Shadow

The origins of the imperative, "know thyself", are lost in the sands of time, but the age-old examination of human consciousness continues here.

Re: Shadow

Postby Karpel Tunnel » Tue Mar 03, 2020 7:34 am

felix dakat wrote:God always has with him the Devil.
And with some Gods, like say the OT deity, while the official Devil shows up now and then, the OT deity has some characteristics all on his own.
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Re: Shadow

Postby felix dakat » Tue Mar 03, 2020 5:19 pm

Karpel Tunnel wrote:
felix dakat wrote:God always has with him the Devil.
And with some Gods, like say the OT deity, while the official Devil shows up now and then, the OT deity has some characteristics all on his own.


And Christ must have his Antichrist.
The purpose of my life would seem to be to express the truth as I discover it, but in such a manner that it is completely devoid of authority. By having no authority, by being seen by all as utterly unreliable, I express the truth and put everyone in a contradictory position where they can only save themselves by making the truth their own.
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Re: Shadow

Postby Karpel Tunnel » Tue Mar 03, 2020 9:37 pm

felix dakat wrote:
Karpel Tunnel wrote:
felix dakat wrote:God always has with him the Devil.
And with some Gods, like say the OT deity, while the official Devil shows up now and then, the OT deity has some characteristics all on his own.


And Christ must have his Antichrist.
And since we just have the terrible, but somehow part of the plan, Judas, the shadow of the NT is very dark.
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Re: Shadow

Postby Artimas » Wed Mar 04, 2020 9:10 pm

Fixed Cross wrote:Let me lift one out to study.

"Taking it in its deepest sense, the shadow is the invisible saurian tail that man still drags behind him. Carefully amputated, it becomes the healing serpent of the mysteries. Only monkeys parade with it."

How does one amputate the shadow?
What does it mean to carefully amputate the shadow?

And what does it mean to parade with it?

Am I parading with my shadow when I talk down on people whom I think are being stupid?

Is rap music parading with the shadow, or is it rather the healing serpent?
Or both?

What precisely is the fucking shadow?
What is your shadow, if I may ask?



Amputating the shadow is when one understands their suppressed traumas, that they exist and what their triggers are, why this is an amputation? Because if one understands self and their own triggers, one can control shadow and let it out in a way of which is healthier for the self and no destructive, which the shadow generally is and can be destructive if not understood or left unchecked. I have done a lot of reading of Carl Jung and I have ideas similar to his and others that go farther from his ideas as well. Subconscious thread and all that. Can’t be a healing serpent if the shadow is not understood via that one has one and it’s functionality.

Even nothing, is something.
If one is to live balanced with expectations, then one must learn to appreciate the negative as well, to respect darkness in its own home.

All smoke fades, as do all delicate mirrors shatter.

"My ancestors are smiling on me, Imperials. Can you say the same?"

"Science Fiction today ~ Science Fact tomorrow"

Change is inevitable, it can only be delayed or sped up. Choose wisely.

Truth is pain, and pain is gain.


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Re: Shadow

Postby Jakob » Thu Mar 12, 2020 1:57 am

Karpel Tunnel wrote:And since we just have the terrible, but somehow part of the plan, Judas, the shadow of the NT is very dark.

Yes, quite some darker than the original lure of the snake.
it is interesting to draw this in that context.

The seduction ... into knowledge of good and evil. Judas got his share of it. A terrible scene in Mel Gibsons movie.
I mean terrible as in efficiently depicting Judas' acknowledgement of the power of his shadow.

I would contend that there is such a vast lack of shadow-delineation in terms of our conscious efforts, that the energies that motivate our shadows get intertwined and, probably as they lose agency, hooked into large energetic processes, such as computerization and sheer cosmic force. So, that is to say a hyuge collective shadow is moving at our collective feet, gut... more so than ever before and thus also not as easily stirred into war. Something else than war is brewing. War is passed - the ground is being prepared for philosophy.

The philosopher who has only merit as the medicine man, the magick man the medic of his culture, the tamer of the shadow of the world.
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Re: Shadow

Postby Jakob » Thu Mar 12, 2020 2:13 am

Artimas wrote:Amputating the shadow is when one understands their suppressed traumas, that they exist and what their triggers are, why this is an amputation? Because if one understands self and their own triggers, one can control shadow and let it out in a way of which is healthier for the self and no destructive, which the shadow generally is and can be destructive if not understood or left unchecked.

So, triggers - thats a word we haven't heard before. The shadow is triggered. Yes, I believe that's relevant.
The art of triggering as the devilish work.

I have done a lot of reading of Carl Jung and I have ideas similar to his and others that go farther from his ideas as well. Subconscious thread and all that. Can’t be a healing serpent if the shadow is not understood via that one has one and it’s functionality.

I must say its a solid point. When we investigate a Shadow, do we examine its meaning, or its technique?
Is not perhaps its true meaning in how it operates? Or if not meaning, simply the value of the knowledge to us.

How can we "self-value" ***the shadow, bring it into our terms? Not morally we cant - but what we may learn from it from how it smooths in the night, how it reaches for its means in stealth and employs them with utmost efficiency at issues which are demarcated with evolutionary precision, in this we may retrieve some of our soul which has been taken from us by those innumerable forces preying on any and all weakness in the world -
What I mean to say is - we can only reach for the snake if we are aware that we need to straighten out the snake so as for it to be a sword. Toughen it up, really too.
The shadow as a bird of prey.

Perhaps the shadow is elusive because it moves across our mind as fast as the shadow of a falcon.



*** logick --
that the occult value logic I created is most aptly called logick, I realized. Cool. No?
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Re: Shadow

Postby Jakob » Thu Mar 12, 2020 2:19 am

So like "red pilling" is in a sense a portion of humans integrating their shadow, by taking the means by which they were triggered, and triggering others for the sake of triggering. It is in a sense adolescence of the internet, of mankinds moral psyche as it is interconnected.

Then, most of it just becomes shadow and its executive slaves - that the shadow is engaged and known makes of us primarily demons, not yet... lucifers.
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Re: Shadow

Postby Jakob » Thu Mar 12, 2020 2:22 am

felix dakat wrote:
Karpel Tunnel wrote:
felix dakat wrote:God always has with him the Devil.
And with some Gods, like say the OT deity, while the official Devil shows up now and then, the OT deity has some characteristics all on his own.


And Christ must have his Antichrist.

Yes but the true antichrist is part of the soul of the Christ --

where Christ meets antiChrist we have the Lodge.

The Demiurge's crib.
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Re: Shadow

Postby felix dakat » Thu Mar 12, 2020 4:04 pm

Jakob wrote:
felix dakat wrote:And Christ must have his Antichrist.

Yes but the true antichrist is part of the soul of the Christ --

where Christ meets antiChrist we have the Lodge.

The Demiurge's crib.


Yeah. I get that Christ and the Antichrist imply each other from the standpoint of duality and that the Self because of its desire for wholeness seeks the conjunction of opposites. Such is the process of individuation. All of which dynamically enacts in time what is eternally true in the Pleroma-- the One.
The purpose of my life would seem to be to express the truth as I discover it, but in such a manner that it is completely devoid of authority. By having no authority, by being seen by all as utterly unreliable, I express the truth and put everyone in a contradictory position where they can only save themselves by making the truth their own.
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Re: Shadow

Postby Jakob » Sat Mar 14, 2020 4:01 am

For me it hasn't been clear that long. I never really went into the juxtaposition, because I figured the meaning of Christianity was in unity and trinity rather than in duality.
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Re: Shadow

Postby Meno_ » Sat Mar 14, 2020 9:23 am

Jakob wrote:For me it hasn't been clear that long. I never really went into the juxtaposition, because I figured the meaning of Christianity was in unity and trinity rather than in duality.



Actually that is right and not from a repositioning through transcending synthetic objective,except in cases of expediency, where Gnostic faith was still heretical

What underlies this, is really the idea that the Crist had two successive appearances to benefit mankind:

The first as the snake, who gave man conscious knowledge, Satan, and second: the Jesus who gave man an escape from the higher score problems of guilt over existential despair.

He delivered man from the guilt associated from an anomalie that pre existed between what has come to develop through the dasein/existential
distinction in terms of schematic temporal succession between the old, and the new testaments. That previous anomalies, in the late days of the Roman empire, created a crisis of the sort: between power and will: that came to be paralleled by the onslaught of19th century moral doubt, sourced from the tremendous power that the ancien regime conferred upon the new man of the enlightenment.

The contrast deriving from religious morality, derived primarily from the tremendous angst from loss of faith., which, ironically is being revised again by the current U.S. administration.
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Re: Shadow

Postby felix dakat » Sat Mar 14, 2020 1:56 pm

Jakob wrote:For me it hasn't been clear that long. I never really went into the juxtaposition, because I figured the meaning of Christianity was in unity and trinity rather than in duality.

The fact that both monist and dualist propositions are present in Christianity is itself a dualism. When discursive human thought attempts to transcend dualism it finds itself in paradox. The archetypes of the collective unconscious are all paradoxical. For example, The shadow itself, supposedly a negative thing, once recognized for what it is rather than repressed, generates a positive animal energy that makes a person more vibrant and alive.
The purpose of my life would seem to be to express the truth as I discover it, but in such a manner that it is completely devoid of authority. By having no authority, by being seen by all as utterly unreliable, I express the truth and put everyone in a contradictory position where they can only save themselves by making the truth their own.
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Re: Shadow

Postby Jakob » Sun Mar 15, 2020 11:35 pm

Meno_ wrote:
Jakob wrote:For me it hasn't been clear that long. I never really went into the juxtaposition, because I figured the meaning of Christianity was in unity and trinity rather than in duality.



Actually that is right and not from a repositioning through transcending synthetic objective,except in cases of expediency, where Gnostic faith was still heretical

What underlies this, is really the idea that the Crist had two successive appearances to benefit mankind:

The first as the snake, who gave man conscious knowledge, Satan, and second: the Jesus who gave man an escape from the higher score problems of guilt over existential despair.

Hmmmm.... Ive thought this over for a day and must say I cant really see the two as one. Christ is not a tempter. His story has its own temptation in it - I prefer KT's version with Judas as the one who meets the shadow and suffers the old-testament type consequences.
Its a matter of interpretation though.
I now remember from my gnostic days that there is also a gospel of Judas. I did read (in) it but it didn't do anything for me back then.

He delivered man from the guilt associated from an anomalie that pre existed between what has come to develop through the dasein/existential
distinction in terms of schematic temporal succession between the old, and the new testaments. That previous anomalies, in the late days of the Roman empire, created a crisis of the sort: between power and will: that came to be paralleled by the onslaught of19th century moral doubt, sourced from the tremendous power that the ancien regime conferred upon the new man of the enlightenment.

The contrast deriving from religious morality, derived primarily from the tremendous angst from loss of faith.,

And loss of faith is often the result of loss of self-respect.
Restoration of faith precedes the restoration of self-respect.

which, ironically is being revised again by the current U.S. administration.

No one had any faith at all in the US. It was a sick joke to us all. Now, half the world is in awe and the other half is in spasms.
Indeed something is happening here - what it is aint exactly clear.
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Re: Shadow

Postby Jakob » Sun Mar 15, 2020 11:39 pm

felix dakat wrote:
Jakob wrote:For me it hasn't been clear that long. I never really went into the juxtaposition, because I figured the meaning of Christianity was in unity and trinity rather than in duality.

The fact that both monist and dualist propositions are present in Christianity is itself a dualism. When discursive human thought attempts to transcend dualism it finds itself in paradox.

Indeed, but paradox means apparent contradiction.

Discursivity is dualist. But my idea of Christianity was that it attempts to surpass dualism by invigorating the ancient, arcane wisdom that 1=3.

In the end there is no contradiction. But the resolution is only in what the Kabbalists call the Crown, the emanating source which is drawn into conceptuality as the trinity of Crown, Wisdom and Understanding.

Duality proceeds from there as Mercy vs Severity.
These in the end are resolved in the Kingdom, to which is attributed a four-foldness, a 4=1.

The archetypes of the collective unconscious are all paradoxical. For example, The shadow itself, supposedly a negative thing, once recognized for what it is rather than repressed, generates a positive animal energy that makes a person more vibrant and alive.

Certainly.

What is the shadow of Christianity, though? Karpel gave Judas here - others would give us the Demiurge.
Im too fresh to this subject to yet have any answers.
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Re: Shadow

Postby felix dakat » Mon Mar 16, 2020 2:07 am

Jakob wrote:
felix dakat wrote:
Jakob wrote:For me it hasn't been clear that long. I never really went into the juxtaposition, because I figured the meaning of Christianity was in unity and trinity rather than in duality.

The fact that both monist and dualist propositions are present in Christianity is itself a dualism. When discursive human thought attempts to transcend dualism it finds itself in paradox.

Indeed, but paradox means apparent contradiction.

Discursivity is dualist. But my idea of Christianity was that it attempts to surpass dualism by invigorating the ancient, arcane wisdom that 1=3.

In the end there is no contradiction. But the resolution is only in what the Kabbalists call the Crown, the emanating source which is drawn into conceptuality as the trinity of Crown, Wisdom and Understanding.

Duality proceeds from there as Mercy vs Severity.
These in the end are resolved in the Kingdom, to which is attributed a four-foldness, a 4=1.

The archetypes of the collective unconscious are all paradoxical. For example, The shadow itself, supposedly a negative thing, once recognized for what it is rather than repressed, generates a positive animal energy that makes a person more vibrant and alive.

Certainly.

What is the shadow of Christianity, though? Karpel gave Judas here - others would give us the Demiurge.
Im too fresh to this subject to yet have any answers.

The shadow of Christianity was revealed when it became the official religion of the Roman empire and it became the antithesis of the teachings of Jesus and a tyrannical persecutor of free thought.
The purpose of my life would seem to be to express the truth as I discover it, but in such a manner that it is completely devoid of authority. By having no authority, by being seen by all as utterly unreliable, I express the truth and put everyone in a contradictory position where they can only save themselves by making the truth their own.
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Re: Shadow

Postby Jakob » Mon Mar 16, 2020 4:52 pm

That makes for a third potential shadow we have identified in Christianity.

Judas
Demiurge
Constantine

And this does not begin to address the whole idea about John the Baptists beheading and the Mary Magdalene "holy whore" piece of the puzzle.
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Re: Shadow

Postby Meno_ » Tue Mar 17, 2020 9:23 pm

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Re: Shadow

Postby Meno_ » Tue Mar 17, 2020 9:42 pm

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Re: Shadow

Postby felix dakat » Wed Mar 18, 2020 2:16 pm

Jakob wrote:That makes for a third potential shadow we have identified in Christianity.

    Judas
    Demiurge
    Constantine

And this does not begin to address the whole idea about John the Baptist's beheading and the Mary Magdalene "holy whore" piece of the puzzle.


Actually it wasn't Constantine who made Christianity the state religion. In 313, Constantine officially legalized Christian worship. In 380, Theodosius I, officially adopted Trinitarian Christianity as Rome's state religion.

Tell me more about John the Baptist and Mary Magdalene.
The purpose of my life would seem to be to express the truth as I discover it, but in such a manner that it is completely devoid of authority. By having no authority, by being seen by all as utterly unreliable, I express the truth and put everyone in a contradictory position where they can only save themselves by making the truth their own.
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Re: Shadow

Postby Jakob » Wed Mar 18, 2020 9:01 pm

Hmm.... well Constantine converted to Christianity himself, and made life for those that weren't Christian dangerous - emperor Julian, at great risk, turned Rome back the old religion for a a few years but was murdered on an Asian campaign (good book about him by Gore Vidal) and then the way was fully paved for Christianity.
Whatever the case precisely may have been, all of that was very shadowy, very dark.

Ok, the Baptist and Magdalene - a vast culture exists worshipping these two in sex magick.
Some say the Baptist is actually the real prophet. Some say Magdalene and Jesus ritually drank wine or blood from his severed head. He is connected to the figure of Bafomet, a gnostic Luciferic figure.

Of course, the shadow of the puritanistic Christianity is bound to be a sexual shadow. Magdalene, the "holy whore" is connected to what in todays occult cultures is called the "whore of Babalon" (not Babylon) and would function as the central axis of the shadow of the Christ. The Baptist is always somehow closely connected to her. Don't ask me the ins and outs - Ive spent years trying to find out. All I could find out is that there is power there, and quite a lot of it.
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Re: Shadow

Postby Jakob » Wed Mar 18, 2020 9:55 pm

Back to the Demiurge for a moment; this is, essentially, an ueberdeveloped concept of the Shadow avant la lettre.

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The creator of a dark world who tempts the strong human to overcome the baseness of this world and, through alchemy, become golden. The Demiurge was traditionally connected to Saturn.
Who, as it happens, is right now transitioning from Capricorn, his own sign, to Aquarius.

The last time this happened was in 1991, at the moment the Gulf War commenced.

I wrote a song about this guy a few years ago. Some of the lyrics go:

This is the doorway, the passage to the other side
the placating message, the intersection
the false inspection of events that never happened
the dweller on the threshold, Saturn.


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Re: Shadow

Postby Jakob » Wed Mar 18, 2020 10:41 pm

Some speculations about the Baptist and his esoteric meaning.

Much that is knowledge in both exoteric (public, free) and esoteric (for initiates, comes at costs of things such as allegiance) is simply reversed when it passes through the veil (exo/esoteric meaning outside/inside the Thuros, the curtain); so one might do this operation with the connection of John the Baptist and lord Jesus Christ. Exoterically the Baptist is merely Jesus' announcer. Esoterically, Jesus is his announcer.

In this scenario, we might speculate that the arrival of the Baptist could be what is announced as the Second Coming of Christ - and that this is the culmination of the whole of the preparatory Aeon of Pisces, which will be followed, or is now being succeeded by, the age of Aquarius, as in, the completion of a 12th of the cycle of the precession of the equinoxes.

Whatever the case - portions of Christian wisdom which have been repressed, or voluntarily hidden (or both) during the past two thousand years have been coming out into the open for about a century now - starting with the Order of the Golden Dawn and certain aspects of Theosophy, running throughout the hippie-age and coming of age in the publishing of the Royal Blood/Holy Grail theorem, which holds that the Holy Grail is the translation of a reading error; that the word is not San Graal but Sang Real, holy blood, blood of Jesus (and presumably, Magdalene).

That is the general gist - this narrative includes Masonry and all its works as preparatory for Revelation; another reversal; in Masonic Cathedrals (such as the Notre Dame de Paris) the good are inside and the gargoyles are masoned to the outside, snarling into the world. Reverse this, and one gets the soul who on the inside is tormented and on the outside brings enlightenment; or, the person who hides a dark heart behind a radiant countenance - mind you, Im not preaching, just mentioning a half-hidden thought-structure Ive disclosed for myself through research.

Always central is the figure of the tempter - but what is drastically different is his (or her) role: the function of the temptation and mans "proper" (evolutionarily advantageous) response to it.
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Re: Shadow

Postby felix dakat » Thu Mar 19, 2020 12:41 am

Jakob wrote:Some speculations about the Baptist and his esoteric meaning.

Much that is knowledge in both exoteric (public, free) and esoteric (for initiates, comes at costs of things such as allegiance) is simply reversed when it passes through the veil (exo/esoteric meaning outside/inside the Thuros, the curtain); so one might do this operation with the connection of John the Baptist and lord Jesus Christ. Exoterically the Baptist is merely Jesus' announcer. Esoterically, Jesus is his announcer.

In this scenario, we might speculate that the arrival of the Baptist could be what is announced as the Second Coming of Christ - and that this is the culmination of the whole of the preparatory Aeon of Pisces, which will be followed, or is now being succeeded by, the age of Aquarius, as in, the completion of a 12th of the cycle of the precession of the equinoxes.

Whatever the case - portions of Christian wisdom which have been repressed, or voluntarily hidden (or both) during the past two thousand years have been coming out into the open for about a century now - starting with the Order of the Golden Dawn and certain aspects of Theosophy, running throughout the hippie-age and coming of age in the publishing of the Royal Blood/Holy Grail theorem, which holds that the Holy Grail is the translation of a reading error; that the word is not San Graal but Sang Real, holy blood, blood of Jesus (and presumably, Magdalene).

That is the general gist - this narrative includes Masonry and all its works as preparatory for Revelation; another reversal; in Masonic Cathedrals (such as the Notre Dame de Paris) the good are inside and the gargoyles are masoned to the outside, snarling into the world. Reverse this, and one gets the soul who on the inside is tormented and on the outside brings enlightenment; or, the person who hides a dark heart behind a radiant countenance - mind you, Im not preaching, just mentioning a half-hidden thought-structure Ive disclosed for myself through research.

Always central is the figure of the tempter - but what is drastically different is his (or her) role: the function of the temptation and mans "proper" (evolutionarily advantageous) response to it.


Hey bro, thanks. Looks like a lifetime of material there to explore. And yet there's more. For example, check this out:

Before Jung’s work was about the Shadow and the Self, it was about Salome: the young, sensual Jewish woman, the dancer, who requested the head of John the Baptist from the transfixed King Herod. Jung met this disheveled, discarded woman in the depths of his own psyche and withdrew in horror. “Let me be,” he tells her when they first meet, “I dread you, you beast.” But, Jung had embarked on this journey in order to pay attention to what arose. So over many nights of his descent into the unconscious (and his many years of exploring these early visions), Jung came to acknowledge Salome’s divine power. He experienced Her divinity within his own body, not as he had once understood the divine feminine in Mother Mary, but as Kali, the dark goddess of Hindu mythology. He wrote: this “many armed bloody Goddess—it is Salome desperately wringing her hands,” and in the face of his fear, he strained to witness her presence and power. She transforms as he does, and finally, Jung came to love her: “[she] takes hold of me, she is my own soul”. He discovered that She is him. She is that which brings him life and joy, the capacity to feel, to create art, to deeply connect, and to trust. But she had not come to him at first in the form of someone safe or beautiful; she did not descend from on high in golden light. http://www.portlandjung.com/seminars/20 ... patriarchy
The purpose of my life would seem to be to express the truth as I discover it, but in such a manner that it is completely devoid of authority. By having no authority, by being seen by all as utterly unreliable, I express the truth and put everyone in a contradictory position where they can only save themselves by making the truth their own.
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Re: Shadow

Postby Jakob » Thu Mar 19, 2020 1:10 am

Dude, that is awesome.
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Re: Shadow

Postby Jakob » Thu Mar 19, 2020 1:13 am

I was looking for a gif of a circle being drawn to post but then didn't find a good one and posted without and then I looked at my signature lol.
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