The Psychology of the Other..

[Aegean]

Indeed.
Now advance from that logical starting point and see how genetic dispositions - evolved over time because of their success - can become memetically transformed - even inverted to contradict their origins and primal utilities.

[Kriswest]

Take a look at this
https://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/memetics
I found that most interesting of your reply. Very true and very applicable to many if not most species of animals. Memes are not just used by humans. Will reply more tomorrow. I have to be awake at 3am

[Aegean]

Yes...memes as extensions of genes.
Genes use DNA, memes use language, semiotics.
As there is a selfish gene, there is a selfish meme.
As there are organisms, there are superorganisms.
Just as genes synthesize and reproduce, so too memes synthesize and reproduce.
Just as there are compatible and incompatible genes; there are compatible and incompatible memes.

[WendyDarling]

I'm not too familiar with memes but memes are a new buzzword. Is a meme as effective or as meme-like when it is accompanied by other images, pictures? All the memes I've seen as of late have been a combo of words and images. And are images actual language?

[Aegean]

I'm not too familiar with memes but memes are a new buzzword. Is a meme as effective or as meme-like when it is accompanied by other images, pictures? All the memes I've seen as of late have been a combo of words and images. And are images actual language?

Yes, symbols and language, which are symbols, are all part of semiotics.
Semiotics are representations of abstractions. They are art, or a form of technology.
An externalization of the esoteric, via a medium.
Vocalizations using patterned sequences uses the medium of atmosphere. A rudimentary form of semiotics many species possess.

[Mowk]

Not I (other) should be mentioned first. That's the game, and that is where it all takes place. You wanna argue the point. It wouldn't exist without not I.

Self?

[felix dakat]

I'm not too familiar with memes but memes are a new buzzword. Is a meme as effective or as meme-like when it is accompanied by other images, pictures? All the memes I've seen as of late have been a combo of words and images. And are images actual language?

Yes, symbols and language, which are symbols, are all part of semiotics.
Semiotics are representations of abstractions. They are art, or a form of technology.
An externalization of the esoteric, via a medium.
Vocalizations using patterned sequences uses the medium of atmosphere. A rudimentary form of semiotics many species possess.

...which is of particular relevance on a forum like this where we know "the other" primarily through words on a virtual page. Yet based on the choices and arrangements of words one reads, the mind conjures a subjectivity at once like and different from one's own.

[Aegean]

Through the understanding of words in either/or absolutes.
Through the use of word as mediators between mind and world, and not between mind and other minds or mind and text, representing other minds.
By circumventing the apparent world around you, d the focus upon text - scripture - or the approach towards world via a proxy - an icon, idol.

[Kriswest]

Yes...memes as extensions of genes.
Genes use DNA, memes use language, semiotics.
As there is a selfish gene, there is a selfish meme.
As there are organisms, there are superorganisms.
Just as genes synthesize and reproduce, so too memes synthesize and reproduce.
Just as there are compatible and incompatible genes; there are compatible and incompatible memes.

Interesting. When the first hominids/apes showed facial expression and sounds to express emotion, others adopted them. Which they taught to the next generation and so on until the memes became genetic. One does not have to teach an infant to laugh or cry nor smile or frown. In lower order of animals the meme to gene transfer would quite likely take far far less generations due to simpler minds.
In future generations it would be interesting to see if new evolve in infants especially as more and more humans are interbreeding with different ethnicities and cultures. What do you think?

[Aegean]

Yes...memes as extensions of genes.
Genes use DNA, memes use language, semiotics.
As there is a selfish gene, there is a selfish meme.
As there are organisms, there are superorganisms.
Just as genes synthesize and reproduce, so too memes synthesize and reproduce.
Just as there are compatible and incompatible genes; there are compatible and incompatible memes.

Interesting. When the first hominids/apes showed facial expression and sounds to express emotion, others adopted them. Which they taught to the next generation and so on until the memes became genetic. One does not have to teach an infant to laugh or cry nor smile or frown. In lower order of animals the meme to gene transfer would quite likely take far far less generations due to simpler minds.
In future generations it would be interesting to see if new evolve in infants especially as more and more humans are interbreeding with different ethnicities and cultures. What do you think?

Yes, facial expressions are a form of information exchange.
A donkey braying, a wolf howling, also forms of memetic exchange of esoteric data - externalization of esoteric, inconspicuous, states.
Vocal language evolved first, then written language. It represents an externalization of memories in the form of a code - sequence, order, via a medium.

Interbreeding dilutes memories. It tends towards a median state. It is not a progress but a regress for the superior of the two.
Hundreds of thousands of cultivated potentials diminished, diluted.
See how man breeds desired traits in dogs. He doesn't rely on chance, on luck,

[Kriswest]

Actually I have to disagree based on experience over the decades of working and living with varieties of species from birds up to cattle.
Not only do mixbreeds tend to have healthier bodies they tend to learn and retain knowledge far better than linebred. Linebred stagnate in learning capabilities and pass weaknesses on not to just one but all or most.
Chickens are the most interesting of this. The original purebreds of my employer and mine live/dshorter lives and were/are dumb and incapable of really learning once into adulthood. Instincts are it. A young has a flexible mind. Examples are lengthy. If you wish I will add a couple.
Now first generation mixes are not significantly different as far as the mind goes but, it is notable as far as health and lifespan. By the third generation of mixing there is a definite change in the birds mental abilities. Mixing a third generation that comes from 4 original breeds to a purebred , the chicks lean towards the mixed abilities more so than the pure line. There is generally a chick that leans toward the pure.
This genetic play works even with higher order animals.
While linebred carries attributes that could be lost, the overall affects of mixbreeding tilts that scale appreciably for the overall benefits.
Look at humanity started. Scientists are proving that a couple or several breeds of Ape/hominid bred with other breeds. And on and on as conquering promoted breeding with the conquered different. Our pack/herd instincts and egos created the present humans by mixing. Only the past 1000 years or so has mixbreeding ceased as pack/herds became significantly large enough so that inbreeding is not an issue. Incest showed early issues with health and became overall frowned upon and forbidden through laws and cultures.
Line breeding like incest is a dead end and is fatal to evolution.

[MagsJ]

As is evident here on ILP.. why are we not looking to the future, instead of being forced to relive the past? which is not of our present making.. is this justifiable?

[promethean75]

Wait a minute, kriswest. Are you saying Aegean is wrong again?

*face palm*

[Aegean]

Inbreeding produces genetic issues, unless you are breeding for specific traits and you do not mind them. Then it is counter-productive.
Females sample sperm, to compensate for environmental shifts. Their promiscuity is motivated by superior genes, within a given environment.
Evolution does not work to preserve traits, but to mix them up so as to allow for any environmental shift.

You are arguing for race mixing.
Nature does not care to preserve intelligence. If stupidity offers an advantage then it is propagated.
Look around you?
Stupidity does, indeed, offer an advantage, in this age.

Nature uses a simple but a tried method. Trial and error. Mixing offers a variety that has a hope of preserving one, or two successes.

Mulatto do not perform higher than Caucasians. As expected they perform higher than Negroes and lower than Caucasians.
Otherwise all the geniuses would be of mixed genes...and none are.
The genetic advantages are not intellectual but in the area of resistance to parasites and diseases.
Nature is about multiplicity, because environments fluctuate, and natural selection is about survival, not about propagating intelligence.

[Aegean]

Breeding dogs for specific traits, requires some degree of in-breeding.
In nature this is done through culling. But environments change making new traits advantageous to the ones that were in previous environments.

More stressful environments promote different traits; less stressful environment let them atrophy and promote other traits.

Humans can produce their own environment, contrary to natural ones. This makes the traits that were fit in nature, be useless or even detrimental to the fitness in the human environment.
Genes Memes

[Kriswest]

Breeding dogs for specific traits, requires some degree of in-breeding.
In nature this is done through culling. But environments change making new traits advantageous to the ones that were in previous environments.

More stressful environments promote different traits; less stressful environment let them atrophy and promote other traits.

Humans can produce their own environment, contrary to natural ones. This makes the traits that were fit in nature, be useless or even detrimental to the fitness in the human environment.
Genes Memes

You separate humans from animals too much. Much of humanness is animalness. We are only separated by sentience and construction ability. If you truly look at human and other animal species without prejudice of sentience, you would see more. Study all without the thought of superior and inferior. Think planet.

[Ierrellus]

If we are One, Other is an illusion.

[Ierrellus]

duplicate

[Kriswest]

If we are One, Other is an illusion.

Or energies

[promethean75]

If we are One, Other is an illusion.

what the hell are you reading these days, man?

if you keep saying profound shit like this you're going to force me to sell all my stuff and join a commune of avant garde artists in vermont.

[iambiguous]

If we are One, Other is an illusion.

what the hell are you reading these days, man?

if you keep saying profound shit like this you're going to force me to sell all my stuff and join a commune of avant garde artists in vermont.

For some, the closer they get to oblivion, the more comforting stuff like that becomes.

And God knows I'd like it to comfort me.

Cue Pascal?

[MagsJ]

If we are One, Other is an illusion.

what the hell are you reading these days, man?

Lol

[Ierrellus]

If we are One, Other is an illusion.

what the hell are you reading these days, man?

if you keep saying profound shit like this you're going to force me to sell all my stuff and join a commune of avant garde artists in vermont.

Dowd's "Thank God For Evolution."

[Aware-ness]

If we are One, Other is an illusion.

what the hell are you reading these days, man?

if you keep saying profound shit like this you're going to force me to sell all my stuff and join a commune of avant garde artists in vermont.

Dowd's "Thank God For Evolution."

Yes. Dowd believes that once we see that we and everything else came from "The Emergence" (Big Bang) circa 14 billion years ago, and evolved from there up to now, so that everything is seen as coming from a common source, it changes our psychology to see that, we're One, and Other is an illusion.

Yes critters, for example, are Other. But they and we and all the It that there is, has the same ancestry. Therefore Other is an illusion. That's the way, in a nutshell, Dowd sees it.

[Tab]

Wow. Just wow.

Can't believe you got 2 pages out of "content to follow."

I've done it all wrong for so many years.

Anyway, hi mags, kris, arc. I feel like a brontosaurus that left jurassic park only to return a million years later and find all the dinosaurs still alive.

Nice to see you all still posting.