Determinism

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Re: Determinism

Postby iambiguous » Tue Nov 03, 2020 8:58 pm

obsrvr524 wrote:
iambiguous wrote:There’s No Such Thing as Free Will.

Then you must not be free to say that.


Look, Kid, iambiguous didn't say that. Stephen Cave did when he created a title for his article.

And, unlike you and James S. Saint, who actually take pride in having freely chosen to post the didactic [pedantic] objectivist dogmas that you and he pedaled/pedal here, I flat out admit that I have no capacity to demonstrate my own autonomy.

Now, how about a youtube video? :lol:
He was like a man who wanted to change all; and could not; so burned with his impotence; and had only me, an infinitely small microcosm to convert or detest. John Fowles

Start here: viewtopic.php?f=1&t=176529
Then here: viewtopic.php?f=15&t=185296
And here: viewtopic.php?f=1&t=194382

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Re: Determinism

Postby obsrvr524 » Tue Nov 03, 2020 9:10 pm

iambiguous wrote:
obsrvr524 wrote:
iambiguous wrote:There’s No Such Thing as Free Will.

Then you must not be free to say that.


Look, Kid, iambiguous didn't say that. Stephen Cave did when he created a title for his article.

The quote has your name on it.

iambiguous wrote:And, unlike you and James S. Saint, who actually take pride in having freely chosen to post the didactic [pedantic] objectivist dogmas that you and he pedaled/pedal here, I flat out admit that I have no capacity to demonstrate my own autonomy.

And yet you do nothing else.
              You have been observed.
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Re: Determinism

Postby iambiguous » Tue Nov 03, 2020 9:26 pm

iambiguous wrote:And, unlike you and James S. Saint, who actually take pride in having freely chosen to post the didactic [pedantic] objectivist dogmas that you and he pedaled/pedal here, I flat out admit that I have no capacity to demonstrate my own autonomy.


obsrvr524 wrote:And yet you do nothing else.


Look, Kid, there's no way in hell that I'd expect someone of your ilk to grasp the points that someone of my ilk is making here.

Just suffice it to say that if you're lucky you really don't have any choice but to post what you do. And, if I'm lucky, I am compelled by the laws of nature to read your crap. :wink:
He was like a man who wanted to change all; and could not; so burned with his impotence; and had only me, an infinitely small microcosm to convert or detest. John Fowles

Start here: viewtopic.php?f=1&t=176529
Then here: viewtopic.php?f=15&t=185296
And here: viewtopic.php?f=1&t=194382

tiny nietzsche: what's something that isn't nothing, but still feels like nothing?
iambiguous: a post from Pedro?
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Re: Determinism

Postby Ecmandu » Tue Nov 03, 2020 10:04 pm

Iambiguous,

It’s quite simple. If freedom doesn’t exist in any way shape or form; it’s logically impossible to hypothetically suppose it.

This means that freedom necessarily exists in some way, shape or form. That form may not be appreciated right now (Not what we want it to be) by us in the way we want it to be, but it does exist.

You cannot refute that.
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Re: Determinism

Postby iambiguous » Sun Nov 15, 2020 7:13 pm

There’s No Such Thing as Free Will
But we’re better off believing in it anyway.
Stephen Cave in The Atlantic

In recent decades, research on the inner workings of the brain has helped to resolve the nature-nurture debate—and has dealt a further blow to the idea of free will. Brain scanners have enabled us to peer inside a living person’s skull, revealing intricate networks of neurons and allowing scientists to reach broad agreement that these networks are shaped by both genes and environment. But there is also agreement in the scientific community that the firing of neurons determines not just some or most but all of our thoughts, hopes, memories, and dreams.


Uh-oh?

Right, like this settles it. Consider: if, out of the blue, I type, "the green hornet on Maple street stole the only copy of the document definitively establishing the Christian God as in fact the Devil", was that only as a result of whatever set into motion the laws of matter going back to...where and when exactly?


We know that changes to brain chemistry can alter behavior—otherwise neither alcohol nor antipsychotics would have their desired effects. The same holds true for brain structure: Cases of ordinary adults becoming murderers or pedophiles after developing a brain tumor demonstrate how dependent we are on the physical properties of our gray stuff.


Then it ever and always comes down to how far this can be taken. Up to and including everything we think, feel, say and do? After all, look at all of those who are afflicted with brain tumors that don't become murderers and pedophiles. And what becomes particularly unnerving for most is the idea that they are themselves murderers and pedophiles...but it's all beyond their control. Unless of course you think it is all in your control and you murder someone or rape a child and someone comes along and tells you that you aren't really responsible because there is no way you could have not murdered someone or raped a child.

Clearly, this gets all tangled up in what we think we know and what we'd like to to believe is so given a particular set of circumstances.
He was like a man who wanted to change all; and could not; so burned with his impotence; and had only me, an infinitely small microcosm to convert or detest. John Fowles

Start here: viewtopic.php?f=1&t=176529
Then here: viewtopic.php?f=15&t=185296
And here: viewtopic.php?f=1&t=194382

tiny nietzsche: what's something that isn't nothing, but still feels like nothing?
iambiguous: a post from Pedro?
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Re: Determinism

Postby iambiguous » Fri Nov 20, 2020 2:38 am

Gamer wrote:If we hold that the universe is deterministic and free will is a non-starter, then shouldn’t we be a bit more mindful of the role luck plays in well-being?

And if that’s the case, why do we lack compassion when we see people struggle; why do we blame them for their moral failings, stupidity, or lack of hard work?


Again, this rendition of it!

We hold that, "the universe is deterministic and free will is a non-starter", and then ask if we should be a bit more mindful of luck, as though anything that we are mindful of here is not also embedded inherently, necessarily in a wholly determined universe!!

Look, I'll admit I'm just not thinking this through correctly, but if "I" is derived from a mind that is derived from a brain that is no less matter wholly in sync with the immutable laws of matter, being mindful about anything is only what we were ever able to be mindful of.

Right?
He was like a man who wanted to change all; and could not; so burned with his impotence; and had only me, an infinitely small microcosm to convert or detest. John Fowles

Start here: viewtopic.php?f=1&t=176529
Then here: viewtopic.php?f=15&t=185296
And here: viewtopic.php?f=1&t=194382

tiny nietzsche: what's something that isn't nothing, but still feels like nothing?
iambiguous: a post from Pedro?
User avatar
iambiguous
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Posts: 38466
Joined: Tue Nov 16, 2010 8:03 pm
Location: baltimore maryland

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