WendyDarling wrote:Karpel Tunnel wrote:WendyDarling wrote:Though I promise I’ll join you in opening that can eventually.
“You can learn from that experience in a number of ways” via the conscience? I’ve regarded conscience similarly to the way you do rather than as self esteem which seems a shallow or superficial motive when compared to the depth of a consequence brought about by a poor decision, the magnitude of fallout which may be why I am struggling with accepting self esteem as the basis of the conscience.
I can imagine arguing that self-esteem is the root. We want to feel good about ourselves so if we notice that what we did goes against our own morals, then we can't manage to have high self-esteem. I don't think that's the best way to look at the issue. Self-esteem, guilt, shame, and generally conscience all presume having an internal judge weighing in on us as a totality. I think that's a problematic structure. Some little part of us given the power to judge the whole of us 'objectively' and as an object.
Bring on the argument, please.
OK, well I think some people use self-esteem (perhaps without that word) as their conscience. They cheat on their spouse. Feel bad afterwards. Part of why they felt good about themselves before they cheated was that they were a good, honest person. 'Good' including being a good spouse who is faithful. That was part of why they felt good about themselves. It was part of their identity. I'm an honest guy. I don't cheat. I wouldn't do things that would hurt my wife and they walk around 'having good self-esteem.' When they cheat, their conscience starts bugging them (it could also happen that they consider cheating or start flirting with another person and the conscience kicks in.) It's like a warning signal: you ain't gonna be able to feel so good about yourself, warning, warning. Or, now I don't have this go to criterion to feel good about myself, since I cheated.
I can see that argument. I think it's not a great way to manage a self, but I also think is it common, though an oversimplified version of how people end up feeling guilt and shame.