Identity: the biggest question we ask ourselves.....

This is the main board for discussing philosophy - formal, informal and in between.

Identity: the biggest question we ask ourselves.....

Postby Peter Kropotkin » Thu Jun 24, 2021 3:28 pm

the Right quite often accuses the left/liberals of being far too
concerned with questions of identity...the left of promoting
identity politics, economics, social and philosophical problems....

but think about it... is there any more important question as a human being,
then the question of identity? what is more important then identity?

my identity lies in the problem of "who I am"..... in other words,
my identity lies within the facts of my being white, or my being male,
that is the point of identity... discovering who I am....now some might
say, that we on the left should engage in questions of character, not
identity.. but isn't character questions, is he a honorable person?
aren't questions of character also a question of identity?

what other questions of existence is more compelling and profound then the
questions about our identity?

The Kantian question "what am I to believe?" "what can I know?"
"what am I to do?" these are all, all of them identity questions....

the basic questions of existence are identity questions.....

so if this is true, then we are asking the most powerful questions of all,
questions about who we are and what does it mean to be human?
and these are identity questions.......

Kropotkin
PK IS EVIL.....
Peter Kropotkin
ILP Legend
 
Posts: 9829
Joined: Thu Apr 07, 2005 1:47 am
Location: blue state

Re: Identity: the biggest question we ask ourselves.....

Postby obsrvr524 » Thu Jun 24, 2021 3:46 pm

-
  • Personal Identity
  • Social Identity

Which is more important? Politics is ALL about social identity class.
Member of The Coalition of Truth - member #1

              You have been observed.
    Though often tempted to encourage a dog to distinguish color I refuse to argue with him about it
    It's just same Satanism as always -
    • separate the bottom from the top,
    • the left from the right,
    • the light from the dark, and
    • blame each for the sins of the other
    • - until they beg you to take charge.
    • -- but "you" have been observed --
obsrvr524
Philosopher
 
Posts: 3137
Joined: Thu Jul 11, 2019 9:03 am

Re: Identity: the biggest question we ask ourselves.....

Postby Peter Kropotkin » Thu Jun 24, 2021 3:54 pm

obsrvr524 wrote:-
  • Personal Identity
  • Social Identity

Which is more important? Politics is ALL about social identity class.


K: how do you separate out what is "personal" identity and what is "social" identity?
I see them as one and the same...

and I cannot separate out what is "politics" and what "philosophy" and what
is "economics" and what is "cultural" and what isn't......

in other words, what standards do you use to sort out what is "personal"
and what is "social?"

give us some context....

Kropotkin
PK IS EVIL.....
Peter Kropotkin
ILP Legend
 
Posts: 9829
Joined: Thu Apr 07, 2005 1:47 am
Location: blue state

Re: Identity: the biggest question we ask ourselves.....

Postby obsrvr524 » Thu Jun 24, 2021 4:16 pm

Peter Kropotkin wrote:
obsrvr524 wrote:-
  • Personal Identity
  • Social Identity

Which is more important? Politics is ALL about social identity class.


K: how do you separate out what is "personal" identity and what is "social" identity?
I see them as one and the same...

and I cannot separate out what is "politics" and what "philosophy" and what
is "economics" and what is "cultural" and what isn't......

in other words, what standards do you use to sort out what is "personal"
and what is "social?"

give us some context....

Kropotkin

Zookers - you can't even figure those out?

how do you separate out what is "personal" identity and what is "social" identity?
I see them as one and the same...

  • So all blacks are identical -
  • all whites are identical -
  • all women are identical
You really believe that? Those are their social identities - they must be identical - that what it means.

Some blacks have the strange idea that they are not identical to all other blacks - some are even republican and conservative - quite a few.

And when it comes to women - zookers - try to find two that are identical.

I cannot separate out what is "politics" and what "philosophy" and what
is "economics" and what is "cultural" and what isn't......

  • politics - trying to manipulate people toward chosen policies.
  • philosophy - analyzing wisdom and truth
  • economics - the state of trade between people of a large group
  • culture - the established attitudes and preferences of a society
You not being able to see the difference in those could explain why would can't see the difference between one woman and another.

what standards do you use to sort out what is "personal" and what is "social?"

You never attended schooling of any sort? - totally communist brainwashed?

Some people believe that every individual has his own attributes, skills, and understandings that are a unique package - their "soul". And even when labelled into any group - they are still not exactly the same as the rest of the group.

Social classes are emphasized solely for the purpose of dividing and using Marxism to instigate mutual destruction. Individuals are not classes of presumed identical people to be manipulated into political wars.

I guess maybe it takes being mentally deficient in seeing contrasts and differences to be a communist.
Member of The Coalition of Truth - member #1

              You have been observed.
    Though often tempted to encourage a dog to distinguish color I refuse to argue with him about it
    It's just same Satanism as always -
    • separate the bottom from the top,
    • the left from the right,
    • the light from the dark, and
    • blame each for the sins of the other
    • - until they beg you to take charge.
    • -- but "you" have been observed --
obsrvr524
Philosopher
 
Posts: 3137
Joined: Thu Jul 11, 2019 9:03 am

Re: Identity: the biggest question we ask ourselves.....

Postby Peter Kropotkin » Thu Jun 24, 2021 4:53 pm

K: "how do you separate out what is "personal" identity and what is "social" identity?
I see them as one and the same...
and I cannot separate out what is "politics" and what "philosophy" and what
is "economics" and what is "cultural" and what isn't......
in other words, what standards do you use to sort out what is "personal"
and what is "social?"

give us some context...."

OB: Zookers - you can't even figure those out?

K: I keep forgetting how philosophically ignorant you are..

ok, let us say I "figure" it out, how would I know I am right?

K: how do you separate out what is "personal" identity and what is "social" identity?
I see them as one and the same..

  • So all blacks are identical -
  • all whites are identical -
  • all women are identical
You really believe that? Those are their social identities - they must be identical - that what it means.

K: once again, by your very definition, all blacks are identical because all blacks
are black...

and all whites are identical because all whites are white...

and all women are identical because all women are women....

and how do we separate out their "social" identity? what does that even mean?

OB: Some blacks have the strange idea that they are not identical to all other blacks - some are even republican and conservative - quite a few.
And when it comes to women - zookers - try to find two that are identical.

K: to be black is to be black.....to be a women is to be a women....
but the real question become, what does being a women mean?
what does being "black" even mean? under what context shall I identify
someone who is black and appears black to me, but they self identify
as white...How do I, personally, react to that?

K: [quote]I cannot separate out what is "politics" and what "philosophy" and what
is "economics" and what is "cultural" and what isn't.....

OB: politics - trying to manipulate people toward chosen policies.
[*] philosophy - analyzing wisdom and truth
[*] economics - the state of trade between people of a large group
[*] culture - the established attitudes and preferences of a society[/list]
You not being able to see the difference in those could explain why would can't see the difference between one woman and another.

K: and those are your standards to what is politics and to what is economics
and to what is culture and to what is philosophy.... but what about my standards?
I don't see philosophy as being "analyzing wisdom and truth"
I don't see economics as being the "state of trade between people of a large group"
because if that were true, then every single economist on planet Earth is wrong...
because the study of "Economics" is far, far larger then just a minor study of
trading habits... in fact, that would be a vastly limited understanding of economics...
in studying Economics, which I have done, is an engagement with wages, taxes,
supply and demand, in fact, 90% of actual economics fall outside of your definition...
my handy dandy dictionary says this....

Economics: the branch of knowledge concerned with the production, consumption
and transfer of wealth.

and your definition doesn't even come close to that dictionary definition....
which leads me to believe that you have no idea what is involved in economics,
which then leads me to doubt your other definitions of politics, philosophy,
and culture....

K: what standards do you use to sort out what is "personal" and what is "social?"

OB: You never attended schooling of any sort? - totally communist brainwashed?

K: it isn't an observe or a UR post without insulting someone for being communist,
which I am not, but not that you care.. it is all about the insult for you.....

OB:
Some people believe that every individual has his own attributes, skills, and understandings that are a unique package - their "soul". And even when labelled into any group - they are still not exactly the same as the rest of the group.

K: and you escape any type of accountability/ responsibility for your answer by saying,
"some people"....what do you believe?

you might say, Kropotkin is a communist... and Marx is a communist...
and they are identical... because of the word, communist....

it is only by further study or understanding that we can discover how Marx communism
is different from Kropotkin's communism...

OB: Social classes are emphasized solely for the purpose of dividing and using Marxism to instigate mutual destruction. Individuals are not classes of presumed identical people to be manipulated into political wars.

K: you mean to say that there were no such things as social classes before Marx?
and it is only with the introduction of Marxism that we view people in terms of
class? even a modest reading in history disproves this... people have always
view themselves in terms of class....see the Roman slaves revolt...
which is to say, the slaves revolt of Rome, the slave uprising which gave us
Spartacus, they didn't view themselves as a class?

and didn't the Romans who overcame this slave revolt saw themselves as a class?

Kropotkin
PK IS EVIL.....
Peter Kropotkin
ILP Legend
 
Posts: 9829
Joined: Thu Apr 07, 2005 1:47 am
Location: blue state

Re: Identity: the biggest question we ask ourselves.....

Postby obsrvr524 » Thu Jun 24, 2021 5:31 pm

Peter Kropotkin wrote:ok, let us say I "figure" it out, how would I know I am right?

The same way you do with everything else - read or watch MSM and if they say nothing about it - ask Xi Jinping. That is the only choice for people who cannot think on their own.

Peter Kropotkin wrote:
obsrvr524 wrote:
  • So all blacks are identical -
  • all whites are identical -
  • all women are identical
You really believe that? Those are their social identities - they must be identical - that is what it means.


K: once again, by your very definition, all blacks are identical because all blacks
are black...

and all whites are identical because all whites are white...

and all women are identical because all women are women....

and how do we separate out their "social" identity? what does that even mean?

That is not MY definition - that is what social identity means. And you separate them merely by how they look - or in some cases what they profess - "I identify as a woman - I was just accidentally born with male features."

It isn't hard - that is why it is used to divide and conquer - it is so easy even simple minded communists can do it.

Peter Kropotkin wrote:to be black is to be black.....to be a women is to be a women....
but the real question become, what does being a women mean?

You are the group identity advocate - you tell us.

Peter Kropotkin wrote: under what context shall I identify
someone who is black and appears black to me, but they self identify
as white...How do I, personally, react to that?

Again - like everything else - you bow to MSM. Currently (dare I say) "individuals" (even though we secretly know there is no such thing) have priority over appearance and scientific details - whatever social classification they claim must be regarded as what they are - in some countries it is the law.

Peter Kropotkin wrote:
  • politics - trying to manipulate people toward chosen policies.
  • philosophy - analyzing wisdom and truth
  • economics - the state of trade between people of a large group
  • culture - the established attitudes and preferences of a society
You not being able to see the difference in those could explain why would can't see the difference between one woman and another.

K: and those are your standards to what is politics and to what is economics
and to what is culture and to what is philosophy.... but what about my standards?
I don't see philosophy as being "analyzing wisdom and truth"
I don't see economics as being the "state of trade between people of a large group"
because if that were true, then every single economist on planet Earth is wrong...
because the study of "Economics" is far, far larger then just a minor study of
trading habits... in fact, that would be a vastly limited understanding of economics...
in studying Economics, which I have done, is an engagement with wages, taxes,
supply and demand, in fact, 90% of actual economics fall outside of your definition...
my handy dandy dictionary says this....

Economics: the branch of knowledge concerned with the production, consumption
and transfer of wealth.

If you want to invent your own language - get Xi Jinping's permission and get to it - don't ask us.

Peter Kropotkin wrote: it is all about the insult for you.....

:lol: This from the bloke who says to just call everyone who disagrees with him a Liar!

Peter Kropotkin wrote:you might say, Kropotkin is a communist... and Marx is a communist...
and they are identical... because of the word, communist....

You might -- personally I see Marx as much smarter.

Peter Kropotkin wrote:you mean to say that there were no such things as social classes before Marx?

Do you mean to say there were no such things as individual or personal identities - ever?
Member of The Coalition of Truth - member #1

              You have been observed.
    Though often tempted to encourage a dog to distinguish color I refuse to argue with him about it
    It's just same Satanism as always -
    • separate the bottom from the top,
    • the left from the right,
    • the light from the dark, and
    • blame each for the sins of the other
    • - until they beg you to take charge.
    • -- but "you" have been observed --
obsrvr524
Philosopher
 
Posts: 3137
Joined: Thu Jul 11, 2019 9:03 am

Re: Identity: the biggest question we ask ourselves.....

Postby Peter Kropotkin » Thu Jun 24, 2021 6:22 pm

Peter Kropotkin: ok, let us say I "figure" it out, how would I know I am right? [/quote]

OB: The same way you do with everything else - read or watch MSM and if they say nothing about it - ask Xi Jinping. That is the only choice for people who cannot think on their own.

K: what a non-answer! I don't even know who Xi Jinping is? and what does the media have to do with
... how do I know? not how the media knows... are you suggesting that I don't/can't think on my
own? my posts, a 9500 of them disproves this...


Peter KropotkinSo all blacks are identical -
[*] all whites are identical -
[*] all women are identical[/list]

OB: You really believe that? Those are their social identities - they must be identical - that is what it means.

K: once again, by your very definition, all blacks are identical because all blacks
are black...
and all whites are identical because all whites are white...
and all women are identical because all women are women....
and how do we separate out their "social" identity? what does that even mean?

OB: That is not MY definition - that is what social identity means. And you separate them merely by how they look - or in some cases what they profess - "I identify as a woman - I was just accidentally born with male features."

K: once again, a non-answer.. who isn't thinking now? what does a "social identity" mean?
so, what is your "definition?"


OB: It isn't hard - that is why it is used to divide and conquer - it is so easy even simple minded communists can do it.

K: an another non-answer... divide and conquer who, what, when, where, how and why?

Peter Kropotkin: to be black is to be black.....to be a women is to be a women....
but the real question become, what does being a women mean?

OB: You are the group identity advocate - you tell us.

K: another non-answer... what does "group advocate" mean?

Peter Kropotkin: under what context shall I identify
someone who is black and appears black to me, but they self identify
as white...How do I, personally, react to that?

OB: Again - like everything else - you bow to MSM. Currently (dare I say) "individuals" (even though we secretly know there is no such thing) have priority over appearance and scientific details - whatever social classification they claim must be regarded as what they are - in some countries it is the law.

K: another non-answer... what does the MSM, I am guessing that means "main stream media"
have to do with my understanding of what it means to self-identify? I don't watch "MSM"
or get my news that way... I turn on the TV to watch sports... baseball right now, but
basketball when it is on.. rarely hockey or football.. but I don't watch the news...
and your other part of the answer, really doesn't make any sense to me....

what does that mean to Hold that "Individuals have priority over appearance and scientific
details-whatever social classification they claim must be regarded as to what they are?...
what the hell does this even mean?

Ob: - trying to manipulate people toward chosen policies.
[*] philosophy - analyzing wisdom and truth
[*] economics - the state of trade between people of a large group
[*] culture - the established attitudes and preferences of a society[/list]

OB: You not being able to see the difference in those could explain why would can't see the difference between one woman and another.

K: and those are your standards to what is politics and to what is economics
and to what is culture and to what is philosophy.... but what about my standards?
I don't see philosophy as being "analyzing wisdom and truth"
I don't see economics as being the "state of trade between people of a large group"
because if that were true, then every single economist on planet Earth is wrong...
because the study of "Economics" is far, far larger then just a minor study of
trading habits... in fact, that would be a vastly limited understanding of economics...
in studying Economics, which I have done, is an engagement with wages, taxes,
supply and demand, in fact, 90% of actual economics fall outside of your definition...
my handy dandy dictionary says this....

Economics: the branch of knowledge concerned with the production, consumption
and transfer of wealth. [/quote]

OB: If you want to invent your own language - get Xi Jinping's permission and get to it - don't ask us.

K: how is quoting from the dictionary, my own language? and who is Xi Jinping? why would I need
his/her permission? you are not making any sense...

Peter Kropotkin: it is all about the insult for you.....

Ob :lol: This from the bloke who says to just call everyone who disagrees with him a Liar!

K: please quote the post where I said that? where? when?

Peter Kropotkin: you might say, Kropotkin is a communist... and Marx is a communist...
and they are identical... because of the word, communist....[/quote]

Ob: You might -- personally I see Marx as much smarter.

K: again, depending on the "standard" or context one uses...

Peter Kropotkin: you mean to say that there were no such things as social classes before Marx?

Ob: Do you mean to say there were no such things as individual or personal identities - ever?

K: I know you are not the sharpest tool in the shed, but who gets to define what
a "personal" or "social" identity is? does a person get to or does the society get to define
what is the "personal" identity and what is the "social" identity of an individual?

on a more general note, the lack of any real answers suggest to me,
that you really don't know what you are talking about...
I suspect that shortly you will announce that I have no way of understanding your
thoughts and you will leave me to my own devices...

while I cannot understand your thoughts unless you clear them up into
some recognizable format....non-answers don't tell me what your thoughts are,
they are a way to avoid answering the questions...

Kropotkin
PK IS EVIL.....
Peter Kropotkin
ILP Legend
 
Posts: 9829
Joined: Thu Apr 07, 2005 1:47 am
Location: blue state

Re: Identity: the biggest question we ask ourselves.....

Postby obsrvr524 » Thu Jun 24, 2021 6:28 pm

Peter Kropotkin wrote:Peter Kropotkin: ok, let us say I "figure" it out, how would I know I am right?

OB: The same way you do with everything else - read or watch MSM and if they say nothing about it - ask Xi Jinping. That is the only choice for people who cannot think on their own.

K: what a non-answer! I don't even know who Xi Jinping is?

:lol:
If you don't even know who Xi Jinping is - zookers - :lol:
That is about like arguing over WW2 but then commenting that you don't know who Hitler was. :-?

I guess you are just stuck with asking MSM.

And that really is your only answer. You will be clueless either way but at least you will have comrades.
Member of The Coalition of Truth - member #1

              You have been observed.
    Though often tempted to encourage a dog to distinguish color I refuse to argue with him about it
    It's just same Satanism as always -
    • separate the bottom from the top,
    • the left from the right,
    • the light from the dark, and
    • blame each for the sins of the other
    • - until they beg you to take charge.
    • -- but "you" have been observed --
obsrvr524
Philosopher
 
Posts: 3137
Joined: Thu Jul 11, 2019 9:03 am

Re: Identity: the biggest question we ask ourselves.....

Postby Peter Kropotkin » Thu Jun 24, 2021 6:48 pm

obsrvr524 wrote:
Peter Kropotkin wrote:Peter Kropotkin: ok, let us say I "figure" it out, how would I know I am right?

OB: The same way you do with everything else - read or watch MSM and if they say nothing about it - ask Xi Jinping. That is the only choice for people who cannot think on their own.

K: what a non-answer! I don't even know who Xi Jinping is?

:lol:
If you don't even know who Xi Jinping is - zookers - :lol:
That is about like arguing over WW2 but then commenting that you don't know who Hitler was. :-?

I guess you are just stuck with asking MSM.

And that really is your only answer. You will be clueless either way but at least you will have comrades.


K: and more non-answers... you really don't have anything..... outside of non-answers....
just answer one of my several questions... if you can?....so I am calling you out at
this point... you can't answer my questions because it would expose you for your
complete lack of ignorance... now your response is going to something about
Xi Jinping... but frankly that is just another non-answer of yours....what does
Xi have to do with my understanding of identity? nothing... nothing at all.....
or anybody's understanding of identity? there is no relationship between this
Xi person and understanding identity......individually or collectively.....

what is your understanding of identity? and how do we connect that to our collective
understanding of who we are? I can self identify as an American, but what
that mean for me personally? or you can reverse the case, what does it mean to
self identify as male and then connect that to a collective understanding of
being American?

make some connections to what identity and self identity means?

Kropotkin
PK IS EVIL.....
Peter Kropotkin
ILP Legend
 
Posts: 9829
Joined: Thu Apr 07, 2005 1:47 am
Location: blue state

Re: Identity: the biggest question we ask ourselves.....

Postby Peter Kropotkin » Thu Jun 24, 2021 6:51 pm

I got bored of waiting for you to answer any of my questions, so I looked up
who Xi Jinping is, and what does the head of China have to do with my own
personal understanding of identity?

these are two completely unrelated matters... the head of China is one point
and the second point is my own understanding of identity?

Kropotkin
PK IS EVIL.....
Peter Kropotkin
ILP Legend
 
Posts: 9829
Joined: Thu Apr 07, 2005 1:47 am
Location: blue state


Return to Philosophy



Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users