.

Let's run this by the Grim Reaper.

Proposition one: time is a man, space is a woman.

Remember when it was actually the other way around?

A young girl would go into the wood as trustingly as Red Riding Hood to her granny's house but this light admits no ambiguities and, here, she will be trapped in her own illusion because everything in the woods is exactly as it seems.

You tell me.
He was like a man who wanted to change all; and could not; so burned with his impotence; and had only me, an infinitely small microcosm to convert or detest. John Fowles

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Re: a thread for mundane ironists

Postby iambiguous » Sat Dec 26, 2020 8:57 pm

Werner Twertzog

Dear America: Please break into several small countries, so that each one can achieve its utopian/dystopian dream/nightmare of witch hunts, political purges, and ethnic cleansing before being scooped up by more coherent nation-states, like Germany.


Or Yugoslavia.

Dear America: Remember that time when you were sheltering in your homes, unemployed, facing eviction, and fearing the deaths of your loved ones, while fretting over a possible overthrow of your elected government?

25 days and counting.

Stop pretending this nightmare will abruptly stop with the arbitrary changing of the calendar year.

But it will, won't it?

The Protestant Reformation was—I am told—fought over pardons.

Much like in the Garden of Eden. I'm telling you.

No book worth reading cannot be summarized in a tweet.

If only in capital letters.

The essence of politics is cunning and ambitious people pretending to be stupid.

Pretending?
He was like a man who wanted to change all; and could not; so burned with his impotence; and had only me, an infinitely small microcosm to convert or detest. John Fowles

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Re: a thread for mundane ironists

Postby iambiguous » Sat Dec 26, 2020 10:45 pm

Marlon Brando

If the expenditure of money for entertainment in America is any indication of taste, clearly the majority of us are addicted to trash.


After all, the pinhead Kids aren't only here.

George Bernard Shaw said that thinking was the greatest of all human endeavors, but I would say that feeling was. Allowing yourself to feel things, to feel love or wrath, hatred, rage.

Fuck it, he thought: too close to call.

The most repulsive thing you could ever imagine is the inside of a camel's mouth. That and watching a girl eat octopus or squid.

Fuck it, he thought: too close to call.

I had to read Wuthering Heights for English and I never enjoyed a book in all my life as much as that one.

Does this make sense?

I don't think I was constructed to be monogamous. I don't think it's the nature of any man to be monogamous. Men are propelled by genetically ordained impulses over which they have no control to distribute their seed into as many females as possible.

Yo, Satyr!

The power and influence of a movie star is curious: I didn't ask for it or take it; people gave it to me. Simply because you're a movie star, people empower you with special rights and privileges..

Unlike, for example, being a philosopher.
He was like a man who wanted to change all; and could not; so burned with his impotence; and had only me, an infinitely small microcosm to convert or detest. John Fowles

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Re: a thread for mundane ironists

Postby iambiguous » Sun Dec 27, 2020 7:30 pm

Gus Van Sant

Even if you try to copy a film shot by shot, you still can't. It's still your own film.


On the other hand, why the fuck would anyone want to?

I used to take photographs just to remember people.

I forgot to do that myself. Though I don't regret it.

Modern-day cinema takes the form of a sermon. You don't get to think, you only get to receive information.

Most of which is excruciatingly dull.

For all the boredom the straight life brings, it's not too bad.

Anyone else here never been bored?

Apparently there’s this kind of songbird that thinks it dies every time the sun goes down. In the morning, when it wakes up, it’s totally shocked to still be alive—so it sings this really beautiful song.

Sounds made up to me. Unless you count the thorn bird.

I'm going in a really weird I-don't-know-where direction, but I prefer anything different from how standardized filmmaking has become.

Three come to mind: Elephant, Paranoid Park, Gerry.
He was like a man who wanted to change all; and could not; so burned with his impotence; and had only me, an infinitely small microcosm to convert or detest. John Fowles

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Re: a thread for mundane ironists

Postby iambiguous » Sun Dec 27, 2020 9:04 pm

Existential Comics

And then Jesus was like, "on second thought I'm not going to give anyone bread and fish, because I'm suddenly very concerned about the deficit."


Let alone give them 2,000 dollars!

Every generation needs Socrates because every generation has the wise men of Athens, that is to say, old men in positions of power who tell you with a straight face that they have all the answers and nothing about society should change.

So, don't forget to vote!

The movie "Armageddon" was unrealistic because if a meteor were actually heading towards the Earth the only thing the government would do is bail out corporations affected by the meteor.

Of course that will all change under Biden. :lol: :lol: :lol:

...one thing conservatives and liberals often misunderstand about communism is that it's good and we should do it..

Lots of that here, isn't there?

what the hell is the point of a stimulus check that is less than a month of rent??

Let's run this by Wall Street.

if you gaze too long into the abyss, you will decide to start a podcast

I still don't know what a podcast actually is. Why? Just lucky I guess.
He was like a man who wanted to change all; and could not; so burned with his impotence; and had only me, an infinitely small microcosm to convert or detest. John Fowles

Start here: viewtopic.php?f=1&t=176529
Then here: viewtopic.php?f=15&t=185296
And here: viewtopic.php?f=1&t=194382
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Re: a thread for mundane ironists

Postby iambiguous » Sun Dec 27, 2020 10:38 pm

Claudia Rankine

I don't think people want to look at problems. They want a continuous narrative, an optimistic narrative. A narrative that says there's a present and a future - and what was in the past no longer exists.


My guess: we've got a few of them here.

I am invested in keeping present the forgotten bodies.

Good luck with that, he thought.

So you're just moving along and suddenly you get this moment that breaks your ability to continue, and yet you continue. I wanted those kinds of moments. And initially people would say, "I don't think I have any." Their initial reaction was to render invisible those moments weaved into a kind of everydayness.

Next up: the moments when you don't. Or can't.

Sometimes the art pieces I gravitate toward speak to me in terms of narrative, at other times they speak to me in terms of mood.

And don't think that's not applicable to the posts we react to here.

I think the idea that the systemic problems in a society lead to illness is important to know. We shouldn't be separating out how we live with where we live, and what ails us with the environment we're in.

And how hard can it be to know where you stop here and everyone else begins. If that can even be done, for example.

I love revising things, because you see how you can get the language to get closer to intention. You know there are three ways to say X thing, but one will say it better than the other two. And in saying it better, it gets you closer to something.

And then there's my version of this. :o :shock:
He was like a man who wanted to change all; and could not; so burned with his impotence; and had only me, an infinitely small microcosm to convert or detest. John Fowles

Start here: viewtopic.php?f=1&t=176529
Then here: viewtopic.php?f=15&t=185296
And here: viewtopic.php?f=1&t=194382
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Re: a thread for mundane ironists

Postby iambiguous » Mon Dec 28, 2020 6:03 pm

Francis Picabia

The only way to win is to fight on the side of your adversaries.


If you know what he means. But, come on, what are the odds of that?

Let us never forget that the greatest man is never more than an animal disguised as a god.

For example, "in his head".

Youth doesn't reason, it acts. The old man reasons and would like to make the others act in his place.

Next up: a guy in his mid-forties.

Men have always need of god! A god to defend them against other men.

Them and their own god.

All beliefs are bald ideas.

Some being balder than others.

Only useless things are indispensable.

Actually, I threw all mine away.
He was like a man who wanted to change all; and could not; so burned with his impotence; and had only me, an infinitely small microcosm to convert or detest. John Fowles

Start here: viewtopic.php?f=1&t=176529
Then here: viewtopic.php?f=15&t=185296
And here: viewtopic.php?f=1&t=194382
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iambiguous
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