MagsJ wrote:We can imagine the possible.. actualIty, and the impossible.. illusory, insofar that the former can come to fruition, but the latter cannot.
The imagination/mind is the vehicle through which we traverse reality.. differentiating between possible/actualIty and impossible/illusory as we go along, or by forward-thinking a plausible outcome.
The Universe is said to have come from nothing, but perhaps the Universe is one big nothing that is full of things, a container.. perhaps we are self-contained, like a house or flat.
Nice post..
Meno_ wrote:Thanks. When will the day come when I can attribute all my mistakes to being bi lingual?
Anytime soon but I'm not holding my breath.
MagsJ wrote:Meno_ wrote:Thanks. When will the day come when I can attribute all my mistakes to being bi lingual?
Anytime soon but I'm not holding my breath.
One’s opposition doesn’t always make way or room for attributing mistakes, to what can only be seen as a(n) (unavoidable) flaw due to circumstance, in some.. i.e. you.
I had been finding the trans-Atlantic grammatical differences hindering, in fully being able to understand my US peers here, but I think I’ve managed to translate more correctly through repetition of dialoguing.
Certainly real wrote:3) We understand human and unicorn. Given 1-2, either p) humans/unicorns exist (necessity) or q) humans/unicorns can come into existence (possibility). With humans we know that both p and q are true. With unicorns we don't know if p is true, but we know that q is true because unicorns are hypothetically possible as opposed to hypothetically impossibile.
4) Like human and unicorn, we understand omnipotence (almightiness). Therefore either p*) something omnipotent exists (necessity) or q*) something omnipotent can come into existence (possibility)
Ecmandu wrote:I always say this to people:
Nobody gives a fuck about omniscience, omnipotence or omnipresence!
Even YOU certainly real!
The ONLY omnistate that anyone cares about is:
Omnibenevolence!
Ask yourself this question: “is my consent being violated in any way, shape or form?”
If you answer “no” to this, you are some sort of bizarre sadist or masochist - there are hells for people like this, where they will “tap out” or “cry uncle”...
If you answer “yes” to this, then you know omnibenevolence hasn’t been born yet!
Mad Man P wrote:It's logically possible that I have the power to shoot lasers out of my eyes, that the earth is flat or that narnia is a real place...
But it may well be impossible in reality for those things to be true or even become true.
The limits of reality and the rules that govern how it functions, whatever they may be, might not permit all that logic permits...
Certainly real wrote:You have in you the belief that the imagination is only limited by absurdities. If it's not absurd and it's not meaningless, you can imagine it. Yet when it comes to existence, you believe that existence is more limited. What justifies this belief?
Mad Man P wrote:Because I can imagine contradictory realities.
For example I can imagine a reality in which it's possible for me to shoot lasers out of my eyes by way of magic or other such supernatural power.
I can also imagine a reality in which no such forces exist, can exist or will ever exist... thus it would be impossible for me to shoot lasers out of my eyes, by such means.
This leaves me in a state of ignorance about which of these realities I occupy.
We can discuss what's reasonable to assume or infer from evidence but that's a different topic.
We do sometimes express this "not knowing" with the word "possible"... as in "it's possible that humans will one day build time machines" meaning "I have no idea if humans can build time machines"
But we also use that word to express things we DO know to be permitted in reality. Like "it's possible for humans to build cars" for example.
Equivocating between those two meanings is deceptive and logically unsound.
I would grant you omnipotence is "possible" in the sense of "I have no idea, but it's a coherent statement"... that is to say "logically possible"
[/quote]But that does not lend itself to any argument without it being an argument from ignorance...
What you require for your argument is the "we know it can happen" affirmation... the "real possibility" which is distinct from logical possibility.
Ecmandu wrote:I always say this to people:
Nobody gives a fuck about omniscience, omnipotence or omnipresence!
Even YOU certainly real!
The ONLY omnistate that anyone cares about is:
Omnibenevolence!
Ask yourself this question: “is my consent being violated in any way, shape or form?”
If you answer “no” to this, you are some sort of bizarre sadist or masochist - there are hells for people like this, where they will “tap out” or “cry uncle”...
If you answer “yes” to this, then you know omnibenevolence hasn’t been born yet!
Ecmandu wrote:Certainly real,
Even with free will it’s possible to never violate anyone’s consent forever.
When you stub your toe, did you decide that?
No. Was that your big plan for life that you worked up to?
von Rivers wrote:'Possibility' can refer to physical possibility, or logical/conceptual possibility. Physical possibility is a more narrow. (E.g., It is conceptually possible to imagine an apple that defies gravity and falls upwards, but that is physically impossible).
Premise #5 is extremely dubious, and weak, and problematic for you when you disambiguate 'possibility'. Assuming it was strong, it would support only the conclusion that "omnipotence" is "conceptually possible" but "physically impossible". But why would anyone want to support that conclusion
This is usually a problem with ontological arguments that start from premises about what you can conceive of. --They end with conclusions only about what you can conceive of, not what actually exists or doesn't.
Certainly real wrote:Like human and unicorn, we understand omnipotence (almightiness). Therefore
You can change omnipotence to true Perfection (God) and you will still get the same result.
Zeroeth Nature wrote:What, you just wanted to leave it at that? Show us you understand omnipotence (almightiness)!
Show us you understand true Perfection (God).
Certainly real wrote:Zeroeth Nature wrote:What, you just wanted to leave it at that? Show us you understand omnipotence (almightiness)!
That which can do all that is doable. That which can bring about all hypothetical possibilities. This is a semantical component of God/Existence/OmnipotenceShow us you understand true Perfection (God).
Perfection = that which no greater than can be conceived of. There is nothing better than a perfect existence. Your 'perfect' life is made better by existing in a perfect existence as opposed to an imperfect existence. Thus perfection is only true of a perfect existence and there is nothing better or greater than a perfect existence.
If an existence is such that not everyone gets what they truly/perfectly deserve, then that existence is imperfect. Only an Infinite, Omnipresent, Omnipotent, Omniscient, Omnibenevolent towards good, and Omnimalevolent towards evil Existence/God can guarantee that everyone gets what they truly/perfectly deserve (including Itself). Thus, Perfection is impossible without God/Existence.
Perfection = that which no greater than can be conceived of = a perfect existence = God existing
Perfection = a perfect existence = God existing
Perfection = God existing
God exists is a semantical component of Perfection just as being three sided is a semantical component of triangle.
A perfect existence is not perfect if it's not existing. Thus existing is a semantical component of Perfection.
Zeroeth Nature wrote:
And who says anyone deserves anything, by the way?
Certainly real wrote:Zeroeth Nature wrote:
And who says anyone deserves anything, by the way?
The semantics of Existence, Perfection, good, and evil. All semantics are the way they are because Existence is the way It is. We are in Existence and we have access to these semantics. Thus, Existence says good deserves good and evil deserves evil.
Zeroeth Nature wrote:Certainly real wrote:Zeroeth Nature wrote:
And who says anyone deserves anything, by the way?
The semantics of Existence, Perfection, good, and evil. All semantics are the way they are because Existence is the way It is. We are in Existence and we have access to these semantics. Thus, Existence says good deserves good and evil deserves evil.
That doesn't follow. Also, what do "good" and "evil" mean? Is there more to them than just empty semantics?
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