exploring the "fractured and fragmented" self

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Re: exploring the "fractured and fragmented" self

Postby Sculptor » Mon Jun 14, 2021 1:34 pm

phyllo wrote:Aren't you guys just feeding his narcissism?

Thread, after thread, after thread ... putting the spotlight on him.


So you are saying that Iambiguous is a narcissist? Maybe.
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Re: exploring the "fractured and fragmented" self

Postby Peter Kropotkin » Mon Jun 14, 2021 3:02 pm

So, I get where IAM is coming from...I too, a long time ago,
"suffered" from having a "fractured and fragmented self"....
first of all, it isn't that complicated... what does "fractured"
mean? well, I fractured a bone... easy enough to figure out,
and what does fragmented mean?

Fragment: a small part broken or separated off of something....

so clearly, having a "fractured and fragmented self" isn't that hard to
figure out...use some imagination....unless like some around here, you
don't have any imagination....no names, it is pretty clear who they are.... :-"

so the real question revolves around the question of "soul"...
a soul, that which makes us "Human", not animal, not animal/human...
but human, fully human....

Goethe once wrote, "alas, I have two souls in my breast"....but given modern
history and the path of the 20th and 21st century, only two souls is practically
a rarity these days....I hold that the entire "modern" history of human beings
comes from the "fractured and fragmented self"... in other words, having
a "fractured and fragmented self" is a modern condition.. caused by modernity...
the "fractured and fragment self" didn't exists before the "French Revolution"
and the various modern revolutions that we know exists, the scientific revolution,
the political revolutions, the industrial revolution.....these various revolutions
are in fact the cause of the Modern day soul being "fractured and fragmented"....

and the fact is, every single person in the last 120 years or more, has been
"fractured and fragmented" in their soul......it is the modern condition.....
that is what defines being modern.... a "fractured and fragmented soul"

those around here who profess not to understand IAM, just haven't engaged in
any type of exploration of who they are....because if they had, they too would
see that they are modern human beings with "fractured and fragmented souls"

the modern problem is how to overcome having a "fractured
and fragmented soul".....

but Kropotkin, I don't have a "fracture and fragmented soul" like IAM....
ahhhh, frankly you don't have any idea what the state of your soul is because
99.9% of everyone simply won't engage in some sort of "honest" dialogue about
who they are and what it means to be human.....denial ain't a river in Egypt,
it is a profound measure of what it means to be human in this modern era.....
we deny, deny, deny and then for good measure, deny some more....
sure you may pretend to know what you aren't.. I am not "fractured and fragmented''
but can you tell me what you are then? .... no of course not....
you don't know and what is problematic is that you don't seem to care...
(the use of you is to indicate everyone)

the modern world is centered around "doing" things, like those dam home
improvement commercials, but the fact is, "doing" is far less important
then actually becoming aware... being "woke" as it were, to who
you are and what is the state of your soul........

being active and busy allows one to escape a critical examination of
who you are and what does it mean to be human.....I am too busy to
investigate what the state of my soul really is.... maybe tomorrow, if
I am not too busy.... and of course you are too busy... with the crap
work and busyness that that we use to excuse ourselves from
an actual examination of who we are and what is the state of our soul.....
we hide behind the busyness of the modern world which allow us to
hide and pretend and mask our true selves, our real selves...
our "fracture and fragmented selves"......which we would see if
we have the courage to engage with who we are and what it means to
be human...to engage with our souls, not our pocket book or our
means of production/our crap jobs.....

to be a modern human being means to have a "fractured and fragmented soul"
if you only took the time to look honestly, you would know that.....

Kropotkin
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Re: exploring the "fractured and fragmented" self

Postby iambiguous » Mon Jun 14, 2021 6:06 pm

Sculptor wrote:
iambiguous wrote:
Gloominary wrote:Insofar as we're capable of entertaining them, we're all fractured and fragmented about philosophical matters in degrees, even if we don't admit it to others, or ourselves.
Some people just want answers to life's most difficult questions, and they'll push their doubts to one side, another, or sweep them under the rug in order to have them.
These doubts resurface every now and then generating angst before being plunged back down.

We're all torn, just some are more able and willing to patch themselves up.
Having a rock solid paradigm takes some effort.
The more conflicting ideas and experiences one is exposed to, the more effort required.
Some have some awareness of how torn they are while others are normally completely oblivious, but something will remind them sooner or later, filling them with dread, fear, frustration, guilt, and perhaps hate.

Some will often entertain their doubts, while others often fight them or flee, but I don't think anyone on earth has been entirely comfortable with doubt, even a saint like Socrates.


Yes, as intellectual assessments go, I would generally agree with this.

But we still need to focus in on a particular set of circumstances in other to explore more fully the manner in which I make a distinction between those things that, in the either/or world, we seem able to communicate to each other in complete agreement, and those things in the is/ought world where, in my view, "I" is more likely to become fractured and fragmented in defending one moral and political value judgment [prejudice] rather than another.


What a bumbling collection of words this is. =D>
This is an insight into a feverish confused mind, at best, and a person with schitzophrenic tendancies at worst.
Why do you not just say what you want to say? Or is you mind the jumble it appears to be?
:lol:


Again, with you, my interest lies less in what you post and more in the manner in which you splatter the forum time and again with an insufferable arrogance that knows no bounds.

Just ask Ierrellus. 8)

Indeed, you remind me somewhat of polishyouth. More intelligent, more articulate, more informed perhaps -- less insane? -- but still no less seething in regard to those who refuse to think exactly as you do.

So, as with him, I propose this:

It would appear to be futile to engage him until we come closer to this part:

...someday he might finally confront whatever or whoever turned him into a rampaging caricature of the philosopher king. And, perhaps, be able to engage in a substantive exchange without him configuring into the fulminating fanatic that he can become here.

Something has clearly pissed him off in life. Something that compels him to come into places like this and vent!!!

It seems [to me] that he needs to make scapegoats of those he construes to be part of whatever he is outraged about. But what is it? And how did it come about?

Wouldn't that be far more fascinating to explore than the "substance" of his rants?


So, care to go there?
He was like a man who wanted to change all; and could not; so burned with his impotence; and had only me, an infinitely small microcosm to convert or detest. John Fowles

Start here: viewtopic.php?f=1&t=176529
Then here: viewtopic.php?f=15&t=185296
And here: viewtopic.php?f=1&t=194382
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Re: exploring the "fractured and fragmented" self

Postby Meno_ » Mon Jun 14, 2021 6:14 pm

Here is an armature psych fan's take on the interchange;

Omitting object relations for discarding it for reasons below the level of association and somewhat above reasonable exclusion of immaterial facts; leads to throwing mudpies at each other.

It is devisive.
Last edited by Meno_ on Mon Jun 14, 2021 8:35 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: exploring the "fractured and fragmented" self

Postby iambiguous » Mon Jun 14, 2021 6:16 pm

phyllo wrote:Aren't you guys just feeding his narcissism?

Thread, after thread, after thread ... putting the spotlight on him.


On the other hand, you've been doing that yourself now for...years?

Though I suspect that, after all this time, you do grasp what it is about my "fractured and fragmented" self that most disturbs you. This: the extent to which it is also applicable to you.

After all, you're not the objectivist that you once were, right?
He was like a man who wanted to change all; and could not; so burned with his impotence; and had only me, an infinitely small microcosm to convert or detest. John Fowles

Start here: viewtopic.php?f=1&t=176529
Then here: viewtopic.php?f=15&t=185296
And here: viewtopic.php?f=1&t=194382
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Re: exploring the "fractured and fragmented" self

Postby iambiguous » Mon Jun 14, 2021 10:23 pm

Meno_ wrote:Here is an armature psych fan's take on the interchange;

Omitting object relations for discarding it for reasons below the level of association and somewhat above reasonable exclusion of immaterial facts; leads to throwing mudpies at each other.

It is devisive.


On the other hand, throwing a fractured and fragmented mud pie involves considerably less arrogance than regarding those hurled by the moral and political objectivists.

If I do say so myself. 8)
He was like a man who wanted to change all; and could not; so burned with his impotence; and had only me, an infinitely small microcosm to convert or detest. John Fowles

Start here: viewtopic.php?f=1&t=176529
Then here: viewtopic.php?f=15&t=185296
And here: viewtopic.php?f=1&t=194382
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Re: exploring the "fractured and fragmented" self

Postby Sculptor » Mon Jun 14, 2021 10:38 pm

iambiguous wrote:
Just ask Ierrellus. 8)


That's just your other indentity.
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Re: exploring the "fractured and fragmented" self

Postby iambiguous » Mon Jun 14, 2021 11:01 pm

Sculptor wrote:
iambiguous wrote:
Just ask Ierrellus. 8)


That's just your other indentity.


Come on, as obsrvr524 would insist, "stop deflecting".

In fact, I so exasperated Ierrellus -- whose intelligence I do respect -- I had to promise him not to post on any of his threads here.

Here's where we still need to take your own objectivist rants:

Again, with you, my interest lies less in what you post and more in the manner in which you splatter the forum time and again with an insufferable arrogance that knows no bounds.

Indeed, you remind me somewhat of polishyouth. More intelligent, more articulate, more informed perhaps -- less insane? -- but still no less seething in regard to those who refuse to think exactly as you do.

So, as with him, I propose this:

It would appear to be futile to engage him until we come closer to this part:

...someday he might finally confront whatever or whoever turned him into a rampaging caricature of the philosopher king. And, perhaps, be able to engage in a substantive exchange without him configuring into the fulminating fanatic that he can become here.

Something has clearly pissed him off in life. Something that compels him to come into places like this and vent!!!

It seems [to me] that he needs to make scapegoats of those he construes to be part of whatever he is outraged about. But what is it? And how did it come about?

Wouldn't that be far more fascinating to explore than the "substance" of his rants?


So, care to go there?


Just out of curiosity, you wouldn't happen to be a thickly disguised moreno/karpel tunnel?

As with you, he and I both shared many of the same prejudices in regard to religion and politics. But, as with you, he had a very thin skin when it came to those who did not share his own arguments. I think that when push came to shove his "pragmatism" was just another rendition of objectivism. And I believe that he reacted to my "fractured and fragmented" self in much the same manner as the actual hardcore objectivists here.

Eventually it drove him to attacking me as a Stooge.

Just like you.

You're Shemp, right? 8)
He was like a man who wanted to change all; and could not; so burned with his impotence; and had only me, an infinitely small microcosm to convert or detest. John Fowles

Start here: viewtopic.php?f=1&t=176529
Then here: viewtopic.php?f=15&t=185296
And here: viewtopic.php?f=1&t=194382
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Re: exploring the "fractured and fragmented" self

Postby Sculptor » Mon Jun 14, 2021 11:02 pm

iambiguous wrote:
Sculptor wrote:
iambiguous wrote:
Just ask Ierrellus. 8)


That's just your other indentity.


Come on, as obsrvr524 would insist, "stop deflecting".


Says the master of deflection.
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Re: exploring the "fractured and fragmented" self

Postby iambiguous » Mon Jun 14, 2021 11:06 pm

iambiguous wrote:Just ask Ierrellus. 8)


Sculptor wrote: That's just your other indentity.


iambiguous wrote:Come on, as obsrvr524 would insist, "stop deflecting".


Sculptor wrote: Says the master of deflection.


Note to nature:

How in the world did you come up with a name like Shemp?!

Not that it doesn't fit perfectly.
He was like a man who wanted to change all; and could not; so burned with his impotence; and had only me, an infinitely small microcosm to convert or detest. John Fowles

Start here: viewtopic.php?f=1&t=176529
Then here: viewtopic.php?f=15&t=185296
And here: viewtopic.php?f=1&t=194382
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Re: exploring the "fractured and fragmented" self

Postby Gloominary » Wed Jun 16, 2021 3:32 am

Sculptor wrote:
iambiguous wrote:
Gloominary wrote:Insofar as we're capable of entertaining them, we're all fractured and fragmented about philosophical matters in degrees, even if we don't admit it to others, or ourselves.
Some people just want answers to life's most difficult questions, and they'll push their doubts to one side, another, or sweep them under the rug in order to have them.
These doubts resurface every now and then generating angst before being plunged back down.

We're all torn, just some are more able and willing to patch themselves up.
Having a rock solid paradigm takes some effort.
The more conflicting ideas and experiences one is exposed to, the more effort required.
Some have some awareness of how torn they are while others are normally completely oblivious, but something will remind them sooner or later, filling them with dread, fear, frustration, guilt, and perhaps hate.

Some will often entertain their doubts, while others often fight them or flee, but I don't think anyone on earth has been entirely comfortable with doubt, even a saint like Socrates.


Yes, as intellectual assessments go, I would generally agree with this.

But we still need to focus in on a particular set of circumstances in other to explore more fully the manner in which I make a distinction between those things that, in the either/or world, we seem able to communicate to each other in complete agreement, and those things in the is/ought world where, in my view, "I" is more likely to become fractured and fragmented in defending one moral and political value judgment [prejudice] rather than another.


What a bumbling collection of words this is. =D>
This is an insight into a feverish confused mind, at best, and a person with schitzophrenic tendancies at worst.
Why do you not just say what you want to say? Or is you mind the jumble it appears to be?
:lol:

To a simpleton such as yourself, it must seem that way.
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Re: exploring the "fractured and fragmented" self

Postby Peter Kropotkin » Wed Jun 16, 2021 4:30 am

iambiguous:
Yes, as intellectual assessments go, I would generally agree with this.

But we still need to focus in on a particular set of circumstances in other to explore more fully the manner in which I make a distinction between those things that, in the either/or world, we seem able to communicate to each other in complete agreement, and those things in the is/ought world where, in my view, "I" is more likely to become fractured and fragmented in defending one moral and political value judgment [prejudice] rather than another.[/quote]

GL: What a bumbling collection of words this is. =D>
This is an insight into a feverish confused mind, at best, and a person with schitzophrenic tendancies at worst.
Why do you not just say what you want to say? Or is you mind the jumble it appears to be?
:lol:[/quote]
To a simpleton such as yourself, it must seem that way.[/quote]

K: as someone who has read Iam with interest over the years, I for one have found
him to be far brighter then most here, including you.... his word are over your head.....
way over your head......his message quite clear and loud.... and plain and
intelligent.. his message is of the scalpel, not your method of the hammer....
and that is why he confuses you... it is a bit too subtle for you........

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Re: exploring the "fractured and fragmented" self

Postby Gloominary » Wed Jun 16, 2021 4:34 am

K: as someone who has read Iam with interest over the years, I for one have found
him to be far brighter then most here, including you.... his word are over your head.....
way over your head......his message quite clear and loud.... and plain and
intelligent.. his message is of the scalpel, not your method of the hammer....
and that is why he confuses you... it is a bit too subtle for you........

Kropotkin

I was responding to what Sculptor said, not to iam.
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Re: exploring the "fractured and fragmented" self

Postby Gloominary » Wed Jun 16, 2021 4:41 am

PK you really gotta work on your reading comprehension, you're confusing things I said with things Sculptor said.

Me and iam are roughly in agreement on this topic.
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Re: exploring the "fractured and fragmented" self

Postby Gloominary » Wed Jun 16, 2021 5:00 am

PK, I'm not even sure you're capable of recognizing me as a distinct person, I think everyone you tend to disagree with sort of blends into the same person or entity for you, as you tend to struggle with nuance and recalling detail.
The same goes for Sculptor.
A large % of people on this forum may be suffering from onset dementia.
To you I'm probably just some 'rightwinger' or Trumpist, even tho I must've mentioned I'm a social democrat 50 times since I joined this forum.
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Re: exploring the "fractured and fragmented" self

Postby phyllo » Wed Jun 16, 2021 11:07 am

Moving on to the "fractured and fragmented" self ...
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Re: exploring the "fractured and fragmented" self

Postby Sculptor » Wed Jun 16, 2021 12:19 pm

iambiguous wrote:]

Note to nature:
.


Do you have a reason for using this worn our phrase.
It always seems so meaningless.
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Re: exploring the "fractured and fragmented" self

Postby iambiguous » Wed Jun 16, 2021 4:51 pm

phyllo wrote:Moving on to the "fractured and fragmented" self ...


Indeed.

How about this...

Given a moral or political context -- where in my view "I" is far more likely to be fractured and fragmented -- how would you encompass your own sense of self as more or less drawn and quartered when confronted with another who challenges your value judgments?

I can assure you that in such a discussion I am able to be far more detailed as to what I mean by it.
He was like a man who wanted to change all; and could not; so burned with his impotence; and had only me, an infinitely small microcosm to convert or detest. John Fowles

Start here: viewtopic.php?f=1&t=176529
Then here: viewtopic.php?f=15&t=185296
And here: viewtopic.php?f=1&t=194382
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Re: exploring the "fractured and fragmented" self

Postby iambiguous » Wed Jun 16, 2021 5:05 pm

Shemp wrote:
iambiguous wrote:]

Note to nature:
.


Do you have a reason for using this worn our phrase.
It always seems so meaningless.


It's an inside joke between me and nature. But since nature compels me to use it, I'm not privy as to why.

Trust me: better to just assume we live in a real deal free will world. Even though, given that, I do make a fool out of you time and again.

Or, rather, that arrogant and caustic Stooge character Shemp. Which, as I noted elsewhere, I'd be curious to explore with you. Why do you feel the need to be so fucking arrogant and caustic with some?

Now, sure, put that crap aside and we may well sustain some invigorating and challenging and substantive exchanges.





Right, Karpel Tunnel? 8)
He was like a man who wanted to change all; and could not; so burned with his impotence; and had only me, an infinitely small microcosm to convert or detest. John Fowles

Start here: viewtopic.php?f=1&t=176529
Then here: viewtopic.php?f=15&t=185296
And here: viewtopic.php?f=1&t=194382
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Re: exploring the "fractured and fragmented" self

Postby Peter Kropotkin » Wed Jun 16, 2021 5:13 pm

Gloominary wrote:PK, I'm not even sure you're capable of recognizing me as a distinct person, I think everyone you tend to disagree with sort of blends into the same person or entity for you, as you tend to struggle with nuance and recalling detail.
The same goes for Sculptor.
A large % of people on this forum may be suffering from onset dementia.
To you I'm probably just some 'rightwinger' or Trumpist, even tho I must've mentioned I'm a social democrat 50 times since I joined this forum.


K: in fact, most of you do blend in because of your refusal to work out your beliefs,
because the beliefs you hold are not examined or understood...it is not enough to say,
for example, "BLM is a Marxist organization" you have to work out what that means, give it some
context, and then work out what it is you actually do hold to be true....
If BLM, for example is wrong, then what is right and why?

you say you are a "social democrat"... great, give us some context as to what that
actually means, say in regards to BLM... or you can use another example if you wish......

why are your beliefs so "superior" to my beliefs?
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Re: exploring the "fractured and fragmented" self

Postby Sculptor » Wed Jun 16, 2021 5:14 pm

iambiguous wrote:
Shemp wrote:
iambiguous wrote:]

Note to nature:
.


Do you have a reason for using this worn our phrase.
It always seems so meaningless.

Trust me:

never
Shemp.

don't know that person
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Re: exploring the "fractured and fragmented" self

Postby Meno_ » Wed Jun 16, 2021 5:41 pm

Himt: he is #2 stooge replaced a group of comics who were known to have said " who is on second or third."

Curly died age 48 years old and Shemp replaced him.

The game of numbers placed both on second base because of that. Prior to that, the configuration was different

However, 'shemp' derives various meanings, but can be placed into the wider context of someone disliked.
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Re: exploring the "fractured and fragmented" self

Postby Sculptor » Wed Jun 16, 2021 5:51 pm

Meno_ wrote:Himt: he is #2 stooge replaced a group of comics who were known to have said " who is on second or third."

Curly died age 48 years old and Shemp replaced him.

The game of numbers placed both on second base because of that. Prior to that, the configuration was different

However, 'shemp' derives various meanings, but can be placed into the wider context of someone disliked.


No idea.
I thought watt what on second and who was on third.
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Re: exploring the "fractured and fragmented" self

Postby phyllo » Wed Jun 16, 2021 6:15 pm

Who's on first, What's on second, Idontknow's on third.
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Re: exploring the "fractured and fragmented" self

Postby iambiguous » Wed Jun 16, 2021 6:46 pm

Shemp wrote: Shemp.


Shemp wrote:don't know that person


Right, like Mr. Reasonable didn't know who Tyler Durden is. :lol:

Anyway, given the real deal free world, your call. Drop the Stooge persona and perhaps we can actually exchange some interesting posts.
He was like a man who wanted to change all; and could not; so burned with his impotence; and had only me, an infinitely small microcosm to convert or detest. John Fowles

Start here: viewtopic.php?f=1&t=176529
Then here: viewtopic.php?f=15&t=185296
And here: viewtopic.php?f=1&t=194382
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