Dasein

The origins of the imperative, "know thyself", are lost in the sands of time, but the age-old examination of human consciousness continues here.

Re: Dasein

Postby Meno_ » Sun Apr 11, 2021 6:45 pm

So true, yet it is probably why Heidegger made that point about the dual definition of das ein & dasein.

I make no excuses in not being able to refer to it without search, it has become a process like that which describes the condition of the mathematician programming inherently incapable of not being fully conscious of deriving the quadratic equation. before applying it.
Meno_
breathless
 
Posts: 9059
Joined: Tue Dec 08, 2015 2:39 am
Location: Mysterium Tremendum

Re: Dasein

Postby Otto » Thu Apr 15, 2021 1:40 am

Bob wrote:
Hegel definiert in seiner Enzyklopädie Dasein als bestimmtes Sein (Qualität), als „die Einheit des Seins und des Nichts, in der die Unmittelbarkeit dieser Bestimmungen und damit in ihrer Beziehung ihr Widerspruch verschwunden ist, – eine Einheit, in der sie nur noch Momente sind“.
G.W.F. Hegel: Enzyklopädie der philosophischen Wissenschaften I, stw, Frankfurt am Main 2003, § 89 Anm., S. 194

Dasein – Wikipedia

Translation:
Hegel defines Dasein in his Encyclopaedia as determinate being (quality), as "the unity of being and nothingness, in which the immediacy of these determinations and thus in their relation their contradiction has disappeared, - a unity in which they are only moments".

Because Dasein is subject to becoming, to arising and passing away, and is to be regarded as something changeable, in Hegel's dialectic logic it is the basic determination of every something. For him, a something set in this way is what it is only through its boundary with respect to others. However, he points out that he does not mean the quantitative, but the qualitative limit.

I think that this is important because it isn’t a particular mode of being, except seen from the outside by others, but a Werdegang (development) in someone’s life. That is, it can seem to be a particular something from the outside, but speaking from the experience of Dasein, it is part of a flowing process.
It shows that clarification is needed when using the word, and that, taking Hegel and Heidegger as examples, it doesn’t mean one thing for all.

Agreed.
___________________________________________

A rather general note on the comparison between "Dasein" and "Sosein":

"Dasein" (from: "da sein" = "to be there") = "being there", "existence", "existentia".
"Sosein" (from: "so sein" = "to be so") = "being so", "essence", "essentia".

There is no Dasein without Sosein and no Sosein without Dasein. All Sosein of something "is" itself also Dasein of something, and all Dasein of something "is" itself also Sosein of something. Only the something is not one and the same here. Example: the Dasein of the tree at a place is itself a Sosein of the forest, because without it the forest would be different; the Dasein of a limb at the tree is a Sosein of the tree; the Dasein of a branch is a Sosein of the limb etc.. The Dasein of the one is always at the same time the Sosein of the other. This series can be extended to both sides and also reversed.
___________________________________________________________________________________

Up to the 18th century, philosophy simply presupposed the „Seiendes“ and the „Sein“ and thus also the „Dasein“, thus never questioned it, never investigated it, never explored it. Kant (1724-1804) was the first philosopher who dealt with it when he founded anthropolgy. Among others, Hamann (1730-1788), Herder (1744-1803), Goethe (1749-1832), Schiller (1759-1805) and with an even sharper investigation Hegel (1770-1831) followed. Then Hölderlin (1770-1843), Schelling (1775-1854), Schopenhauer (1788-1860), Stirner (1806-1856), Kierkegaard (1813-1855), Marx (1818-1883), Engels (1820-1895), Dilthey (1833-1922), Nietzsche (1844-1900), Freud (1856-1939), Husserl (1859-1938), Spengler (1880-1936), Jaspers (1883-1969) and others should also be mentioned in this regard. But it started really intensively with Heidegger (1889-1976).

Selected quotes in my translated form:

„This Seiende, which we ourselves ever are ..., we grasp terminologically as the Dasein.“ - Martin Heidegger, 1927, § 6, p. 25.

„Dasein, i.e. das Sein of (hu)man is ... the living (creature), whose being is essentially determined by the ability to speak.“ - Martin Heidegger, 1927, § 6, p. 25.

In Dasein there is an essential tendency towards closeness.“ - Martin Heidegger, 1927, § 23, p. 105.

„Dasein understands itself first and for the most part from its world, and the co-existence (Mitdasein = Withdasein) of the others is often encountered from what is present in the inner world.“ - Martin Heidegger, 1927, § 26, p. 120.
User avatar
Otto
 
Posts: 122
Joined: Sat Jan 23, 2021 8:53 pm

Re: Dasein

Postby Otto » Mon Apr 19, 2021 7:33 pm

The "Sein" of that "Seiende", which is the "Dasein", is the "Sorge" ("care", "concern", "worry", ...). Heidegger devoted in his book "Sein und Zeit" an entire chapter to "Sorge", entitled "Sorge als Sein des Daseins" (6th chapter, § 39-44, pp. 180-230).

"Dasein" is "Besorgen" ("getting", "providing", "procuring", "buying") in relation to the environment, and "Dasein" is "Fürsorge" ("welfare", "care", "aid") in relation to "Mitmenschen" ("withmen", other, fellow human beings). In the "Sorge" the three structural moments of "Dasein" are brought together: (1.) the "Sich-vorweg-Sein" ("being ahead of oneself"), (2.) the "Geworfenheit" ("thrownness"), (3.) the "Verfallen" ("falling under", "beholding", "addicting"). "Sorge" is something like a "'hearing' of Sein". The call of the "Sorge" is the "Gewissen" (conscience).

So it is the conscience as the call of the "Sorge" that calls man to and back from the lostness to the "Man" ("Man" means "man" in the sense of the "usual, unquestioned doing of the mass", also as it is often used in "one", e.g. "one does this", "one does that", "one reads the newspare as one raeds the newspaper" etc.) into the freedom on the ground of the nothing(ness). It is this call that makes the movement of the actual self becoming possible. The "wanting/will to have conscience" constitutes the actual "Seinkönnen" ("being can", thus: "being able") of the Dasein.
User avatar
Otto
 
Posts: 122
Joined: Sat Jan 23, 2021 8:53 pm

Re: Dasein

Postby Otto » Mon Apr 19, 2021 8:23 pm

In understanding Heidegger's philosophy, I think it is better not to translate the German words, because the English language has no equivalents for them, which is especially true of the many derivatives from a root word that can be used infinitely in German, but not in English. For example: "Sorge", "sorgen", "sorglos", "sorgelos", "sorgevoll", "Sorgen", "sorgen", "sorgend", "besorgt", "Besorgen", "besorgen", "besorgend", "Besorgung", "Fürsorge", "Fürsorgen", "fürsorgen", "fürsorgend", "fürsorglos", "fürsorgevoll", fürsorgelos,, "Umsorge", "Umsorgen", "umsorgen", "umsorgend", "Umsorgung", Versorge", "Versorgen", "versorgen", "versorgend", "Versorgung", "Vorsorge", "vorsorgen", "Vorsorgen", "vorsorgend", "Nachsorge", "Nachsorgen", "nachsorgen", "nachsorgend", "Mitsorge", "Mitsorgen", "mitsorgen", "mitsorgend", "Rundumsorge", "Rundumsorgen",, "rundumsorgen", "rundumsorgend", , "Rundumfürsorge", "Rundumfürsorgen", , "rundumfürsorgen", "rundumfürsorgend", "Überversorgung", "Überversorgen", , "überversorgen", "überversorgt", "Unterversorgung", "Unterversorgen", "unterversorgen", "unterversorgt", "Zwischenversorgung", "Zwischenversorgen", "zwischenversorgen", "zwischenversorgend", "Entsorgung", "Entsorgen", "entsorgen", "entsorgend", "Hinterhersorge", "Hinterhersorgen", "hinterhersorgen", "hinterhersorgend", "Vollumsorge", "Vollumsorgung", "Vollumsorgen", "vollumsorgen", "vollumsorgend" ... etc. etc. etc. ..., in principle derivable to infinity and composable like almost all German words, no matter what kind of word it is.
User avatar
Otto
 
Posts: 122
Joined: Sat Jan 23, 2021 8:53 pm

Re: Dasein

Postby felix dakat » Mon Apr 19, 2021 9:07 pm

Heiddegger spent the entire book "Being and Time" explaining what he meant by dasein because he saw it as the key to fundamental ontology. However he never finished the book because along the way he realized that fundamental ontology is impossible because of the problem of historicity in which understanding of being is always embedded in a historical moment which conceals as much as it reveals.
The purpose of my life would seem to be to express the truth as I discover it, but in such a manner that it is completely devoid of authority. By having no authority, by being seen by all as utterly unreliable, I express the truth and put everyone in a contradictory position where they can only save themselves by making the truth their own.
Soren Kierkegaard– Journals, 432
User avatar
felix dakat
Janitor
 
Posts: 9326
Joined: Tue Dec 05, 2006 7:20 am
Location: east of eden

Re: Dasein

Postby Otto » Tue Apr 20, 2021 12:04 am

felix dakat wrote:Heiddegger spent the entire book "Being and Time" explaining what he meant by dasein because he saw it as the key to fundamental ontology. However he never finished the book because along the way he realized that fundamental ontology is impossible because of the problem of historicity in which understanding of being is always embedded in a historical moment which conceals as much as it reveals.


Heidegger mentioned in his preliminary remarks to the seventh edition in 1953:

Martin Heidegger (translated by me) wrote:The marking "First Half" in the previous editions has been deleted. The second half can no longer be connected after a quarter of a century without the first half being presented anew. However, its path remains a necessary one even today, if the question of being is to move our existence.

For an explanation of this question, I refer to the "Introduction to Metaphysics" published simultaneously with this reprint by the same publisher. It contains the text of a lecture given in the summer semester of 1935.

The "historicity in which understanding of being is always embedded in a historical moment which conceals as much as it reveals" (Felix Dakat) was already taken into account in Heidegger’s "Sein und Zeit" ("Being and Time").

Heidegger's existentials (the ways of existing) are, for example: Sorge, esp. Angst, In-der-Welt-Sein ("being-in-the-world"), Gestimmtheit ("mood", "attunement"), Geworfenheit ("thrownness"), Verstehen ("understanding") and others.

I recommend Heidegger's "Introduction to Metaphysics" as a supplement (the "second half" - as mentioned above) to "Being and Time".
User avatar
Otto
 
Posts: 122
Joined: Sat Jan 23, 2021 8:53 pm

Re: Dasein

Postby Otto » Tue Apr 20, 2021 12:20 am

By the way:

Everything is governed by history. Everything is historical. Everything is subjected to historicity.

It is not possible to explain with a physical method what e.g. physics "is". It is not possible. But it is possible to understand it. But the understanding starts from completely different presuppositions. You can know what physics "is" when you speak and think about it, but not when you start an experiment or trial to show what physics "is". All knowledge, and therefore all science too, is subjected to historicity.

Heidegger knew this, of course. His disciple Hans-Georg Gadamer wrote a book with the title "Wahrheit und Methode" ("Truth and Method"), in which he also points to the problem, which of course was also known to Heidegger.
User avatar
Otto
 
Posts: 122
Joined: Sat Jan 23, 2021 8:53 pm

Re: Dasein

Postby felix dakat » Tue Apr 20, 2021 3:26 pm

The purpose of my life would seem to be to express the truth as I discover it, but in such a manner that it is completely devoid of authority. By having no authority, by being seen by all as utterly unreliable, I express the truth and put everyone in a contradictory position where they can only save themselves by making the truth their own.
Soren Kierkegaard– Journals, 432
User avatar
felix dakat
Janitor
 
Posts: 9326
Joined: Tue Dec 05, 2006 7:20 am
Location: east of eden

Re: Dasein

Postby Otto » Tue Apr 20, 2021 9:02 pm

felix dakat wrote:Heidegger on Heidegger:

https://www.facebook.com/watch/?v=899964107459515

A good film. Thank you.

Heidegger is right:

The question of being and the unfolding of the question of being presuppose precisely an interpretation of dasein.

According to Heidegger, behind the essence of technology hides the relation between being and man. And this relation could one day come to light in its unconcealedness.

Heidegger has never been against technology, but wants to understand the essence of technology. He interprets technology, namely the essence of technology, as a power that challenges man and towards which he is no longer free.

Heidegger knows that in the foreseeable future man (in his organic being) will be made accordimg to need.
User avatar
Otto
 
Posts: 122
Joined: Sat Jan 23, 2021 8:53 pm

Re: Dasein

Postby Otto » Tue Apr 20, 2021 9:37 pm

Heidegger's new thinking, which he says is more difficult in execution than philosophy, demands a new care of language (!). He used the word "Sorgfalt" translated as "care". Also the word "Sorgfalt" contains the word "Sorge" ( https://www.ilovephilosophy.com/viewtop ... 2#p2812777 ).
User avatar
Otto
 
Posts: 122
Joined: Sat Jan 23, 2021 8:53 pm

Re: Dasein

Postby felix dakat » Wed Apr 21, 2021 8:51 pm

felix dakat wrote:Heidegger on Heidegger:

https://www.facebook.com/watch/?v=899964107459515


The misunderstandings voiced by the interviewer are a testimony to the difficulty in understanding Heidegger including his interpretation of Dasein. I find it interesting that he alludes to his turn from inventing new terms to retreating "into the primordial content of our own continuously dying grasp of language."

In Being and Time where Heidegger's inventing of new terms is in full bloom, there is, nonetheless, a refreshing illustration of Dasein as Care in a myth:

‘Once when ‘Care’ was crossing a river, she saw some clay; she thoughtfully took up a piece and began to shape it. While she was meditating on what she had made, Jupiter came by. ‘Care’ asked him to give it spirit, and this he gladly granted. But when she wanted her name to be bestowed upon it, he forbade this, and demanded that it be given his name instead. While ‘Care’ and Jupiter were disputing, Earth arose and desired that her own name be conferred on the creature, since she had furnished it with part of her body. They asked Saturn to be their arbiter, and he made the following decision, which seemed a just one: ‘Since you, Jupiter, have given its spirit, you shall receive that spirit at its death; and since you, Earth, have given its body, you shall receive its body. But since ‘Care’ first shaped this creature, she shall possess it as long as it lives. And because there is now a dispute among you as to its name, let it be called ‘homo’, for it is made out of humus (earth).’

Heidegger, Martin. Being and Time (p. 271). Kindle Edition.
The purpose of my life would seem to be to express the truth as I discover it, but in such a manner that it is completely devoid of authority. By having no authority, by being seen by all as utterly unreliable, I express the truth and put everyone in a contradictory position where they can only save themselves by making the truth their own.
Soren Kierkegaard– Journals, 432
User avatar
felix dakat
Janitor
 
Posts: 9326
Joined: Tue Dec 05, 2006 7:20 am
Location: east of eden

Re: Dasein

Postby Alf » Wed Apr 21, 2021 10:45 pm

„Unterwegs zur Sprache“. Und das ist das ganze Geheimnis Heideggers.“ - Jean Beaufret, Heidegger-Übersetzer.
"On the way to language. And that is the whole secret of Heidegger." - Jean Beaufret, Heidegger translator.
User avatar
Alf
 
Posts: 287
Joined: Thu Mar 09, 2017 12:07 am

Previous

Return to Psychology and Mind



Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users