Overcoming Abraham

[HumAnIze]

Knowing vs believing? That isnt even the issue, that is a strawman. You already admitted you BELIEVE Jesus isn't real, and yet you claim he is your God. What does that say about you? A lot more than some obscure epistemological factoid.

Keep coping bro, you are transparent. Go back to daddy maybe he will still love you

[PolandYoung]

you are one autistic dolt hahahaha the phrase 'I HONESTLY DO NOT BELIEVE' is not literal moron...whats wrong with you????
i already know... do you take chairs home after being told to have a sit at the dentist???
my sentence is non literal...it means something like if i were to wager my bets on whether jesus really existed, knowing what i know, id wage he did not...
hope that helped, though much more helped will be needed for a native enlgish speaker who cant decipher commonsensical, everyday english phrases and sentences.

[HumAnIze]

tldr sorry idiot

cope harder

[Ichthus77]

I honestly think Jesus never existed. It is not highly relevant eitherway...you could start considering Jesus as an imaginary figure and it would change nothing...

Is that your answer to why you are a Christian? For me… if I believed that… it would be my answer to why I am *not* a Christian… except I would never say that Jesus is an imaginary figure that never existed, because it flies in the face of the historical data, & you’d have to throw out a *lot* of other history in the process.

So, why *are* you a Christian?

You seem to disagree with Paul that if nothing grounds our faith … we are most to be pitied.

1 Corinthians 15:12-19

12 But if it is preached that Christ has been raised from the dead, how can some of you say that there is no resurrection of the dead? 13 If there is no resurrection of the dead, then not even Christ has been raised. 14 And if Christ has not been raised, our preaching is useless and so is your faith. 15 More than that, we are then found to be false witnesses about God, for we have testified about God that he raised Christ from the dead. But he did not raise him if in fact the dead are not raised. 16 For if the dead are not raised, then Christ has not been raised either. 17 And if Christ has not been raised, your faith is futile; you are still in your sins. 18 Then those also who have fallen asleep in Christ are lost. 19 If only for this life we have hope in Christ, we are of all people most to be pitied.

(Sidenote: Hope in this life is good… but if you want it to go on forever & have been preaching such the whole time… it’s like the mad scientists who promise the same thing but cannot fully deliver…without a catch.)

(Second sidenote: The cross was not a magic trick, but a demonstration without which eternal self=other love is not a choice… now, or ever.)

[Ichthus77]

I don’t have to refer to your book to be who I am.

The singularity.

Your book is standard theology. Always about sacrifice. War makes peace. You’re a primitive people.

How do *you* make self=other peace, Ec?

[Ecmandu]

I don’t have to refer to your book to be who I am.

The singularity.

Your book is standard theology. Always about sacrifice. War makes peace. You’re a primitive people.

How do *you* make self=other peace, Ec?

I feel everything Ichthus. Everything. I identified the pleasurable exclusive access problem for all beings.

Your forgiveness, my grace, is that you’re mentally handicapped with a tic disorder. If there was a better solution, I’d have found it by now.

Think of all the people you’ve met in your life…

Take all those qualities and put them into one being… the best ones.

That’s the solution.

[Ichthus77]

No, Ec. You let me off the hook too easy.

And all the best humanity has to offer is like filthy rags compared to God’s perfection/mercy.

That’s kind of the whole point.

& why the hook … I can handle it.

Just not spiders.

Hell is all webs & spiders, Ec.

Some people actually prefer that.

I try to maintain a distance.

[PolandYoung]

“Est autem fides sperandarum substantia rerum, argumentum non apparentium. – Faith is the hypostasis of things hoped for; the proof of things not seen.”

― Benedict XVI, Saved in Hope: Spe Salvi

[PolandYoung]

“But first let me mention the second aid to understanding provided by science. We know today that in a physical experiment the observer himself enters into the experiment and only by doing so can arrive at a physical experience. This means that there is no such thing as pure objectivity in in physics, that even here the result of the experiment, nature's answer, depends on the question put to it. In the answer there is always a bit of the question and a bit of the questioner himself; it reflects not only nature in itself, in its pure objectivity, but also gives back something of man, of what is characteristically ours, a bit of the human subject. This too, mutatis mutandis, is true of the question of God. There is no such thing as a mere observer. There is no such thing as pure objectivity. One can even say that the higher an object stands in human terms, the more it generates the center of individuality; and the more it engages the beholder's individuality, then the smaller the possibility of the mere distancing involved in pure objectivity. Thus, whenever an answer is presented as unemotionally objective, as a statement that finally goes beyond the prejudices of the pious and provides purely factual, scientific information, then it has to be said that the speaker has here fallen victim to self-deception. This kind of objectivity is quite simply denied to man. He cannot ask and exist as a mere observer. He who tries to be a mere observer experiences nothing. Even the reality "God" can only impinge on the vision of him who enters into the experiment with God--the experiment that we call faith. Only be entering does one experience; only by cooperating in the experiment does one ask at all; and only he who asks receives an answer.”

[PolandYoung]

Knowing vs believing? That isnt even the issue, that is a strawman. You already admitted you BELIEVE Jesus isn't real, and yet you claim he is your God. What does that say about you? A lot more than some obscure epistemological factoid.

Keep coping bro, you are transparent. Go back to daddy maybe he will still love you

you lied you rat...you put words in my mouth which i thought i said and which i never said...
where the fuck did i say i dont believe he is real??? you calling me a schizo hahhhahahha

[Ecmandu]

No, Ec. You let me off the hook too easy.

And all the best humanity has to offer is like filthy rags compared to God’s perfection/mercy.

That’s kind of the whole point.

& why the hook … I can handle it.

Just not spiders.

Hell is all webs & spiders, Ec.

Some people actually prefer that.

I try to maintain a distance.

Ichthus. I had to figure out how to let God off the hook.

[Arcturus Descending]

PolandYoung

To have faith is to have doubt

.

This is true. If there is no doubt, it is not faith. It is proven knowledge.

I believe Jesus Christ is our lord and saviour. I honestly doubt he even existed.

Real belief does carry some conviction that something is or can be true. You do not seem to have any kind of belief. You seem to be playing a game in your mind or playing a game here with others.

I honestly think neither Jesus nor God will mind much.

Well, if God and Jesus actually did not exist, you would be correct as there would be no one to mind but what IF they do exist? Do you think THEN that they might mind the doubts which you are putting in people's mind with your callous way of thinking and treating this suybject?

The teachings are of the importance as is the church, the religious community and individual faith. If somebody finds it important or highly relevant that Abraham did this or that thousands of years ago or that a bush caught fire in the desert, this is their own problem.

Why would their religious belief be a problem to them? Either way, it would be a part of their spiritual life an living and would serve a high purpose for them.

God gave me free will and an intellect, I am made in his image.

Is your free will and intellect the only image that you see for God?

I was given ability to recognise evil from good. It is upon me to seek him out. My individual path to him is mine and is as legitimate as any other.

I am not so sure that I would say that it is as legitimate as any other since you seem to keep contradicting yourself in here.
But at the same time, for those who do truly believe in God, you do have every right to go in search of God. God has ordained it - it is not only God's legacy to you but His will...albeit yours is free. I hope that the journey is a great one for you. I kind of think that you and God will really have some kind of roller-coaster relationship going on between the two of you.







As Pascal states, “Let us weigh the gain and the loss in wagering that God is. Let us estimate these two chances. If you gain, you gain all; if you lose, you lose nothing. Wager, then, without hesitation that He is.”

[Meno_]

Only an absolute entrance into the experience , as a formative and necessary experience can offer an answer both singular and one aimed toward the singularity that replicates the image of both, as nearly identical. At about and around that point, Absolution is glascertained.

[Meno_]

Only an absolute entrance into the experience , as a formative and necessary experience can offer an answer both singular and one aimed toward the singularity that replicates the image of both, as nearly identical. At about and around that point, Absolution is glascertained.

Where necessity implies logical necessity, which can exclude two opposing possibilities, and retain the possible ‘future‘likelyhood of some kind or resolution with a reinclusion, on some other level of contingency.

[PolandYoung]

PolandYoung

To have faith is to have doubt

.

This is true. If there is no doubt, it is not faith. It is proven knowledge.

I believe Jesus Christ is our lord and saviour. I honestly doubt he even existed.

Real belief does carry some conviction that something is or can be true. You do not seem to have any kind of belief. You seem to be playing a game in your mind or playing a game here with others.

I honestly think neither Jesus nor God will mind much.

Well, if God and Jesus actually did not exist, you would be correct as there would be no one to mind but what IF they do exist? Do you think THEN that they might mind the doubts which you are putting in people's mind with your callous way of thinking and treating this suybject?

The teachings are of the importance as is the church, the religious community and individual faith. If somebody finds it important or highly relevant that Abraham did this or that thousands of years ago or that a bush caught fire in the desert, this is their own problem.

Why would their religious belief be a problem to them? Either way, it would be a part of their spiritual life an living and would serve a high purpose for them.

God gave me free will and an intellect, I am made in his image.

Is your free will and intellect the only image that you see for God?

I was given ability to recognise evil from good. It is upon me to seek him out. My individual path to him is mine and is as legitimate as any other.

I am not so sure that I would say that it is as legitimate as any other since you seem to keep contradicting yourself in here.
But at the same time, for those who do truly believe in God, you do have every right to go in search of God. God has ordained it - it is not only God's legacy to you but His will...albeit yours is free. I hope that the journey is a great one for you. I kind of think that you and God will really have some kind of roller-coaster relationship going on between the two of you.







As Pascal states, “Let us weigh the gain and the loss in wagering that God is. Let us estimate these two chances. If you gain, you gain all; if you lose, you lose nothing. Wager, then, without hesitation that He is.”

If evidence presents itself that Jesuses existence is dubious and it is written to not lie as a commandment then which one do you choose? This is a Yank sectarian Protestant issue... do you also believe God made the universe in 7 days literally??? Catholics do not, given that the pope has officially cemented the Darwinian evolution as a truth, as in evolution is officially accepted by the Holy Church...the evolution happened in 7 days???

[PolandYoung]

"Fanaticism, fundamentalism and practices contrary to human dignity can never be justified, even less so in the name of religion. The profession of a religion cannot be exploited or imposed by force."

[Ichthus77]

No, Ec. You let me off the hook too easy.

And all the best humanity has to offer is like filthy rags compared to God’s perfection/mercy.

That’s kind of the whole point.

& why the hook … I can handle it.

Just not spiders.

Hell is all webs & spiders, Ec.

Some people actually prefer that.

I try to maintain a distance.

Ichthus. I had to figure out how to let God off the hook.

Who told you there was a hook?

The only one with the right to put anyone on a hook let everyone off it & put himself on it instead.

Why are we still talking about a hook?

[Ecmandu]

No, Ec. You let me off the hook too easy.

And all the best humanity has to offer is like filthy rags compared to God’s perfection/mercy.

That’s kind of the whole point.

& why the hook … I can handle it.

Just not spiders.

Hell is all webs & spiders, Ec.

Some people actually prefer that.

I try to maintain a distance.

Ichthus. I had to figure out how to let God off the hook.

Who told you there was a hook?

The only one with the right to put anyone on a hook let everyone off it & put himself on it instead.

Why are we still talking about a hook?

Ichthus. You’re being obtuse. The hook analogy is the same as your spiderweb analogy.

It wasn’t god who had to forgive me. It was me who had to forgive god.

[HumAnIze]

Knowing vs believing? That isnt even the issue, that is a strawman. You already admitted you BELIEVE Jesus isn't real, and yet you claim he is your God. What does that say about you? A lot more than some obscure epistemological factoid.

Keep coping bro, you are transparent. Go back to daddy maybe he will still love you

you lied you rat...you put words in my mouth which i thought i said and which i never said...
where the fuck did i say i dont believe he is real??? you calling me a schizo hahhhahahha

Keep trying to walk it back. No one cares, we see you for what you are. Dirty little troll, cunty little cult follower. Typical ILP. Not surprised.

I do realize I struck a nerve though, to get you all sperged out over it. Pro tip? Emotions are for women. Get some truths, then get back to me. Or dont.

[Ichthus77]

Ichthus. I had to figure out how to let God off the hook.

Who told you there was a hook?

The only one with the right to put anyone on a hook let everyone off it & put himself on it instead.

Why are we still talking about a hook?

Ichthus. You’re being obtuse. The hook analogy is the same as your spiderweb analogy.

It wasn’t god who had to forgive me. It was me who had to forgive god.

Ec.

I find your lack of consent…

…disturbing.

I don’t want to be Darth Vader, but…

…there are so many threads/replies from me you leave unanswered.

That is both *why* your brain is broken *and* why it is not put back together again.

I’m not trying to be the Big Bad Wolf here.