No limits?

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No limits?

Postby Githa » Fri Aug 16, 2002 7:10 pm

"The limits to your activity (life) are to be found within the parameters of your mind" -so said a friend of mine.
Are our minds really above all the limits, confines, boundaries, restrictions etc. that we are faced with?
By expanding the parameters of our minds are our limits eased? I'm sure they are in some cases but don't other factors reinforce these limits? what about consequences, do they not cause us to not do the act?

I hate stupid limits, but I realise that they are there perhaps to not have another person infringe on the bit of space you may have to breathe and live. I'm being driven to think that the only way having limits would be a bad thing is if you were the only one living and ugh, then it would be pointless. I lost where that thought was going, I hate distractions as well. anyway...
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Postby BluTGI » Sat Aug 17, 2002 3:01 am

while the mind does have changable boundaries and i agree that one can live better if we expand our mental boundaries. But the boudaries are not ever expandble. the expansion of those mental boundaries should only be limited simply by our mortality.
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Postby Magius » Sat Aug 17, 2002 4:06 am

BluTGI staed:
But the boudaries are not ever expandble. the expansion of those mental boundaries should only be limited simply by our mortality.


The statement you made holds the assumption that you know the limits of the mind, otherwise how do you know that it is not ever expandable? If you know the limits, than what are they?

Why <b>should</b> our mental boundaries be limited by our mortality? Do you think that the soul has nothing to do with our mental capacities? How would you say the soul plays into mortality?

That which is mortal is subject to death. What does death have to do with our mental boundaries? Is there a mental boundary that when reached we die, hence we cannot exceed it?

Your thoughts...
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Postby light2468 » Sat Aug 17, 2002 4:41 am

Like fire can't burn fire, we have to constantly remind ourselves of things. Sometimes, the only way to do that is to become more complex. If no one understands us though, we comit a form of social suicide.

I've found we should hang with people we like, but we should remember inside we have our bounds and worries, and we have to remind ourselves that we may like them, but they may have other intentions.

It's what science calls Relativity, Quantum Supopsition, The Uncertainty theory. It's all about the same. As a people, we may be able to come to a point where we know something about ourselves, but somthings are better left unsaid.
Life's mysteries are not problems to be solved, but a reality to be experienced.
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Postby BluTGI » Sat Aug 17, 2002 7:40 pm

the mind can not escape death. the mind and any power it has is limited by death. aspects of the mind are not limited (except for death's limit) Imagination runs as long as the mind does. Telapaths, empaths and other words assosiated with those using the power of their mind to affect physical things are limited by death. but other than the limit of death the power and potential a person has is set by themselves. they expand it at their own risk, or desire. yet all men live knowing to die.

and light is right. i can make my mind not feel pain if i train myself to do so. but my hand will still burn and cook in flame. thats the physical reaction of flesh to the heat produced by the flame. though the metal and physical reaction to the action off flesh being burned is controlable.

If i burn my finger i can let it continue to cook and stop feeling the pain, or yank it from the heat's reach jump and yell about it being hot and treat the burn. but i can not control what dammage the flame does.
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Postby locke_key » Thu Aug 22, 2002 5:56 pm

well, since our brain is organic, it started to die the day we were born. but the expansion would be growth would it not? and that is very possible. however we hinder that growth, being part of the social instituitions that we are nearly forced to be a part of...
but i can not control what dammage the flame does.

on the contrary, you do control the damage. because you can control the amount of exposure. take that to a broader spectrum, equate the flame to something else, your environment, not only your physical surrounds but every thing else therin...

that too burns on our minds as the flame does to your hand. we have some choice of exposure, even though usually it isnt always a conscience decsission...
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Postby Cerberus » Fri Aug 23, 2002 12:14 am

There can be no limits, those we have are applied by ourselves, or by our bodies. Becuase as animals we need those limits to survive however we progress and become less like animals. Less and less we are run by our bodies drives.
Why should it be that we couldnt put our hands in the flames and not just not feel the flames but not be harmed by those flames. All pain is is a message, a warning. Yet like a fire alarm or burgular alarm they can be ignored.
But all heat is is energy, what limits us from converting that energy into another form? A form the doesnt harm us. Is gravity a rule? a limit?
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Postby BluTGI » Fri Aug 23, 2002 4:37 am

the reason we cant turn that heat into something else, is simply because of chemical reactions that result when skin cells are exposed to too much heat.
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Postby Cerberus » Fri Aug 23, 2002 10:31 am

So it all boils down to the chemical the physical? Then why is is that we are having this conversation? Why is it that we are thinking about this? What chemicals cause us to do this?
And besides u didnt even argue the point, we cant turn heat into something else because heat cause a chemical reaction that burns our skin, thats not saying why we cant turn heat energy into another or even disperse that energy, thats saying why heat does burn us.
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Postby BluTGI » Fri Aug 23, 2002 1:48 pm

well your right living in the south there is a old tradition of fire talkers. who would take the heat out of skin just by rubbing and talking.

BUT its been YEARS since ive even heard of this being done. this tradition is fading out. but they didnt take heat from flame and disperce it they took it from the skin. So even with this tradition in mind out of the billions of people on this planet none of them have come forth with their ability to disperce heat. Fire walkers are the close but they have tricks like using coals, and the coals being really porus(pourus) so they dont burn the feet.

So to sum it up so many billion people none have come forth with this mutation of flame dispersing, and to add up out of all the people that have existed i have yet to hear even avatar's doing this. If it could be done it would have been told by somebody some how. unless they wanted to keep it quite, and who would blaim them if they did. SO if nobody can do it, that tells me i shouldn't try. but if you want to donate skin so i can that would be great.
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Postby Cerberus » Fri Aug 23, 2002 4:31 pm

SO basically what ur saying is that something that hasnt happened yet is impossible. I didnt mean it as turnign heat into another form of energy is happening or can happen.
Its a metaphor, and ur proving what im trying to say well, u have set limits on this being possible yet u do not and cannot know that this is or will be possible.
You have set that limit and untill u break free of that limit it will be impossible for u. Until u are shown that this is possible then u will not be able to do it, is that what ur saying.
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Postby BluTGI » Sat Aug 24, 2002 3:42 am

No im being realistic. In a world with physical limits. I simply say that the body is mortal thus it suffers from death.

Then we went with the flame thing. Which i tried to state that you cant stop the reaction because the mortal body is fragile. No where in any book or teaching of anybody who has supposedly expanded their mind and powers has a man(or woman for the matter of facts) have escaped the problem of a mortal body.

If you think you can escape the body's limit then you need to get help or just go ahead and try it.

Plus if it were possible wouldnt at least 1 person have done it by now? i dont mean since yesterday i mean since man has been civilized and written things down. No where in the history books has 1 man/woman come forth and said ive expanded my mind beyond physical limits. Nor has any AVATAR(having a aspect of a GOD or being a aspect of a GOD) come forth and NOT suffered a mortal death.
Jesus: Died on a cross by the blow of a staff weapon
Budah: Died
Allah: i'm sure he died,

So if these supposed people were as they say they were why didnt they esape their mortal death? Because the body is a physical thing, physical things are affected by other physical things. thats why they are "physical" sorta reminds me of the word physics. im sure there related for a reason.

Now the Brain also has a Physical aspect. It Too is Mortal. it is a organ made of tissue, which is made of cells. which are made of macro-molecules and then molecules, then elements, then Atoms. now a rock i also made of atoms, elements, molecules, macro-molecules.

Thus Despite any limit you may belive in as long as you are human, you are mortal thus even if you expand your brain to use all of its resources you can not stop death let alone flame.
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Postby Cerberus » Sat Aug 24, 2002 3:09 pm

Ur just making the same argument again, and still limiting urself and others by what ur saying. Yeah limits this is what it is about. No one will ever be able to escape death or flame while they still limit themselves.
And all these arguments u are making outright, so u know everything. And what u know is that everything is in the physical. And we will never escape that. Then we are a crappy race and no better than any other animals.
And we are not having this talk because the limits implied on our physical form have no need for this talk.
And we will never get off this planet because gravity is a limit.
So we will never evolve, evolution didnt happen is what u are saying...because it didnt happen before it isnt ever gonna happen. Good argument that...
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Postby cba1067950 » Mon Aug 26, 2002 7:19 am

Well figuring that there is limits to physical ability I'd assume that there is a limit on your mental ability. I mean a 4th dimension is beyond us and will probably never be understood without the help of some sort of machine. That's assuming they exist. Another impossibility I figure is to think what someone else is thinking. Then there are illusions that are created by our physical bodys that we can't see past such as the concept of time which some people don't believe exist. I think I'm misunderstanding something though.
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Postby BluTGI » Mon Aug 26, 2002 5:36 pm

Now lets discuss your argument.

In what way shape or manner can I escape death or the flame?

If you knew you wouldn’t be here discussing the relativity of it. You would be doing it for money in some parlor.

In what way shape or manner can I turn Heat into another thing?

You can’t that’s borderline alchemy, Do you still believe in magic? if so I’m still waiting for gold from led. I mean it’s simply a thing isn’t it? It would be easier for me to change man's view of LED and make society worship it over gold. I could do this before you could turn a bar of led into a bar of gold.

In what way shape or manner can I expand my mind?

I doubt you know this simply because if you did, you would know how to write a book on doing it then sell the book for millions.

In what way shape or manner can I stay ME if i live with out limits?

You can’t remain the same and still change. A MORTAL MAN can not escape death because if he does then he is no longer a MORTAL MAN. He is a IMORTAL MAN. Whole new bracket. This is probably the part of my argument your not getting.

But if you would be so nice as to tell me im wrong and give me solutions or working ways to expand my mind, change heat, and live with out limits. Id be verry apreaciative seeing as how no other human has with out entering into religion.

As for Evolution and earth being crappy start the post ill be there. No reason to muddle these mulded waters with another topic.
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Postby locke_key » Mon Aug 26, 2002 8:41 pm

You can’t remain the same and still change.


well, does that mean with each new experiance, each new thought that you are not the same?
we are all making the same assumptions aswell, does mind "expansion" really have to be so drastic? what does that expansion really entail?
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Postby BluTGI » Mon Aug 26, 2002 9:09 pm

IF a drunk sobers up he is no longer a drunk. he is a former drunk.
If a man has a thought he is no longer thoughtless.

Ask a man who recently gets married to a woman he just met because they had a twirling romance in those few hours/days, if he still loves his ex girlfriend/boyfriend

So people change every second. But these changes are not big enough. Sure their whole lives are affected but not on a universal time continuum kind of thing. They still fear death or pain or loss.

They have proven Light actually speeds up or slows down, it does not remain constant, but this change is over such a drastic period it is only relative to Planets and the creation of the universe, everything else it would not fit in.

So I state that if a man falls in love the amount of change is little thus he really hasn’t changed at all. But if he:
becomes god like,
lives beyond the limit of death,
or does anything as such that change would be big enough to move him so far away from his former self that the only relation from his previous self to the one he is now, is by either Name, or the word Was. " I was him in another life time" kind of deal
Then he has become somebody/thing else while he may be similar enough to his former self but he could not return to his former self.

4 factors affect the judgment of change
Time: how long did it take?
Power: how much power does this result to?
Reversal: Is the change permanent, or if he wanted to could he go back to the way he was could he?
Corruption: Is the power too much for him to handle with out changing again?

You ask if mind expansion is really that drastic, well it would have to be to make the person beyond the limit of death or the problems of living in a physical world.
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Postby locke_key » Tue Aug 27, 2002 12:15 am

let me expand on what i meant, im sorry my earlier post was a little hasty (im at work).
we are all making the same assumptions aswell, does mind "expansion" really have to be so drastic? what does that expansion really entail?

the assumptions that are being made: is that mind "expansion" would directly affect the physical, or that it would be something completely recognizable...

my point is simply that usually when we are enlightened, or we have breached our own personal limits, we aren't necesarily aware of it.
4 factors affect the judgment of change
Time: how long did it take?
Power: how much power does this result to?
Reversal: Is the change permanent, or if he wanted to could he go back to the way he was could he?
Corruption: Is the power too much for him to handle with out changing again?

permanent, what would make a change permanent? see, here is a though, it is difficult to see change as an ongoing process. in our minds, it seems that we tend to think in one extreme or the other. we can only choose a point of "time" to look at a person or object and observe that. the next time we observe it there will be some kind of "change" whether we see that significant or not.

i dont really see how corruption fits into this picture, change doesn't always bring power...
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Postby BluTGI » Tue Aug 27, 2002 4:53 pm

Your right the person would not recognize the change. But if the chance is big enough i think they would simply because they would be the one bringing it about.

As for coruption. Well in most cases thats a result of a result from the inital change. we can use it to judge the change to see how much the change amounted to. Not everybody is going to be corrupted so perhaps that isnt the best judge for all situations, but it is still a factor in Most sitatuons
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Postby Cerberus » Wed Aug 28, 2002 6:06 pm

Is this philosophy or an argument about science? You need facts well i havent got em. And if i did i wouldnt write a book about em and sell it for millions.
All people would turn out a lot better if they found their own way through problems. Your a scientist not a philopsher and so all your views are based on facts. Philospohy is an educated guess on something.
You are arguing the view of a scientist and yet you havent facts. Death is a philosophical point because there is no way we can prove or disprove anything happens beyond it.
Im trying to get you to see my point that i agree with the friend of the person who set this discussion. And you are saying that yes we can break limits but we cannot break limits. Yes we can push limits back but no we cannot push limits back.
If a man can change a little then he can change a lot. And no i cannot prove this to you nor can i show you loads of people you can follow. You are following the flock.
Why not think for yourself instead of relying on what others have proven and told you. Or at least if u want to take the view of a scientist, act like one. Experiment and get more knowledge.
And is the recognition of a change more important than that change?
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Postby locke_key » Wed Aug 28, 2002 8:14 pm

since i dont really have the time to isolate myself in a cave so i can decide whether i really exist or not, i will trust some of the accepted rules that our scientist brothers have given us. that does not mean that i dont reflect on or question it... and by no means am i following a flock

i will consult my companion "webster" for this argument...
philosophy 1. n., a. A logical and critical study of the source and nature of human knowlege. b. A formal system of ideas based on such a study. 2. The sciences and liberal arts with exception of law, medicine, and theology<a doctor of philosophy>


ok Cerberus, the kind of philosophy you talk of doesnt even require the use of discussion. i think you should see the fine lined equilibrium.
All people would turn out a lot better if they found their own way through problems. Your a scientist not a philopsher and so all your views are based on facts. Philospohy is an educated guess on something.

what? even though history tends to repeat itself, it is pertinent to at least try not to make the same mistakes over and over... the sounds like antisocailism. my friend, we are social creatures and we do need the communication.
you are refering to scientism, and my thoughts are far from that method of belief. and no not all of my views are based on fact, or necesarily the socially accepted truths in my culture.
i think you need to elaborate on what you think what philosophy is, and no, not all scientists do "experiments."

i do see where you are coming from however, and you do have a point.
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Postby BluTGI » Wed Aug 28, 2002 8:39 pm

thx L&Key but i think most of the sharper points were aimed at me.

Im gona answer your MOST IMPORTANT thing you said in that post, the most thought provoking thing first.

And is the recognition of a change more important than that change?


Id say yes, the Recognition would define the change. BUT the recognition can not happen with out the change. Its like a drunk, he wont start sobering up till he hits rock bottem, You supposedly hit rock bottem by recognising what has happend in your life and recognising it is wrong before you can change it. So its like a cause and effect that causes its self. Which came first the recognition or the change?



As for Science vs Philsophy. Well thats such a fine line and your not paying attention to it. Science is right 75% of the time. Philosophy is right the other 25% (when they disagree) but they are normally right 100% when they agree.

NOW. Why do i deny the fact that you can put your hand through a flame? (well since you called me a scientist) if you put your hand in it 100x it will burn you depending on the lenghth of time in the flame 100x. Yes I follow the flock in this subject, Because I know with out experimentation that i will burn if i put my hand in a flame. That is common sense.

As for Limits. A MAN is limited by death. a GOD has no limits. A man Philisophicaly COULD become a GOD. But he would not be a MAN he would be a GOD. The question is will he still be affected by his development as a man? will he still like chicks, like pizza, dislike his dislikes and like his likes.

IF a man expanded his mind, he would no longer be a NORMAL man. He would live in a whole new set of variables. But If he can die then his limit is till death.

Can we break physical limits Yes it is Possible, WILL we? doubt it.
Can we Change? Yes its possible, WILL we? doubt it.
Can somebody expand their mind so they have no limits? Yes its probable. Will I be able to do it tomarrow? Doubt it.
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