exploring the "fractured and fragmented" self

This is the main board for discussing philosophy - formal, informal and in between.

Re: exploring the "fractured and fragmented" self

Postby iambiguous » Wed Jun 16, 2021 6:47 pm

Meno_ wrote:Himt: he is #2 stooge replaced a group of comics who were known to have said " who is on second or third."

Curly died age 48 years old and Shemp replaced him.

The game of numbers placed both on second base because of that. Prior to that, the configuration was different

However, 'shemp' derives various meanings, but can be placed into the wider context of someone disliked.


Note to nature:

I can actually understand this. What gives? 8)
He was like a man who wanted to change all; and could not; so burned with his impotence; and had only me, an infinitely small microcosm to convert or detest. John Fowles

Start here: viewtopic.php?f=1&t=176529
Then here: viewtopic.php?f=15&t=185296
And here: viewtopic.php?f=1&t=194382
User avatar
iambiguous
ILP Legend
 
Posts: 42190
Joined: Tue Nov 16, 2010 8:03 pm
Location: hanging out with godot

Re: exploring the "fractured and fragmented" self

Postby Sculptor » Thu Jun 17, 2021 12:44 pm

iambiguous wrote:
Shemp wrote: Shemp.


Shemp wrote:don't know that person


Right, like Mr. Reasonable didn't know who Tyler Durden is. :lol:

I think you are being a bit parochial.
I assume Mr Reasonable is a poster here on the FOrum. But who the fuck Is Tyler Durden?

Anyway, given the real deal free world, your call. Drop the Stooge persona and perhaps we can actually exchange some interesting posts.

I am who I say I am.
Fucking Americans should take the trouble to get their heads out of their arses once in a while!
Sculptor
Philosopher
 
Posts: 1111
Joined: Thu Dec 17, 2020 10:52 pm

Re: exploring the "fractured and fragmented" self

Postby Aventador » Thu Jun 17, 2021 2:15 pm

He doesn't sound very fractured and fragmented at all. He seems very clear and single minded.
Aventador
 
Posts: 362
Joined: Fri May 28, 2021 1:34 am

Re: exploring the "fractured and fragmented" self

Postby Aventador » Thu Jun 17, 2021 2:17 pm

Also, Who's on third.
Aventador
 
Posts: 362
Joined: Fri May 28, 2021 1:34 am

Re: exploring the "fractured and fragmented" self

Postby Aventador » Thu Jun 17, 2021 2:24 pm

Actually, he's one of the most collected, most imbued with certainty motherfuckers I ever read.

There are no two facets to this man.

Picture of unity even. Flawless egoic coherence.
Aventador
 
Posts: 362
Joined: Fri May 28, 2021 1:34 am

Re: exploring the "fractured and fragmented" self

Postby Aventador » Thu Jun 17, 2021 2:48 pm

Maybe this whole fragmented fractured thing is an exercise in keeping the fragmentation away, maintaining the pristine unity of his self.

Difficult choices are other people's problem. For him, it's a unitary monolith of self. Not by pulling coherence in, but by pushing fragmentation out does he maintain the integrity of his unified self-image.

For actual difficult or political choices, there is always emotion. Thought is for the fragmented. And this is achieved by expelling any thought he may have in the form of a question. Doubt, of course, can only come in when an answer is attempted to a question, so that part is for others. And by the pressure of their answers, but also the absence and, indeed, rejection of the very principle of answering in himself, the integrity of his Freudian ego is maintained. If you think, you doubt. If you doubt, you lose. He does not think. He does not doubt.

And he covers any embarrassments by mechanical output of quotations and music.

He is,

The Fragmentonator

:lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol:
Aventador
 
Posts: 362
Joined: Fri May 28, 2021 1:34 am

Re: exploring the "fractured and fragmented" self

Postby Aventador » Thu Jun 17, 2021 2:56 pm

I am just joking, it's all in good humor.
Aventador
 
Posts: 362
Joined: Fri May 28, 2021 1:34 am

Re: exploring the "fractured and fragmented" self

Postby Aventador » Thu Jun 17, 2021 3:02 pm

He is not a pure vacuum of thought, he obviously does have his very clear leftist-socialist view that he knows is philosophically indefensible, so he just tries to hide it.

It's all in good fun.
Aventador
 
Posts: 362
Joined: Fri May 28, 2021 1:34 am

Re: exploring the "fractured and fragmented" self

Postby Meno_ » Thu Jun 17, 2021 4:46 pm

meno says :

"Himt: he is #2 stooge replaced a group of comics who were known to have said " who is on second or third."

Curly died age 48 years old and Shemp replaced him.

The game of numbers placed both on second base because of that. Prior to that, the configuration was different

However, 'shemp' derives various meanings, but can be placed into the wider context of someone disliked.

Iambigious says

Note to nature:

"I can actually understand this. What gives? "




me no says:


What gives is that the the positional significance of the fissures and fractures coded in the bionominal duplicity-(amb- iguity) is posts gibed within a transcendental certainty of the implicated fracture.

The fractures are derived from the implicated post Descartes's era of uncertainty.

You and all have to live in the shadow of this implicated angst.
Last edited by Meno_ on Thu Jun 17, 2021 4:49 pm, edited 1 time in total.
Meno_
breathless
 
Posts: 9235
Joined: Tue Dec 08, 2015 2:39 am
Location: Mysterium Tremendum

Re: exploring the "fractured and fragmented" self

Postby Meno_ » Thu Jun 17, 2021 4:46 pm

meno says :

"Himt: he is #2 stooge replaced a group of comics who were known to have said " who is on second or third."

Curly died age 48 years old and Shemp replaced him.

The game of numbers placed both on second base because of that. Prior to that, the configuration was different

However, 'shemp' derives various meanings, but can be placed into the wider context of someone disliked.

Iambigious says

Note to nature:

"I can actually understand this. What gives? "




me no says:


What gives is that the the positional significance of the fissures and fractures coded in the bionominal duplicity-(amb- iguity) is postscribed within a transcendental certainty of the implicated fracture.

The fractures are derived from the implicated post Descartes's era of uncertainty.

You and all have to live in the shadow of this implicated angst.
Last edited by Meno_ on Thu Jun 17, 2021 4:54 pm, edited 2 times in total.
Meno_
breathless
 
Posts: 9235
Joined: Tue Dec 08, 2015 2:39 am
Location: Mysterium Tremendum

Re: exploring the "fractured and fragmented" self

Postby Meno_ » Thu Jun 17, 2021 4:47 pm

Sorry for duplicate
Meno_
breathless
 
Posts: 9235
Joined: Tue Dec 08, 2015 2:39 am
Location: Mysterium Tremendum

Re: exploring the "fractured and fragmented" self

Postby iambiguous » Thu Jun 17, 2021 5:03 pm

Shemp wrote:
iambiguous wrote:
Shemp wrote: Shemp.


Shemp wrote:don't know that person


Right, like Mr. Reasonable didn't know who Tyler Durden is. :lol:

I think you are being a bit parochial.
I assume Mr Reasonable is a poster here on the FOrum. But who the fuck Is Tyler Durden?

Anyway, given the real deal free world, your call. Drop the Stooge persona and perhaps we can actually exchange some interesting posts.

I am who I say I am.
Fucking Americans should take the trouble to get their heads out of their arses once in a while!


The Stooge being, uh, clever? 8)
He was like a man who wanted to change all; and could not; so burned with his impotence; and had only me, an infinitely small microcosm to convert or detest. John Fowles

Start here: viewtopic.php?f=1&t=176529
Then here: viewtopic.php?f=15&t=185296
And here: viewtopic.php?f=1&t=194382
User avatar
iambiguous
ILP Legend
 
Posts: 42190
Joined: Tue Nov 16, 2010 8:03 pm
Location: hanging out with godot

Re: exploring the "fractured and fragmented" self

Postby iambiguous » Thu Jun 17, 2021 5:08 pm

biggie wrote:

Note to nature:

"I can actually understand this. What gives? "


Meno wrote:me no says:


What gives is that the the positional significance of the fissures and fractures coded in the bionominal duplicity-(amb- iguity) is postscribed within a transcendental certainty of the implicated fracture.

The fractures are derived from the implicated post Descartes's era of uncertainty.

You and all have to live in the shadow of this implicated angst.


Note to nature:

I dare you to explain that. Implicated or otherwise.
Last edited by iambiguous on Thu Jun 17, 2021 5:21 pm, edited 1 time in total.
He was like a man who wanted to change all; and could not; so burned with his impotence; and had only me, an infinitely small microcosm to convert or detest. John Fowles

Start here: viewtopic.php?f=1&t=176529
Then here: viewtopic.php?f=15&t=185296
And here: viewtopic.php?f=1&t=194382
User avatar
iambiguous
ILP Legend
 
Posts: 42190
Joined: Tue Nov 16, 2010 8:03 pm
Location: hanging out with godot

Re: exploring the "fractured and fragmented" self

Postby iambiguous » Thu Jun 17, 2021 5:19 pm

Aventador wrote: Maybe this whole fragmented fractured thing is an exercise in keeping the fragmentation away, maintaining the pristine unity of his self.


We'll need an actual context, of course.

Aventador wrote: Difficult choices are other people's problem. For him, it's a unitary monolith of self. Not by pulling coherence in, but by pushing fragmentation out does he maintain the integrity of his unified self-image.

For actual difficult or political choices, there is always emotion. Thought is for the fragmented. And this is achieved by expelling any thought he may have in the form of a question. Doubt, of course, can only come in when an answer is attempted to a question, so that part is for others. And by the pressure of their answers, but also the absence and, indeed, rejection of the very principle of answering in himself, the integrity of his Freudian ego is maintained. If you think, you doubt. If you doubt, you lose. He does not think. He does not doubt.

And he covers any embarrassments by mechanical output of quotations and music.


Note to nature:

Please, one Meno is enough on this thread.

Seriously though, is this guy willing -- able -- to discuss the manner in which I do construe the fractured and fragmented self given a particular set of circumstances.

Philosophically, for example.

Given, say, the manner in which I explore it myself on this thread: https://www.ilovephilosophy.com/viewtop ... 1&t=194382

Or is he/she just one more Stooge in the making? :wink:
He was like a man who wanted to change all; and could not; so burned with his impotence; and had only me, an infinitely small microcosm to convert or detest. John Fowles

Start here: viewtopic.php?f=1&t=176529
Then here: viewtopic.php?f=15&t=185296
And here: viewtopic.php?f=1&t=194382
User avatar
iambiguous
ILP Legend
 
Posts: 42190
Joined: Tue Nov 16, 2010 8:03 pm
Location: hanging out with godot

Re: exploring the "fractured and fragmented" self

Postby Aventador » Thu Jun 17, 2021 5:42 pm

iambiguous wrote:discuss the manner in which I do construe the fractured and fragmented self given a particular set of circumstances


I'm not exactly sure what this means.

I'm sure you mean it to mean something.

But I'm not sure what it means.
Aventador
 
Posts: 362
Joined: Fri May 28, 2021 1:34 am

Re: exploring the "fractured and fragmented" self

Postby Aventador » Thu Jun 17, 2021 5:46 pm

And you never went to Vietnam.

I have a $1000 right now that is yours if you can furnish any proof that you ever set foot in Vietnam.

You old quack.
Aventador
 
Posts: 362
Joined: Fri May 28, 2021 1:34 am

Re: exploring the "fractured and fragmented" self

Postby iambiguous » Thu Jun 17, 2021 5:52 pm

Aventador wrote:
iambiguous wrote:discuss the manner in which I do construe the fractured and fragmented self given a particular set of circumstances


I'm not exactly sure what this means.

I'm sure you mean it to mean something.

But I'm not sure what it means.


Okay, here is the OP of the thread I noted above:

iambiguous wrote:If there is one thing I am clearly preoccupied with at ILP, it is relationship between moral and political value judgments and the existential tajectory of the lives that we live.

And, in almost every thread in which I post about this relationship, I eventually get around to this:

1] I was raised in the belly of the working class beast. My family/community were very conservative. Abortion was a sin.
2] I was drafted into the Army and while on my "tour of duty" in Vietnam I happened upon politically radical folks who reconfigured my thinking about abortion. And God and lots of other things.
3] after I left the Army, I enrolled in college and became further involved in left wing politics. It was all the rage back then. I became a feminist. I married a feminist. I wholeheartedly embraced a woman's right to choose.
4] then came the calamity with Mary and John. I loved them both but their engagement was foundering on the rocks that was Mary's choice to abort their unborn baby.
5] back and forth we all went. I supported Mary but I could understand the points that John was making. I could understand the arguments being made on both sides. John was right from his side and Mary was right from hers.
6] I read William Barrett's Irrational Man and came upon his conjectures regarding "rival goods".
7] Then, over time, I abandoned an objectivist frame of mind that revolved around Marxism/feminism. Instead, I became more and more embedded in existentialism. And then as more years passed I became an advocate for moral nihilism.


This because in it are embedded two experiences that were of fundamental importance in shaping and then reconfiguring my own moral and political narratives.

Over the years, I have gone from an objectivist frame of mind [right vs. wrong, good vs. evil] to a way of thinking about morality in human interactions that basically revolves around moral nihilism.

And, then, in turn, this resulted in my tumbling down into a philosophical "hole" such that for all practical purposes, "I" became increasing more fragmented.

This hole:

If I am always of the opinion that 1] my own values are rooted in dasein and 2] that there are no objective values "I" can reach, then every time I make one particular moral/political leap, I am admitting that I might have gone in the other direction...or that I might just as well have gone in the other direction. Then "I" begins to fracture and fragment to the point there is nothing able to actually keep it all together. At least not with respect to choosing sides morally and politically.

In other words, I am no longer able to think of myself as being in sync with the "real me" in sync with "the right thing to do".

So, I decided to create this thread in order for others to at least make the attempt to describe their own value judgments existentially. Values as they became intertwined over the course of their lives in "experiences, relationships and information, knowledge and ideas."

The part where theory is tested in practice out in particular contexts out in particular worlds.

This thread is not for those ever intent on providing us with "general descriptions" of human interactions. Interactions that are then described almost entirely using technical or academic language.

Instead, this thread is for trying to explain [to the best of your ability] why you think you came to value some behaviors over others. Linking both the experiences you had and the ideas that you came upon that shaped and molded your thinking in reacting to them.

From time to time I will bring it back to the top in case any new members might have an interest in this.



Here the focus is on my "fragmented and fractured" sense of self in regard to the abortion wars. But it could pertain to any other set of "conflicting goods" that have rent the species down through the ages.

How about you? Are you or are you not "drawn and quartered" in regard to your own moral and political value judgments?
He was like a man who wanted to change all; and could not; so burned with his impotence; and had only me, an infinitely small microcosm to convert or detest. John Fowles

Start here: viewtopic.php?f=1&t=176529
Then here: viewtopic.php?f=15&t=185296
And here: viewtopic.php?f=1&t=194382
User avatar
iambiguous
ILP Legend
 
Posts: 42190
Joined: Tue Nov 16, 2010 8:03 pm
Location: hanging out with godot

Re: exploring the "fractured and fragmented" self

Postby Aventador » Thu Jun 17, 2021 5:57 pm

Again...
Aventador
 
Posts: 362
Joined: Fri May 28, 2021 1:34 am

Re: exploring the "fractured and fragmented" self

Postby Aventador » Thu Jun 17, 2021 5:57 pm

Aventador wrote:And you never went to Vietnam.

I have a $1000 right now that is yours if you can furnish any proof that you ever set foot in Vietnam.

You old quack.
Aventador
 
Posts: 362
Joined: Fri May 28, 2021 1:34 am

Re: exploring the "fractured and fragmented" self

Postby Aventador » Thu Jun 17, 2021 5:59 pm

You're too good to claim $1000? What are you rich or some shit?
Aventador
 
Posts: 362
Joined: Fri May 28, 2021 1:34 am

Re: exploring the "fractured and fragmented" self

Postby iambiguous » Thu Jun 17, 2021 6:28 pm

Aventador wrote:And you never went to Vietnam.

I have a $1000 right now that is yours if you can furnish any proof that you ever set foot in Vietnam.

You old quack.


Note to others:

Great, another fucking Stooge! I give these guys a chance to note why on Earth they are here at a forum called I LOVE PHILOSOPHY. And this is what I get?!!


As for proof that I was in Vietnam, I'll note the information listed on section 24 of my DD214:

BRONZE STAR MEDAL, ARMY CONMENDATION MEDAL [w/V dev], NATIONAL DEFENSE SERVICE MEDAL, VIETNAM CAMPAIGN MEDAL [W/60 dev], VIETNAM SERVICE MEDAL, OVERSEAS BARS [TWO], EXPERT BADGE M-14, EXPERT BADGE M-16

So Mr. Smartass, is there going to be actual exchange between us regarding your own "sense of identity" or not. You know, this being a philosophy forum.

I am, after all, running out of names to call my Stooges.

Oh, and how close have you ever come to actual armed combat?
He was like a man who wanted to change all; and could not; so burned with his impotence; and had only me, an infinitely small microcosm to convert or detest. John Fowles

Start here: viewtopic.php?f=1&t=176529
Then here: viewtopic.php?f=15&t=185296
And here: viewtopic.php?f=1&t=194382
User avatar
iambiguous
ILP Legend
 
Posts: 42190
Joined: Tue Nov 16, 2010 8:03 pm
Location: hanging out with godot

Re: exploring the "fractured and fragmented" self

Postby promethean75 » Thu Jun 17, 2021 7:35 pm

Biggs was once an outstanding soldier, but his ideas and methods became unsound.
promethean75
Philosopher
 
Posts: 4798
Joined: Thu Jan 31, 2019 7:10 pm

Re: exploring the "fractured and fragmented" self

Postby iambiguous » Thu Jun 17, 2021 9:09 pm

promethean75 wrote:Biggs was once an outstanding soldier, but his ideas and methods became unsound.


Actually, I was a rather shitty soldier. Just ask Sergeant White who sent me to "rocket city" Song Be. Or Colonel Hayden who received the Silver Star after our MACV had been destroyed. And this son of a bitch wasn't even there! Or at least that was the general consensus.

And of course this part: https://youtu.be/VKcAYMb5uk4
He was like a man who wanted to change all; and could not; so burned with his impotence; and had only me, an infinitely small microcosm to convert or detest. John Fowles

Start here: viewtopic.php?f=1&t=176529
Then here: viewtopic.php?f=15&t=185296
And here: viewtopic.php?f=1&t=194382
User avatar
iambiguous
ILP Legend
 
Posts: 42190
Joined: Tue Nov 16, 2010 8:03 pm
Location: hanging out with godot

Re: exploring the "fractured and fragmented" self

Postby promethean75 » Thu Jun 17, 2021 9:54 pm

Life, like war, makes shitty soldiers of us all, iambiguous.
promethean75
Philosopher
 
Posts: 4798
Joined: Thu Jan 31, 2019 7:10 pm

Re: exploring the "fractured and fragmented" self

Postby Meno_ » Fri Jun 18, 2021 9:11 am

iambiguous wrote:
biggie wrote:

Note to nature:

"I can actually understand this. What gives? "


Meno wrote:me no says:


What gives is that the the positional significance of the fissures and fractures coded in the bionominal duplicity-(amb- iguity) is postscribed within a transcendental certainty of the implicated fracture.

The fractures are derived from the implicated post Descartes's era of uncertainty.

You and all have to live in the shadow of this implicated angst.


Note to nature:

I dare you to explain that. Implicated or otherwise.



That wer'e all are fractured since the days when men could assure themselves of the rational progression of their abstracted lives.

Since then. Science has unearthed the greatest uncertainty that he ever faced; because if God did not exist, He had to be created to fill that hole.
Meno_
breathless
 
Posts: 9235
Joined: Tue Dec 08, 2015 2:39 am
Location: Mysterium Tremendum

PreviousNext

Return to Philosophy



Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users