"Mental" Illness: The Future of Treatment

The origins of the imperative, "know thyself", are lost in the sands of time, but the age-old examination of human consciousness continues here.

Re: "Mental" Illness: The Future of Treatment

Postby Fixed Cross » Thu Aug 30, 2018 12:45 pm

Pedro I Rengel wrote:I don't think the people at Enron were having a lot of fun. One of the guys killed himself.

Haha.

Do you think Musk is still having fun?
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Re: "Mental" Illness: The Future of Treatment

Postby Fixed Cross » Thu Aug 30, 2018 12:50 pm

Pedro I Rengel wrote:Madoff was having fun early on. But then he made a false move and suddenly he was just struggling fir his family not to lose everything. But it wasn't fun.

So it can't have been very fun from the start, because faliure was an option. He grew faster than he could cope. That's not fun. That's stressful.


Yeah, where is this threshold? Very important, where success turns from a lightness into a weight.

Arnand is probably also referring to things like referees in sports. Is that not a legitimate protection of fun?
But then the fun of sports is very limited.
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Re: "Mental" Illness: The Future of Treatment

Postby Karpel Tunnel » Fri Aug 31, 2018 3:26 pm

Pedro I Rengel wrote:From what I've heard, Enron was a supremely stressful and abusive workplace. Everyone hated it. Was the top guy having fun?
A lot of those guys did much better in the 2008 debacle. Here they lived high for a long time and then got out and got other jobs. I think people tend to confuse mania with fun. Often in falling in love, for that matter. A denial of the driving underlying panic. No wonder a lot of the players were drawn to cocain, the mania chemical.

The 'see' their lives and possessions, they talk positive, they have high energy and their feet are not on the ground. A few flighty steps ahead of the terror.

It's be nice if they faced the consequences of their own idiocy as much other other people must.

That's on the idiots who worked for him or with him. Not on him. He was just doing his thing! But I don't think he was, because it was not a sustainable company and didn't grow and was deatined to fall.
These guys don't have a thing, so they become dopamine junkies, instead of facing their own lack of creativity or......and rush ahead into empty shit.
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Re: "Mental" Illness: The Future of Treatment

Postby Fixed Cross » Fri Aug 31, 2018 9:42 pm

Karpel Tunnel wrote:
Pedro I Rengel wrote:From what I've heard, Enron was a supremely stressful and abusive workplace. Everyone hated it. Was the top guy having fun?
A lot of those guys did much better in the 2008 debacle. Here they lived high for a long time and then got out and got other jobs. I think people tend to confuse mania with fun. Often in falling in love, for that matter. A denial of the driving underlying panic. No wonder a lot of the players were drawn to cocain, the mania chemical.

The 'see' their lives and possessions, they talk positive, they have high energy and their feet are not on the ground. A few flighty steps ahead of the terror.

It's be nice if they faced the consequences of their own idiocy as much other other people must.

That's on the idiots who worked for him or with him. Not on him. He was just doing his thing! But I don't think he was, because it was not a sustainable company and didn't grow and was deatined to fall.
These guys don't have a thing, so they become dopamine junkies, instead of facing their own lack of creativity or......and rush ahead into empty shit.

The strong act as they may, the weak accept what they must.
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Re: "Mental" Illness: The Future of Treatment

Postby Ierrellus » Sun Feb 21, 2021 3:18 pm

The pandemic has issued in an era of teleconferences. We no longer have to see our psychiatrists or counselors face to face. Is this the beginnings of robot psychiatry? Is the same therapy available via voice without a face? We are charged as if it is.
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Re: "Mental" Illness: The Future of Treatment

Postby WendyDarling » Sun Feb 21, 2021 3:33 pm

Ierrellus wrote:The pandemic has issued in an era of teleconferences. We no longer have to see our psychiatrists or counselors face to face. Is this the beginnings of robot psychiatry? Is the same therapy available via voice without a face? We are charged as if it is.


I’m about to follow with a sarcastic joke that I don’t find funny.

Robot psychiatry, yes, talk to your Alexa or Siri (the left’s idea of progress) without an additional bill. You can rename your Alexa to Doctor in keeping with the spirit of your future, but I will have to bill you for this introductory advice.

In truth, I am angry with such progress.
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Re: "Mental" Illness: The Future of Treatment

Postby pinkladydragon » Mon Feb 22, 2021 7:02 pm

With respect to the OP, how about this: psychiatrist/psychologist/neurologist etc., heal thyself.

There are many celebrity, and no doubt non-celebrity, mental health specialists who themselves have, often severe, mental health problems. I'm thinking here of the likes of Oliver Sacks. Oliver Sacks could not recognise faces, for example, and at parties, even his own family had to wear nametags for identification. Oliver Sacks was unable to cure himself.

A few years ago, I attended an out-patient clinic. I was seeing a medical doctor, not a mental health specialist. When I entered the room, the consultant was sitting at his desk staring at the screen of a computer whilst occasionally typing. I was invited to sit down by the nurse, not by the consultant, who still did not look at me. When the consultation began, he observed no social courtesies such as introducing himself. Instead, glancing at me briefly, he launched into the consultation and started asking me questions. Since he was reading these questions off a screen and then typing in the answers, he did not look at me. This consultant was displaying typical signs of autism.

Autism is another condition which mental health specialists are unable to cure. For example, psychologists have claimed that around 95% of the population is autistic. I believe that the percentage has increased since I last heard.

As far as I am aware, there is no mental illness, or at least very few mental illnesses, that the medical profession can cure. They may be able to alleviate symptoms, but that is a far cry from a cure. ( In fact, alleviating the symptoms without understanding their cause is likely to make the patient worse, not better.)


Therefore, as to the future of mental health treatment, since physicians are unable to heal themselves, there IS no future.
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Re: "Mental" Illness: The Future of Treatment

Postby Meno_ » Mon Feb 22, 2021 7:38 pm

I kinda miss turtle. She was kinda refreshing tediously about what her counselor said about this and that.
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Re: "Mental" Illness: The Future of Treatment

Postby Ierrellus » Tue Feb 23, 2021 3:35 pm

My psychiatrist types at a computer while asking me questions.
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Re: "Mental" Illness: The Future of Treatment

Postby pinkladydragon » Tue Feb 23, 2021 5:23 pm

Ierrellus wrote:My psychiatrist types at a computer while asking me questions.


Since psychiatry treats the mind like a machine, then that hardly surprises me. But it is appalling practice, not to look at a patient. One cannot communicate effectively if one cannot see the other person's face.

On the radio this morning (BBC R4), I heard an interview with a psychologist. This clinical psychologist was notable for introducing CBT with patients who are psychotic. It really beggars belief, but the psychologist, a 64 year old man, said that it is only recently that clinical psychologists have started asking patients questions about their lives. So, when he started asking psychotics about their past, he found out that they typically had undergone experiences that were exceptionally stressful e.g. sexual abuse. (Extreme stress can bring on psychosis.)

However, the point I really want to make is that psychiatry treats the mind like a machine and diagnoses drugs, whereas psychologists treat the person. This state of affairs can only exist, of course, because science does not understand the human mind. In fact, science does not know what a human being is, let alone a mind. Neither, of course, does philosophy. Under those circumstances, how can mental illness treatments be said to have a future?
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Re: "Mental" Illness: The Future of Treatment

Postby Meno_ » Wed Feb 24, 2021 3:26 am

Good point. But the machine and the mind are progressively assimilating, and hence at a critical point , and I think that is being reached., the differences will be of not much consequance
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Re: "Mental" Illness: The Future of Treatment

Postby Ierrellus » Thu Feb 25, 2021 1:34 pm

My psychiatrist, to his credit, did look up from his keyboard occasionally to see me back when we had face to face meetings. He once remarked that from his cubicle he saw me walking across the parking lot to get to our conference. That's probably as personal as he is allowed to be.
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Re: "Mental" Illness: The Future of Treatment

Postby Meno_ » Fri Feb 26, 2021 3:59 am

Ierrellus wrote:My psychiatrist, to his credit, did look up from his keyboard occasionally to see me back when we had face to face meetings. He once remarked that from his cubicle he saw me walking across the parking lot to get to our conference. That's probably as personal as he is allowed to be.




Perhaps he has to have heads up from AI...


Just say'n
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Re: "Mental" Illness: The Future of Treatment

Postby Ierrellus » Fri Feb 26, 2021 2:12 pm

Meno_ wrote:
Ierrellus wrote:My psychiatrist, to his credit, did look up from his keyboard occasionally to see me back when we had face to face meetings. He once remarked that from his cubicle he saw me walking across the parking lot to get to our conference. That's probably as personal as he is allowed to be.




Perhaps he has to have heads up from AI...


Just say'n

I still think there is a real human being beneath his robotic stance.
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Re: "Mental" Illness: The Future of Treatment

Postby Berkley Babes » Sat Feb 27, 2021 12:57 am

Ierrellus wrote:My psychiatrist types at a computer while asking me questions.


Mine too, until I mentioned it. Now she stares at me. I wish she'd look at the computer again.
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Re: "Mental" Illness: The Future of Treatment

Postby Ierrellus » Sat Feb 27, 2021 1:40 pm

The question-- can one be both personal and objective at the same time?
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Re: "Mental" Illness: The Future of Treatment

Postby Meno_ » Sat Feb 27, 2021 5:39 pm

The answer is. a most definitely affirmed Yes, but t the cost. well. the cost depletes all that one possesses and some.it costs all fofefathers'treasude troves plus it indents all of future progeny. It enslaves clans, and it looks forward to a death which never, ever knowingly happens.
It condemns to solitude, it perfumes the sweet tears of babes, then it drives away the great doubt, and seeks the look of angels through crystals of unimaginable technique. It remains a child whom can pray to, so that all sins be forgiven
The list is endless and covets all languages but together reduces to his earliest whimpers and the big dig lays by his side to protect, and snarls waY the boogie man, who thorns around to leave once he really sees what the hell is going on.


The slumber is awkened, and the word began again
Then the room, the enormous room is somehow transfixed and the vast blueness and the evergreen of red dotted berries through an orange goldenwhite wash carries the strain of lyric scents of earliest memory.
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Re: "Mental" Illness: The Future of Treatment

Postby Meno_ » Sun Feb 28, 2021 3:05 am

Ierrellus wrote:The question-- can one be both personal and objective at the same time?



Not easily done, not a sleight of hand trick, but for me, I can affirm it, and only using the cut off method, of partially differentiating various series of ideoscenes, with or without definite characters, can it be conjured up.

The cut off method is kind of like compartmentilization where some ideogram or signal remains, without anything but the most minimal of associative links to other compartments.

The closest to this is the Beckett idea in 'How it is'





https://youtu.be/W4B_25sPhdk
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Re: "Mental" Illness: The Future of Treatment

Postby Jakob » Sun Feb 28, 2021 8:46 pm

Ierrellus wrote:The question-- can one be both personal and objective at the same time?

One can be objective in ones analysis (if by objective you mean scientific, rather than absolutely accurate and comprehensive) and personal in how one relays the message.
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Re: "Mental" Illness: The Future of Treatment

Postby Jakob » Sun Feb 28, 2021 8:49 pm

pinkladydragon wrote:With respect to the OP, how about this: psychiatrist/psychologist/neurologist etc., heal thyself.

There are many celebrity, and no doubt non-celebrity, mental health specialists who themselves have, often severe, mental health problems. I'm thinking here of the likes of Oliver Sacks. Oliver Sacks could not recognise faces, for example, and at parties, even his own family had to wear nametags for identification. Oliver Sacks was unable to cure himself.

A few years ago, I attended an out-patient clinic. I was seeing a medical doctor, not a mental health specialist. When I entered the room, the consultant was sitting at his desk staring at the screen of a computer whilst occasionally typing. I was invited to sit down by the nurse, not by the consultant, who still did not look at me. When the consultation began, he observed no social courtesies such as introducing himself. Instead, glancing at me briefly, he launched into the consultation and started asking me questions. Since he was reading these questions off a screen and then typing in the answers, he did not look at me. This consultant was displaying typical signs of autism.

Autism is another condition which mental health specialists are unable to cure. For example, psychologists have claimed that around 95% of the population is autistic. I believe that the percentage has increased since I last heard.

As far as I am aware, there is no mental illness, or at least very few mental illnesses, that the medical profession can cure. They may be able to alleviate symptoms, but that is a far cry from a cure. ( In fact, alleviating the symptoms without understanding their cause is likely to make the patient worse, not better.)


Therefore, as to the future of mental health treatment, since physicians are unable to heal themselves, there IS no future.


Observing my fellow man in the past year, in his bizarre behaviors, I have come closer to the theory that mental illness is a symptom of things that are wrong with society.

Systemic cruelty leads the members of that system to become what is called mentally ill.

This, I figure, is why the kindest and most compassionate humans are usually the first to slip into psychosis.

The consultant you describe would be trapped in such a cruel system and pass on this cruelty onto those that come to him for help.
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Re: "Mental" Illness: The Future of Treatment

Postby Ecmandu » Sun Feb 28, 2021 9:14 pm

You can tell a therapist:

“We live in a negative zero sum existence, meaning, that for every success and because of that success you are ruining at least one other life if not billions of lives”

“To understand that while you’re having the best time of your life is intentionally shattering other peoples hearts to give your meager soul a sense of power is sadism, sadism is psychopathy defined; you are a psychopath and I’m not: and you’re trying to fix me, it’s absurd”

You know what happens after this? They agree with you, but they don’t change. Suddenly, my therapist is my client, and I hate power differentials. I didn’t come here to fix you, I just need loving kindness in my life.
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Re: "Mental" Illness: The Future of Treatment

Postby promethean75 » Sat Mar 06, 2021 2:00 am

"Suddenly, my therapist is my client, and I hate power differentials."

omg I know man. When you're like way smarter than your therapist. awkward! Bro I had at least two shrinks quit on my old man when he had me in therapy in middle school. They were like 'mr. prom's dad, i can't help this kid, I'm sorry.'
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Re: "Mental" Illness: The Future of Treatment

Postby Bob » Mon Apr 05, 2021 7:49 am

Ierrellus wrote:The pandemic has issued in an era of teleconferences. We no longer have to see our psychiatrists or counselors face to face. Is this the beginnings of robot psychiatry? Is the same therapy available via voice without a face? We are charged as if it is.

I think that psychiatry and psychology needs people to be present to help them most. My time in the day clinic was boring to begin with, but I felt that it was a good idea to be there. After a while I felt I could leave, although I returned later for a short time, which also helped. It may be because my symptoms were somatic rather than emotional.

I think that there is a big difference in how people experience treatment according to the country you're in. What I hear from the USA makes me glad that I was in Europe when I became ill. I found that people were very considerate here, and they offered a number of helpful methods to combat my problems. It was up to me to decide what was better. Sometimes, probably because COVID hasn't helped my condition, I wish I could return to the clinic, but presently it is either full time or not. I'm not too keen on a full-time psychiatric ward. The day ward is a different thing.
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