good or bad idea? Genetics + Humanity.

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good or bad idea? Genetics + Humanity.

Postby Dan~ » Tue Feb 18, 2020 12:14 pm

We're at the phase where we can genetically modify humans.
It will get bigger, easier and better.
The question is: Will this end up good or bad?

I am guessing the dummies will try to ban human modification.
And as they are dummies, the military makes super humans, secretly.
The dummies will believe humans cannot be improved.
The dummies trust that conspiracy is nonsense;
if it is real, we would have heard about it on the news.
Dummies love the TV. They trust it, too.

The eusophy vs dummyism.
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Re: good or bad idea? Genetics + Humanity.

Postby Karpel Tunnel » Tue Feb 18, 2020 3:24 pm

At the risk of having one foot in the dummy camp, I don't like the idea of gm humans. Not because 'we cannot be improved'. But since we would be doing the 'improving', oh my gollygogs, I am skeptical. In fact my sense that we are not particularly wise much of the reason I dislike gm-human trends. I look at what we do with plastic surgery (yes, I realize that doctors without borders help kids with harelips and more) and I am horrified. I look at the built-in hatred of the limbic system in the radical overmedicining of the less easy emotions - rather than, say, using our emotional pain as feedback about society, about individual lives and more. I notice how powerful and damaging cosmetics, hair, training industries are and dieting industries and products, and I sense a coming nightmare, where corporate manipulation of reptile brain fears will lead to gm dehumanizing humans. Highly skilled and powerful not really human creatures.

And the failures of the gm plant industries in a variety of levels, and their destructiveness, should be a warning that they do not know what they are doing as they claim. They have less control of traits than they claim. They have vastly less control of side effects than they claim. They don't care much. And they are happly to bully any government that is critical of their products and have used, with regularity anti-democratic means, even in their countries of origin. They do not believe in oversight and undermine it.

We are simply not wise enough or mature enough.

I would shocked if a number of governments, even Western ones also, and corporations and even a few rich people, are not already tinkering with our DNA. Shocked.

It is in precisely many of the ways we are not remotely perfect that I think makes gm-ing us is problematic.
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Re: good or bad idea? Genetics + Humanity.

Postby Dan~ » Tue Feb 18, 2020 3:43 pm

Karpel Tunnel wrote:At the risk of having one foot in the dummy camp, I don't like the idea of gm humans. Not because 'we cannot be improved'. But since we would be doing the 'improving', oh my gollygogs, I am skeptical.

You're not a dummy.
You're simply cautious.
It is obvious that things can be miss-used.

We have nukes, though.
Those are much more dangerous than gene upgrades.
Dummies should use their time reducing nuclear proliferation maybe.


We are simply not wise enough or mature enough.

But to bring maturity and wisdom up to the next level, the gene must be engineered.
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Re: good or bad idea? Genetics + Humanity.

Postby Karpel Tunnel » Tue Feb 18, 2020 4:04 pm

Dan~ wrote:But to bring maturity and wisdom up to the next level, the gene must be engineered.
To me that's like trying to overcome gravity by trying to lift yourself off the ground with your hands. We already have unbelievable flexible minds, to start. Just what committee, goverment, corporation are we going to trust to choose the right gene approaches?
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Re: good or bad idea? Genetics + Humanity.

Postby Dan~ » Tue Feb 18, 2020 4:10 pm

I think future super computers can make whole sets of genes.
The codes are not hidden or un-accessable.
Once humanity figures out what all the genes mean,
that will be it. A revolution will take place.
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Re: good or bad idea? Genetics + Humanity.

Postby Karpel Tunnel » Tue Feb 18, 2020 4:14 pm

Dan~ wrote:I think future super computers can make whole sets of genes.
The codes are not hidden or un-accessable.
Once humanity figures out what all the genes mean,
that will be it. A revolution will take place.
I suppose something in that area is going to happen. I just see us as having reached a point where our technologies are reducing us in significant ways, whereas for a long time there was a general enhancement. I don't think there is much organized love of humanity in those with the power to develop human gm and those who write heuristics for AIs. I don't think they get it. They are baby out with bathwater people. I suppose I am quite cynical regarding what current power aims for.

But I'll see what other people think in this thread.
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Re: good or bad idea? Genetics + Humanity.

Postby phyllo » Tue Feb 18, 2020 4:51 pm

We used to need God to save us.

Then God died.

Now we need AI to save us.

It's going to show us better morality and give us superior bodies.

All the things that God used to do.

:bow-blue:
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Re: good or bad idea? Genetics + Humanity.

Postby Dan~ » Tue Feb 18, 2020 4:57 pm

Humanity needs to use its humanity in order to save its humanity from humanity. :mrgreen:
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Re: good or bad idea? Genetics + Humanity.

Postby Tab » Tue Feb 18, 2020 7:14 pm

I'm all for it. Humanity desperately needs an upgrade.

Here's my wish list for doctor Mengele 2.0.

1) Research into the genetic predispositions or outright cause of pychopathy, and mandatory gm vaccination.
2) Increased intelligence.
3) Memory boost.
4) Altered metabolism toward casual vegetarianism and lowered sugar craving etc.
5) Improved capacity for empathy.
6) Fixes for congential defects - dwarfism, epilepsy, autism, downs syndrome, dyslexia etc.
7) Flattened stress response.
8) Extension of youthful hormonal output levels into old age or simply permanent.
9) Anti-cancer/heart-disease/dementia.
10) Improved immune system.

1 and 5 alone would change the world.

I'd cyborg the lot of us too. Add directly accessable archives to the brain. Education takes too long.
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Re: good or bad idea? Genetics + Humanity.

Postby Dan~ » Tue Feb 18, 2020 7:21 pm

https://www.cancerresearchuk.org/about-cancer/cancer-in-general/treatment/gene-therapy

There is a form of cancer treatment that is in the works right now: Gene-Therapy.
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Re: good or bad idea? Genetics + Humanity.

Postby Dan~ » Tue Feb 18, 2020 7:23 pm

Tab wrote:I'm all for it. Humanity desperately needs an upgrade.

We made a post about this long ago.
People gave lists of what upgrades they wanted.
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Re: good or bad idea? Genetics + Humanity.

Postby Tab » Tue Feb 18, 2020 7:32 pm

:D ofc. flying also.

To the question of 'good' or 'bad'.

Don't think it matters. We keep on as we are, we're all dead. Or left pogo-ing between states of primitivism and technologic revival, with the high points falling ever lower as resources are exhausted with each rise.

I think our main problem is we are neurophysiologically unable to maintain unified groups over a certain threshold, even with psychomotive props such as religion, nationalism whateverism etc.
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Re: good or bad idea? Genetics + Humanity.

Postby Karpel Tunnel » Wed Feb 19, 2020 9:17 am

phyllo wrote:We used to need God to save us.

Then God died.

Now we need AI to save us.

It's going to show us better morality and give us superior bodies.

All the things that God used to do.

:bow-blue:

I do think that the technocrats want to take on the role of God and or create God. Which is understandible. The problem is, this time we can be utterally sure that our biases will run this deity. So, these biases are going to eradicate our biases. I just don't think that'd going to happen. Take a biased guy, take the staple out of his hand and give him a nail gun. His biases are not going to be better, they are going to be vastly more effective. He can now get bits of metal into the woman three cubicles over.
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Re: good or bad idea? Genetics + Humanity.

Postby Karpel Tunnel » Wed Feb 19, 2020 10:01 am

Evolution takes millions of years. It's a long, real world, experiment. With a systems level check system in what are NOT modular organisms but living wholes. Then you get humans who like to think you can treat humans as modular and go shopping. I'll take one of those. I'm returning this. As if these single traits do not, then, in bodies, affect systems, in ways that, once the organism is released, may take generations to get a hint of what is changed. If you look at Tab's list, a few of the items have to do with personality. All sorts of baby and bathward and systems issues that are very hard to track arise when one tweaks the incredibly complicated neuro-endocrine system in humans. And the recipients of the tech will not realize all the differences, since they will have nothing to compare the range of their qualia with. There is so much hubris in this stuff, though, of course other noble things are present too.

Cane Toads and Tonsils should give us a little pause, as two examples. We ain't smart enough yet. And the ones with power to make these changes and who will then sell them to us, have a terrible history with short term gain priorities, lack of candor, own interests presented as general good, lack of systems caution and more.
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Re: good or bad idea? Genetics + Humanity.

Postby Tab » Wed Feb 19, 2020 5:07 pm

I agree Karpel, a multitude of horrible horrible mistakes will be made, monsters created, and immense suffering generated. I know genes act as a network, not linearly, which pushes the complexity up exponentially.

I just happen to think we have no choice.
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Re: good or bad idea? Genetics + Humanity.

Postby Karpel Tunnel » Wed Feb 19, 2020 6:34 pm

Tab wrote:I agree Karpel, a multitude of horrible horrible mistakes will be made, monsters created, and immense suffering generated. I know genes act as a network, not linearly, which pushes the complexity up exponentially.

I just happen to think we have no choice.
I think it would be better to continue to try to make transparent what power is doing with its power. I don't think human nature is so much the problem, but rather the nature of some and how this rises to the top. Otherwise those at the top will 'sell' the ideas of what should be changed and prioritized for their own purposes. And this is not going to solve human problems because I don't think they care about these. Less stress or is it more docile people? And given the centralization of media what will be 'sold' will be sold with the help of the best cognitive scientists so it seems obvious that these changes in our nature are the right ones, when in fact they are the ones that serve the puproses of the few. If we can't stop them from selling unnecessary wars, for example, this ability of theirs is not going to go away. Of course they will have to sell some skills and 'super' powers, to make these changes seem 'for us.'

But I certainly can't prove working on unraveling the lies and misuse of power will work, and I do appreciate your not simply denying my concerns. I really do.
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Re: good or bad idea? Genetics + Humanity.

Postby Tab » Wed Feb 19, 2020 8:08 pm

And this is not going to solve human problems because I don't think they [the super rich powermongers] care about these


They are also human though :D

Genetically, the difference between any 2 humans, irrespective of race, wealth, political affiliation etc. is 0.1%.

So nightmare scenario. The super-rich and their pals wait until genomic editing has been perfected on the spawn of lowly slobs who volunteered their unborn kids into the testing programs and then engineer their rich, probably whitish, privileged offspring into world dominating, almost immortal, supermen and women. Take over the world, wipe out the less fortunate, and spend eternity surrounded by robot butlers and mojitos.

For me, that's still a win. Because the human race survives. Good job super rich guys. You preserved 99.9% of my human genome, pity you saved it in the form of Archibald Jnr. McRichbastard, vice chairman of Reallybigcompany, but hey, wasn't like I was gonna do it myself.
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Re: good or bad idea? Genetics + Humanity.

Postby Meno_ » Wed Feb 19, 2020 8:19 pm

Not good! Because the super rich offspring will use diminished returned social contract to subsumed a hyper flexive moral imperative to view an ever expanding expanding field of competition, a de quantified, yet expanded field, wherein, the difference
between the two mindsets will become relatively much more unsettling.

Sure they are human , only human, to the degree they are not, (maybe cybernetic) : their autonomy suffering from pre existing programs.
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Re: good or bad idea? Genetics + Humanity.

Postby Tab » Wed Feb 19, 2020 8:51 pm

I literally read that and the Broca and Wernicke areas of my brain exploded into sparks like the old special effects in every 60s sci-fi film ever.

Plz translate plz.
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Re: good or bad idea? Genetics + Humanity.

Postby promethean75 » Wed Feb 19, 2020 9:03 pm

what he means is the comfabulatory nature of expeditious recursivity in all its bivalent injunctions does not, de facto, nullify market behavior throughout the entire matrix of quantum fractals in the non-zero sum exchanges that govern its distributive forces. therefore, eidetic reduction is not possible for predicting fashion trends in genetic engineering.
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Re: good or bad idea? Genetics + Humanity.

Postby Tab » Wed Feb 19, 2020 9:56 pm

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Re: good or bad idea? Genetics + Humanity.

Postby promethean75 » Wed Feb 19, 2020 10:03 pm

*nudge nudge*

tab?

TAB?!





oh shit
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