nihilism

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Re: nihilism

Postby Ecmandu » Tue Apr 20, 2021 8:44 pm

Dan~ wrote:There is destruction of meaning.
Then there is neutrality towards meaning.
Neutrality is different than anti.
I think a good nihilist will be as neutral as possible about everything.
Doing this will conserve so much mental energy that it will
change the character of the nothingist, on nearly every level.
It would be an experiment to apply nothingness to ourselves and all our mandatory meanings.
We would still eat, drink and go poo, but neutrality leads to idleness.
Idleness leads to refocus of the energy and self.
It centers a person and balances their energy.



Or as I’d like to say...

To much stimulus doesn’t allow the natural healing of the mind and spirit.
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Re: nihilism

Postby iambiguous » Tue Apr 20, 2021 10:11 pm

Dan~ wrote:There is destruction of meaning.
Then there is neutrality towards meaning.
Neutrality is different than anti.
I think a good nihilist will be as neutral as possible about everything.
Doing this will conserve so much mental energy that it will
change the character of the nothingist, on nearly every level.
It would be an experiment to apply nothingness to ourselves and all our mandatory meanings.
We would still eat, drink and go poo, but neutrality leads to idleness.
Idleness leads to refocus of the energy and self.
It centers a person and balances their energy.


We'll need an actual context of course.
He was like a man who wanted to change all; and could not; so burned with his impotence; and had only me, an infinitely small microcosm to convert or detest. John Fowles

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Re: nihilism

Postby Dan~ » Wed Apr 21, 2021 9:20 pm

iambiguous wrote:We'll need an actual context of course.

How can you even say that?
To me my post was plain as day.
No need to say any more.
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Re: nihilism

Postby iambiguous » Wed Apr 21, 2021 9:27 pm

Dan~ wrote:
iambiguous wrote:We'll need an actual context of course.

How can you even say that?
To me my post was plain as day.
No need to say any more.


You actually mean that, don't you?! 8)
He was like a man who wanted to change all; and could not; so burned with his impotence; and had only me, an infinitely small microcosm to convert or detest. John Fowles

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Re: nihilism

Postby iambiguous » Fri Apr 23, 2021 6:53 pm

Every once in a while the word nihilism will make an appearence in the news media.

Here's one I just came across at the New York Times:

"I can tell a story in which the Trumpians self-marginalize or exhaust themselves. Permanent catastrophism is hard. But apocalyptic pessimism has a tendency to deteriorate into nihilism, and people eventually turn to the strong man to salve the darkness and chaos inside themselves." David Brooks

Here's the "context": https://www.nytimes.com/2021/04/22/opin ... e=Homepage

An assessment of those right wing extremists "out there" basically intent on making Donald Trump America's first Führer.

But, again, I suspect that his use of the word revolves more around means than ends. The end, in other words, justifying any and all means.

On the other hand, there are those who don't make this distinction. Nazis and Communists and Anarchists -- all extremists -- are construed to be nihilists.

Just the opposite of my own subjective assessment. For moral and political nihilists of my ilk, all ends are interchangeable given the "psychology of objectivism" here: https://www.ilovephilosophy.com/viewtop ... 5&t=185296
He was like a man who wanted to change all; and could not; so burned with his impotence; and had only me, an infinitely small microcosm to convert or detest. John Fowles

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Re: nihilism

Postby iambiguous » Tue Apr 27, 2021 6:14 pm

Here's the latest intellectual contraption from Satyr:

satyr wrote: Nihilism fails only if it is applied in the real world.
If it remains theoretical - externalized only semiotically - linguistically - then it remains eternally superior, because the ideal always trumps the real, in theory.
If it dares to apply itself in reality it exposes itself to tis own delusion - its detachments from reality.
Reality always wins.


satyr wrote:Blah blah blah.


Again, all I can do is to challenge him -- or those who subscribe to whatever they think he means here -- to come to an agreement on a particular reality [set of circumstances] in which we can explore nihilism given the components of our own philosophies.

In particular as it relates to moral and political value judgments that come into conflict out in the real world.
He was like a man who wanted to change all; and could not; so burned with his impotence; and had only me, an infinitely small microcosm to convert or detest. John Fowles

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Then here: viewtopic.php?f=15&t=185296
And here: viewtopic.php?f=1&t=194382
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Re: nihilism

Postby iambiguous » Fri Apr 30, 2021 6:38 pm

In defense of Nihilism in the modern day
Ayush

The bad rep that surrounds nihilism can be credited to the Russian movement that was formed in the 1860s called the “Nihilist Movement”. It rejected all authorities and the Nihilists were known throughout Europe as proponents of the use of violence in order to bring about political change. This is what is responsible for the distorted idea of Nihilism that most people have.


In other words, the Capital N Nihilists. Whereas for me, as with Dasein, I prefer the lower case rendition. That way it can be attributed more to the existential parameters of the life that one lives rather than to some Philosophical Contraption in which Nihilism is Defined to Mean only what any particular Intellectual says it Means.

As though the Nihilist Movement and only the Nihilist Movement gets to decide who and what the authorities are and who or what is to be put in their place.

But even to call this "distorted" is to suppose that there is an understanding of it that is not distorted.

Now, moving on to define Nihilism. As Wikipedia puts it very tersely,
Nihilism is a philosophical stance which rejects the belief in one or more reputedly meaningful aspects of life.


One in particular given my own little "n" propensity: "I" in the is/ought world.

The part where a failure to agree on what either is or is not the right thing to do -- given the disjunction between what people say things mean and the inability to establish what they ought to mean -- results in actual dire consequences at times.
He was like a man who wanted to change all; and could not; so burned with his impotence; and had only me, an infinitely small microcosm to convert or detest. John Fowles

Start here: viewtopic.php?f=1&t=176529
Then here: viewtopic.php?f=15&t=185296
And here: viewtopic.php?f=1&t=194382
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Re: nihilism

Postby iambiguous » Tue May 04, 2021 11:11 pm

Unkown wrote:
Give a Man a Fish, and You Feed Him for a Day. Teach a Man To Fish, and You Feed Him for a Lifetime


satyr wrote:Nihilism doesn't want to teach men to fish - all is nil, meaningless, illusory - there are no fish, no lakes to fish in and no need, no hunger for them; all is logos; all is semiotics, theoretical, ideological - all is an idea.


See how he goes about it? He bitches about nihilists being only about the idea, the theoretical, the logos, the ideological, the social/memetic constructs.

It is as though he has the nihilist in his pocket. He pulls him out and says, "look everyone, I have the 'all is nil, meaningless and illusory' nihilist here".

As though anyone who dares to construe nihilism as anything other than in how he encompasses it up in the fluffy white clouds that are his own serial intellectual contraptions is necessarily wrong. By definition.

And, over and again, I challenge him to come here and defend the components of his own argument against the components of mine.

How about it, Satyr? Or anyone else there or here who defends his point of view. Let's agree on a particular set of circumstances and see what unfolds.

Here in the philosophy forum or over at Rant.
He was like a man who wanted to change all; and could not; so burned with his impotence; and had only me, an infinitely small microcosm to convert or detest. John Fowles

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Then here: viewtopic.php?f=15&t=185296
And here: viewtopic.php?f=1&t=194382
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Re: nihilism

Postby polishyouthgotipbanned » Wed May 05, 2021 2:56 am

Satyrs dick is so tiny he has to sit down to pee. He is a Canadian atheistic, hippie-inbred materialist too who has his own evolution, his own nihilism, his own history and his own pretty much everything else since he is a complete goon.
At the beginning there was only Chaos, Night, dark Erebus, and deep Tartarus. Earth, the air and heaven had no existence. Firstly, blackwinged Night laid a germless egg in the bosom of the infinite deeps of Erebus, and from this, after the revolution of long ages, sprang the graceful Eros with his glittering golden wings, swift as the whirlwinds of the tempest. He mated in deep Tartarus with dark Chaos, winged like himself, and thus hatched forth our race, which was the first to see the light. That of the Immortals did nove yielded themselves to their lovers when almost at the end of their youth, being led away by the gift of a quail, a waterfowl, a goose, or a cock.
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Re: nihilism

Postby Meno_ » Wed May 05, 2021 3:22 am

Removed for irrelevance.
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Re: nihilism

Postby encode_decode » Wed May 05, 2021 8:09 am

Meno_ wrote:Removed for irrelevance.

Me too!
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Re: nihilism

Postby MagsJ » Wed May 05, 2021 10:40 am

encode_decode wrote:
Meno_ wrote:Removed for irrelevance.

Me too!

Ha!
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Re: nihilism

Postby iambiguous » Sun May 09, 2021 6:34 pm

In defense of Nihilism in the modern day
Ayush

There’s more than one type of Nihilism! These are the most important three.
The Epistemological Nihilist is someone who believes that there is no true knowledge, you can never be sure of anything at all. To understand this, recognize the fact that you are forever stuck in your head and have access to the environment only via what your sense organs tell you.


The immediate objection here of course is that there does not appear to be a way in which to actually defend this other than from within the gap between what you think true knowledge is "in your head" here and now and all there is to be known about anything given an understanding of existence itself.

The Existential Nihilist is someone who denies that life has any inherent meaning or purpose. This is pretty straight forward. From the perspective of the universe, nothing has any value or purpose. Existence has no inherent essence.


Now this makes sense to me. But only because I myself have of late been unable to find any inherent meaning or purpose. On the other hand...

1] this does not exclude the possibility that they both do in fact exist given the gap between, well, you know.
2] the human condition is such that all that is necessary for there to be an inherent meaning and purpose to life is merely to believe that there is. After all, over the course of human history to date, there have already been countless hundreds of dogmas proposed. And some of which brutally enforced.

The Ethical Nihilist is a person who does not do what society says is ought to be done for just the sake of it. If there is no reason do something, no matter how much society might value doing it, an Ethical Nihilist will not do it. For the Ethical Nihilist, there are no inherent morals or values or “rules” that he/she has to follow. However, let me make no mistake, this does not mean that such a person is a violent, murderous animal. It simply means that a Nihilist is behaviorally immune to what others think. There is no moral fabric that encompasses the entire universe. Morality is an evolved, man-made construct.


Reconfigure the Ethical Nihilist into the moral nihilist and, here and now, there I am. Or, for you, here I am. Still, I seem to be propelling myself here in conflicted directions. My aim seems intent on either coming across an argument that is successful in deconstructing and then reconstructing my own current assumptions in the direction of an inherent meaning and purpose to life; or to deconstruct the inherent meaning and purpose of the objectivists among us so as to bring them closer to my own fractured and fragmented frame of mind. The search for another that I can at least share my own grim conclusions with. And actually be understood.

Alas, however, ILP has now been taken over -- more or less -- by the Kids and the fulminating fanatics. There are just fewer and fewer minds here that might be successful in at least challenging my own set of conclusions. Then this stuff:

MagsJ wrote:
encode_decode wrote:
Meno_ wrote:Removed for irrelevance.

Me too!

Ha!


Now I am more and more embedded in the ways of godot.
He was like a man who wanted to change all; and could not; so burned with his impotence; and had only me, an infinitely small microcosm to convert or detest. John Fowles

Start here: viewtopic.php?f=1&t=176529
Then here: viewtopic.php?f=15&t=185296
And here: viewtopic.php?f=1&t=194382
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Re: nihilism

Postby polishyouthgotipbanned » Sun May 09, 2021 6:47 pm

Define dasein.
At the beginning there was only Chaos, Night, dark Erebus, and deep Tartarus. Earth, the air and heaven had no existence. Firstly, blackwinged Night laid a germless egg in the bosom of the infinite deeps of Erebus, and from this, after the revolution of long ages, sprang the graceful Eros with his glittering golden wings, swift as the whirlwinds of the tempest. He mated in deep Tartarus with dark Chaos, winged like himself, and thus hatched forth our race, which was the first to see the light. That of the Immortals did nove yielded themselves to their lovers when almost at the end of their youth, being led away by the gift of a quail, a waterfowl, a goose, or a cock.
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Re: nihilism

Postby iambiguous » Sun May 09, 2021 7:02 pm

Alas, however, ILP has now been taken over -- more or less -- by the Kids and the fulminating fanatics. There are just fewer and fewer minds here that might be successful in at least challenging my own set of conclusions.


To witless:

polishyouthgotipbanned wrote:Define dasein.


Now, I have already done the "define dasein" bit with him. On this thread above or on another thread.

And, well, who knows how he will react to this, right? If it's just another of his caustic rants, I'll report it to Carleas. As, previously, I said I would if he goes off the deep end on one of my philosophy board threads.

Then it's "beyond my control".
He was like a man who wanted to change all; and could not; so burned with his impotence; and had only me, an infinitely small microcosm to convert or detest. John Fowles

Start here: viewtopic.php?f=1&t=176529
Then here: viewtopic.php?f=15&t=185296
And here: viewtopic.php?f=1&t=194382
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Re: nihilism

Postby Meno_ » Sun May 09, 2021 7:17 pm

And it is what's 'beyond Your control' is what entails The Wait for godot, that is a very weighted archytype.
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Re: nihilism

Postby polishyouthgotipbanned » Sun May 09, 2021 7:17 pm

You are lying through your teeth you kook, you never defined dasein. You are a waste of time like the kook SATIRE...shameless liar and hypocrite, impossible to deal with. show me where you define dasein please!!!
Last edited by polishyouthgotipbanned on Sun May 09, 2021 7:19 pm, edited 1 time in total.
At the beginning there was only Chaos, Night, dark Erebus, and deep Tartarus. Earth, the air and heaven had no existence. Firstly, blackwinged Night laid a germless egg in the bosom of the infinite deeps of Erebus, and from this, after the revolution of long ages, sprang the graceful Eros with his glittering golden wings, swift as the whirlwinds of the tempest. He mated in deep Tartarus with dark Chaos, winged like himself, and thus hatched forth our race, which was the first to see the light. That of the Immortals did nove yielded themselves to their lovers when almost at the end of their youth, being led away by the gift of a quail, a waterfowl, a goose, or a cock.
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Re: nihilism

Postby promethean75 » Sun May 09, 2021 7:19 pm

Bro. Do u know what a signature thread is. Biggs has signature threads he will gladly direct u toward like seventeen times.
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Re: nihilism

Postby polishyouthgotipbanned » Sun May 09, 2021 7:24 pm

so what? there is no definition of dasein in these threads...in fact...his first page of his first thread does not even talk about what dasein is at all...show me where he defines dasein,,,its not that hard is it???
At the beginning there was only Chaos, Night, dark Erebus, and deep Tartarus. Earth, the air and heaven had no existence. Firstly, blackwinged Night laid a germless egg in the bosom of the infinite deeps of Erebus, and from this, after the revolution of long ages, sprang the graceful Eros with his glittering golden wings, swift as the whirlwinds of the tempest. He mated in deep Tartarus with dark Chaos, winged like himself, and thus hatched forth our race, which was the first to see the light. That of the Immortals did nove yielded themselves to their lovers when almost at the end of their youth, being led away by the gift of a quail, a waterfowl, a goose, or a cock.
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Re: nihilism

Postby promethean75 » Sun May 09, 2021 7:27 pm

You haven't seen the story about the belly of the working class beast and stuff? Biggs, hit em with the threads bro.
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Re: nihilism

Postby Meno_ » Sun May 09, 2021 7:30 pm

References are a problem.
Like mistaken identity, and a definition can turn the simple into an obstruce complexity. But even kooks can define any idea into challenging and oft
contradictory allusions.

Which may be a good thing, ....

As long as opposing opinions are permitted ..to tolerate an excluded middle.
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Re: nihilism

Postby polishyouthgotipbanned » Sun May 09, 2021 7:30 pm

i once had a painful hemorrhoids on my anus from cycling too much...everytime I read biggie something itches me down there...no clue what it is though...
At the beginning there was only Chaos, Night, dark Erebus, and deep Tartarus. Earth, the air and heaven had no existence. Firstly, blackwinged Night laid a germless egg in the bosom of the infinite deeps of Erebus, and from this, after the revolution of long ages, sprang the graceful Eros with his glittering golden wings, swift as the whirlwinds of the tempest. He mated in deep Tartarus with dark Chaos, winged like himself, and thus hatched forth our race, which was the first to see the light. That of the Immortals did nove yielded themselves to their lovers when almost at the end of their youth, being led away by the gift of a quail, a waterfowl, a goose, or a cock.
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Re: nihilism

Postby iambiguous » Sun May 09, 2021 9:28 pm

promethean75 wrote:Bro. Do u know what a signature thread is. Biggs has signature threads he will gladly direct u toward like seventeen times.


promethean75 wrote:You haven't seen the story about the belly of the working class beast and stuff? Biggs, hit em with the threads bro.


Note to others:

Here is my own entirely subjective rooted-in-dasein assessment of promethean75.

And, indeed, the nihilism thread could not possibly more appropriate for it.

Now, back when he was zoots allure and, then, post prison, on his initial return here as promethean75, he would often post things that were more substantive in nature. Whether in regard to philosophy or politics, he had things to say that seemed to be well thought out and, well, dammit, substantial.

Sure, as with phoneutria, he was always quite capable of being -- playing? -- the smartass. And his wit [like hers] was often devastating. He nailed the pinheads here time and again. And I reveled in their combined forays. But, by and large, like her, if on the other side of the political spectrum, he still seemed more interested in diving out into the deep end of the philosophical pool.

Then something changed. Less and less would we be given the substantive posts and more and more bombarded with the bantering "social media" exchanges with those like Mr. Reasonable. Projecting to us more as the man every woman wants and every man wants to be. The really, really, "cool" dude. Motorcycles and bongs. Yes, the poop thread mentality we all know and love here at ILP.

Why? Forget about it.

How the fuck would I know? It would be like trying to figure out Carleas here of late.

Still, if I were to hazard an educated guess, I would suggest that it might revolve around this bit of irony: that he sees himself as more the true nihilist. His bantering chit-chat posts are actually his way of mocking those like me who still do feel inclined toward "substance" here. You know, if I really do believe that human interactions are essentially meaningless and absurd.

And I get that. Yes, I do recognize how, in fact, a larger and larger part of me is grateful to him for the reminder. But something still emanating up from out of my own existential rendition of dasein, won't allow me to just chuck it all.

Yet.

So, let's see what this all comes to. You know, on, say, this side of the grave? 8)
He was like a man who wanted to change all; and could not; so burned with his impotence; and had only me, an infinitely small microcosm to convert or detest. John Fowles

Start here: viewtopic.php?f=1&t=176529
Then here: viewtopic.php?f=15&t=185296
And here: viewtopic.php?f=1&t=194382
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Re: nihilism

Postby polishyouthgotipbanned » Sun May 09, 2021 9:42 pm

what a spook
At the beginning there was only Chaos, Night, dark Erebus, and deep Tartarus. Earth, the air and heaven had no existence. Firstly, blackwinged Night laid a germless egg in the bosom of the infinite deeps of Erebus, and from this, after the revolution of long ages, sprang the graceful Eros with his glittering golden wings, swift as the whirlwinds of the tempest. He mated in deep Tartarus with dark Chaos, winged like himself, and thus hatched forth our race, which was the first to see the light. That of the Immortals did nove yielded themselves to their lovers when almost at the end of their youth, being led away by the gift of a quail, a waterfowl, a goose, or a cock.
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Re: nihilism

Postby promethean75 » Sun May 09, 2021 11:46 pm

You've been doing a lot of spook busting recently, P-youth. I think u belong in the maxtrix with me.
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