The Relevance of Truth

[Urwrongx1000]

I'm not sure about that. President Harris might be put in jeopardy. They want sufficient cause to get rid of Biden (after he grants amnesty to all involved) - the plan all along to which he obviously agreed - "I am Harris' running mate. You think I'm kidding?" - "I will just get some ailment and leave office".

Just wait and see, I'm confident, I've already seen MSM releasing small stories here and there, throwing a few crumbs to the plebs. They'll release more news of the corruption that cannot be hidden over time, but it will be on page 4 of the newspaper, or nearer the back. They release news after-the-fact, and only when it can no longer damage the illegitimacy of their methods. Again, the damage has already been done. Also think of how proud and brazen the Communists are. They want to flout it in the faces of America, showing that they can destroy this country, and laugh with impunity.

It's more demoralizing to the enemy (us) that they can commit crimes publicly and with impunity. This is why they don't mind releasing the news far after the damage is done.

https://www.kxan.com/news/texas/ag-paxt ... d-charged/

So going forward? We should do what? - The New Dark Age Philosophy.

I don't know exactly yet. As mentioned, I think any remaining Patriots and defenders of our Republic should concentrate in Texas. Perhaps there they would have the strength to secede from the Union. Many states would join them.

But until secession occurs, the left and right, democrat and republican, liberal and conservative, cannot live in the same society together. That is a fact right now, and going forward. There is no path to unity after Trump's presidency and this Election Fraud.

[promethean75]

"There is no path to unity after Trump's presidency and this Election Fraud"

There is only one kind of unity in a society that matters if it exists, and that's the unity of the workers and producers. Talk of any other 'unity' is nonsense, never existed, and will never exist.

In fact, the trump fiasco might very well be the nail in the coffin of conservatism.

[promethean75]

Lol and when biden gets that minimum wage up to $15... you think the american people (a huge majority who will be making this new wage) will vote some useless parasite who will try and destroy that, back into office?!

[Certainly real]

I think the conversations are straying from the issue here. For those who have not been tracking the current real world politics in the US and across the world, let me explain something -

Right now in the real world of China people are not allowed to know of any forbidden truths. Using super surveillance everyone's speech and facial expressions are being monitored and gauged. If anyone says a forbidden thing, doesn't smile when they are supposed to, doesn't laugh when they are supposed to, doesn't get angry when they are supposed to, AI automatically assesses a social credit score to punish wrong attitudes and emotions because they are indicators of unacceptable thinking.

That sounds Orwellian but is the reality in China RIGHT NOW. And very soon it will be the reality throughout the world. The US is getting started into that socialist/communist authoritarian state right now. Across the world there is no longer any icon of freedom of thought. The war for freedom has been lost. The very near future is Orwellian and Brave New World-ish. The super rich are ensuring it.

So in reality actual truth is, starting today, forbidden. So in such a situation philosophers, authors, movie producers, talk show hosts, news outlets, religious ministers, social media speakers will all be punished for wrong-think. Words will be forbidden. Subjects of conversation will be forbidden (such as this one). Questioning authorities will be forbidden. All punishable in real world ways.

With all of that in mind it is necessary to consider what personal philosophy best suits each person in dealing with this new dark age. And as a basis it is important to consider how much real truth is worth knowing or spreading - what is the actual real world relevance of truth? - knowing it or spreading it when such actions will be punished.

If I think something is true, and I have solid reasons for believing in it being true, and I have solid reasons to believe that I am not committing injustice by expressing it, then I should express it. If I refuse to express it because I fear men will punish me (which is not guaranteed), then I have wronged myself by viewing God/Existence as such that the better move for me and my environment, was to allow the suppression of reason and a genuine sense of good. The better move for me, would have been to rage against irrationality and evil (whist ensuring that I myself am not tyrannical or irrational or sincere to other than God during the process. It may be that I do not fear the men, but that I am still insincere to God because I value myself in excess and disregard that both me and those men are equally pathetic such that we both deserve to harm each other and oppress each other as we are both weak in sincerity to God/Truth).

[promethean75]

"As mentioned, I think any remaining Patriots and defenders of our Republic should concentrate in Texas. Perhaps there they would have the strength to secede from the Union."

That's fine, but on one condition. The entire state has to be surrounded by a sound proof wall so we don't have to hear it.

[phoneutria]

In fact, the trump fiasco might very well be the nail in the coffin of conservatism.

lol if u think
the majority of millenials
won't turn conservative
when they're 40

[Meno_]

There appears an indiginous break between conservative and liberal positions, as is evident by the irreverseability between process and formal legal argument, where the defense of the form of the argument always defers to contradictory counter arguments, which defy common sense.

In spite of the truth of this erosion of power to express, sense is predicated on counter arguments, to make sense!


So there is the enigma of participation and representation in a democracy, a circumventing of any rational enlightened doubt.*






*if justice is to prevail

[obsrvr524]

I think the one most critical issue here isn't really being addressed by anyone -

What if the real truth is that the real truth is unwise to know?

If that is correct then it would justify all of the efforts to maintain confusion and setup an artificial narrative for all people to accept (as was done with Christianity and other religions). It would justify liberalism against rationality. And perhaps in the long run justify total authoritarian rule (hard to believe but not totally void of conception).

[Certainly real]

I think the one most critical issue here isn't really being addressed by anyone -

What if the real truth is that the real truth is unwise to know?

If that is correct then it would justify all of the efforts to maintain confusion and setup an artificial narrative for all people to accept (as was done with Christianity and other religions). It would justify liberalism against rationality. And perhaps in the long run justify total authoritarian rule (hard to believe but not totally void of conception).

Given Existence Being Perfect, it is absurd for it to be the case that 'the real truth is that the real truth is unwise to know'. This applies to any given truth. If one is evil and seeks imperfection instead of perfection, then they are not going to like the truth. Even then, it would have been better for them to know the truth and act in accordance to it, then to ignore it and end up suffering a loss of goodness as a result of this decision to ignore truth. When Existence Is Perfect, it is not wise to be in opposition to Perfection. Or to reject it or be unappreciative of It. For any given matter, if you knew all the premises, you would conclude, it could not be any better than this. If it was other than this, then that implies God is not Perfect. God not Being Perfect is absurd.

[Ecmandu]

I think the one most critical issue here isn't really being addressed by anyone -

What if the real truth is that the real truth is unwise to know?

If that is correct then it would justify all of the efforts to maintain confusion and setup an artificial narrative for all people to accept (as was done with Christianity and other religions). It would justify liberalism against rationality. And perhaps in the long run justify total authoritarian rule (hard to believe but not totally void of conception).

The truth now is horrible:

When you win, you are sent to hell

When you lose, you are in hell

That’s not a necessary reality forever though, just our current reality.

Waking up is not what people think it is. Waking up to this reality is just what I wrote above.

Any zero sum or negative zero sum interaction will send you to hell in the current reality.

That’s part of what being awake is.

I’ve exhausted all variables in these proofs... we need to upgrade the current reality with a “patch”.

The patch makes it so that we’re reflecting reality from platonic forms with hyper dimensional mirrors... making it so that everyone is loved by everyone for who they are without hurting any being by always manifesting their individual desire matrices forever.

[obsrvr524]

Given Existence Being Perfect, it is absurd for it to be the case that 'the real truth is that the real truth is unwise to know'. This applies to any given truth.

You keep saying that but what is the reasoning behind it?

Consider that you currently know that you do not know the perfect truth concerning life and the universe, right? You have said that it is "beyond our imperfect conception".

So lets supposed just a hypothetical example of what might be that prefect truth just to make a point. God comes to you and makes it clear to you that the following is the real perfect truth -

Your struggle in life is absolutely pointless. I will ensure that anything you try to accomplish will fail. You will suffer and gain nothing at all. You will eventually die and be totally forgotten - completely erased from all memory. Nothing you tried to do will survive either. Everything about you is just a temporary blip in the universe no different than a small unknown chemical reaction within an extremely distant star that didn't even add to the light.

I am NOT saying that such is the actual truth. I am saying that you do not know the actual truth so perhaps it is something miserable like that.

But if you discovered that such was "Certainly real" what would you do? I think that you would lose heart. You would know that any hope you felt was misguided and not really worth the struggle. Like the story of Medusa - once looking upon here you "turn to stone". Or more Biblically - "He who looks upon the face of God cannot live". You might even - "turn to a pillar of salt".

So according to Moses and the Hebrews, my example is not without merit.

And if such was true - because that would end your life, you would never try, explore, or probably even eat - total depression - maybe even commit suicide - isn't it unwise to ever learn of it?

The patch makes it so that we’re reflecting reality from platonic forms with hyper dimensional mirrors... making it so that everyone is loved by everyone for who they are without hurting any being by always manifesting their individual desire matrices forever.

So create an artificial reality that will need to be reinforced so as to protect the young from dissenting opinions? A fascist, authoritarian State controlled narrative?

[Ecmandu]

Given Existence Being Perfect, it is absurd for it to be the case that 'the real truth is that the real truth is unwise to know'. This applies to any given truth.

You keep saying that but what is the reasoning behind it?

Consider that you currently know that you do not know the perfect truth concerning life and the universe, right? You have said that it is "beyond our imperfect conception".

So lets supposed just a hypothetical example of what might be that prefect truth just to make a point. God comes to you and makes it clear to you that the following is the real perfect truth -

Your struggle in life is absolutely pointless. I will ensure that anything you try to accomplish will fail. You will suffer and gain nothing at all. You will eventually die and be totally forgotten - completely erased from all memory. Nothing you tried to do will survive either. Everything about you is just a temporary blip in the universe no different than a small unknown chemical reaction within an extremely distant star that didn't even add to the light.

I am NOT saying that such is the actual truth. I am saying that you do not know the actual truth so perhaps it is something miserable like that.

But if you discovered that such was "Certainly real" what would you do? I think that you would lose heart. You would know that any hope you felt was misguided and not really worth the struggle. Like the story of Medusa - once looking upon here you "turn to stone". Or more Biblically - "He who looks upon the face of God cannot live". You might even - "turn to a pillar of salt".

So according to Moses and the Hebrews, my example is not without merit.

And if such was true - because that would end your life, you would never try, explore, or probably even eat - total depression - maybe even commit suicide - isn't it unwise to ever learn of it?

The patch makes it so that we’re reflecting reality from platonic forms with hyper dimensional mirrors... making it so that everyone is loved by everyone for who they are without hurting any being by always manifesting their individual desire matrices forever.

So create an artificial reality that will need to be reinforced so as to protect the young from dissenting opinions? A fascist, authoritarian State controlled narrative?

Not even close. There’s this really pretty, highly desirable in intellect and personality who wants me as a boyfriend ... but I know if I date her, I will shatter hearts and be sent to hell. That means more to me than seeing her naked.

At a certain evolution in consciousness in this current reality where we have more than one actual person in it with us, it’s a lose scenario always. To make relationships completely worthwhile you have to give everyone that privilege and not just the mutually exclusive you.

I mean, we can talk about this more if you want the details...

I will say this though: you are not awesome until everyone is awesome...

[obsrvr524]

There’s this really pretty, highly desirable in intellect and personality who wants me as a boyfriend ... but I know if I date her, I will shatter hearts and be sent to hell. That means more to me than seeing her naked.

At a certain evolution in consciousness in this current reality where we have more than one actual person in it with us, it’s a lose scenario always. To make relationships completely worthwhile you have to give everyone that privilege and not just the mutually exclusive you.

I am tempted to say that you should just stop worrying about it - but since I know that isn't possible - I don't really have anything to say.

I will say this though: you are not awesome until everyone is awesome...

But then if everyone is awesome, no one is awesome - to be awesome is to be outstanding from the rest. So what you are saying is that awesome doesn't even exist. Again - "so stop worrying about it".

[Certainly real]

You keep saying that but what is the reasoning behind it?

The reasoning behind Existence Being Perfect is that its rejection is paradoxical. See the thread on Omnipotence (the one where I'm in discussion with Sil) for my reasoning on this.

So lets supposed just a hypothetical example of what might be that prefect truth just to make a point. God comes to you and makes it clear to you that the following is the real perfect truth -

Your struggle in life is absolutely pointless. I will ensure that anything you try to accomplish will fail. You will suffer and gain nothing at all. You will eventually die and be totally forgotten - completely erased from all memory. Nothing you tried to do will survive either. Everything about you is just a temporary blip in the universe no different than a small unknown chemical reaction within an extremely distant star that didn't even add to the light.

What you say amounts to saying if our 'god' was imperfect and evil, what should we do? We should try and kill ourselves if we could so that we could avoid him/her. But to be honest, I have not given you a reasonable answer here because of the following (and I mean no disrespect to the question you ask when I say the following):

It is meaningless for us to engage in that 'hypothetical' because it is not a true hypothetical. It is an absurdity. No meaningful points can be made from it just as no meaningful points can be made from considering the 'hypothetical' of what if Existence did not exist. Or what if there was a circle that was not actually round. Or what if science observed something coming from nothing.

To suffer and gain nothing at all is only perfection in relation to truly evil beings. But truly evil beings passionately favour themselves or their families ahead of God. They ignore the truth that this is wrong so they can persist in wrongdoing. They consent/choose to be rapists/oppressors. The rapist rapes the woman because he thinks himself physically superior to her, whilst ignoring how powerless he is in relation to Existence despite being reminded. The rapist would rape God if he could. God makes this clear to the rapist. The rapist refuses to care and is happy to continue to be evil, happy to seek respite (as Satan did with Adam) at the cost of Hell. Someone suffering for someone else's gain is only perfection when it's evil suffering for good. In other words, domination, slavery, pain, and pleasure, is only perfection in one context. In all other contexts, it is perverted. Had the rapist acknowledged the truth or took any reasonable steps towards it, he would have been better off. There is no scenario where ignoring the real truth is good for you. At best, delaying things or reaching the truth via indirect means is good for you (in that you were not good enough to reach it directly, but were also not evil enough to turn away from it completely...so eventually you turned to good)

But if you discovered that such was "Certainly real" what would you do?

I would kill myself. Do my best to opt out of existing. Where that is not an option, I would do my best to torment 'god'. What else could possibly satisfy me? Imagine being good to someone, and then that someone being unappreciative of you whilst trying to take everything from you. You would surely torment them to satisfy yourself.

Perhaps 'god' tells me that harming innocent people results in heaven for me. Literally a case of being evil being good for me or it being good to be evil, as opposed to it being evil to be evil and it being perfect to be perfect. I'd like to think I would taunt 'god' for being absurd and warn him of God, but I don't know how sincere I am to reason and God/Truth.

[obsrvr524]

You keep saying that but what is the reasoning behind it?

The reasoning behind Existence Being Perfect is that its rejection is paradoxical. See the thread on Omnipotence (the one where I'm in discussion with Sil) for my reasoning on this.

No. That isn't what I asked. You said that it is absurd to think that knowing the real truth is unwise because real truth is "perfect". How did you get from Existence being perfect to it being absurd for us to not learn of it?

So lets supposed just a hypothetical example of what might be that prefect truth just to make a point. God comes to you and makes it clear to you that the following is the real perfect truth -

Your struggle in life is absolutely pointless. I will ensure that anything you try to accomplish will fail. You will suffer and gain nothing at all. You will eventually die and be totally forgotten - completely erased from all memory. Nothing you tried to do will survive either. Everything about you is just a temporary blip in the universe no different than a small unknown chemical reaction within an extremely distant star that didn't even add to the light.

What you say amounts to saying if our 'god' was imperfect and evil, what should we do?

No that is not what I said. I said that You cannot tell God what is or isn't perfect. If God is doing it, we can assume whatever it is, is perfect. But we cannot judge God - that is kind of silly. We do not know what "perfect" really means in the real universe. You like to think it is filled with love, passion, and kindness - but what if the real truth is that it is not?

We should try and kill ourselves if we could so that we could avoid him/her.

So to avoid suffering in vain, we kill ourselves - in vain?

It is meaningless for us to engage in that 'hypothetical' because it is not a true hypothetical. It is an absurdity. No meaningful points can be made from it just as no meaningful points can be made from considering the 'hypothetical' of what if Existence did not exist. Or what if there was a circle that was not actually round. Or what if science observed something coming from nothing.

You are making a strawman false analogy based on your own assumption that you know what perfection looks like. Yet you have admitted many times that you cannot conceive of it.

But if you discovered that such was "Certainly real" what would you do?

I would kill myself.

So you are saying that it is possible (since we do not know) that it really is unwise to know real truth? I understand that you believe that real truth is all loving, warm, and furry - but some extremely famous people have warned otherwise.

[Ecmandu]

Obsrvr,

You have to put everyone in their own reality.

That’s how you make everyone awesome.

It’s not a contradiction either. People can’t wrap their heads around the idea that EVERYONE can be god. Think about strange loops and holography here!

All of this is about eliminating the burden once and for all... achieving the great work.

As long as anyone is suffering, I can’t with 100% honesty say, “what a great day!”

My goal in life is to be able to say that honestly.

[Certainly real]

How did you get from Existence being perfect to it being absurd for us to not learn of it?

I said that You cannot tell God what is or isn't perfect.

This is true. God Tells us what's good and what's evil. When we have good intent and when we have evil intent. When we're being sincere/reasonable or insincere/unreasonable. What's perfect and what's imperfect. What's triangular and what's square. We are aware of these things. The 'hypothetical' you gave was clearly descriptive of an imperfect being. God Teaches me what is triangular and what is round. I cannot then say I don't know if x is round or triangular when I can clearly see that it is round, all in the name of I cannot tell God what is or isn't round.

If God is doing it, we can assume whatever it is, is perfect. But we cannot judge God

Yes I agree, but only in the following sense. If I see Christ getting crucified, I either conclude that Christ deserved this, or I conclude that God/Existence is imperfect. I am not Omniscient. I don't know Christ like God Knows Christ. But I know God Is Perfect. So I conclude Christ deserved it. But if some 'god' then turned around and said to me that Christ did not deserve to be crucified, yet I willed that he be crucified, I would then know that 'god' is not God and that God is probably waiting for 'god' to complete his transgression so that God would put 'god' in Hell. It is absurd for God to do imperfectly. Injustice is an imperfection.

At times, to us, it may be that the Lord works in mysterious ways. Our judgement should be that it's all perfection. It is silly for us to say I know better than God. But it is also silly for us to imply injustice or imperfection = perfection. Perfection will be better than what we can conceive. It will not be worse than that which no greater we can conceive of. Your words suggest the latter of the aforementioned two sentences is a hypothetical possibility. It is not.

So to avoid suffering in vain, we kill ourselves - in vain?

It's not in vain. It's to avoid evil. Although I have to change my answer. We should fight this 'god'. We should torment it. That is better than merely avoiding it.

You are making a strawman false analogy based on your own assumption that you know what perfection looks like. Yet you have admitted many times that you cannot conceive of it.

See above.

So you are saying that it is possible (since we do not know) that it really is unwise to know real truth? I understand that you believe that real truth is all loving, warm, and furry - but some extremely famous people have warned otherwise.

No. I don't think I ever said it really is unwise to know real truth. And no, I think Truth is Omnibenevolent towards good, but also Omnimalevoelnt towards evil (hence why Hell is not sugarcoated in scripture). Truth does not love evil. This is why it's evil for evil to be evil.

[phoneutria]

didn't read the whole thread
just the OP
but gotta say
the truth fucking matters
everyone knows it
as evidenced by the fact
that you feel like shit when you're not being truthful

[Urwrongx1000]

Truth is not enough. And sometimes Lies win out, as we are seeing for the past few years.

The US political-right is not yet adapted to the violence, lies, corruption, and sheer hatred contained within the political-left.

If the right doesn't change its methods quickly, and utilize the evil strategies of the left, then the course will continue as it is, towards inevitable civil war.


The Right needs to take the lead the Left has presented. Only Evil can defeat Evil.

Just like it takes a thief to catch a thief.

[Urwrongx1000]

The Truth can no longer defend the political-right. I don't think enough people are aware of this fact yet.

It doesn't mean the political-left are in anyway truthful, obviously they're not, they're a party of lies.

But it doesn't mean Truth will win them over or achieve victories in the months and years to come.


The political-right need to begin utilizing the Lie. To get their own hands dirty, to join the fight in the mud.

This is not a fight that will be won on the "moral high ground" or on the high-horse.

[obsrvr524]

Only Evil can defeat Evil.

So become what you hate?

• The liberals did that to become the authoritarians.
• The Democrats did that to become socialists/authoritarians.
• Communists did that to become dictators.
• Catholics did that to become vindictive oppressors.

Now you suggest that the conservatives become lying, cheating authoritarians as well? - Become the evil in the name of Good?

It is seeming like authoritarianism is the way for everyone to be - just any means to oppress and crush the opposition.

Is this really as James said - "The Planet of the Apes in the Land of Lies with the Chimps in Charge" - Charlton Heston discovering the statue of liberty buried in the sand?

[Urwrongx1000]

What other choice is there?

I've already seen the tide turn. The Far Right is already radicalizing.



Consider this, the liberal-left-democrats, the Communists, beat, burned, looted, murdered the Right, the center of USA, the populace, the average citizen without penalty or consequence for an entire year.

How long while you're beating a person on the ground, repeatedly, calling him/her a "NAZI RACIST!" before that person submits, gives up, and accepts the label?

How bad a beating, until the person hated, attacked, sacrificed, accept the label given to them?



It's a psychological defeat. It's already happened, within the Right. The Left is creating the evil, hate, and demons that they fear the most. It's a self-projection.



A Self-Fulfilling Prophecy

They want Nazism to appear, even where it does not exist before. They want Fascism. They want Authoritarianism. It won't be long until the political Right obliges them, accepts the label, and then begins the next historical cycle. They are creating the demons they fear.

[Urwrongx1000]

Imagine you are one of the Communist-Democrats, BLM, Antifa... you are beating a Trump-supporters head into the ground. Slam, slam, slam, slam. You scream in rage "NAZI RACIIIIIIST!!!" How long until that Trump-supporter submits internally, losing consciousness, and accepting what the Left has burned into his/her mind? You can correctly assign the Cause to Leftists and Leftism. But they get what they want. The Right succumbs to the idea, the projection. Then the radicalization on the Right begins. It's already begun.

History repeating, is not a joke.

The Liberal/Left/Democrats/Communists are driven by pure emotion, pure hatred "Trump Derangement Syndrome", pawns of the MSM and Deep State. They believe they are "fighting Nazis", but what they are actually doing, in reality, in effect, is creating what they hate and fear, out of thin air. They forcing victims and innocent people into the "Fascism" they believe they are fighting against. But they are fighting for Fascism.

[Urwrongx1000]

Obsrvr I'm going to send you a private message of evidence and proof of this

[obsrvr524]

Obviously you're not Catholic (not that we needed this discussion for me to determine that).

How was the Egyptian Empire destroyed and entirely erased? - "dividing the waters" while the dividers stayed out of the ruckus. How was the Roman Empire destroyed and almost entirely erased? - the same way although a little slower - the Roman's had an advantage the Egyptians didn't have. How was the USA destroyed (and currently under erasure)? - can you guess? - the same way.

I'm not a war strategist but I can see that in order to defeat a would-be conqueror you have to be relatively impervious to his weapons while he is not so impervious to yours. You have to have something he doesn't have sufficient to compensate for what he does have. I can default to James' simple reductionist idea - "every war is determined by strategic momentum". In some way you have to be greater than your foe and know how to apply it (my interpretation).

If you both have the exact same weapons and ideas about how to use them - if there is no real difference between you - the larger, more numerous wins - that isn't you. Your conqueror was the globalists - the combination of all authoritarian nations and hidden corporate manipulators with a combined trillion dollar budget.

Now if you had the Presidency of the USA, the already established laws, and half of the population yet still didn't have sufficient momentum (admittedly the President was denied his eyes - the intelligence agencies), how would you expect to win after you lost the Presidency? You had already lost one bishop, your queen (SCOTUS), and both rooks (law enforcement). Your king was check mated (the censorship). You still have no queen or rooks - maybe a bishop left and millions of pawns. How do you continue from that point? - Start a new game? - not an easy or quick process. Merely setting up the board could take decades. And they are still in the process of erasing you entirely so there can't be a new game.

But we are straying too far from the topic of this thread even though the relevance of truth is core to any social strategy. Find out what weapons you have before you go into battle. Doesn't that seem reasonable?

All of this really belongs on The New Dark Age thread or the World at War thread.

You have said that truth is not relevant to the globalists. I am sure you are right about that.

But should it be relevant to you or us?