Observing JSS' thoughts on Psychology - RM:AO

The origins of the imperative, "know thyself", are lost in the sands of time, but the age-old examination of human consciousness continues here.

Re: Observing JSS' thoughts on Psychology - RM:AO

Postby obsrvr524 » Wed Jun 16, 2021 5:10 pm

-
This is starting to get fascinating because -

With the formation of thoughts or ideas as molecules with a degree of valance (mild charge) structures would naturally form as happens in the physical world. Collections of associated (valance influenced) thoughts come together to form things like maths and language.

So clearly it isn't just a matter of the logic involved in maths or sentence structure but also the PHT charge associated with thoughts. Certain math equations gain impressiveness and influence both within an individual mind as well as society ("2+2=4", "\(\pi r^2\)", "F = ma", "\(E=mc^2\) and others) not because of their logical truth but because of their reputation - which often translates to the reputation of a scientist or mathematician (a thought-to-human valance).

Try saying "black-killer" in the MSM. Then say "white-killer" and see the difference in response. Certain words and thoughts carry "charge" (positive or negative influence) and so get associated with other thoughts to create entire beliefs - larger scale attitudes - and my "bubbles of belief". :D

So the truth or logic involved in basic ideas has to compete with the PHT charge values while larger scale personal beliefs, ideologies, and social belief systems are formed and get played out.

I think it is fascinating that he went from necessary microscopic PHT elements (I dubbed as "attons" of attitude) logically all the way up to the formation of language, maths, and bubbles of beliefs.

And all of this happens both within an individual mind as well as within social development and politics. And gives rational decision making for political speeches and religious sermons. A computer could give more effective political and religious speeches than humans - zookers.


This really is a science - complete with rational testable structure based on necessarily true axioms. And that makes mental and social things very exactly calculable (assuming the valance issues could be measured accurately).

It really is what he said it is - a serious "Physics of Psychology" (and society and politics). It should be able to be used significantly in mental health issues - not to mention social/political health issues.
Member of The Coalition of Truth - member #1

              You have been observed.
    Though often tempted to encourage a dog to distinguish color I refuse to argue with him about it
    It's just same Satanism as always -
    • separate the bottom from the top,
    • the left from the right,
    • the light from the dark, and
    • blame each for the sins of the other
    • - until they beg you to take charge.
    • -- but "you" have been observed --
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Re: Observing JSS' thoughts on Psychology - RM:AO

Postby obsrvr524 » Thu Jun 17, 2021 2:40 am

Now this has led me to some very disturbing thoughts.

At first I was contemplating how it all could be applied to social and political activities and conflicts. Then what society would possibly be like if this was taught in all the major universities. I had to leave that one as very largely unknown but I suspect it would be much like Galileo's postulations back in Catholic society. But then I started thinking - James apparently knew not only this but even more -

What must it be like - or was like for James - to look at a person and not merely see a person as we do - but more as depicted in that American movie The Matrix when Neo became enlightened and saw everyone as a group of streaming codes - seeing the very elements causing their behavior to be what it is - beyond what they could see themselves - and perhaps being able to speak just the right words to alter a bit of their programming to result in a very precise, predictable, and chosen change in their spirit - perhaps even being able to see their very soul - standing right in front of you as you watch them playing out all of the internal mechanisms that compose who they are in real time.

And even though that seems like a superpower - there is something more relevant.

James made mention of what it must be like to teleport back in time to ancient Rome and try to have a discussion about physics - pointless - no reason for anyone to believe a word you said. Even the idea of science and experimentation would be completely foreign to them. And imagine that you had to live for the rest of your life in that environment. Neo had the advantage of being able to pop back and forth between being completely one way or completely the other. But what if you didn't have that luxury?

How much more lonely could you feel than to know not only so many things that conflict with current popular belief but also know that all of the struggles going on at that time will soon be irrelevant - and those that newly arise - equally as irrelevant because of what comes after that - centuries of suffering and pointless struggles due to so many false hopes and fantasies only to eventually get up to what you already knew was going to become the future - and you didn't just guess - you absolutely knew - because you had been there - yet no one would have any reason to believe a word you said. Yet there you are for the rest of your life - endless days of not being able to converse with any significant impact.

And if you also knew precisely why everything was the way it was and what it would take to make any difference - perhaps you would know that there is nothing you even want to change in any significant way - because the codes just have to play out - perhaps.

But even without going back in time - if you could see the inevitable sequence of events currently in process and knowing them to be fact - even where they were going to eventually lead (which he mentioned) - isn't that the same situation?

I have gone from being fascinated by the things James said - to wondering what he knew and when - to who he was really talking to - now to a deep feeling of sympathy - almost tears as I imagine what he must have felt every day. What does a person like that do with themselves?

Having merely tasted what seems a red-pill - I question whether I should continue down this red-pill rabbit hole or back away and just enjoy the blue blindness of popular life (as tragic as it seems to be getting).

I can already feel myself seeing people differently - the inevitability of their behavior and the influence maintaining it that way. I find myself less willing to just blindly step into a conversation - even with friends - a twinge of hesitancy to lend comment or argue - or even to agree. Where will it lead? What actually comes from deeply "Observing JSS's thoughts on Psychology"? :-k


Perhaps another unrequited question for James.

.
Member of The Coalition of Truth - member #1

              You have been observed.
    Though often tempted to encourage a dog to distinguish color I refuse to argue with him about it
    It's just same Satanism as always -
    • separate the bottom from the top,
    • the left from the right,
    • the light from the dark, and
    • blame each for the sins of the other
    • - until they beg you to take charge.
    • -- but "you" have been observed --
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Re: Observing JSS' thoughts on Psychology - RM:AO

Postby promethean75 » Thu Jun 17, 2021 12:37 pm

"almost tears as I imagine what he must have felt every day."

Bro I know exactly what u mean. I cry almost every time i come to ILP.
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Re: Observing JSS' thoughts on Psychology - RM:AO

Postby obsrvr524 » Thu Jun 17, 2021 9:19 pm

After some more thoughts concerning just this much I tried to just continue with the next segment of James' Physics of Psychology thread but thoughts about the possibilities of what has been said so far kept coming and coming. The applications of just this much seems endless - and very very relevant. Now I can't even remember all of the thoughts that have crossed my mind.

Just in the field of public policies - perhaps concerning drug use - precise calculations of benefit could be made to predict the outcome of one policy over another. And with accurate statistical data (hard to obtain for reasons also associated to this subject) they probably wouldn't even need a computer to do it - despite having hardcore equations involved. But the issue would still be - as always - the "benefit to whom" question. I already know that James addressed that in his governing methods analysis - finalized with his CRH proposal with MIJOT being the mandated priority. And trying to compute policies in that environment could probably be done without computer as well - as long as the leaders in the small - extremely small - groups were reasonably competent.

Even on this board it is easy for everyone to see behaviors that lead them to speculate the character of the people they are reading but most of their speculations are very charge related - biased, speculative, and presumptuous. Most people today make very poor observers for that reason (yet don't realize how bad they are - how many clues they miss because of the over charged concern for other clues). But with an elementary understanding of just this much physics of psychology - I can't image their observation skills not improving. They (we) would be inclined to realize our own charged attitudes while we were trying to assess those of others (more so than currently being displayed). It would be like a self-realized psychologist more carefully and skeptically analyzing other people.

And then when public policies are accurately calculated - international policies would instantly become far easier to precisely calculate. And again with public understanding of how these calculations are being made (much like in science) the public would be far less suspicious of maleficence. The entire world would become trustable and that means much happier people and far less impulse to violence (socialists would hate it).

It is sad to think that the state of the world could be so dramatically improved merely by public education on what has been discussed so far. Perhaps the globalists are leaving far too much calculation up to Google and Microsoft.

James - in his governing methods analysis - predicted that "even if a global socialist government got established - it would soon fall apart". He was obviously using this kind of analysis to discern that (which is answering one of my early questions about - "how did James know what he knew" - it is appearing that he merely calculated it based on his RM:AO - what would have to happen because of the basic way everything works.

But he had more to say -
Member of The Coalition of Truth - member #1

              You have been observed.
    Though often tempted to encourage a dog to distinguish color I refuse to argue with him about it
    It's just same Satanism as always -
    • separate the bottom from the top,
    • the left from the right,
    • the light from the dark, and
    • blame each for the sins of the other
    • - until they beg you to take charge.
    • -- but "you" have been observed --
obsrvr524
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Re: Observing JSS' thoughts on Psychology - RM:AO

Postby obsrvr524 » Fri Jun 18, 2021 12:28 am

Mithus wrote:---why don't negative and positive influences mix and neutralize each other? --- or, in association to psychology, why don't negative and positive influences mix and neutralize each other?
James S Saint wrote:--- That is an issue of extreme impedance mismatching. The term "asymmetrical" was referring merely to the physical shape of the particle. In a uniform space, a particle will maintain a spherical form. But within a gradient, it becomes less spherical and when in the situation of being a small charge getting very close to a large mass with the opposite charge (an electron approaching a nucleus), the small particle becomes relatively flattened---

This behavior is due to the gradient between the two objects becoming too steep, forming an impenetrable wall between them. Such is what causes the tiny negative electrons to merely float around and orbit much larger positive nuclei of atoms to which they are otherwise drawn strongly toward. Analogous things happen concerning psychology and sociology.

He then goes into a review of the physics pertaining to why it is that electrons don't crash into the nucleus that they orbit - an "exclusion barrier " due to the "impedance mismatching".

James S Saint wrote:Now Back to Psychology
Psycho-Impedance Exclusion Barrier
Sociologically speaking, that same impenetrable wall is formed by the prospect that Israel become Catholic. The two entities are actually drawn toward each other, yet they can never converge. The change would be too great for the high priests to mentally handle. All progress would halt as they argued among themselves as to which is to be more sacred than what. Yet they would hang around each other and feed off of each other's opposing behaviors - the negative not being able to fall into the positive. The same is true for many conceptually defined groups that maintain a sacred order and priority.

The social groups cannot converge because of the totally unacceptable mental and emotional changes required of the persons involved. It is not merely an issue of "those are the bad guys and we are the good guys". It is far more an issue of which idea is believed to be of higher priority, true, or serves a greater purpose. How easy would it be for you to accept that 2+2 is really 5 .. and truly accept the belief? Could you merely accept the irrationality? Most people certainly could not and thus would not. So if any proposed theory ends up requiring that one believe that 2+2=5, the theory will not be accepted by anyone who accepts logical mathematics. The theory might seem plausible and be strongly associated with logical mathematics, but despite such close association, logical mathematics and the theory could never converge. There are many mind puzzles proposed throughout the history of philosophy that demonstrate how two perceived truths can not converge. They are called "paradoxes" - both A and B seem to be true, yet if A is true, B cannot be true and vsvrsa.

That bit seems to be about how contrary devotions or priorities (stemming from PHT attitudes) can develop an impenetrable wall of impedance mismatch between them - analogous to the physics principles.

James S Saint wrote:Psycho-mass
If contrary theories had an equal amount of application (aka equal "mass" - instances of usefulness), a person is likely to dismiss both into a neutrality of favor and indifference of belief - "annihilation" of acceptance. And if the two theories were equally opposite in perceived hope and threat, no passion toward either direction would be generated - neutral PHT. But given that mathematics requires 2+2=4 in millions of applications and it is merely a newly postulated theory demands that 2+2=5, annihilation into non-belief of both will not occur. The new theory will be rejected, kept separate and isolated (hovering around mathematics, yet never converging with it). Why? Because the field of mathematics is far more spread out into millions of applications and not so easily dismissed.

Socio-Impedance Exclusion Barrier
And socially, given Catholicism is spread so much more widely than Judaism, the two could never annihilate each other even if they had otherwise equally opposing potential .

Zookers - I feel like I am getting an overload of realizations and revelations pertaining to the history of social conflicts, conquerings, mergers, and dissolutions - allowing for a precise calculation of at what point any of those events could and would occur. And since those things are currently still happening - applicable to current international events (James would have already known all of this).

This is going to take a lot of digesting. It involves the entire history of mankind and current events - as well as the formation of political news items.
Member of The Coalition of Truth - member #1

              You have been observed.
    Though often tempted to encourage a dog to distinguish color I refuse to argue with him about it
    It's just same Satanism as always -
    • separate the bottom from the top,
    • the left from the right,
    • the light from the dark, and
    • blame each for the sins of the other
    • - until they beg you to take charge.
    • -- but "you" have been observed --
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Re: Observing JSS' thoughts on Psychology - RM:AO

Postby MagsJ » Fri Jun 18, 2021 10:23 am

_
You could just read them here..

F23F0768-870D-40C5-B507-8F724AC0C136.jpeg
F23F0768-870D-40C5-B507-8F724AC0C136.jpeg (84.61 KiB) Viewed 313 times
The possibility of anything we can imagine existing is endless and infinite.. - MagsJ
I haven't got the time to spend the time reading something that is telling me nothing, as I will never be able to get back that time, and I may need it for something at some point in time.. Huh! - MagsJ
You’re suggestions and I, just simply don’t mix.. like oil on water, or a really bad DJ - MagsJ
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Re: Observing JSS' thoughts on Psychology - RM:AO

Postby obsrvr524 » Fri Jun 18, 2021 10:45 am

It's hard to search, copy, and paste from a book. O:)
Member of The Coalition of Truth - member #1

              You have been observed.
    Though often tempted to encourage a dog to distinguish color I refuse to argue with him about it
    It's just same Satanism as always -
    • separate the bottom from the top,
    • the left from the right,
    • the light from the dark, and
    • blame each for the sins of the other
    • - until they beg you to take charge.
    • -- but "you" have been observed --
obsrvr524
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Re: Observing JSS' thoughts on Psychology - RM:AO

Postby MagsJ » Fri Jun 18, 2021 11:32 am

obsrvr524 wrote:It's hard to search, copy, and paste from a book. O:)

https://books.google.com/books/about/Ra ... yeDwAAQBAJ - go to.. Table of Contents link, on the left.

..you’re welcome ; )
The possibility of anything we can imagine existing is endless and infinite.. - MagsJ
I haven't got the time to spend the time reading something that is telling me nothing, as I will never be able to get back that time, and I may need it for something at some point in time.. Huh! - MagsJ
You’re suggestions and I, just simply don’t mix.. like oil on water, or a really bad DJ - MagsJ
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Re: Observing JSS' thoughts on Psychology - RM:AO

Postby obsrvr524 » Fri Jun 18, 2021 10:37 pm

MagsJ wrote:
obsrvr524 wrote:It's hard to search, copy, and paste from a book. O:)

https://books.google.com/books/about/Ra ... yeDwAAQBAJ - go to.. Table of Contents link, on the left.

..you’re welcome ; )

I didn't find the "Search" button that allows me to search for word use.

My effort isn't to just read what James said about things but to deeply scrutinize it for credibility. I have to look for any contradictory claims - for intended word use - for intention for the entire effort. Try just reading a book on quantum physics and see how comfortable you feel about your understanding of it. Could you testify to it as fact? To understand it - you have to get into the minute details of the intentions - look for contradictions - work out whether you understand what was really being said. It takes a LOT of searching and thinking extemporaneously - imagining examples - seeking out whether it all really makes sense and is consistent throughout.

So far - it all seems consistent, legitimate - and a little scary.
Member of The Coalition of Truth - member #1

              You have been observed.
    Though often tempted to encourage a dog to distinguish color I refuse to argue with him about it
    It's just same Satanism as always -
    • separate the bottom from the top,
    • the left from the right,
    • the light from the dark, and
    • blame each for the sins of the other
    • - until they beg you to take charge.
    • -- but "you" have been observed --
obsrvr524
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Re: Observing JSS' thoughts on Psychology - RM:AO

Postby obsrvr524 » Sat Jun 19, 2021 4:00 pm

I have to point out that this is messing with my MIJOT.

I feel torn between the concern of what could be done - and isn't likely to happen - and the temptation to just largely ignore it all and enjoy the ride. Do I climb over this mountain - or just leisurely stroll around it in the shade.
Member of The Coalition of Truth - member #1

              You have been observed.
    Though often tempted to encourage a dog to distinguish color I refuse to argue with him about it
    It's just same Satanism as always -
    • separate the bottom from the top,
    • the left from the right,
    • the light from the dark, and
    • blame each for the sins of the other
    • - until they beg you to take charge.
    • -- but "you" have been observed --
obsrvr524
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Re: Observing JSS' thoughts on Psychology - RM:AO

Postby encode_decode » Sun Jun 20, 2021 7:31 am

I am just going to write something freely - not really get logical about anything for the moment.

obsrvr524 wrote:I have to point out that this is messing with my MIJOT.

I feel torn between the concern of what could be done - and isn't likely to happen - and the temptation to just largely ignore it all and enjoy the ride. Do I climb over this mountain - or just leisurely stroll around it in the shade.

Meh, this is just a forum man.

I don't know what your world outside of this forum is like but I do know that trying to change the world from within the world of a philosophy forum won't happen. Most of us just come here to bounce ideas off of each other. Philosophers are the worst in that they mostly just disagree about everything. Philosophers are influenced by the world like anyone else and that just makes the disagreements even more intense when the world outside any conversation is already an awful place. I appreciate why some people here want some really awesome debating - they want their enemy to be as strong as them. One of the first things James said to me was "welcome to the acid bath" - I knew from that point I would like him - he jumped in my threads really early - I miss his acid testing. As you know though, the outside world has made it into this little world of ILP and diluted its appearance of being anything serious.

Many great times have happened here over the past but it is like a shell of what it used to be. These days it seems the religious talk is the most interesting. The political talk always sees some action too...but...well, what do I say about that? The political realm is something that made me tired over fifteen years ago, so not much I guess. I am only surprised now how degraded that atmosphere has become - people throwing labels and not really getting into the heart of anything. Such a shallow seascape in that regard. I spend no time worrying about this place - we are who we are. I don't really want to hurt anyone's feelings by anything I say but sometimes that is outside my control when people invest too much of their own heart in an online community. I just don't do that - invest my heart in this place - I did to an extent with James because his connection to the world was older than a lot of people here with the exception of maybe one or two people that is - I mean, I don't know anyone here - there could be fifteen older people - but I knew for sure James was older. That deeper connection to the past gives older people who are still alive an advantage over the younger people - not that the younger people respect that much anymore - I was brought up to have the utmost respect in my elders so perhaps it is a cultural thing for me - this is not to say that there are not any bad older people, just that their experience does count for something...

...I could go on but the post would become quite long...so I will close this post with this - this is just a forum...yep, just a forum...hardly any of us really know each other.

It is not really worth investing too much of your heart around here...not gonna lie though - Meno_ is really cool, so yeah, I still have a favorite or two here.

What would satisfy me more is knowing that people are happy outside this place but I mind my own business so I don't really get into that too much - I don't really know how happy anyone here is.
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Re: Observing JSS' thoughts on Psychology - RM:AO

Postby obsrvr524 » Sun Jun 20, 2021 11:36 pm

I can certainly understand all of that - but I was referring to the mountain of things that are going to be done - things that actually could be done - and things that actually should be done - across the entire world - not at the microscopic realm of this little discussion board. O:)
Member of The Coalition of Truth - member #1

              You have been observed.
    Though often tempted to encourage a dog to distinguish color I refuse to argue with him about it
    It's just same Satanism as always -
    • separate the bottom from the top,
    • the left from the right,
    • the light from the dark, and
    • blame each for the sins of the other
    • - until they beg you to take charge.
    • -- but "you" have been observed --
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Re: Observing JSS' thoughts on Psychology - RM:AO

Postby encode_decode » Sun Jun 20, 2021 11:44 pm

.

obsrvr524 wrote:I can certainly understand all of that - but I was referring to the mountain of things that are going to be done - things that actually could be done - and things that actually should be done - across the entire world - not at the microscopic realm of this little discussion board. O:)

Yes, and you will notice a kernel of that in what I said.

.
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Re: Observing JSS' thoughts on Psychology - RM:AO

Postby Fixed Cross » Tue Jun 22, 2021 7:04 pm

We're in a time when people who haven't learned to take care of themselves against the onslaught James, myself and others have been discussing between 2006 and 2012, are simply not capable anymore of autonomous consciousness. The sheer affectance employed to trigger degenerative valuations is incomparably stronger in voltage our own EM systems, i.e. minds.

James was always adamant about the lack of time, spurring me on to translate value ontology into forms allowing for widespread methodical pragmatic use, as he desired to see, before the shit hit the fan.
The strong act as they may, the weak accept what they must.
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Re: Observing JSS' thoughts on Psychology - RM:AO

Postby obsrvr524 » Wed Jun 23, 2021 8:09 am

I think at this point all of this psycho-physics can be reduced to the realization that animals and people are walking talking bundles of massive amounts of subtle attitudes fluidly mulling, gestating, and propelling animation toward seeking and manipulating in the effort to acquire that anitropic harmony required to maintain - as misguided as it may be.

A trainer is someone who helps to mold some of those subtle responses to more efficiency - reorganizing the positive and negative attitudes and their associations - including everything from simply throwing a ball more accurately to total fanatical brainwashing into loving one thing and absolutely hating another.

While watching society - this kind of thing can be seen playing out as advocates of every type do everything they can to saturate and align their group's attitudes to love one thing and hate another - brainwashing their subjects - independent of factual information - not teaching but molding the mental jam to suppress certain responses and amplify other behaviors - creating triggers and obsessions. And they are doing that simply because of their own bundle of attitude alignments - seeking the same as all the others - manipulating just as all the others.

And looking across the world - there appears to be nothing else - the total sum of life on Earth - a self-feeding and festering stew of microscopic anima just playing out its psycho-chemical interactions.
Member of The Coalition of Truth - member #1

              You have been observed.
    Though often tempted to encourage a dog to distinguish color I refuse to argue with him about it
    It's just same Satanism as always -
    • separate the bottom from the top,
    • the left from the right,
    • the light from the dark, and
    • blame each for the sins of the other
    • - until they beg you to take charge.
    • -- but "you" have been observed --
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Re: Observing JSS' thoughts on Psychology - RM:AO

Postby Fixed Cross » Wed Jun 23, 2021 2:30 pm

Precisely, and it is only philosophy which can elevate this into something which could be called exalted, divine, excellent, even just merely 'good';

And as much as philosophy is largely a technical question, a fundamental part of it is its capacity for boldness beyond common sense;
it isn't common sense that makes us create magnificence beyond ourselves, it's a form of pride, which in a cynical light could be called presumptuousness;

the question of valuing, again, ad nauseam - to set standards beyond this mesh of psychochemistry, one has to simply decide to elevate ones values, and that doesn't follow from anything, there is no objective logical ground for it; it is a choice. It is a choice to elevate oneself, not a necessity. Unless ones character makes this choice a necessity but that is not a universal given.
The strong act as they may, the weak accept what they must.
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Re: Observing JSS' thoughts on Psychology - RM:AO

Postby obsrvr524 » Wed Jun 23, 2021 3:40 pm

Fixed Cross wrote:one has to simply decide to elevate ones values

Not to deviate from the topic too far - but what attitudes determine what is an "elevated value"?

This issue switches from what is - to what should be.
Member of The Coalition of Truth - member #1

              You have been observed.
    Though often tempted to encourage a dog to distinguish color I refuse to argue with him about it
    It's just same Satanism as always -
    • separate the bottom from the top,
    • the left from the right,
    • the light from the dark, and
    • blame each for the sins of the other
    • - until they beg you to take charge.
    • -- but "you" have been observed --
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Re: Observing JSS' thoughts on Psychology - RM:AO

Postby encode_decode » Wed Jun 23, 2021 5:00 pm

obsrvr524 wrote:
Fixed Cross wrote:one has to simply decide to elevate ones values

Not to deviate from the topic too far - but what attitudes determine what is an "elevated value"?

This issue switches from what is - to what should be.

Not wanting to butt in but perhaps a small exploration of Axiology may answer some of your questions unless of course, I am misdirected by what you guys are saying.
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Re: Observing JSS' thoughts on Psychology - RM:AO

Postby obsrvr524 » Wed Jun 23, 2021 5:28 pm

encode_decode wrote:Not wanting to butt in but perhaps a small exploration of Axiology may answer some of your questions unless of course, I am misdirected by what you guys are saying.

I think that would just change who I asked - not anything toward getting an answer. :D
Member of The Coalition of Truth - member #1

              You have been observed.
    Though often tempted to encourage a dog to distinguish color I refuse to argue with him about it
    It's just same Satanism as always -
    • separate the bottom from the top,
    • the left from the right,
    • the light from the dark, and
    • blame each for the sins of the other
    • - until they beg you to take charge.
    • -- but "you" have been observed --
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Re: Observing JSS' thoughts on Psychology - RM:AO

Postby encode_decode » Wed Jun 23, 2021 5:35 pm

obsrvr524 wrote:
encode_decode wrote:Not wanting to butt in but perhaps a small exploration of Axiology may answer some of your questions unless of course, I am misdirected by what you guys are saying.

I think that would just change who I asked - not anything toward getting an answer. :D

Perhaps! I will butt back out then...with a bow...and watch from afar...far afar.
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Re: Observing JSS' thoughts on Psychology - RM:AO

Postby felix dakat » Wed Jun 23, 2021 10:33 pm

I think I interacted with James S Saint only once or twice because it seemed clear to me that he was interested in developing a metaphysical system and I was a metaphysical skeptic who wasn't interested in arguing with him. Since I have been on ILP I have yet to see anyone receive as much appreciation as he is now receiving here.
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Re: Observing JSS' thoughts on Psychology - RM:AO

Postby obsrvr524 » Wed Jun 23, 2021 11:18 pm

felix dakat wrote:I think I interacted with James S Saint only once or twice because it seemed clear to me that he was interested in developing a metaphysical system and I was a metaphysical skeptic who wasn't interested in arguing with him. Since I have been on ILP I have yet to see anyone receive as much appreciation as he is now receiving here.

I have to confess a degree of obsession about James (more really about the things he brought out that I know I would never have thought about) :oops: . From the beginning the points he would raise in debates with people just struck me as so clear - I can't imagine why I (and so many others) never thought about those things (like to define what being a "god" means before arguing whether one exists - I think the first thing I noted). And he just kept pilling them on - and he maintained coherence throughout so so many normally unrelated topics. I haven't studied philosophy (at all really) but to get into so many things - from the very reason why the universe exists (without deflecting to "God did it") - to what it means to be a god - to why physics works the way it does - to why people do what they do - eventually to a totally new way to structure a government without ever ignoring or separating one reasoning from another - everything related to basic - apparently universal - principles. He actually explained how every topic is actually the same thing - if you understand any one - you already have an understanding of the others - just "get your words straight" he said (the consummate reductionist). :D


And speaking of that issue - it occurred to me to ask myself how James would answer that question -
obsrvr524 wrote:what attitudes determine what is an "elevated value"?

And immediately I could see that James (I'm sure) would simply say - "MIJOT" --- of course.

The necessary attitudes to promote a conscious realization and incentive to pursue the aim of MIJOT would establish an "elevated value" guide - because it would align all of the massive tiny attitude associations with what everyone is innately born already trying to do - making everyone more "whole" - sane - civil - harmonious within and out (what religion is supposed to do).
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Re: Observing JSS' thoughts on Psychology - RM:AO

Postby obsrvr524 » Fri Jun 25, 2021 11:39 am

Fixed Cross wrote:one has to simply decide to elevate ones values

I think I misunderstood that statement before. I guess what you were saying is that people should emphasize or raise the priority of their values.

The problem I see is that people are already their values animated. And to raise any one any higher they would have to reduce another. I don't think anyone could gain more total amount of attitude (James' PHT) or your values without growing a bigger brain - or bigger mind. So you are really saying that they should focus their values or attitudes - and then - toward which values or attitudes?

So they have to either drop some chosen concerns or gain a higher attitude toward growing a larger mind - else they couldn't change anything they are already doing.

And if you/we want them to do that - we have to say or do whatever it takes to cause that - they couldn't do it without outside influence inspiring them - choose our words carefully.
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    • blame each for the sins of the other
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Re: Observing JSS' thoughts on Psychology - RM:AO

Postby obsrvr524 » Fri Jul 02, 2021 11:57 am

-
Getting back to the formidable analysis of James' physics of psychology -

Trying to identify and study all of the possible structures formed by more basic elements is a daunting, nearly impossible task. When I think about the history of modern chemistry (the study of material valance structures) I see a massive project that has taken centuries to organize into entities, categories, problems, and solutions. Even using modern mega-computers the project isn't yet complete.

Starting with a variety of atoms reacting to form molecules interacting to form materials reacting to form bodies the number of possible combinations is in the trillions - maybe more. And what I am seeing now is that James has laid out that exact same situation concerning mental and social "atoms" (thoughts and families), "molecules" (combined thoughts and organizations), and the other analogous structures. Would it take another century just to organize those too?

Material chemistry is used to create material solutions for enumerable efforts - imagine what psycho-chemistry would yield. And here we find it all laid out - the exact same situation of incalculable possible combinations of sub-components and structures - just waiting for the process of utilizing it all to play out - no more mere hypothetical guessing.

All of the mental, social, and political issues - all understood with extreme categorical detail - all with designable and constructable creations and cures - and all as complex as it can get - but there it is - just waiting. The massiveness of it really boggles my mind - and it is real - clear and present opportunity.

I have spent days just trying to wrap my mind around the scope all of this - especially related to political issues - I can't let go of the reality of it - but I'm not going to try any more (it's messing with my MIJOT) - just going to move on -
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              You have been observed.
    Though often tempted to encourage a dog to distinguish color I refuse to argue with him about it
    It's just same Satanism as always -
    • separate the bottom from the top,
    • the left from the right,
    • the light from the dark, and
    • blame each for the sins of the other
    • - until they beg you to take charge.
    • -- but "you" have been observed --
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Re: Observing JSS' thoughts on Psychology - RM:AO

Postby Fixed Cross » Fri Jul 02, 2021 6:22 pm

obsrvr524 wrote:
Fixed Cross wrote:one has to simply decide to elevate ones values

Not to deviate from the topic too far - but what attitudes determine what is an "elevated value"?

This issue switches from what is - to what should be.

A matter of structural integrity.

Like literal elevation. You cant elevate something if you dont place it on a basis of great structural integrity.
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