a thread for mundane ironists

This is the place to shave off that long white beard and stop being philosophical; a forum for members to just talk like normal human beings.

Re: a thread for mundane ironists

Postby iambiguous » Sat Mar 27, 2021 9:28 pm

God

Mass shootings are a small price to pay for the freedom to carry out mass shootings.


Sounds like something He'd say.

Why have laws controlling guns? Killers will just ignore them anyway.
Why have laws against rape? Rapists will just ignore them anyway.
Why have laws against anything? Criminals will just ignore them anyway.


Uh, exactly?

A gun massacre in a public place in America.
Finally, a return to normalcy.


The next one in a town near you!

The Bible is 100% accurate, especially when thrown at close range.

In keeping with the times, six feet seems about right.

Everyone arrives in heaven an undocumented immigrant.

You know, if you get in.

Every time you feel like the world is falling apart, take a deep breath and remember that you're right.

ILP in particular.
He was like a man who wanted to change all; and could not; so burned with his impotence; and had only me, an infinitely small microcosm to convert or detest. John Fowles

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Re: a thread for mundane ironists

Postby iambiguous » Sun Mar 28, 2021 7:53 pm

Emile Durkheim

Social life comes from a double source, the likeness of consciences and the division of social labour.


Things that intellectuals say.

Each victim of suicide gives his act a personal stamp which expresses his temperament, the special conditions in which he is involved, and which, consequently, cannot be explained by the social and general causes of the phenomenon.

Things that intellectuals say.

Religious representations are collective representations which express collective realities.

Gasp! Who would have thought that.

It is science, and not religion, which has taught men that things are complex and difficult to understand.

Okay, but it is [still] religion, and not science, that connects the dots between morality here and now and immortality there and then.

Reality seems valueless by comparison with the dreams of fevered imaginations; reality is therefore abandoned.

Indeed, imagine if that wasn't an option.

Socialism is not a science, a sociology in miniature: it is a cry of pain.

Well, that would explain some things, I suppose.
He was like a man who wanted to change all; and could not; so burned with his impotence; and had only me, an infinitely small microcosm to convert or detest. John Fowles

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Re: a thread for mundane ironists

Postby iambiguous » Mon Mar 29, 2021 1:26 am

tiny nietzsche

I had too much abyss last night


How much is too much? Let's decide.

Dogs placing Schrödinger’s cat gently in a box with Chekhov’s gun.

With the trolly barreling down on them.

not today, abyss

You know, but eventually.

might fuck around and get vaccinated

Accidents will happen.

I need kate bush to murder me

Or, for some: I need kate's bush to murder me

sartre bf camus gf

A little help with this one please.
He was like a man who wanted to change all; and could not; so burned with his impotence; and had only me, an infinitely small microcosm to convert or detest. John Fowles

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Re: a thread for mundane ironists

Postby iambiguous » Mon Mar 29, 2021 5:03 pm

Kiki Smith

If you stick to your work it will take care of you somehow.


Or not of course.

One hopes that each piece contains enough space for several narratives.

Here? One post. One narrative. Period.

I think that objects have memories. I’m always thinking that I’ll go to the museum and see something and have a big memory about some other lifetime.

Something an artist will say.

I told the students at Yale we were going to talk about love - I meant love in the sense of devotions to one's work - and about half the students got really pissed off.

Sounds like bullshit but point taken.

Life is much larger than how we image it, always, but society can be constricting in ways.

In a hell of a lot of ways.

The point of art is that it always has the necessity to expand because people are inherently expanding.

Here the whole point is to shrink everything down. You know to what.
He was like a man who wanted to change all; and could not; so burned with his impotence; and had only me, an infinitely small microcosm to convert or detest. John Fowles

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Re: a thread for mundane ironists

Postby iambiguous » Mon Mar 29, 2021 10:01 pm

tiny nietzsche

the greatest trick the devil ever pulled was to get you to watch the same bad movie twice claiming the "original director's vision" would somehow make up for a tediously plotted script and mediocre acting


You know, if there is a devil.

elisabeth kübler-ross's five stages of grief:
1. not even, bro
2. fuck this
3. what can I get for 63 cents?
4. ugh
5. whatever


Let's examine stage 3 in particular.

if st. patrick sees his shadow, six more weeks of snakes

So, yes or no?

man is condemned to be fucked

And, no, not just up the ass.

oh you like alchemy? what are the first three elements?

So, is this a trick question?

I hope this email finds you in a panic

And, sure, this post.
He was like a man who wanted to change all; and could not; so burned with his impotence; and had only me, an infinitely small microcosm to convert or detest. John Fowles

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Re: a thread for mundane ironists

Postby iambiguous » Tue Mar 30, 2021 5:01 pm

Ernest Cline

Are you cocks arguing about Star Wars again? he said, descending the steps and walking over to join the crowd around us. That shit is so played out, yo.


I know! Let's argue about Star Wars here!! I'll start: It's basically just idotic Hollywood tripe revolving around the Good Guys vs. the Bad Guys.

As terrifying and painful as reality can be, it's also the only place where you can find true happiness.

Or, sure, fake happiness.

Welcome to Crystal Palace, Ray said. That’s the EDA’s code name for this place.
Why? I asked.
He shook his head. Because it’s easier to say than ‘Earth Defense Alliance Strategic Command Post Number Fourteen'.


Yeah, that is true. You know, if you're a "gamer".

The only legitimate use of a computer is to play games.

No, really, milliions no doubt believe this.

This is just great, he grumbled under his breath. Here I thought I was being recruited for an epic space adventure, but it turns out I’m a guest star on Love Boat: The Next Generation.

You'd grumble too, right?

As I watched them embrace, there on the front lawn, my heart was rocked by waves of unbridled joy. It occurred to me that up until this moment I’d only ever experienced the bridled kind.

Next up: bridled and unbridled despair.
He was like a man who wanted to change all; and could not; so burned with his impotence; and had only me, an infinitely small microcosm to convert or detest. John Fowles

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Re: a thread for mundane ironists

Postby iambiguous » Tue Mar 30, 2021 8:40 pm

tiny nietzsche

the hour that you think you lost doesn't exist


I know: the hell it doesn't!

they should make stairs that just go down

Or, for the ubermen among us, just go up.

I asked my dentist for extra teeth

And extra thick gums.

in space, no one can hear you stare

Or, here: no one can hear you glare.

you're not the only person that hates yourself. other people hate you, too

I know: what if that were actually true!

abyss on fire

Let's call it Hell.
He was like a man who wanted to change all; and could not; so burned with his impotence; and had only me, an infinitely small microcosm to convert or detest. John Fowles

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Re: a thread for mundane ironists

Postby iambiguous » Wed Mar 31, 2021 3:41 pm

Pierre-Auguste Renoir

An artist must eat sparingly and give up a normal way of life.


Unfortunately, we no longer have phonetria around to explain why.

The simplest subjects are the immortal ones.

Unfortunately, we no longer have phonetria around to explain why.

A painter who has the feel of breasts and buttocks is saved.

Next up: all the holes.

God, the king of artists, was clumsy.

And that's just on this planet.

The most important element in a picture cannot be defined.

Tell that to the god-awful definitionists here.

I consider that women who are authors, lawyers, and politicians are monsters.

You know, back then.
He was like a man who wanted to change all; and could not; so burned with his impotence; and had only me, an infinitely small microcosm to convert or detest. John Fowles

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Re: a thread for mundane ironists

Postby iambiguous » Wed Mar 31, 2021 5:02 pm

so sad today

i’m basically just a nap waiting to happen


Until one day: i’m basically just a suicide waiting to happen

i’m still afraid of my own feelings: the musical!

What, another one?

the 500,000 stages of grief

Let's try to imagine number 500,000

no i can't just "get out of bed"

Though not for lack of trying.

first day of period, no tampon in, no underwear on, too lazy to get up and rectify the situation, like the punk i fucking am

Well, it is Twitter, right?

the lost art of shutting the fuck up

Here? Foe the lot of them!
He was like a man who wanted to change all; and could not; so burned with his impotence; and had only me, an infinitely small microcosm to convert or detest. John Fowles

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Re: a thread for mundane ironists

Postby iambiguous » Thu Apr 01, 2021 6:12 pm

Cindy Sherman

I am always surprised at all the things people read into my photos, but it also amuse me. That may be because I have nothing specific in mind when I'm working. My intentions are neither feminist nor political. I try to put double or multiple meanings into my photos, which might give rise to a greater variety of interpretations.


You know, like we do here posting.

I feel I'm anonymous in my work. When I look at the pictures, I never see myself; they aren't self-portraits. Sometimes I disappear.

Not only that, but she might actually mean it.

If I knew what the picture was going to be like I wouldn’t make it. It was almost like it was made already – the challenge is more about trying to make what you can’t think of.

Not only that, but she might actually mean it.

Early in my career, a critic said that I needed to "explain" the irony in my work, suggesting that I needed to add text next to the images to help people understand what I was trying to say. At first I was dismayed that I wasn't making work with a clear enough message. That's when I realized that that was the exact opposite of what I wanted to do - that I wasn't responsible for a misinterpretation of my work, that there should be some ambiguity to it. They either got it, or they didn't.

Sounds like something "I" would say.

Being able to make a living doing something one truly loves to do - is my definition of success.

Mine too, he said bitterly.

I don't think I can see the world through other people's eyes, but I can capture an attitude or a look that makes others think I can.

You know, if they're dumb enough to.
He was like a man who wanted to change all; and could not; so burned with his impotence; and had only me, an infinitely small microcosm to convert or detest. John Fowles

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Re: a thread for mundane ironists

Postby iambiguous » Thu Apr 01, 2021 9:38 pm

so sad today

i'm aware of what i'm doing but not enough to stop


I hear that!

feeling anxious about my face...it really gets on my nerves

It is a tricky one: https://www.google.com/search?source=un ... 66&bih=625
Not unlike, say, phonetria's?

one thing i’m into is a peaceful death

You fall asleep. You don't wake up. Ever.

some of you were loved unconditionally by your mothers and it shows

Or: some of you were hated unconditionally by your fathers and it shows

what’s the difference between my two twitters?
on here i spell it “cum”
on @melissabroder
i spell it “come”


Obviously: Why?

one thing i don’t like is the way things are

Makes it all rather simple, right?
He was like a man who wanted to change all; and could not; so burned with his impotence; and had only me, an infinitely small microcosm to convert or detest. John Fowles

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Re: a thread for mundane ironists

Postby iambiguous » Fri Apr 02, 2021 5:42 pm

Marina Abramovic

When you have so much pain, you think you will lose consciousness. If you say to yourself, ‘So what, lose consciousness,’ the pain goes away.


:lol:

Time is an illusion. Time only exists when we think about the past and the future. Time doesn't exist in the present here and now.

:lol:

Happiness comes from the full understanding of your own being.

Right, said the miserable wretch.

Don't even ask me why. I do not know, I have no answer to this insane behaviour.

Trust me: no one does.

We are actually living in a million parallel realities every single minute.

You know, more or less.

If you're a baker, making bread, you're a baker. If you make the best bread in the world, you're not an artist, but if you bake the bread in the gallery, you're an artist. So the context makes the difference.

Next up: making urinals.
He was like a man who wanted to change all; and could not; so burned with his impotence; and had only me, an infinitely small microcosm to convert or detest. John Fowles

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Re: a thread for mundane ironists

Postby iambiguous » Fri Apr 02, 2021 9:45 pm

sad socrates

I’m either too human or not human enough.


Me? I'm either both or neither.

Thinking about time only tells me that I’m either going to be sad or depressed.

But not necessarily in that order.

I didn’t realize wanting to live was a thing.

Let's Google it.

The glass might be half full, but the water is contaminated.

Or it's piss.

Philosophy is not a significant source of depression.

Not counting mine of course.

Help me get to zero followers

You know, like me here.
He was like a man who wanted to change all; and could not; so burned with his impotence; and had only me, an infinitely small microcosm to convert or detest. John Fowles

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Re: a thread for mundane ironists

Postby iambiguous » Sat Apr 03, 2021 7:22 pm

Napoleon Bonaparte

History is a set of lies agreed upon.


Ain't that the truth!!
Mostly


Mankind's worst enemy is fear of work.

Of course what did he know about, among other things, capitalism and the alienation of labor.

You become strong by defying defeat and by turning loss into gain and failure to success.

In theory, let's say?

How many things apparently impossible have nevertheless been performed by resolute men who had no alternative but death.

Anyone here know the exact number?

I am surrounded by priests who repeat incessantly that their kingdom is not of this world, and yet they lay their hands on everything they can get.

Indeed, that's still the same. And then some.

In war, as in prostitution, amateurs are often better than professionals.

Here too. If you get my drift.
He was like a man who wanted to change all; and could not; so burned with his impotence; and had only me, an infinitely small microcosm to convert or detest. John Fowles

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Re: a thread for mundane ironists

Postby iambiguous » Sun Apr 04, 2021 1:18 am

Philosophy Tweets

"There is a tragic flaw in our precious Constitution, and I don't know what can be done to fix it. This is it: Only nut cases want to be president." Kurt Vonnegut


46 of them so far.

“If I should ever die, God forbid, let this be my epitaph:
THE ONLY PROOF HE NEEDED
FOR THE EXISTENCE OF GOD
WAS MUSIC”
Kurt Vonnegut


Me, I'm little more demanding.

“The universe is a big place, perhaps the biggest.” Kurt Vonnegut

Anyone here know for sure?

"Unaccepted, the universe has no meaning; it is senseless fate and chaos, but acceptance is a way of discovering meaning, not of manufacturing it." Alan W. Watts

I know, I know: whatever that means.

“I can bear any pain as long as it has meaning.” Haruki Murakami

No one ever really means it when they say things like this.

"Because, once alone, it is impossible to believe that one could ever have been otherwise." Marilynne Robinson

No, really, I insisted.
He was like a man who wanted to change all; and could not; so burned with his impotence; and had only me, an infinitely small microcosm to convert or detest. John Fowles

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Re: a thread for mundane ironists

Postby iambiguous » Sun Apr 04, 2021 6:48 pm

George Saunders

Strange, isn’t it? To have dedicated one’s life to a certain venture, neglecting other aspects of one’s life, only to have that venture, in the end, amount to nothing at all, the products of one’s labors utterly forgotten?


Philosophers among others.

By honing the sentences you used to describe the world, you changed the inflection of your mind, which changed your perceptions.

Which changed exactly...nothing?

Is this the baby? I said.
Ma turned on me again.
What do you think it is? she said. A midget that can't talk?


She means little person of course.

You were torturing a cat, she says. With a freaking prod.
A prod I built myself in metal shop, he says. But of course you never mention that.


Just a smartass? Or did he really mean it?

In the town where I live, I have frequently observed a phenomenon I have come to think of as Samish-Sex Marriage.

Sort of anyway.

The contours of the coming disaster expanded to include the deaths of all present.

Yo, God!
He was like a man who wanted to change all; and could not; so burned with his impotence; and had only me, an infinitely small microcosm to convert or detest. John Fowles

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Re: a thread for mundane ironists

Postby iambiguous » Sun Apr 04, 2021 10:17 pm

Philosophy Tweets

"There are a thousand thousand reasons to live this life, everyone of them sufficient." Marilynne Robinson


And how scary is that?!!

"People have a hard time letting go of their suffering. Out of a fear of the unknown, they prefer suffering that is familiar." Thich Nhat Hanh

Right, like, given any number actual situations, you can just push the suffering button to off.

"Truth is so obscure in these times, and falsehood so established, that, unless we love the truth, we cannot know it." Blaise Pascal

Imagine him around in our times.

"All men's miseries derive from not being able to sit in a quiet room alone." Blaise Pascal

Define "all"?

"Invention, it must be humbly admitted, does not consist in creating out of void, but out of chaos." Mary Shelley

That explains some things, right? But not most things?

"What is drama but life with the dull bits cut out." Alfred Hitchcock

Imagine then if we cut out all the dull parts here? Whole threads would disappear. And, no, not just the poop thread.
He was like a man who wanted to change all; and could not; so burned with his impotence; and had only me, an infinitely small microcosm to convert or detest. John Fowles

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Re: a thread for mundane ironists

Postby iambiguous » Mon Apr 05, 2021 4:53 pm

Annie Leibovitz

If it makes you cry, it goes in the show.


Besides, the show must go on.

Computer photography won't be photography as we know it. I think photography will always be chemical.

Can anyone here explain this?

I am impressed with what happens when someone stays in the same place and you took the same picture over and over and it would be different, every single frame.

Can anyone here explain this?

The first thing I did with my very first camera was climb Mt. Fuji.

Can you say that?

It's hard to watch something go on and be talking at the same time.

Try it and get back to us.

When you go to take someone's picture, the first thing they say is, what you want me to do?

So? Tell them.
He was like a man who wanted to change all; and could not; so burned with his impotence; and had only me, an infinitely small microcosm to convert or detest. John Fowles

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Re: a thread for mundane ironists

Postby iambiguous » Mon Apr 05, 2021 8:51 pm

Philosophy Tweets

"Do not fear mistakes. There are none." Miles Davis


Well, not counting this one.

"If he tries to find a tone centre, he'll just fuck around. Play flatted fifths. I hate flatted fifths. " Miles Davis

Sure, but who doesn't?

"Living is a constant process of deciding what we are going to do." Jose Ortega y Gasset

Sure, possibly.

"Reality is not always probable, or likely." Jorge Luis Borges

Of course there is always my reality now.

"Let others pride themselves about how many pages they have written; I'd rather boast about the ones I've read." Jorge Luis Borges

I'm actually not sure about this one.

"Time is the substance I am made of. Time is a river which sweeps me along, but I am the river; it is a tiger which destroys me, but I am the tiger; it is a fire which consumes me, but I am the fire." Jorge Luis Borges

Time again. His, mine, yours, ours, theirs.
It could be anything.
He was like a man who wanted to change all; and could not; so burned with his impotence; and had only me, an infinitely small microcosm to convert or detest. John Fowles

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Re: a thread for mundane ironists

Postby iambiguous » Tue Apr 06, 2021 5:19 pm

Holly Black

If I cannot be better than them, I will become so much worse.


There you go!

The easiest lies to tell are the ones you want to be true.

Yo, Mr. Objectivist!

The truth is messy. It's raw and uncomfortable. You can't blame people for preferring lies.

Yo, Mr. Objectivist!

What could I become if I stopped worrying about death, about pain, about anything? If I stopped trying to belong? Instead of being afraid, I could become something to fear.

Nothing that I know.

The three of you have one solution to every problem. Murder. No key fits every lock. Cardan gives us all a stern look, holding up a long-fingered hand with my stolen ruby ring still on one finger. Someone tries to betray the High King, murder. Someone gives you a harsh look, murder. Someone disrespects you, murder. Someone ruins your laundry, murder.

Got a few of them here, I suspect.

Nice things don’t happen in storybooks, Taryn says. Or when they do happen, something bad happens next. Because otherwise the story would be boring, and no one would read it.

You know, like life itself.
He was like a man who wanted to change all; and could not; so burned with his impotence; and had only me, an infinitely small microcosm to convert or detest. John Fowles

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Re: a thread for mundane ironists

Postby iambiguous » Tue Apr 06, 2021 9:27 pm

Philosophy Tweets

"Beware of the man who denounces woman writers; his penis is tiny and he cannot spell." Erica Jong


If the shoe fits, Kid.

"Show me a woman who doesn't feel guilty and I'll show you a man." Erica Jong

Uh, yuk yuk?

"Is it so bad, then, to be misunderstood? Pythagoras was misunderstood, and Socrates, and Jesus, and Luther, and Copernicus, and Galileo, and Newton, and every pure and wise spirit that ever took flesh. To be great is to be misunderstood." Ralph Waldo Emerson

And god knows I'm misunderstood here.

"There is no terror in the bang, only in the anticipation of it." Alfred Hitchcock

Though sometimes in the bangs not anticpated.

"Revenge is sweet and not fattening." Alfred Hitchcock

And not just up on the silver screen.

"Man is the only creature that refuses to be what he is." Albert Camus

And then there are those that demand that you refuse to be the same.
He was like a man who wanted to change all; and could not; so burned with his impotence; and had only me, an infinitely small microcosm to convert or detest. John Fowles

Start here: viewtopic.php?f=1&t=176529
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Re: a thread for mundane ironists

Postby iambiguous » Wed Apr 07, 2021 3:00 pm

Olga Tokarczuk

This is a land of neurotic egotists, each of whom, as soon as he finds himself among others, starts to instruct, criticize, offend, and show off his undoubted superiority.


Nobody like that here, right?

It did take Odysseus twenty years.
That doesn’t matter, the professor replied merrily. In today’s day and age you could do it in two weeks.


What, you might ask.

As long as people don’t find out how awful and abominable man can be to fellow man, their innocence will be left intact.

And then they pop out of the womb.

It’s strange how the night erases all colors, as if it didn’t give a damn about such worldly extravagance.

Strange for some, terrifying for others.

Simply by the eternal laws of coincidence the key to room number nine gets lost most often by distracted travelers.

Tell us your story...

There is only one thing we cannot have—eternal life, and, by God, whence did that concept come into our heads, that idea of being immortal?

By God, indeed.
He was like a man who wanted to change all; and could not; so burned with his impotence; and had only me, an infinitely small microcosm to convert or detest. John Fowles

Start here: viewtopic.php?f=1&t=176529
Then here: viewtopic.php?f=15&t=185296
And here: viewtopic.php?f=1&t=194382
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Re: a thread for mundane ironists

Postby iambiguous » Wed Apr 07, 2021 7:58 pm

Philosophy Tweets

“They say ignorance is bliss...they're wrong ” Franz Kafka


No, as a matter fact, over and over and over again, they are right.

"I'm not upset that you lied to me, I'm upset that from now on I can't believe you." Friedrich Nietzsche

Yep, there is that part.

"When it is a question of money, everybody shares the same religion." Voltaire

Evangelically as it were.

”The individual has always had to struggle to keep from being overwhelmed by the tribe. If you try it, you will be lonely often, and sometimes frightened. But no price is too high to pay for the privilege of owning yourself.” Friedrich Nietzsche

Not counting “me” of course.

”When we are tired, we are attacked by ideas we conquered long ago.” Friedrich Nietzsche

Next up: when we are wide awake.

”You know, one of the tragedies of real life is that there is no background music.” Annie Proulx

Two words: Mixed. Tapes.
He was like a man who wanted to change all; and could not; so burned with his impotence; and had only me, an infinitely small microcosm to convert or detest. John Fowles

Start here: viewtopic.php?f=1&t=176529
Then here: viewtopic.php?f=15&t=185296
And here: viewtopic.php?f=1&t=194382
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Re: a thread for mundane ironists

Postby iambiguous » Thu Apr 08, 2021 5:44 pm

Emile Durkheim

A society whose members are united by the fact that they think in the same way in regard to the sacred world and its relations with the profane world, and by the fact that they translate these common ideas into common practices, is what is called a Church. In all history, we do not find a single religion without a Church.


Or, for the Commies, the Party.

The man whose whole activity is diverted to inner meditation becomes insensible to all his surroundings.

On the other hand, for many, isn't that the point?

The roles of art, morality, religion, political faith, science itself are not to repair organic exhaustion nor to provide sound functioning of the organs. All this supraphysical life is built and expanded not because of the demands of the cosmic environment but because of the demands of the social environment.

Things folks like him say.

Science cannot describe individuals, but only types. If human societies cannot be classified, they must remain inaccessible to scientific description.

But then it comes to someone like me.

Too cheerful a morality is a loose morality; it is appropriate only to decadent peoples and is found only among them.

Yo, Smears!
Right, Satyr?


One does not advance when one walks toward no goal, or - which is the same thing - when his goal is infinity.

My goal, however, is to have no goals.
He was like a man who wanted to change all; and could not; so burned with his impotence; and had only me, an infinitely small microcosm to convert or detest. John Fowles

Start here: viewtopic.php?f=1&t=176529
Then here: viewtopic.php?f=15&t=185296
And here: viewtopic.php?f=1&t=194382
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Re: a thread for mundane ironists

Postby iambiguous » Thu Apr 08, 2021 9:10 pm

Philosophy Tweets

"In individuals, insanity is rare; but in groups, parties, nations and epochs, it is the rule." Friedrich Nietzsche


And certainly the rule among the Kids here.

"Anyway, there's something wrong with everybody and it's up to you to know what you can handle." Annie Proulx

No getting around that, right?

"Chance is as relentless as necessity." Simon Blackburn

Let's calculate the odds of that.

"At any street corner the feeling of absurdity can strike any man in the face." Albert Camus

Or in reading any post here.

“I don't want to be a genius---I have enough problems just trying to be a man.” Albert Camus

Imagine then if he had been a woman.

"Is there no way out of the mind?" Sylvia Plath

She found one of course.
He was like a man who wanted to change all; and could not; so burned with his impotence; and had only me, an infinitely small microcosm to convert or detest. John Fowles

Start here: viewtopic.php?f=1&t=176529
Then here: viewtopic.php?f=15&t=185296
And here: viewtopic.php?f=1&t=194382
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