Absolute Randomness

This is the place to shave off that long white beard and stop being philosophical; a forum for members to just talk like normal human beings.

Re: Absolute Randomness

Postby promethean75 » Thu Jul 23, 2020 2:57 pm

If and when you knuckleheads start even kinda understanding this stuff, I've no doubt that you will relish me with apologies for my having to endure the spectacle of your idiocy for so many years.

But I shan't accept that apology because I cannot blame you or your cogito.

I suffer and endure this for my own atonement then.
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Re: Absolute Randomness

Postby promethean75 » Thu Jul 23, 2020 3:22 pm

on the foundation of the economic base there arise certain political institutions, laws, customs, culture, etc., and ideas, ways of thinking, morality, etc. These constitute the political/ideological "superstructure" of society. This superstructure not only has its origin in the economic base, but its features also ultimately correspond to the character and development of that economic base, i.e. the way people organize society, its relations of production, and its mode of production.


Right there. That's what I said/meant earlier but way better.

You gotta forget about marxism as some kind of 'cause' people stand for. It was made clear form the beginning that the beard was cold and hard and impervious to all that hegelian moral tomfoolery of the day.
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Re: Absolute Randomness

Postby iambiguous » Thu Jul 23, 2020 6:42 pm

I myself wouldn't go so far as to compare Marxism with physics or chemistry or geology; but, socially, politically and economically, it starts in the right place: the means of production.

What do all human communities, both historically and culturally, share in common? Obviously: subsistence. We all need to access to food and water, to clothing and shelter, to defense, to a reasonably stable environment in which to reproduce.

So Marx went down through the ages and noted different renditions of this: nomadic, slash and burn, hunters and gatherers, agriculturalists. Then feudalism, mercantilism, capitalism. From customs and traditions that prevailed in smaller tribal communities, to those societies in which increasing surplus labor provided for the emergence of complex economic classes.

No Gods here, no spiritual or mystical elements, no astrologists or numerologists. Just noting as rationally as one is able how human beings actually go about the business of sustaining a means of production rooted in "political economy".

In other words, those in power politically -- the ruling class, the deep state -- are going to be those who own and operate the economy. On a local or state or national or global level. Look around you. Where is that not the case?

And I will be the first to acknowledge that my own moral and political philosophy -- nihilism -- doesn't make any of this go away.

Unless of course I'm wrong.
He was like a man who wanted to change all; and could not; so burned with his impotence; and had only me, an infinitely small microcosm to convert or detest. John Fowles

Start here: viewtopic.php?f=1&t=176529
Then here: viewtopic.php?f=15&t=185296
And here: viewtopic.php?f=1&t=194382

"Gail, it’s as if someone dared 2020 to get worse, and 2020 replied: 'Just try me.' Right now I’m just sitting on my porch, awaiting a plague of locusts." Bret Stephens
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Re: Absolute Randomness

Postby promethean75 » Sun Jul 26, 2020 6:50 pm

No you're right in the assessment. But even if you do think of this battle between right and left as 'just another conflict of powers', each holding itself to be THE objective right power, it doesn't make the sensibility that putting the power in power that is the power of the most, rather than the power of the much fewer, go away. This is a no brainer here and no philosophy is needed.
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Re: Absolute Randomness

Postby promethean75 » Sun Jul 26, 2020 7:19 pm

So if you're forced into taking sides of one power in a fight between two, and no amount of political nihilism can stop you from having to engage existentially with the world around you, you can't escape this engagement with skeptical quietism.

Really what I'm saying rather cryptically is that in fact the very expression of existential philosophy is a symptom of the things historical materialism has identified already in its analysis of how 'ideology', i.e., belief systems, cultural practices, habits and customs, etc., evolve.

For a genuine HM, the problems existential philosophers were occupied with solving were either philosophical non problems, real but arbitrary trivial problems, or very important problems generated in identifiably economic conditions that if changed, might cease to exist.

So when we generally see a skeptical nihilist make his case, what we're paying attention to is not the existential party slogans of meaninglessness and oblivion and the epistemological groundlessness of ethical claims and all that jive... but rather the sigh of the oppressed iambiguous creature. We find these kinds of expressions are very common among the working classes as a kind of anomie that comes with the territory. It's that territory we're investigating. We want to know why the evolution of history has produced this very stage in the intellectual development of man. Why the existentialist. That is our question.

But since the classes identified by marx still exist, despite lacking the severity by contrast if you compare them to the classes during the industrial revolution, an identifiable conflict of power is happening and has been happening ever since surplus property and labor became available to relatively large societies.

So you gotta pick a side, biggs, and reminding a HM of the pointlessness of everything is a wasted effort. We awready know that.
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Re: Absolute Randomness

Postby phoneutria » Tue Jul 28, 2020 3:29 pm

lol holy shit
the chinese have the most happiness, really?
are you sure it's not north korea?

i mean, between the too, which one is the most likely to send you to a forced labor camp if you answer "i'm not happy" on a poll?
kind of a tough match there
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Re: Absolute Randomness

Postby phoneutria » Tue Jul 28, 2020 4:30 pm

promethean75 wrote:an identifiable conflict of power is happening and has been happening ever since surplus property and labor became available to relatively large societies.


that's a bit modest
don't you think that a conflict of power began a little bit earlier than that?
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Re: Absolute Randomness

Postby iambiguous » Tue Jul 28, 2020 5:28 pm

promethean75 wrote:So if you're forced into taking sides of one power in a fight between two, and no amount of political nihilism can stop you from having to engage existentially with the world around you, you can't escape this engagement with skeptical quietism.

Really what I'm saying rather cryptically is that in fact the very expression of existential philosophy is a symptom of the things historical materialism has identified already in its analysis of how 'ideology', i.e., belief systems, cultural practices, habits and customs, etc., evolve.

For a genuine HM, the problems existential philosophers were occupied with solving were either philosophical non problems, real but arbitrary trivial problems, or very important problems generated in identifiably economic conditions that if changed, might cease to exist.

So when we generally see a skeptical nihilist make his case, what we're paying attention to is not the existential party slogans of meaninglessness and oblivion and the epistemological groundlessness of ethical claims and all that jive... but rather the sigh of the oppressed iambiguous creature. We find these kinds of expressions are very common among the working classes as a kind of anomie that comes with the territory. It's that territory we're investigating. We want to know why the evolution of history has produced this very stage in the intellectual development of man. Why the existentialist. That is our question.

But since the classes identified by marx still exist, despite lacking the severity by contrast if you compare them to the classes during the industrial revolution, an identifiable conflict of power is happening and has been happening ever since surplus property and labor became available to relatively large societies.

So you gotta pick a side, biggs, and reminding a HM of the pointlessness of everything is a wasted effort. We awready know that.


Sure, but you are still relatively young, in good health I suspect, and out in the world as a member of the working class. You are taking a side by...by what exactly? Are you politically active like, say, the folks in Portland and Seattle?

I sure as shit once was. I spent nearly 25 years as a hardcore member of the "class struggle". From the RCP and SWP, to NAM, DSOC and DSA.

Only now I'm an "old man", house ridden for the most part who, given the extreme existential turbulence endured over the years, likes to believe he has earned his "quietism".

Also, what does historical and dialectical materialism really have to offer those on both sides of all the other conflicting goods -- from abortion, gun control and hunting to animal rights, vaccination and homosexuality.

Some here are clearly less "fractured and fragmented" than I am. I have in fact thought myself into becoming "I", the embodiment of dasein, dealing with conflicting goods. And no doubt some are considerably less convinced that the "self" here is derived from dasein than from some ideological agenda like Marxism. They are more attached to objectivism. They really do believe that one can come to embody the "real me" in sync with the "right thing to do".

Hey, more power to them. Whatever works.

For me though this is all profoundly embedded in lives that can vary in enormously different ways. What makes sense to me "here and now" may seem entirely alien to others. And maybe that is a manifestation of the different lives that we have lived, or maybe if I understood Marxism more "correctly" all of my doubts [like the state] would wither away.

It sure would be fascinating though if Marx were still around to comment on all of this. What would stay the same, what might be scrapped?
He was like a man who wanted to change all; and could not; so burned with his impotence; and had only me, an infinitely small microcosm to convert or detest. John Fowles

Start here: viewtopic.php?f=1&t=176529
Then here: viewtopic.php?f=15&t=185296
And here: viewtopic.php?f=1&t=194382

"Gail, it’s as if someone dared 2020 to get worse, and 2020 replied: 'Just try me.' Right now I’m just sitting on my porch, awaiting a plague of locusts." Bret Stephens
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Re: Absolute Randomness

Postby promethean75 » Wed Jul 29, 2020 7:47 pm

phoneutrius, it's only the millennial Chinese generation that feels repressed... and that's because they watch american pop videos.

Biggs, tell me everything you know about ocean city maryland because I'm going in the next week or two for some boogie boarding. I mapped the boardwalk there and liked what I saw. There's like a mile stretch of ocean front shops and shit all the way down. I need to know if they got any philly cheesesteak joints there.
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Re: Absolute Randomness

Postby promethean75 » Wed Jul 29, 2020 9:31 pm

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Re: Absolute Randomness

Postby phoneutria » Wed Jul 29, 2020 11:03 pm

philly cheesecakes are alright
philly cheesesteak sandwiches... now that is where the magic is
gimme that pile of meat smothered in tub cheese
i don't even care about politics anymore


stop watching cable tv man
that shit rots ya brains
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Re: Absolute Randomness

Postby phoneutria » Wed Jul 29, 2020 11:07 pm

promethean75 wrote:phoneutrius, it's only the millennial Chinese generation that feels repressed... and that's because they watch american pop videos.


ah, so you just have to hide the world from your slave laborers so they don't know what's out there, and then they'll always answer "happy" in the polls
somebody give this man a government job
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Re: Absolute Randomness

Postby MagsJ » Wed Jul 29, 2020 11:09 pm

promethean75 wrote:https://vocaroo.com/91cWfTJyvxD

Our emergency services have been diverted to a central point of contact, like yours' are being presumed to soon be, for years.. at first it was annoyingly-inconvenient, but now I think it actually works better, in being more efficient and less misused.
The possibility of anything we can imagine existing is endless and infinite.. - MagsJ

I haven't got the time to spend the time reading something that is telling me nothing, as I will never be able to get back that time, and I may need it for something at some point in time.. Wait, What! - MagsJ

You’re suggestions and I, just simply don’t mix.. like oil on water, or a really bad DJ - MagsJ
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Re: Absolute Randomness

Postby promethean75 » Thu Jul 30, 2020 1:08 am

so you just have to hide the world from your slave laborers so they don't know what's out there


That's exactly right.

This is just like the myth of pandora's box. Once the guy saw how magnificent pandora's box was, he wanted to see it again and again.

Same with the Chinese people being exposed and acclimatized to western culture. It very bad for chinese peopoh. You pay 85 cent and you go now!
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Re: Absolute Randomness

Postby phoneutria » Thu Jul 30, 2020 3:01 pm

the whole 'people in the west wanting to be communists' thing is so absurd
that as much as I try
i can't even talk about it in a serious manner
all that comes to me are jokes
i'm holding back big time here
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Re: Absolute Randomness

Postby iambiguous » Thu Jul 30, 2020 7:45 pm

promethean75 wrote:
Biggs, tell me everything you know about ocean city maryland because I'm going in the next week or two for some boogie boarding. I mapped the boardwalk there and liked what I saw. There's like a mile stretch of ocean front shops and shit all the way down. I need to know if they got any philly cheesesteak joints there.


Went to OC once with my ex-wife and the in-laws.

In other words, sure, from time to time, way back then, I'd put the class struggle on hold and become just like everyone else. One of "the masses".

Which, no doubt, you are about to be in turn. Then straight back to the class struggle.

Right? :wink:
He was like a man who wanted to change all; and could not; so burned with his impotence; and had only me, an infinitely small microcosm to convert or detest. John Fowles

Start here: viewtopic.php?f=1&t=176529
Then here: viewtopic.php?f=15&t=185296
And here: viewtopic.php?f=1&t=194382

"Gail, it’s as if someone dared 2020 to get worse, and 2020 replied: 'Just try me.' Right now I’m just sitting on my porch, awaiting a plague of locusts." Bret Stephens
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Re: Absolute Randomness

Postby iambiguous » Thu Jul 30, 2020 7:55 pm

phoneutria wrote:philly cheesecakes are alright
philly cheesesteak sandwiches... now that is where the magic is
gimme that pile of meat smothered in tub cheese
i don't even care about politics anymore


Non-Philosophical Chit-Chat indeed!

And we all come not "to care about politics anymore" in our own way.

Why? My guess: Yep, dasein.

Then it's back to this:

Pick one:

:violence-smack:
:romance-kisslips:

Me, I'm sticking with this: :wink:
He was like a man who wanted to change all; and could not; so burned with his impotence; and had only me, an infinitely small microcosm to convert or detest. John Fowles

Start here: viewtopic.php?f=1&t=176529
Then here: viewtopic.php?f=15&t=185296
And here: viewtopic.php?f=1&t=194382

"Gail, it’s as if someone dared 2020 to get worse, and 2020 replied: 'Just try me.' Right now I’m just sitting on my porch, awaiting a plague of locusts." Bret Stephens
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Re: Absolute Randomness

Postby MagsJ » Thu Jul 30, 2020 8:29 pm

iambiguous wrote:
phoneutria wrote:philly cheesecakes are alright
philly cheesesteak sandwiches... now that is where the magic is
gimme that pile of meat smothered in tub cheese
i don't even care about politics anymore


Non-Philosophical Chit-Chat indeed!

And we all come not "to care about politics anymore" in our own way.

Why? My guess: Yep, dasein.

Then it's back to this:

Pick one:

:violence-smack:
:romance-kisslips:

Me, I'm sticking with this: :wink:

The possibility of anything we can imagine existing is endless and infinite.. - MagsJ

I haven't got the time to spend the time reading something that is telling me nothing, as I will never be able to get back that time, and I may need it for something at some point in time.. Wait, What! - MagsJ

You’re suggestions and I, just simply don’t mix.. like oil on water, or a really bad DJ - MagsJ
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Re: Absolute Randomness

Postby promethean75 » Fri Jul 31, 2020 12:53 pm

Got some good news and some bad news. The good news is, the gps ankle bracelet is finally off. It took the district attorney's office eleven months to restore my constitutional rights. This is what happens when convicting petty criminals pays better than upholding the constitution.

The bad news is, the public defender, prosecutor and judge get to live. I can tell you now, safely, that I was going to execute all three of them.

Really I still should by principle alone, but the event wouldnt have amounted to anything more than a week long news clip that would eventually be forgotten about. Id'a got my revenge, but the world would have learned nothing from it.
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Re: Absolute Randomness

Postby phoneutria » Fri Jul 31, 2020 3:17 pm

promethean75 wrote:but the event wouldnt have amounted to anything more than a week long news clip that would eventually be forgotten about. Id'a got my revenge, but the world would have learned nothing from it.


that is very sensible reasoning
how'd you come up with that?
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Re: Absolute Randomness

Postby promethean75 » Fri Jul 31, 2020 5:28 pm

I luv this shit. Some restaurant owner on the news pleading for government help to save him from losing everything to his debtors (other capitalists... they feed off each other). Then he goes on to complain about the face masks and social distancing and everything else that's interfering with business. Guy's more interested in selling you an overpriced cheese burger than keeping people out of the intensive care unit. Long as he dont get sick, he's good.

I luv it. The big crunch is comin down on these fuckwads somethin serious. But if they make a vaccine, they'll be able to stop it. We gotta cross our fingers that the little bugger mutates before Jan.
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Re: Absolute Randomness

Postby iambiguous » Fri Jul 31, 2020 8:10 pm

promethean75 wrote:I luv it. The big crunch is comin down on these fuckwads somethin serious. But if they make a vaccine, they'll be able to stop it. We gotta cross our fingers that the little bugger mutates before Jan.


Of course he's only paraphrasing Joker here. If not from Wall Street. 8)
He was like a man who wanted to change all; and could not; so burned with his impotence; and had only me, an infinitely small microcosm to convert or detest. John Fowles

Start here: viewtopic.php?f=1&t=176529
Then here: viewtopic.php?f=15&t=185296
And here: viewtopic.php?f=1&t=194382

"Gail, it’s as if someone dared 2020 to get worse, and 2020 replied: 'Just try me.' Right now I’m just sitting on my porch, awaiting a plague of locusts." Bret Stephens
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Re: Absolute Randomness

Postby promethean75 » Fri Jul 31, 2020 9:09 pm

Lol I just found out the worm I work for grossed over a million dollars last year. That means me and nine other guys made over a million dollars, but grossed less than 30,000.

How does that work? No really like I cant understand how that is even possible. Who let that happen? Is this an accident or something?
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Re: Absolute Randomness

Postby promethean75 » Fri Jul 31, 2020 9:15 pm

.
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Re: Absolute Randomness

Postby promethean75 » Sat Aug 01, 2020 5:16 pm

I dont know why I loath this stupid, stuck-up bitch so much. I do know that curled upper lip has something to do with it. And that smile. It's just like one of those fake ass smiles on the toothpaste commercials.

At any rate, consider this: why aren't these dimwits protesting having to wear clothes or a seat belt?

Say I axed that stupid bitch about the seat belts, and she replied 'that's a reasonable law because it can save my life'. Okay, but the probability of you catching the virus is much higher than the probability of you getting in a wreck.... so by your logic, you should decide to wear the mask. At this point I would be cut off and we'd go to a commercial... probably the one about biden supporting the defunding of law enforcement agencies.

Imma tell you what's going on here. When these conservative dimwits get together, all that happens is a circle jerk of angry conspirators congratulating each other on how rebellious they are.

I swear I should have my own show. And on that show I'd need all of five minutes with each one of these clowns to totally shut em down.

https://youtu.be/SeJB0MH27WQ
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