Finale Occidentale

[waechter418]

Occidental civilization cultivates the myth that it is indefinitely progressing, but - in face of the increasing paranoia, avarice, corruption & disorientation of its subjects – it is definitely declining.

All civilizations do eventually disappear, be it through inner corruption, outer pressure or suicide. Corruption is foremost powered by ambition, envy & greed and manifests in the Occident and its dependencies as turbulent changes of personal & collective parameters, intoxication & consumption frenzies, sexual abbreviations, media saturations, political opportunism, escape cults and so on - as a matter of fact, most aspects of present Occidental civilizations can be seen as manifestations of weakness, disorientation and decay. And it seems to have suicidal tendencies as well, considering the zeal with which its citizens attack, rape, plunder & poison the organism that bears and feeds them.

Occidental civilisation developed in a linear time/space which reaches inevitable (at least since the beginning of Dualism) its own end. And then there is going to be an end of all beginnings and of all the abstructs that originate from this R/P relationship – since it is the relationship which determines a formation.

There is little known about the causes of the disappearances of other civilizations, probably due to the collective amnesia that usually comes in the wake of a catastrophe. However, the reasons of the decline of the Occident are largely known, dynamics and details are well researched and recorded – yet, be it due to lack of common sense, simple stupidity or genetic fuck-up, Sapiens carries on with business as usual attitude.
Nevertheless it would be unjust to blame Sapiens, after all he is but an epitome of Dualism and thus subject to a polarisation dynamic that increases (according to the dual-linear relativity of Dualism) at an exponential rate.

[promethean75]

what if 'civilizations' were just conceptual abstractions used to define and decribe collections of individuals and their various activities? if these collections and activities - however divided and estranged from each other they might be over distances - are always happening in some way or another, then 'civilization' has never ended. of course, a particular group in location x might have radically modified how it was arranged, but this change in structure does not mean a civilization has ended. the abstraction that this concept is used for is to confine a group of individuals to a certain particular social arrangement over a certain defined period of time, and declare 'this was something unique.'

in reality there is a continuum of organizing and reorganizing collections of individuals over vast periods of time. usually when someone evokes the term 'civilization', they are unknowingly idolizing some specific arrangement of individuals who practiced cultural idiosyncrasies they find favorable. the abstraction then becomes a kind of mythological symbol standing for a cause the idolizer wants to represent.

every thinker has a favorite period in history he likes to use as a kind of cardboard prop he can stand beside and declare 'these are my people'. to him, this is 'civilization proper', and any change in structure means for him a decline. but all this is in his head. first, he is no more related to those people than in sharing a few genes, and what culture he identifies with are nothing more than learned behaviors. behaviors that can just as easily be unlearned, or never learned to begin with.

it is through the gross abstraction of concepts like 'civilization', 'nation' and 'state' that people find comfort and purpose. in a way it's a substitution for immortality; one can believe they are an extension of some cultural history rather than just the carrier of similar chemical compounds (dna), and that they can live on through their offspring. they feel they are both the product of some investment as well as investors themselves. but this, too, is only in their heads. the individual has very little to do, except for a few historical contingencies, with from whom he came, or with who might come from him. essentially you have only a series of individuals all practicing and sharing the same belief in the abstraction itself.

but to be fair this kind of abstraction is one of the only things that provides any enduring meaning in life, and i see no real harm is doing so. well except for the conflicts that might result from group x who defend their abstraction of the state from group y that defend their abstraction of the state. a battle of abstractions, as it were.

[waechter418]

Civilisations are bound by “conceptual abstractions”, or one may say myths, that update themselves (sometimes during millennia).
Nothing wrong with living in collectives, nations, civilisations or worlds of make-beliefs, as long as they are not harmful to their members, i.e.: the individual.
(otherwise mass-incarceration/eradication can become justified)

[Fixed Cross]

On the other hand waetcher, the rape and plunder of the planet is done most of all by China. Considering what China is doing now as well as considering what non occidental cultures in general are coming up with, the west isn't actually doing do bad.

Sure we have a crisis, but hell will freeze over before any of these other cultures overtakes us in any significant respect.

A lot of our world is perishing but a lot is being born as well.

[Meno_]

Conceptual abstraction never disappear, the only become more or less mythical , in particular.
However, generally speaking, at times of crisis, the emerge from subversive levels of niceness, and subsequent levels can emote with less sequential logic.
This has been going on in legal-political circles since the beginning of the 20 th century, but with an ever increasing rate. In fact even the conceptual transvaluation of the mid 19 th century, which no re witness to the 1848 revolutions, can be interpreted as the harbinger of fun times ahead.
The loss of the Ancien Regime has still a lot of particularities to work out, otherwise there may come a grand rebound, breaking through barriers.

The lost Oriental Chinese Empire, has yet to even begin to understand the social reactive consciessness. That is why the great fissures are still ahead to be worked out, and Das Capital is only an echo of dissent there.

[waechter418]

On the other hand waetcher, the rape and plunder of the planet is done most of all by China. Considering what China is doing now as well as considering what non occidental cultures in general are coming up with, the west isn't actually doing do bad.

Sure we have a crisis, but hell will freeze over before any of these other cultures overtakes us in any significant respect.

A lot of our world is perishing but a lot is being born as well.

In the age of media & money globalisation, the disappearance of traditional values and the rapidly increasing numbers & instability of new ones, all cultures (and people) are threatened.
P.S. i do not doubt the recuperation capacity of our planet (mother nature) nor the survival of (some of) humankind, but i doubt latter to be an pleasant stroll.

[Meno_]

On the other hand waetcher, the rape and plunder of the planet is done most of all by China. Considering what China is doing now as well as considering what non occidental cultures in general are coming up with, the west isn't actually doing do bad.

Sure we have a crisis, but hell will freeze over before any of these other cultures overtakes us in any significant respect.

A lot of our world is perishing but a lot is being born as well.

In the age of media & money globalisation, the disappearance of traditional values and the rapidly increasing numbers & instability of new ones, all cultures (and people) are threatened.
P.S. i do not doubt the recuperation capacity of our planet (mother nature) nor the survival of (some of) humankind, but i doubt latter to be an pleasant stroll.

It can be if You remember how!

[waechter418]

On the other hand waetcher, the rape and plunder of the planet is done most of all by China. Considering what China is doing now as well as considering what non occidental cultures in general are coming up with, the west isn't actually doing do bad.

Sure we have a crisis, but hell will freeze over before any of these other cultures overtakes us in any significant respect.

A lot of our world is perishing but a lot is being born as well.

In the age of media & money globalisation, the disappearance of traditional values and the rapidly increasing numbers & instability of new ones, all cultures (and people) are threatened.
P.S. i do not doubt the recuperation capacity of our planet (mother nature) nor the survival of (some of) humankind, but i doubt latter to be an pleasant stroll.

It can be if You remember how!

I do - and try to communicate it

[Meno_]

You do, but most can not.
And this is supposed to be a democracy!

[waechter418]

You do, but most can not.
And this is supposed to be a democracy!

another myth