J'accuse these people of lying.....

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J'accuse these people of lying.....

Postby Peter Kropotkin » Mon Jun 14, 2021 8:30 pm

I am writing in the vein of Zola... and should be take as such....

I accuse these people of lying: Observe, Wendy, Joker, Gloom among others...

not of lying to us, that is a given, no, of lying or being dishonest/ of being
unauthentic to themselves.. by lying to themselves....let me be clearer...

these people lack the courage to honestly address what their positions,
their political, philosophical, economic and religious positions actually
involve...or entails...

they avoid any attempt to discover or describe what their positions involve
by attacking me or IAM.. an example is when one calls me an "Marxists"
with no attempt to get any context as to what a Marxist actually believes in...
or no attempt to discover what their position/s might be.. they may in fact,
be Marxists themselves... but who knows because they will not engage in
any way, shape or form as to what their position actually might be....

for example, they attack my position of corporation being the nexus of evil...
and I hold that corporations must be held accountable..... so attacking me
suggest that they don't want corporations to be held accountable.....I am a
Marxists for wanting corporations to be held accountable and pay their fair share
of taxes...ok, I am good with that... if being Marxist means holding corporations
accountable and paying taxes...I am good with that....

another position I hold, and have stated ad nauseam,
I hold to the position that the most important value we hold,
both individually and collectively is the value of justice...
I hold to justice as a value before I hold to freedom...
if we don't have justice, freedom becomes irrelevant...
and these people who attack my position, does that mean they
don't believe in Justice? that they don't want people and/or corporations
to be held accountable, to hold the rich, powerful, the connected to be
held accountable for their actions?

these liars don't lay out their position, they just attack my position as being
"marxists" but they never lay out what they hold to be true or what is their
position..... just that I am wrong....they don't hold themselves accountable for
what they believe in.. these liars....they lie to us and in doing so, avoid
accountability for their own beliefs.. they never tell us what they believe in...
only that I am wrong.... ok, fine, tell us how how I am wrong in regards to what
you believe in? why is your truth more "true" then my belief?

their attacks hold that they don't want to be held accountable for their
beliefs....

that they are being "inauthentic" is clear... to give an example what exactly
this "inauthentic" actions means.. I return to the Dreyfus affair to which my
title refers to.... the French high command in 1894 knew that someone was
passing top secrets to the German high command... so to avoid blame,
they decided to implicate a Captain Alfred Dreyfus, a Jew, as the the person
who was passing the top secrets and why did they pick Dreyfus? because he
was Jewish.. and that is the only reason why they picked him.. it was politically
safer to dishonor a Jew, then the real culprit who was in fact a French army officer
named Ferinand Walsin Esterhazy...but he wasn't a Jew and that was enough for
him to escape notice until later when a court trial, which suppressed evidence,
cleared him of charges... so the entire French high command tried to suppress
evidence which cleared one man and implicated another simple because it wasn't
convenient for the high command to implicate the guilt party...who was
a high command favorite..

that is the point here.... why engage with the truth when the truth implicates
ones favorite beliefs... so these liars tell lies about what Kropotkin believes to
save their own personal truths from being exposed... or understood....

it is easier to attack someone then to engage in the search for the truth about
what one actually believes..... Observe may actually be an Marxist, but he would
never engage in a search to discover if that is true because that would interfere with
his own idealized imagine of who he thinks he might be..... the truth becomes
a battle ground between the idealized self image of himself or an
escape from the truth by attacking others to escape any type of self
examination that might expose one as a ..... communist? perhaps...
something worse then a communist? depends on what self imagine Observe is
protecting...

so these people engage in self deception to protect their own self image,
their own idealized vision of who they think they are, not who they actually are.....

and it is important to never discover who one actually is.... because that truth
might give lie to the idealized vision people have of themselves....

Kropotkin
PK IS EVIL.....
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Re: J'accuse these people of lying.....

Postby obsrvr524 » Mon Jun 14, 2021 8:44 pm

As always - the ILP Commie Club icon - always accusing his enemies of exactly what he does (and is).

Anyone surprised? :-?
Member of The Coalition of Truth - member #1

              You have been observed.
    Though often tempted to encourage a dog to distinguish color I refuse to argue with him about it
    It's just same Satanism as always -
    • separate the bottom from the top,
    • the left from the right,
    • the light from the dark, and
    • blame each for the sins of the other
    • - until they beg you to take charge.
    • -- but "you" have been observed --
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Re: J'accuse these people of lying.....

Postby Peter Kropotkin » Mon Jun 14, 2021 8:55 pm

obsrvr524 wrote:As always - the ILP Commie Club icon - always accusing his enemies of exactly what he does (and is).

Anyone surprised? :-?


K: and what truth about yourself have you offered up?
none, just attacks against me..... give us something about your views
that make them "truer" then my beliefs? why your beliefs instead of mine?

try to make an argument instead of a decree.. a statement without context.....

Kropotkin
PK IS EVIL.....
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Re: J'accuse these people of lying.....

Postby Ecmandu » Mon Jun 14, 2021 8:59 pm

obsrvr524 wrote:As always - the ILP Commie Club icon - always accusing his enemies of exactly what he does (and is).

Anyone surprised? :-?


Obsrvr. I’d ban you for your reply to peters post.

It’s unresponsive trolling that makes you the person projecting.
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Re: J'accuse these people of lying.....

Postby obsrvr524 » Mon Jun 14, 2021 9:02 pm

If I thought you were capable of having a discussion or even debate without being nothing more than deflection, lying, and communist punditry - I might engage - but having seen observed you - :lol:

I can't get a dog to see color no matter how much I argue with him. Why would I want to just give him another excuse to whine, bark, and piss on the floor?
Member of The Coalition of Truth - member #1

              You have been observed.
    Though often tempted to encourage a dog to distinguish color I refuse to argue with him about it
    It's just same Satanism as always -
    • separate the bottom from the top,
    • the left from the right,
    • the light from the dark, and
    • blame each for the sins of the other
    • - until they beg you to take charge.
    • -- but "you" have been observed --
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Re: J'accuse these people of lying.....

Postby Ecmandu » Mon Jun 14, 2021 9:13 pm

obsrvr524 wrote:If I thought you were capable of having a discussion or even debate without being nothing more than deflection, lying, and communist punditry - I might engage - but having seen observed you - :lol:

I can't get a dog to see color no matter how much I argue with him. Why would I want to just give him another excuse to whine, bark, and piss on the floor?


Obsrvr,

Your really lucky that we’re decent people. You’re not.

Neither Peter or I will report you.

I break down walls of projection which is why Peter doesn’t talk to me.

You, on the other hand, politics aside. You troll the fuck out of people.

Peter put a lot of thought into his post, and you’re just trying to hurt his feelings. That’s unacceptable behavior.
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Re: J'accuse these people of lying.....

Postby Peter Kropotkin » Mon Jun 14, 2021 9:19 pm

obsrvr524 wrote:If I thought you were capable of having a discussion or even debate without being nothing more than deflection, lying, and communist punditry - I might engage - but having seen observed you - :lol:

I can't get a dog to see color no matter how much I argue with him. Why would I want to just give him another excuse to whine, bark, and piss on the floor?


K: and we reach the run away time, as usual for those liars....they never want to engage
in any type of discussion about the values we should hold, both individually
and collectively......so they make shit up and then run away from
any discussion.......observe certainly wouldn't want any real truth to hit him...
because that might cause him to doubt his beliefs and that is what most important
to these liars... their self image never be doubted or challenged....
we certainly wouldn't want observe to become "woke" to the truth....
"woke" as in aware of what is real and what isn't.....

reality is something to run away from, never to approach.... because if
one approaches the truth, you might get a dose of reality and begin to
doubt those values you have been indoctrinated with, like god, country,
and truth....

Kropotkin
PK IS EVIL.....
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Re: J'accuse these people of lying.....

Postby Ecmandu » Mon Jun 14, 2021 9:26 pm

Obsrvr,

If you want to debate anyone about this post that Peter made, debate me.

I think Peter has me on ignore.

I’ll defend this mans right to say heartfelt things and not be trolled for it.
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Re: J'accuse these people of lying.....

Postby WendyDarling » Mon Jun 14, 2021 9:48 pm

Ecmandu wrote:
obsrvr524 wrote:If I thought you were capable of having a discussion or even debate without being nothing more than deflection, lying, and communist punditry - I might engage - but having seen observed you - :lol:

I can't get a dog to see color no matter how much I argue with him. Why would I want to just give him another excuse to whine, bark, and piss on the floor?


Obsrvr,

Your really lucky that we’re decent people. You’re not.

Neither Peter or I will report you.

I break down walls of projection which is why Peter doesn’t talk to me.

You, on the other hand, politics aside. You troll the fuck out of people.

Peter put a lot of thought into his post, and you’re just trying to hurt his feelings. That’s unacceptable behavior.

EC, Peter’s entire thread is ad hominem by calling people: Obsrvr, Gloom, Joker and I of being liars without even offering any proof. Pk’s thread is a troll. Report this by all means.
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"facts change all the time and not only that, they don't mean anything...."-Peter Kropotkin :evilfun:
"I can hope they have some degree of self-awareness but the facts suggest that
they don't..... "- Peter Kropotkin
. :evilfun:
"you don't know the value of facts and you don't know the value of the ‘TRUTH”... " -Peter Kropotkin :lol:
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Re: J'accuse these people of lying.....

Postby Ecmandu » Mon Jun 14, 2021 10:08 pm

WendyDarling wrote:
Ecmandu wrote:
obsrvr524 wrote:If I thought you were capable of having a discussion or even debate without being nothing more than deflection, lying, and communist punditry - I might engage - but having seen observed you - :lol:

I can't get a dog to see color no matter how much I argue with him. Why would I want to just give him another excuse to whine, bark, and piss on the floor?


Obsrvr,

Your really lucky that we’re decent people. You’re not.

Neither Peter or I will report you.

I break down walls of projection which is why Peter doesn’t talk to me.

You, on the other hand, politics aside. You troll the fuck out of people.

Peter put a lot of thought into his post, and you’re just trying to hurt his feelings. That’s unacceptable behavior.

EC, Peter’s entire thread is ad hominem by calling people: Obsrvr, Gloom, Joker and I of being liars without even offering any proof. Pk’s thread is a troll. Report this by all means.


But you have to understand. Trump is a moron.

Peter has every right to say so. If you ask me? Every president has been a moron.

I like peters argument better than yours.

I just said I wouldn’t report obsrvr... neither would Peter ... but has the right to call trump supporters idiots.
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Re: J'accuse these people of lying.....

Postby Peter Kropotkin » Mon Jun 14, 2021 10:24 pm

WendyDarling:
EC, Peter’s entire thread is ad hominem by calling people: Obsrvr, Gloom, Joker and I of being liars without even offering any proof. Pk’s thread is a troll. Report this by all means.[/quote]


K: and yet, I offer up plenty of proof..... I give examples, for example, I mention
the search for justice.... does anyone of the liars ever list the values they
hold to be true? nope, they just attack me for being "Marxist" without ever
engaging in some understanding of the concept of justice...Is justice a value
we should engage with? reading them, no one would know...or what about
the value of freedom? is that a value we should be engage with? reading and thinking
about what values should we hold? not should we attack Kropotkin because he doesn't believe
in what I believe in?

and as a sidelight, I actually don't even write for the 10 to 15 people who post
here regularly... I write for the 10 to 100 people who silently read each post
without ever responding... I write for them.... the "silent majority" as it were....

I am trying to engage with those who read us without posting....
I want them to engage with their thoughts about what it means to
be human or what it means to be an American? "What are we to do?"
"What values should we hold?" "what are we to believe in?"

in other words, I want those silent types to engage in an examination
of their own values and what it means to hold those values...for values
have consequences... and what are the consequences for the value of,
say freedom? or the consequences of the value of Justice?

what are the values worth holding? I hope the silent types engage in that
type of search for values worth holding? Even if they don't report it back to us,
at least they are doing something that the liars and the conservatives won't do...
which is engage in the values we hold and see if those values are really the values
we should be engage with or should we try to hold/engage with other values?

what truths are worth holding to and why?

Kropotkin
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Re: J'accuse these people of lying.....

Postby WendyDarling » Mon Jun 14, 2021 10:34 pm

Ecmandu wrote:
But you have to understand. Trump is a moron.

Peter has every right to say so. If you ask me? Every president has been a moron.

I like peters argument better than yours.

I just said I wouldn’t report obsrvr... neither would Peter ... but has the right to call trump supporters idiots.

So you support ad hominem and ad hominem threads that troll specific individuals who do not agree with you or Peter. Then, you add more ad hominems by calling us idiots as well.

Spirits, witness the abuse EC piles on people who do not think as he does? I expect karmic justice. :-"
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"facts change all the time and not only that, they don't mean anything...."-Peter Kropotkin :evilfun:
"I can hope they have some degree of self-awareness but the facts suggest that
they don't..... "- Peter Kropotkin
. :evilfun:
"you don't know the value of facts and you don't know the value of the ‘TRUTH”... " -Peter Kropotkin :lol:
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Re: J'accuse these people of lying.....

Postby Ecmandu » Mon Jun 14, 2021 10:41 pm

WendyDarling wrote:
Ecmandu wrote:
But you have to understand. Trump is a moron.

Peter has every right to say so. If you ask me? Every president has been a moron.

I like peters argument better than yours.

I just said I wouldn’t report obsrvr... neither would Peter ... but has the right to call trump supporters idiots.

So you support ad hominem and ad hominem threads that troll specific individuals who do not agree with you or Peter. Then, you ad more ad hominems by calling us idiots as well.

Spirits, witness the abuse EC piles on people who do not think as he does? I expect karmic justice. :-"


Wendy... karma is just how many people like you or don’t. It can shift massively even in one day!!

Upwards or downwards.

Wendy, I know more about this than you now.

Let me tell you what a real state of the union address is:

“There are two problems with existence...

The exclusive pleasurable access problem and the negative zero sum problem ... in the meantime ... it’s about making as many friends as you can have or afford.”

That’s a REAL state-of-the-art union address. Not the crap they throw out. Meaning, Wendy, meaning. Truth, Wendy, truth.

Get it now?
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Re: J'accuse these people of lying.....

Postby WendyDarling » Mon Jun 14, 2021 10:54 pm

Ecmandu wrote:
WendyDarling wrote:
Ecmandu wrote:
But you have to understand. Trump is a moron.

Peter has every right to say so. If you ask me? Every president has been a moron.

I like peters argument better than yours.

I just said I wouldn’t report obsrvr... neither would Peter ... but has the right to call trump supporters idiots.

So you support ad hominem and ad hominem threads that troll specific individuals who do not agree with you or Peter. Then, you ad more ad hominems by calling us idiots as well.

Spirits, witness the abuse EC piles on people who do not think as he does? I expect karmic justice. :-"


Wendy... karma is just how many people like you or don’t. It can shift massively even in one day!!

Upwards or downwards.

Wendy, I know more about this than you now.

Let me tell you what a real state of the union address is:

“There are two problems with existence...

The exclusive pleasurable access problem and the negative zero sum problem ... in the meantime ... it’s about making as many friends as you can have or afford.”

That’s a REAL state-of-the-art union address. Not the crap they throw out. Meaning, Wendy, meaning. Truth, Wendy, truth.

Get it now?


EC, report when your reckoning occurs, please. I’m curious if the spirits no longer favor your actions and your plans.
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"I can hope they have some degree of self-awareness but the facts suggest that
they don't..... "- Peter Kropotkin
. :evilfun:
"you don't know the value of facts and you don't know the value of the ‘TRUTH”... " -Peter Kropotkin :lol:
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Re: J'accuse these people of lying.....

Postby obsrvr524 » Mon Jun 14, 2021 10:58 pm

You must be one of the very few who don't have Ecmandu on ignore. :-?
Member of The Coalition of Truth - member #1

              You have been observed.
    Though often tempted to encourage a dog to distinguish color I refuse to argue with him about it
    It's just same Satanism as always -
    • separate the bottom from the top,
    • the left from the right,
    • the light from the dark, and
    • blame each for the sins of the other
    • - until they beg you to take charge.
    • -- but "you" have been observed --
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Re: J'accuse these people of lying.....

Postby Ecmandu » Mon Jun 14, 2021 11:01 pm

Wendy,

I make spirits feel like shit.

My spirit can’t feel pleasure unless every spirit is in their personal heaven forever.

What I say is this:

There’s got to be a way to know for sure that we’re not harming a living being no matter what we do while still having all our desires met.

That’s heart Wendy.

You know who hates me? (and it’s lots of spirits in denial) spirits who think existence is perfect.

But... I also have support from honest spirits.
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Re: J'accuse these people of lying.....

Postby Ecmandu » Tue Jun 15, 2021 12:22 am

Ecmandu wrote:Wendy,

I make spirits feel like shit.

My spirit can’t feel pleasure unless every spirit is in their personal heaven forever.

What I say is this:

There’s got to be a way to know for sure that we’re not harming a living being no matter what we do while still having all our desires met.

That’s heart Wendy.

You know who hates me? (and it’s lots of spirits in denial) spirits who think existence is perfect.

But... I also have support from honest spirits.



The cool thing about my spirit though is that it permeates forgiveness for others in their own spirits, because they didn’t understand.

I have a really amazing spirit for “stop beating yourself up”, if that makes any sense.
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Re: J'accuse these people of lying.....

Postby Dan~ » Tue Jun 15, 2021 10:39 am

I agree that justice is more important than freedom.

But one doesn't come about by the reduction of the other.

Justice produces freedom as a side-effect, maybe.
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Re: J'accuse these people of lying.....

Postby Ecmandu » Tue Jun 15, 2021 11:36 pm

Dan~ wrote:I agree that justice is more important than freedom.

But one doesn't come about by the reduction of the other.

Justice produces freedom as a side-effect, maybe.


We currently live in a shitty universe. All of us are in hell at various levels. That’s not acceptable.
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Re: J'accuse these people of lying.....

Postby Gloominary » Wed Jun 16, 2021 5:41 am

Sigh, PK, you are such a drama queen. #-o
We discuss our positions and reasons for holding them all the time.
But by all means, hold onto this myth only 'leftwingers' have the courage to examine themselves, their beliefs and values while evil 'rightwingers' like myself and Mr. J (even tho both of us are fiscally leftwing and environmentally and socially I hold some leftwing positions) just have kneejerk reactions to things, if it helps you sleep.
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Re: J'accuse these people of lying.....

Postby Peter Kropotkin » Wed Jun 16, 2021 4:14 pm

Gloominary wrote:Sigh, PK, you are such a drama queen. #-o
We discuss our positions and reasons for holding them all the time.
But by all means, hold onto this myth only 'leftwingers' have the courage to examine themselves, their beliefs and values while evil 'rightwingers' like myself and Mr. J (even tho both of us are fiscally leftwing and environmentally and socially I hold some leftwing positions) just have kneejerk reactions to things, if it helps you sleep.


K: I have pointed out in many diverse and different ways how I have attacked my positions...
I have created threads attacking Liberalism.. I have attacked Obama, I have attacked both
Hilary and Bill clinton...I have publicly attacked Marxism.. I have stated what I
believed in AND Why I hold these these positions.....I have created context to
my positions and have stated why these beliefs fit reality more then other beliefs...

the right winger makes grand and bold statements, but they leave out context...
why hold to fiscally conservative beliefs? give us some context? looking at
American economic history, looking at history and the economic results of
that history, we can clearly see that the country does far better, economically,
under the Dems then under GOP administrations.....look back
at our economic history since 1920, it is clear that America does far better
under DEM administractions....and the standard argument goes, what about Raygun?
and I submit that Uncle Ronnie was one of the 5 worst presidents in American history....

you did well in the 1980's if you were upper class or part of the1%, everyone else
got screwed, used and tattooed...... a great deal of our problems today stem
from Raygun's fucking over America......the quite clearly racist "war on drugs"
to the wholesale attacks on the working poor and the minorities in this country.....
to the massive increase in the militarization of the police to dramatic decrease
in income for the average minority person in this country...
to the attack on labor unions which has weakened both the rights and income of
the average American......

why hold fiscally conservative when they have failed time and tIme again?

Kropotkin
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