this, our winter of discontentment.....

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this, our winter of discontentment.....

Postby Peter Kropotkin » Wed Jan 27, 2021 6:39 pm

I am back after 7 straight days of work... exhaustion wouldn't
even cover what I am feeling today...and I foresee a couple of
naps today....but not yet.....for right now, I am looking at
what ail us in this our winter of discontentment.......

in looking around, I see an unhappy nation, an unhappy political
and social and religious and economic and philosophical discontentment
around the nation and the world.....

tell me friend, who is happy these days? the liberals? not that I can tell,
and it certainly isn't the conservatives who are happy... and the moderates
are stuck in the middle between this fierce cross fighting between the liberals
and the conservatives......and how can one be happy given the state of the nation....

we have a plague and an economic collapse and millions out of work
and a nation that barely survive it's democracy being destroyed
and a dictatorship being installed......

so we have an unrivaled political, social, economic and health crisis
that dominates the land.....so, what is there to be happy about?

and we see that unhappiness listed here at ILP when some, no names,
say, well my team lost and so I am done with American politics...
because my side didn't win, I am taking my ball and going home,
to pout.. like a 4 year old.....and that solves or answer the questions
that face us... how?

who has said, there is a deep and profound problem/problems in America today,
and what is the solution?

and of course the right will claim, it is the liberals and socialism and
democrats that has caused this winter of discontentment....
and because conservatism is the Romanticism of the 19 century carried
into a new age, a political age, it has no thought or depth to it...
because Romanticism is about emotions and feelings and the important
thing is to feel it completely, not to think or be rational, but to feel....and
that is why the right wing doesn't offer us any rational or logical solutions
to our current problems.. the right simply offers us emotional solutions to
our winter of discontentment....to overthrow the freely elected president by
a coup attempt... that is emotionalism at its best...to make a bad situation
even worse by turning America into a dictatorship... that will solve all our
problems, right? let me say that if your solution is to turn a country into
a dictatorship, then we have bigger problems then we thought.....

that our problems are so great that only a dictatorship can solve it, leads
us to a Hitler and a Stalin and a Mao.... I wonder how that turned out?
the thousand year Reich...... lasted 12 years...the Soviet Union lasted
71 years.. and it was kinda surprising that it lasted that long...
and as for China, it simply turned itself into a dictatorship and is no
longer following Mao....think of the many, many dictatorship of the 20th
century.. and did any of them, any of them lasted very long? Nope......

and why? given the many examples we have of dictatorships, we can
see that they completely fail the the being successful test.... dictatorships
are doomed to failure.. that is their nature to fail....now let us compare two
political systems, a dictatorship and a democracy.... the U.S has survived for
over 240 years...please feel free to point out a dictatorship that has lasted as long?

the basic idea of democracy has lasted far longer then any, any dictatorship
on record... thus passing a critical test of existence.... the far more
adaptable systems, last longer... this is a basic fact of existence....
and democracy can change and adapt far better then a dictatorship
and thus has more value...and thus will last far longer......
the very length of democracies vs the average existence of
dictatorships prove this...

so why does this winter of discontentment includes the political?

we will return to this later....

so we also have a failure of the economic... millions of people out of work,
thousands of business have failed...we are in the midst of the biggest economic
collapse since the Great Depression....and why?

and we are in the midst of the midst of the worst social unrest since the 1960's...
and why?

I believe that all of these are connected.. as I always believe that everything is
connected....the political, the economic, the social, the philosophical, all connected....

so does changing simply policy practices such as changing the income rate from 21% to
25% really going to make a difference? no, not in the least... policy changes don't change
a fucking thing..... and saying, we need to make a law that..... isn't going to change a
dam thing either.....

the problem is deeper then any such policy or legislative changes are going to
make.....let us look at another possibility....

we human beings are biological creatures.... we age... and we become ill
and we have diseases and finally we die..... it is the basic rule of existence....

so, let us say, I become ill....my body is worn down and I have become fat
and out of shape and I am simply not in good heath... so, what needs to happen?

clearly something we are doing or multiple somethings we are doing, isn't working....

the doctor is going to tell you, If you want to live, you have to make dramatic
changes in your life and your lifestyle... this isn't working for you if you are sick
and out of shape and miserable... clearly something has to change.....

and we look at America today and we see something isn't working, we are
sick and out of shape and miserable...
but as I pointed out, the political going to a dramatic change of a dictatorship
is the path to failure, politically....

so some other change is necessary....to turn this malaise that is America today
into some sort of successful return to normalcy... and a successfully working
America....

so we must seek some other possibilities.. the economic is one such possibility...

some might argue that that capitalism is the way into the future.. but I say that
capitalism has in fact, help bring us to this crisis.....that capitalism has failed is
evident to any who actually looks at it with open eyes.......

or does millions being out of work and thousands of business having failed or
the income inequality that so dominates America today, really a sign of success?
if that looks like success to you, then we have far different ideas about what is success.

one of the ways we look at an economically successful America is by the down jones
average but that has nothing to do with the Average American life...IQ45 claimed
that the height of the Dow proved that America was economically successful, but
that just isn't true....only 50% of all Americans have stock and that is basically their
retirement fund...I hold that millions of American's being 3 weeks away from being
homeless is a far better indication of where America stands economically.....
and millions more are barely surviving..... where millions are lacking
the proper food and health care and basic infrastructure necessary
to lead successful lives.....so we are failing politically and we are failing
economically and how about socially?

the fact that millions upon millions of American's went to the streets last
summer to protest racial inequality tells us what we need to know about
where America stands in terms of our social state.......

we are failing in several different ways, political, socially,
economically, and what I might call philosophically.....

and what exactly does that mean?

what does all this failing in several different area's of existence really mean?

we are a massively disconnected country...with recent fighting in America's
Capital building where people died.... how does that paint us a picture
of a successful America? a America that is unified and together.......

we cannot, ever, until we discover the point and purpose of what it means
to be an American, to finally be able to unify as a country.....

or even more basic, what does it mean to be a human being?

are we political beings, or are we economic beings or are we social
beings?

what is the driving force behind what it means to be an American?

is being an American really about the goals of achieving wealth and titles
and power? I have questioned this often.... what is the point of human existence?

is it really about the acquirement of wealth? do we discover what it means to
be human in the fulfillment of being rich? does having a lot of pieces of paper really
mean you are fulfilled as a human being? The recent events of the last year must
put this idea into question.... we have massive problems and I hold that part of the
reason we are in such a mess is that we are seeking the wrong things....and this leads
us to seek our reward in that which doesn't reward anyone in anyway........in other words,
seeking wealth and fame and titles and power isn't a search that leads one to
become a fully functional, happy human being........I hold that America is
in crisis because we are seeking wealth, power, fame and titles.... and we have
lost what it means to be a human being....that is the source of our winter of
discontentment.....we are seeking the wrong things.....
and that is clear from this last year of the failure of the political, the social,
the economic and the philosophical.......

how does the conservatives calling for the death of liberals and democrats,
point us to an America that is succeeding?

how does a president who attempted to overthrow the government in an coup
attempt point us to a America that is succeeding?

how does millions of Americans out of work and being evicted from their homes,
proof that America is succeeding?

how does Millions of American's marching the streets for racial justice, show
us an America that is succeeding?

and how does our complete and utter failure to deal with the pandemic show
us an America that is succeeding?

the truth is we are failing on so many levels it is hard to keep track of.....

so, what is the solution?

that so many area's are in crisis mode, that we cannot just make simply policy
changes and hope that might work.... our multiple crisis is beyond a simple policy change
to correct them..... we must enact some serious changes in our lives.....

just as the doctor tell us that we must make changes to our life and our
lifestyle to be able to live much longer......

and what changes must America make to allow it to survive these multiple
crisis in our land right now?

we must and this is crucial... we must change what it is we are after...
in other words, seeking wealth and power and titles and fame has gotten
us into this mess, it certainly won't get us out of our many crisis we have right now....

if it isn't wealth or power or fame or titles, we seek, then what should we seek?

I say that the only way out of this crisis, is a serious reevaluation of values that we hold
as American's and as human beings.........

what should we be seeking if not wealth or fame or titles or power?

I hold that Socrates had the right idea... first, we must know thyself..
and secondly, we must engage in the idea, the unexamined life isn't worth living....

and Nietzsche had the second part, we must overcome or revaluate our values to
see if the values we currently hold are really our values or are they just values
that were indoctrinated into us as children? what have you overcome?

Kropotkin
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Re: this, our winter of discontentment.....

Postby Peter Kropotkin » Wed Jan 27, 2021 7:39 pm

let us take a little journey into history.....

let us understand what has happened during Republican presidents
and democratic presidents....

let us go back to before most of you were born... 1968. Richard Nixon
was elected president... I was alive at that time, so I am a eyewitness
to that time period....

In 1974, when Nixon resigned, I was in high school... the nation was fractured
and shattered...we had no trust in the political system due to a little
event called Watergate.....Nixon's upcoming impeachment shattered and divided
the country... any of this sounds familiar? When Nixon left office, the country
was in its worst shape since the 1930's....the political was in shambles,
the economic wasn't any better and the social, the nation had several years
of street protest and violence that involved millions? ummm, does that sound
familiar?

the mess that Nixon left was so bad that it took almost a decade to repair...
and even then it wasn't fixed or repaired... the economic mess, the political
mess and the foreign mess was, in part, lead to the Carter years being unsuccessful....
he had too many messes to try to clean up to be able to clean up any one of these
disasters........

the Raygun years, were a complete disaster... it lead to a failed America...
we just didn't notice it for a generation....... the Raygun solution was to simply
abandon a entire generation of minorities to their fate... the racial turmoil we see
today can be directly traced to the Ragun years....for they made no effort to
help anyone who was a minority... you were simply abandon to your fate...
the entire Raygun focus was on the wealthy.. given them tax cuts which seriously hurt
American by increasing the debt, but hay, the GOP for 50 has been about the wealthy,
government of the rich, for the rich, by the rich.... that is their motto.....

but the second problem and one we still feel today, lies in it attack upon
the government as the problem.... the government isn't the problem, the
government is the solution... and those who attack me for this, have simply
bit into the Raygun propaganda about the government being the problem....
if the government was the problem, then why give billionaires and millionaires
billions and trillions of dollars of tax cuts? if the government was the problem, then
why is the government the solution to tax cuts which is seen as part of the solution?

if the government were the problem, then tax cuts wouldn't be needed...
the people could simple work their way out of the problem...no government was
needed.... remember...the very act of a tax cut proves the government has value....
thus proving Raygun wrong..... and this attempt to paint the government as
being the problem has lead in a great part to the anti-government belief
being held today...leading to the attacks on the capital a couple of weeks ago.....

we see the Raygun lies as the the value of government being manifested today...
in anti-Government beliefs held by the young ignorant kids around here... on ILP
and part of the anti-vaxxers today.... anti... being the key word....
and this was all engaged with during the Raygun years....
and part of what is haunting us today....

and we have the Clinton years....and what do we see?

we see happy successful years.. in which the economy boomed
and we had a very successful domestic and foreign policy.....

and we have the next GOP years, Bush jr.... and what did we see?

the national debt which was reduced to a surplus was once again
increased by trillions of dollars by unsuccessful tax cuts.. that did nothing
to help anyone but the wealthy get wealthier....and we got into
two wars and had the greatest domestic terror attack in America's history....

the country was bitterly divided and torn into factions because of failed
political, economic and social policies instituted by the GOP.....
and we had failed practices like tax cuts and social policies that divided
and help destroy people's lives... there was a quite of bit of social
unrest and political divide and economic turmoil during the bush jr. years....
the single worst economic failure until IQ45 happened during the last year
of Bush jr....

and then we had Obama... and once again, we see the democrats
unifying and united the country in ways the GOP didn't...we had
a great 8 years economically.. we didn't see massive unrest marching
in the streets..... the government was part of the solution the nation
being better off during the Clinton and Obama years whereas during
the Bush and IQ45 years, we had massive unrest and failed economic,
social, philosophical issues during the Bush and IQ45 years, problems we didn't see
during the Clinton and Obama years...

just a simple research into recent history tells us that it is conservative,
GOP administrations that we were lead into political, social, economic
and philosophical unrest and problems......

a look into history tells us that it is by liberalism and democratic government
that we have improved, social, economic, political and philosophical
America.....

by every standard we can use, the people and America itself is better off
during a democratic/liberal government...... this is one possible means
we can work out our winter of discontentment.....

but other solutions are possible.....

Kropotkin
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Re: this, our winter of discontentment.....

Postby WendyDarling » Wed Jan 27, 2021 8:07 pm

One reason the government is the problem is that the government created tax loopholes which benefit the rich. It doesn’t matter if the 1% richest are supposed to pay 80% higher taxes if in reality the loopholes allow them to pay zero ZERO taxes or only 5% taxes. But you wouldn’t understand that now Peter, you’d just scream tax the rich more without fixing the loopholes which allow the rich to escape paying any fair share of taxes. The loopholes continue to exist because the top government officials become rich and benefit from the loopholes. Duh.
Member of The Coalition of Truth - member #2/2

"facts change all the time and not only that, they don't mean anything...."-Peter Kropotkin :evilfun:
"I can hope they have some degree of self-awareness but the facts suggest that
they don't..... "- Peter Kropotkin
. :evilfun:
"you don't know the value of facts and you don't know the value of the ‘TRUTH”... " -Peter Kropotkin :lol:
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Re: this, our winter of discontentment.....

Postby Peter Kropotkin » Wed Jan 27, 2021 8:17 pm

WendyDarling wrote:One reason the government is the problem is that the government created tax loopholes which benefit the rich. It doesn’t matter if the 1% richest are supposed to pay 80% higher taxes if in reality the loopholes allow them to pay zero ZERO taxes or only 5% taxes. But you wouldn’t understand that now Peter, you’d just scream tax the rich more without fixing the loopholes which allow the rich to escape paying any fair share of taxes. The loopholes continue to exist because the top government officials become rich and benefit from the loopholes. Duh.


K: and water is wet....I am not suggesting that the entire problem is tax evasion by the rich,
my argument is far deeper then that... it is an entire way of looking at government that is the
problem... you believe with your entire heart that the "government is the problem, not the solution"
and this is in large part, why we are in such difficulties today...it isn't about the policy difference
between a tax rate of 15% and 25%....... it is far deeper then that....

don't look at the policy differences... look at how we view the government....

Kropotkin
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Re: this, our winter of discontentment.....

Postby WendyDarling » Wed Jan 27, 2021 8:26 pm

If the government stopped being corrupt and helping themselves more than their constituents, there wouldn’t be a problem. And big government means more corruption, not less. Corporations own our politicians and that’s a big problem.
Member of The Coalition of Truth - member #2/2

"facts change all the time and not only that, they don't mean anything...."-Peter Kropotkin :evilfun:
"I can hope they have some degree of self-awareness but the facts suggest that
they don't..... "- Peter Kropotkin
. :evilfun:
"you don't know the value of facts and you don't know the value of the ‘TRUTH”... " -Peter Kropotkin :lol:
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Re: this, our winter of discontentment.....

Postby Peter Kropotkin » Wed Jan 27, 2021 8:46 pm

WendyDarling wrote:If the government stopped being corrupt and helping themselves more than their constituents, there wouldn’t be a problem. And big government means more corruption, not less. Corporations own our politicians and that’s a big problem.


K: and more water is wet type of arguments....

tell me about how you view government as oppose to a liberal....
it is in the viewpoint that Raygun brought about our current disaster
that government is the problem, not the solution... and yet, with each democratic
administration that we see government being the solution.. with each democratic
administration being far better then the GOP administration....why?

because the Dem's use government as a solution and the GOP uses government
as the problem...... and historically, which party does a far better job during
it's administration? clearly by any standard, it is the Dem's that have better
government....

compare Obama years to Bush Jr. years or use Clinton years to bush or Raygun years,
and then compare either Obama or Clinton to IQ45 years...... or compare then to
the Nixon years......... during every GOP administration, we see a terrible economy,
we see marchers in the streets, we see massive deficits in the government during the
GOP years.... and the DOW, which I admit is a terrible way to judge people's lives,
is always better during a during a Dem's administration...... there is no standard
standard in which a GOP administration is better then a Dem's administration...
economically, politically, socially or philosophically......

but that isn't important because you feel that the GOP is better even despite
evidence that it isn't better...... don't fall into the policy trap.... look deeper
and from an birds eye view....

Kropotkin
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Re: this, our winter of discontentment.....

Postby Peter Kropotkin » Fri Jan 29, 2021 2:15 am

we see congressman threating one another in congress itself,
and trying to bring guns into congress... attacking each other,
just a couple of weeks ago, we saw an coup attempt at the capital building....

and here on ILP, we have talk of violence and retribution and talk that
doesn't allow for dialogue or conversation...

(I have to admit I have added to that and for that, I am sorry, but I am
aware of my role in raising the volume on ILP, others here have no clue
and that is what I am trying to do, raise awareness of what we say to each other)

instead of focusing on the other guys, let us focus on what we can work on,
which is ourselves....what do I hold to be true and why? instead of, the other guy
is wrong and violent and a waste, let us remain focus on what we need to work on.....

if you want a better world, a better place to live in, then we have to focus
on who we are and what it is we hold to be true....I have no problem with
a revolution, recall former anarchist.. but what I want is to be clear, crystal
clear as to what we hold to be true and what we hold to be true is somehow
better or more true, then what was.....think of the revolutions, political
revolutions especially..... why did the American and French succeed far
better then the Russian revolution? Because the American and French
revolutions did bring about something better then the old guard, whereas
the Russian revolution promised much, but it wasn't any better then the Czar's
of old......the Russians just replaced a monarchy with a dictatorship and that never
ends well....but what exactly are we threating to replace our democracy with?

the right seems to want a dictatorship of IQ45.... as a solution to the problems
of the country but the questions flow much deeper then that.....

"who are we?" "What is it we are hoping for?"

are we hoping to become better people or are we hoping that somehow
bringing about political change will somehow make us better?

to blame the system and the political factions is to avoid taking responsibility for
our own beliefs and actions....until we begin to hold ourselves accountable
and responsible, it doesn't matter in any, way, shape or form what kind of
economic, political, social or philosophical system we have, until we fix ourselves,
we can never find comfort or happiness or peace of mind.... to look outside of
ourselves for the answers is a path of failure....

to say, the other side is wrong and thus I am allowed retribution is simply
a way to avoid taking any type of responsibility for our beliefs or our actions......
it doesn't matter if the other side is violent or loud or wrong or naive?

what matters is us and out engagement with who we are and what we hold to be
true? Context matters and what beliefs we hold in what context, matters....

"what am I to do?" is that a call to violence? is that a call to peace? is that a call
to rethink what it means to be human? ask yourself, "what am I to do?"

is work really the answer? is seeking the baubles of existence really the
answer? in seeking, what we seek is just as important as what we find......
asking questions is just as important as the answers we find......

I recall when I was younger and I thought I had forever to live......
well sports fans, it ain't true....life is fleeting and very, very short.....

"what am I to do with the short time I have in this existence?"

to waste it on work or policy differences which don't matter in about 12 minutes
or flaming wars against each other that are best forgotten because they mean nothing,
nothing at all..... although they seem to be important right now, right now is very
fleeting.... In my life, there were persons who meant the world to me and I would
have taken a bullet for... today, I don't even know if those people are ever still alive....
life is remarkable transitory... the words I often bring up is "who, what, when, where,
how and why?" and in those moments when the who, this person was so very important,
and then, that moment passes and that person is no longer in your life... and the "what"
becoming a manager at one time was so important and today, not in any, way, shape or form
is that important.... the when, time was when I was young, different things matter
greatly to me, not today... and the where... I have lived in 4 different states and went
to roughly 20 or 25 different schools, does that matter today? not in the least.....
how I lived at one point was not much more then being one small, very small step
from being homeless.... that doesn't matter anymore... and the most important question
of all, why? all other questions pale in regards this question of why?

we fight and scream and shout at one another and in 10 minutes, it
won't matter in any way, shape or form..... it just isn't that important.......

I have a theory about store managers... if the store doesn't change in any way,
shape or form when they are there or when they are not there, then the store
manager is completely irrelevant.. it doesn't matter if they are there or not,
the store runs the exact same way either way, then it doesn't matter if they are there....

we can shout and scream and threaten each other and yet, it doesn't seem to
change a dam thing, then perhaps, perhaps it is completely irrelevant that
people are there or not there... but if you want to make a change, a real change,
focus on who you are and what is it you believe in and why......

make a change that will create a difference.....hold yourself
accountable and responsible.... make that change....that is a change
we can see and hear and touch and respond to....see the ideal you and then
change to become that ideal you...... become who you are.....

Kropotkin
PK IS EVIL.....
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Re: this, our winter of discontentment.....

Postby Peter Kropotkin » Fri Jan 29, 2021 2:23 am

the winter of our discontentment comes, not from the outside, but from
our discontentment with who we are... our discontentment comes from the fact,
that we are not happy with ourselves....... the first saying of Socrates is....

Know thyself.... do you?

the second motto of Socrates is...

the unexamined life isn't worth living..... do you examine your life?

instead of attacking others, try to attack what you hold to be true and
examine those beliefs....... why those beliefs? why not other beliefs?

it is easy to simply blame others for your discontentment.. those dam liberals
or democrats.. I would be happy if it weren't for them.....that is simply denial of
what is true..... the only person who holds your happiness is........ you.... if you
aren't happy, then the responsibility lies with you... take accountability for your own
self.....stop blaming others.....stop screaming at others for you own inability to take
responsibility for your own life...


Kropotkin
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