iambiguous wrote:MagsJ wrote:It is not an issue I think about much, but I do think that a certain set of circumstances should allow for an easier access to facilities, but those that have abortion after abortion after abortion should take stock of their lives and love lives. I was brought up in an environment where abortion was a sin, but they were being utilised in that environment regardless.
Still, my point is that this too appears to be but another manifestation of dasein derived from the particular life that you lived. And that, using the tools of philosophy, we seem unable to pin down how much time rational men and women
ought to spend thinking about it. Let alone that, after spending just the right amount of time doing it, they should think more like me instead of you.
I think that’s called non-interdependent lives and minds, in that we all have our own to live and think about, and if you want to spend a sizeable portion of that time thinking about specific things that is your prerogative.. interdependent minds, being more of an extroverted attribute. Would you say that
that is the case, with you?
What of all those who were "brought up" in very different sets of circumstances, resulting in very different points of view? Just as you may well have been brought up yourself in a very different set of circumstances had events in your own life gone in another direction.
Well quite, but the second the imminent wheels of one’s fate are set in motion, they are sealed.. I like to call them defining moments in time.
In fact, I see this the way I do because, adventitiously, my birthday alone resulted in my being drafted into the Army and sent to Vietnam. There events in my life could not possibly have been further removed from the life I lived before the Army. It changed everything.
A pivotal moment in time.. we all have them, they that shape our individual thoughts and feelings and make us who we are and who and what we shall become.
So, okay, I asked myself, how are events of this magnitude factored into the manner in which I came to see myself morally and politically? And how much of "I" went beyond them. Is there a "real me" still able to be in sync with the "right thing to do"? By, for example, reading the right philosophers some insist can provide us with an actual deontological foundation enabling us rationally to choose to do the right thing.
Read this, do that, go there, visit here.. to discern or not to discern, that is the self-questioning question.
I don’t like others telling me what to do, but I don’t mind suggestions on what to read, or where to visit, or sights to see, but not on things that one would come to rue.
For me, it's not what you think here but how all of the existential variables in your life predisposed you to think this instead of that. And, then, given this, is there a way [philosophically or otherwise] to factor out "I" as an "existential contraption rooted in dasein" in order to arrive at an obligatory objective moral assessment.
I'm not arguing that there isn't, only that "here and now" no one has managed to convince me of late that I was wrong to abandon objectivism myself
That’s a lot of external input that you are alluding to there.. I prefer to run on wit and whim, not the suggestions and proddings of others. Fuck that! ..again, your extroverted-leanings are showing. Introverts rarely form opinions and ideals, based on the input and advice of others, sure.. they’ll entertain those ideas, but act upon that which they instinctually feel and know is best for them.
No, I don't think that politics influences all of the decisions that we make. A woman becoming pregnant with a baby she does not want can become entangled in any number of circumstantial contexts in which politics has little or no impact at all. In fact she may choose any number of things from the point of conception in which no one but herself is even aware of it. But when she does make the decision to abort the baby/clump of cells [this rooted itself in dasein], she is confronted with options. And here in any particular legal jurisdiction around the globe, politics becomes profoundly important.
What will the government [sustained through politics] allow her to do? Why this and not that? How are the laws related to the conflicting moral assessments of those on all sides of the "abortion wars"? What ought the laws be in order to be in sync with the most rational frame of mind regarding abortion?
I see this as concerning those involved.. I don’t see it as anything to do with me, commenting on a topic, that has been discussed to death, here there and everywhere, and still the debate goes on, and people demonstrate and lobby outside pertinent buildings, until the end of eternity.. which is then never..
Yes, but these parents are no less embedded out in a particular world historically, culturally and circumstantially. Their own frames of mind here are no less entangled in the manner in which I have come to conclude we acquire [and then sustain] an identity in my signature threads.
Different parents, different lives, different experiences, different relationships, different information, knowledge, ideas and ideals.
Then what? What can the philosophers and the ethicists and the political scientists come up with to guide them down the most rational and virtuous path when they find themselves confronted with an unwanted pregnancy?
Are they children? No! they are adults, so need to be much more discerning in their daily lives.. responsibility of one’s actions wouldn’t go amiss either.
Btw.. you concluding in the manner in which we acquire [and then sustain] an identity (as outlined in your signature threads), is objective. Welcome back to the world of
ob-jec-tivity.
MagsJ wrote:I think the worse thing a woman can do is to abort out of spite, and a male.. to force a female to have an abortion, and then I can foresee other parties being called upon to make the other see sense.
And what might "seeing sense" entail for those who think differently? And how and why did they come to acquire one rendition of it rather than another? And how do they figure out the one and the only truly just path for both the pregnant woman and the unborn baby?
In that, what is the reason for not coming to term.. and that, is all. To have or not to have the baby, that is the question.. bar the reason why.