Shadow

The origins of the imperative, "know thyself", are lost in the sands of time, but the age-old examination of human consciousness continues here.

Re: Shadow

Postby MagsJ » Thu Mar 19, 2020 4:18 pm

Jakob wrote:I was looking for a gif of a circle being drawn to post but then didn't find a good one and posted without and then I looked at my signature lol.

:) When the shadow gives way to the light.. a reprieve.

Random happenings.. don’t you just love em. ; )
The possibility of anything we can imagine existing is endless and infinite.. - MagsJ

I haven't got the time to spend the time reading something that is telling me nothing, as I will never be able to get back that time, and I may need it for something at some point in time.. Wait, What! - MagsJ


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Re: Shadow

Postby Fixed Cross » Sun Apr 19, 2020 10:25 pm

we've got two shadows.

One, the shadow lurks. Second, the shadow conceals.

Active and, passive.

Like we've got the shadow of the sun and then, in the shadow of the earth, the shadow of the moon.

So three shadows.
The strong do what they can, the weak accept what they must.
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Re: Shadow

Postby Fixed Cross » Sun Jul 05, 2020 2:20 am

America's shadow is the Indians, their sorrowful, neglected presence.

"Reservations".... Christ.

Okay, so there is the pain the reservations about being an American qua Earth, if this is really as simple as it seems now, all you have to do is make these places central to our whole culture, force children to learn wigwam making from cow to storm-test n the first years of school - force them to learn the values of the true goods, the animals.

Actual paganism.
I can see a loooong time coming.

Yet here it is - the true reason for paganism is our relationship with animals. Which isn't there under Christendom.


Okey. So here is the mechanism as it works on da erf.

gods
humans
animals

Human: s/he who sacrifices animals to gods. Who stands in the cosmic order, between god and animal.



This went, from high to low

humans
humans
gods

(animals gone)


gods are sacrificed to humans by humans.
The strong do what they can, the weak accept what they must.
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Re: Shadow

Postby Fixed Cross » Sun Jul 05, 2020 3:29 am

Oof. Now I know how the shadow hides.
The destroyed people is seen as an actor in a children's game.
None of it was ever real.

Screen Shot 2020-07-05 at 4.27.36 AM.png
Screen Shot 2020-07-05 at 4.27.36 AM.png (67.23 KiB) Viewed 1300 times
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Re: Shadow

Postby felix dakat » Sat Jul 11, 2020 6:02 pm

Fixed Cross wrote:Oof. Now I know how the shadow hides.
The destroyed people is seen as an actor in a children's game.
None of it was ever real.

Screen Shot 2020-07-05 at 4.27.36 AM.png


A lot of our [the US's] founding vision came from Native America, even if the usual historical rendering ignores this. Euro-Americans lived side by side with Native Americans for a century and a half before the founding fathers ever began to consider creating the United States. They didn’t realize what would happen when the colonists got an up-close look at how the Iroquois Confederacy worked. The Iroquois societies, like other Native societies, were truly egalitarian. The founders came to call this “natural law.” This alternative way of living—so different from the class societies of Europe—planted the seed of revolution.

https://www.publishersweekly.com/pw/by- ... parry.html


And

It is during periods of devolution, such as now—when the psychological shadow of unresolved conflicts returns and triggers a national identity crisis—that there is an opportunity to make deep substantive changes. Devolution may even promote healing, for healing comes through awareness and transformation of shadow elements into a higher-level of integration.

Parry, Glenn Aparicio. Original Politics (p. 34). SelectBooks. Kindle Edition.
The purpose of my life would seem to be to express the truth as I discover it, but in such a manner that it is completely devoid of authority. By having no authority, by being seen by all as utterly unreliable, I express the truth and put everyone in a contradictory position where they can only save themselves by making the truth their own.
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Re: Shadow

Postby Fixed Cross » Mon Jul 13, 2020 2:39 pm

Excellent, Felix. Thanks for the quotes.

Whats really fascinating is how my focus on Native American Indians fell synchronous with a lot of action in favour of them - most notably, the restoration of their sovereignty in Eastern Oklahoma.
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Re: Shadow

Postby felix dakat » Tue Jul 14, 2020 11:44 pm

Fixed Cross wrote:Excellent, Felix. Thanks for the quotes.

Whats really fascinating is how my focus on Native American Indians fell synchronous with a lot of action in favour of them - most notably, the restoration of their sovereignty in Eastern Oklahoma.

Yes I see that. It's spells a victory for unitive consciousness.

Supreme Court Justice Neil Gorsuch wrote "at the end of the trail of tears was a promise".
The purpose of my life would seem to be to express the truth as I discover it, but in such a manner that it is completely devoid of authority. By having no authority, by being seen by all as utterly unreliable, I express the truth and put everyone in a contradictory position where they can only save themselves by making the truth their own.
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Re: Shadow

Postby felix dakat » Wed Jul 15, 2020 4:40 pm

After death on the cross Christ went into the underworld and became Hell. So he took on the form of the Antichrist, the dragon. The image of the Antichrist, which has come down to us from the ancients, announces the new God, whose coming the ancients had foreseen.

C. G. Jung. The Red Book: A Reader's Edition (Philemon) (Kindle Locations 3068-3070). W. W. Norton & Company. Kindle Edition.


Here the Shadow takes on theological significance according to the principle of enantiodromia "a thing psychically transmogrifies into its shadow opposite, in the repression of psychic forces that are thereby cathected into something powerful and threatening." This principle was explicitly understood and discussed in in Taoism and yin-yang and by Heraclitus. Yang becomes yin when it reaches its extreme, and vice versa.
The purpose of my life would seem to be to express the truth as I discover it, but in such a manner that it is completely devoid of authority. By having no authority, by being seen by all as utterly unreliable, I express the truth and put everyone in a contradictory position where they can only save themselves by making the truth their own.
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Re: Shadow

Postby Meno_ » Thu Jul 16, 2020 7:05 pm

felix dakat wrote:
After death on the cross Christ went into the underworld and became Hell. So he took on the form of the Antichrist, the dragon. The image of the Antichrist, which has come down to us from the ancients, announces the new God, whose coming the ancients had foreseen.

C. G. Jung. The Red Book: A Reader's Edition (Philemon) (Kindle Locations 3068-3070). W. W. Norton & Company. Kindle Edition.


Here the Shadow takes on theological significance according to the principle of enantiodromia "a thing psychically transmogrifies into its shadow opposite, in the repression of psychic forces that are thereby cathected into something powerful and threatening." This principle was explicitly understood and discussed in in Taoism and yin-yang and by Heraclitus. Yang becomes yin when it reaches its extreme, and vice versa.




And principally It's mobius model, I dare say.
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Re: Shadow

Postby felix dakat » Fri Jul 17, 2020 7:45 pm

Meno_ wrote:
felix dakat wrote:
After death on the cross Christ went into the underworld and became Hell. So he took on the form of the Antichrist, the dragon. The image of the Antichrist, which has come down to us from the ancients, announces the new God, whose coming the ancients had foreseen.

C. G. Jung. The Red Book: A Reader's Edition (Philemon) (Kindle Locations 3068-3070). W. W. Norton & Company. Kindle Edition.


Here the Shadow takes on theological significance according to the principle of enantiodromia "a thing psychically transmogrifies into its shadow opposite, in the repression of psychic forces that are thereby cathected into something powerful and threatening." This principle was explicitly understood and discussed in in Taoism and yin-yang and by Heraclitus. Yang becomes yin when it reaches its extreme, and vice versa.




And principally It's mobius model, I dare say.


The strip flips as does every finite thing.

Here Aion, the god of eternity, stands inside of a Mobius strip-like zodiac suggesting that the cosmos itself flips:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/M%C3%B6bi ... h_W504.jpg
The purpose of my life would seem to be to express the truth as I discover it, but in such a manner that it is completely devoid of authority. By having no authority, by being seen by all as utterly unreliable, I express the truth and put everyone in a contradictory position where they can only save themselves by making the truth their own.
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Re: Shadow

Postby felix dakat » Fri Jul 17, 2020 7:49 pm

Jung's notion of The Shadow corresponds with the guardian of the threshold " the spectral image which is supposed to manifest itself as soon as the student of the spirit ascends upon the path into the higher worlds of knowledge".

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Guardian_of_the_Threshold

"This Dweller of the Threshold meets us in many shapes. It is the Cerberus guarding the entrance to Hades; the Dragon which St. Michael (spiritual will-power) is going to kill; the Snake which tempted Eve, and whose head will be crushed by the heel of the woman; the Hobgoblin watching the place where the treasure is buried, etc. He is the king of evil, who will not permit that within his kingdom a child should grow up, which might surpass him in power; the Herod before whose wrath the divine child Christ has to flee into a foreign country, and is not permitted to return to his home (the soul) until the king (Ambition, Pride, Vanity, Self-righteousness, etc.) is dethroned or dead." Franz Hartmann, The Dweller of the Threshold, Reprinted from The Theosophist, Vol. XI 1889


The Shadow/Dweller of the Threshold has obvious Karmic associations as in, for example, the projected apparitions experienced on the Bardo plane in the Tibetan Book of the Dead.
The purpose of my life would seem to be to express the truth as I discover it, but in such a manner that it is completely devoid of authority. By having no authority, by being seen by all as utterly unreliable, I express the truth and put everyone in a contradictory position where they can only save themselves by making the truth their own.
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Re: Shadow

Postby Karpel Tunnel » Sat Jul 18, 2020 10:28 am

So Felix, Meno, FC
could you give some examples, say from the last week, where your ideas of the shadow
your individual shadows
Played out
in the context of your more abstract ideas about the shadow in general.

How do you work with the idea?
Was there a moment of integration?
an awareness of a problem related to your Shadow?

or the like?

Perhaps someone else's shadow as you percieve it in a concrete recent situation/dynamic/event from your personal lives?
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Re: Shadow

Postby Fixed Cross » Sat Jul 18, 2020 1:56 pm

What we know of our shadow is the most private and more relevant even perhaps, incomprehensible part of our mind.
It is a somewhat frustrating question, because one would like to answer it....
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Re: Shadow

Postby felix dakat » Sat Jul 18, 2020 8:19 pm

Karpel Tunnel wrote:So Felix, Meno, FC
could you give some examples, say from the last week, where your ideas of the shadow
your individual shadows
Played out
in the context of your more abstract ideas about the shadow in general.

How do you work with the idea?
Was there a moment of integration?
an awareness of a problem related to your Shadow?

or the like?

Perhaps someone else's shadow as you percieve it in a concrete recent situation/dynamic/event from your personal lives?


Of course this is a very difficult request since we don't like to look at or think about our shadow side let alone talk about it or disclose it to others.
Nevertheless the psyche appears to be dynamic. Every dimension of the personality has both a light and a shadow side. And if we allow the nature of the psyche to take its course we may find one side to transform into the other.
The purpose of my life would seem to be to express the truth as I discover it, but in such a manner that it is completely devoid of authority. By having no authority, by being seen by all as utterly unreliable, I express the truth and put everyone in a contradictory position where they can only save themselves by making the truth their own.
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Re: Shadow

Postby Karpel Tunnel » Sat Jul 18, 2020 8:50 pm

felix dakat wrote:Of course this is a very difficult request since we don't like to look at or think about our shadow side let alone talk about it or disclose it to others.
Nevertheless the psyche appears to be dynamic. Every dimension of the personality has both a light and a shadow side. And if we allow the nature of the psyche to take its course we may find one side to transform into the other.
Yes, it is a difficult request, but you guys have known about the shadow for a while, so presumably some part of it has come into your awareness and been integrated, otherwise it would be very sketchy to talk about the shadow at all. It would just be a very abstract discussion about something you have no experience of. My sense of you and FC is that you are the kind of people who do have that experience. Meno, God bless him, I have a hard time getting a sense of, but perhaps he too also has had concrete experience of his shadow and integration.

I can give an example for myself. I had been doing something inconsiderate, at the least, in relation to my partner. I had use Wifi quite a bit, which she does not like. It can give her headaches. I did this in secret. I was ashamed. I did it anyway. What is this?

Finally I investigated and realized I had a kind of anger that I had not gotten to do certain things I wanted and blamed her. There was some truth to this anger, but not noticing or accepting the anger and then dishonestly acting out in the way that I did was not cool.

I would call this Shadow because once I connected to this anger, I noticed it was big. REally big.

Now I am not Jungian, my approach is extremely expressive. So, I expressed that anger, by myself, in sound. I roared and raged, occasionally some outburst of words, but mainly just getting the anger expressed, accepted by me, integrated. Because I had so judged the anger, it got big and mean and heartless and cold, and without my being aware led me to be dishonest and disrespectful. Once I accepted the anger and expressed it, it because smaller and a part of me. Now those things I wanted to do I have openly made an issue, like a mature, honest person would. I realized that my judgments of my own need and wants led to a split and created shadow.

I have found much more violent and horrendous stuff in the Shadow and also worked with that. But that's a recent example.
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Re: Shadow

Postby Ecmandu » Sat Jul 18, 2020 9:16 pm

The shadow is no joke.

I’ve never laid a fucking finger on someone in my life.

Always thought I was a really good person.

I had TONS of emotional power! And I directed all of it to destroying existence forever!

Turns out, that can’t be done! But the fallout from that passion was MUCH worse than laying a finger on someone! I almost really fucked shit up massively!

The shadow side is no joke.
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Re: Shadow

Postby felix dakat » Sat Jul 18, 2020 9:29 pm

Karpel Tunnel wrote:
felix dakat wrote:Of course this is a very difficult request since we don't like to look at or think about our shadow side let alone talk about it or disclose it to others.
Nevertheless the psyche appears to be dynamic. Every dimension of the personality has both a light and a shadow side. And if we allow the nature of the psyche to take its course we may find one side to transform into the other.
Yes, it is a difficult request, but you guys have known about the shadow for a while, so presumably some part of it has come into your awareness and been integrated, otherwise it would be very sketchy to talk about the shadow at all. It would just be a very abstract discussion about something you have no experience of. My sense of you and FC is that you are the kind of people who do have that experience. Meno, God bless him, I have a hard time getting a sense of, but perhaps he too also has had concrete experience of his shadow and integration.

I can give an example for myself. I had been doing something inconsiderate, at the least, in relation to my partner. I had use Wifi quite a bit, which she does not like. It can give her headaches. I did this in secret. I was ashamed. I did it anyway. What is this?

Finally I investigated and realized I had a kind of anger that I had not gotten to do certain things I wanted and blamed her. There was some truth to this anger, but not noticing or accepting the anger and then dishonestly acting out in the way that I did was not cool.

I would call this Shadow because once I connected to this anger, I noticed it was big. REally big.

Now I am not Jungian, my approach is extremely expressive. So, I expressed that anger, by myself, in sound. I roared and raged, occasionally some outburst of words, but mainly just getting the anger expressed, accepted by me, integrated. Because I had so judged the anger, it got big and mean and heartless and cold, and without my being aware led me to be dishonest and disrespectful. Once I accepted the anger and expressed it, it because smaller and a part of me. Now those things I wanted to do I have openly made an issue, like a mature, honest person would. I realized that my judgments of my own need and wants led to a split and created shadow.

I have found much more violent and horrendous stuff in the Shadow and also worked with that. But that's a recent example.


Thank you for your illustrative self-disclosure. It shows that when we become aware of our shadow side we can choose to stop inflicting it on others.
The purpose of my life would seem to be to express the truth as I discover it, but in such a manner that it is completely devoid of authority. By having no authority, by being seen by all as utterly unreliable, I express the truth and put everyone in a contradictory position where they can only save themselves by making the truth their own.
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Re: Shadow

Postby Ecmandu » Sat Jul 18, 2020 9:38 pm

Felix,

Your reply to Karpel is true.

I would add this caveat! It’s almost impossible to know what the shadow is!!!

Now I spend lots of time saving the ‘darkest’ souls who think they are ‘light’. I’ve been there! Hopefully I can get through to them.

I know what it’s like to call upon all the good gods and suffer even worse than before. Eventually, everything becomes inverted ... you think good is bad and bad is good! In the spirit world I’m a very good PEER councilor.
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Re: Shadow

Postby felix dakat » Sat Jul 18, 2020 10:23 pm

Ecmandu wrote:Felix,

Your reply to Karpel is true.

I would add this caveat! It’s almost impossible to know what the shadow is!!!

Now I spend lots of time saving the ‘darkest’ souls who think they are ‘light’. I’ve been there! Hopefully I can get through to them.

I know what it’s like to call upon all the good gods and suffer even worse than before. Eventually, everything becomes inverted ... you think good is bad and bad is good! In the spirit world I’m a very good PEER councilor.


Right! Learn to love the flip!
The purpose of my life would seem to be to express the truth as I discover it, but in such a manner that it is completely devoid of authority. By having no authority, by being seen by all as utterly unreliable, I express the truth and put everyone in a contradictory position where they can only save themselves by making the truth their own.
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Re: Shadow

Postby Karpel Tunnel » Sat Jul 18, 2020 10:25 pm

felix dakat wrote:Thank you for your illustrative self-disclosure. It shows that when we become aware of our shadow side we can choose to stop inflicting it on others.
or start to 'inflict it'. Sometimes that's necessary also. sometimes we push healthy , just , appropriate responses into the pit.
Last edited by Karpel Tunnel on Sun Jul 19, 2020 7:35 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Shadow

Postby promethean75 » Sat Jul 18, 2020 10:42 pm

"And I directed all of it to destroying existence forever!

Turns out, that can’t be done!"

I have a question. At what point when you were doing whatever it is one does when one decides to begin destroying existence, did you suddenly stop and say 'shit, I dont think existence can be destroyed'?

Like what was it that happened that made you pretty much give up on destroying existence?

I ask because I have a couple friends who are also thinking about destroying existence, and the other day I wuz like 'you know I dont really think you should do that. That's like the most uncool thing you could ever do... destroy existence.'
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Re: Shadow

Postby Ecmandu » Sun Jul 19, 2020 1:40 am

That’s a great question promethean!

So, right now I’m drunk as fuck!

Here’s the deal. When you try to destroy every soul, the hell is really extreme....!let me explain this to you!

You bring all the souls to a dimension where they cannot Know anything but a space where they only feel pain but they don’t know why!

This hell sucks because you eventually lose all your memories and only suffer.

Shit! I’m too drunk to make this message!
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Re: Shadow

Postby Ecmandu » Sun Jul 19, 2020 3:57 pm

Ecmandu wrote:That’s a great question promethean!

So, right now I’m drunk as fuck!

Here’s the deal. When you try to destroy every soul, the hell is really extreme....!let me explain this to you!

You bring all the souls to a dimension where they cannot Know anything but a space where they only feel pain but they don’t know why!

This hell sucks because you eventually lose all your memories and only suffer.

Shit! I’m too drunk to make this message!


And now I’m more than sober! That small message took me 10 minutes to type because I couldn’t hit the fucking letters!

So here’s how it works when you try to destroy existence. You are a dark blob in infinitely dark space. You pulsate with pain/agony. And because there’s no stimulus forever, your memories eventually fade.

All you are (and all the people you took there) is just a dark blob that only feels pain / agony.

Actually, this hell doesn’t last forever... but that is the ‘destroying existence hell’

What ends up happening is that a spirit will eventually scoop up all those trillions of souls and start retraining them. Since it can’t detect your memories (because you now have none) it can’t resurrect you!

Tell your friends this!
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Re: Shadow

Postby Dan~ » Thu Jul 23, 2020 12:38 pm

"Filling the conscious mind with ideal conceptions is a characteristic of Western theosophy, but not the confrontation with the shadow and the world of darkness. One does not become enlightened by imagining figures of light, but by making the darkness conscious."


That reminds me of a meditation.
Close your eyes, and you see black, right?
Try to turn it into light and colors.
It's simple but, it can have good result.
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Re: Shadow

Postby Meno_ » Thu Jul 23, 2020 5:39 pm

"Filling the conscious mind with ideal conceptions is a characteristic of Western theosophy, but not the confrontation with the shadow and the world of darkness. One does not become enlightened by imagining figures of light, but by making the darkness conscious."

Conception and enlightenment are now separately induced , conceive light, literally, as it is sensed. How does conceiving that in figuratively, how it figures, how it firms images.

Brute light confronting the total absence of it, does not create a shadow world, the shadow world is already experienced as different.

The most basic difference between black and white support a the foundation of the most basic idea of the choice, either darkness or light.

One can chose without being conscious of it, one can choose to try to see light with eyes closed.


In fact if one decides to firgoe this basic choice in tempore , in the moment, the choice will become a power accelerator and increase the pressure on the will to choose, until one is obliged to choose.

A suspension of choice generating a field of no choice, can suspend that only until the force overcomes the will.

Then, the will becomes bounded into it's own inertia, with that happening, two simulations are generated:

One an implosion into a ring of fire, (configuration) and the other an explosion unto (reconfiguration)-disfiguration
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